The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

[BaleISBatman4ev]

Originally Posted by mjbull23

A lot of people seem to take issue with Bane being portrayed as physically superior and as a more skilled fighter than the older, physically worn down Batman that we got in this film, but honestly, I was fine with it. I think it only served to strengthen part of Nolan's message.

Batman's career is very finite, and inspite of all his prowess, he could only remain being Batman for approximately as long as any Pro athletes career would span, before the physical toll becomes too much. The body has it's limits...

Woah your actually talking about the movie... Awesome!

It's getting weird in here!

Anyway... Yes I love that batman has to overcome the limitations of his physical body... It's his greatest lesson in the prison "my body makes the jump not my soul"... It's that lesson he takes back to Gotham to take on Bane again. Very strong theme in the movie!

[Reikowolf]

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

Woah your actually talking about the movie... Awesome!

It's getting weird in here!

Anyway... Yes I love that batman has to overcome the limitations of his physical body... It's his greatest lesson in the prison "my body makes the jump not my soul"... It's that lesson he takes back to Gotham to take on Bane again. Very strong theme in the movie!

"the training is nothing, the will is everything"

I very much like the commentary made in the movie regarding the longevity of Batman. He was never invincible (which is on par for the course for super heroes most of the time) and that eventually his mission would take its toll on him.

[BaleISBatman4ev]

Originally Posted by Reikowolf

"the training is nothing, the will is everything"

I very much like the commentary made in the movie regarding the longevity of Batman. He was never invincible (which is on par for the course for super heroes most of the time) and that eventually his mission would take its toll on him.

Yeah watching TDK again it's amazing how many themes come full circle. "batman has no limits" - "Well You do sir"

Also on a side note I found it interesting when the mayor and Gordon are talking in His office in TDK and the mayor asks "how long can we keep this quiet" - that line has so much more weight now... 8 years to be exact.

I also love Gordon's progression in each movie. He always learns from the previous movie's villain. In TDK he gets the inmates out of the prison and into the boat so they aren't released be joker, a lesson he learned from Begins... In TDKR he knows the trigger man isn't a random citizen... Lesson learned from TDK.. The evolution of the characters and themes in this trilogy is second to none IMO.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

Yeah watching TDK again it's amazing how many themes come full circle. "batman has no limits" - "Well You do sir"

Also on a side note I found it interesting when the mayor and Gordon are talking in His office in TDK and the mayor asks "how long can we keep this quiet" - that line has so much more weight now... 8 years to be exact.

I also love Gordon's progression in each movie. He always learns from the previous movie's villain. In TDK he gets the inmates out of the prison and into the boat so they aren't released be joker, a lesson he learned from Begins... In TDKR he knows the trigger man isn't a random citizen... Lesson learned from TDK.. The evolution of the characters and themes in this trilogy is second to none IMO.

That's a great point about the scene the mayor and Gordon in TDK. Didn't even think of that (though I have yet to watch TDK after seeing TDKR).

It brings me to another thing I was wondering about. Does anybody think there's a chance that the mayor was in on the coverup? I only ask this because he seemed very jittery when he was giving his Harvey Dent Day speech, as if he knew he wasn't telling the truth.

Could just be a quirk in the performance, but it was something I was pondering. I highly doubt that's the case but just wondering if anyone got the same vibe.

EDIT: On second thought, he was probably jittery knowing that he was planning to fire Gordon soon.

[deadshot daquir]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Now, you get it.

Keeping an open mind helps, consider this to be an elseworlds take on Batman. In fact, All movies made on comics based superheroes are else world takes on the characters, they follow the directors (and writes) vision of the super hero.

TDKR is more emotional and has better performances by Bale, Caine, Oldman and Hathaway.

BTW, welcome to hype.

i agree, ..... i think the "rises" part pertains to each characters tale of redemption or reinventing themselves

bruce finding a new cause to come out of the shadows

bane establishing himself as a criminal mastermind taking up the mantle of the LOS

selina doing bad to find a way to be better ... like an ends to the means ... stealing for survival and to get "clean slate"

[JerseyJoker]

http://thejerseycritic.wordpress.com...-knight-rises/

My review of the film, really loved it, but seriously think it was a bit longer than it needed to be, with a few plot wholes that just stuck out to me.

[CConn]

Your complaints are either overly minuscule or incorrectly formulated.

[Greens]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

That's a great point about the scene the mayor and Gordon in TDK. Didn't even think of that (though I have yet to watch TDK after seeing TDKR).

It brings me to another thing I was wondering about. Does anybody think there's a chance that the mayor was in on the coverup? I only ask this because he seemed very jittery when he was giving his Harvey Dent Day speech, as if he knew he wasn't telling the truth.

Could just be a quirk in the performance, but it was something I was pondering. I highly doubt that's the case but just wondering if anyone got the same vibe.

EDIT: On second thought, he was probably jittery knowing that he was planning to fire Gordon soon.

One thing about the mayor that caught my eye was how he nervously peeks at Bane's location when the national anthem is going on. I know it doesn't mean anything but I notice it every time.

[CConn]

Honesty, the major always seemed jittery to me. Even in TDK. I think he was just playing the old "spineless politicitian" role.

[deadshot daquir]

Originally Posted by the_monk

I believe it's to give authorities the impression that the corpse they brought in the plane was Pavel's.

true, but don't they also use dental records to confirm the identity ?

lol

[The_Fire_Rises]

Originally Posted by CConn

Your complaints are either overly minuscule or incorrectly formulated.

Also, not to sound like a dick, but proof reading is everyone's friend.

[Brawl]

Ok finally saw the movie.

I felt the story was pretty good. The main issue I had with the movie is it really didn't need Batman. I mean you could have made the same movie and inserted Jack Bauer or Jason Bourne and it would have been just as good. Batman was in the movie all of what maybe 15 mins of the movie. Avengers proved you can make a good CB movie where the hero is in costume for a good amount of the time. Cain was golden as ever as was Oldham. Bain as the main protagonist was a bit weak. I don't know if it was the weirdly robotic sean connery sounding voice coming from a dude that looked like he just stepped off the latest jean claude van damme movie or the fact that I just couldn't connect. Catwoman was OK. The issue with her was her ability to pilot all of batman vehicles like she was riding them for the last four years. The ending was also a bit weird

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

where a world renown billionaire that just lost all his money died and now is have lunch in a European cafe where the paparazzi rule.

I thought all the cinematography was excellent though. The hole, the football stadium, the city scenes all were amazing. Bat-jet or whatever was pretty cool as well. I can't remember but did Batman have that same velour cape he had in this last movie in the previous ones? Last issue was the time it was a looong movie but I understand Nolan was trying to wrap everything up.

I give the movie a solid 7/10

[Cosmic]

I still don't understand why Bruce became a total recluse for 8 years. Even if he felt that he could no longer physically carry on as Batman...I don't get why he chose to ignore the outside world for so long. If the reason is depression over losing Rachel and Harvey, then well, I think that's not Batman. It's something else. Batman doesn't give up. Not for 8 years!

By the way, the most common complaint by "civilians" I speak to about this movie is that it was too long and drawn out. I feel that this is valid, and I really question the introduction of John Blake. It took a huge amount of time to feature and develop him, and for what? To set up and tease us with a character we'll never see? WTF? It didn't work. WTF were you ****ing thinking? Unbelievable.

I didn't like the fact that Nolan's Batman had such a short career. People who've defended this point claim that it has to do with realism. Look at the stuff that's going on in this movie. It's not real life. It's Batman! I wanted to see Batman continue the fight from the shadows...with the police hunting him and needing his help at the same time. That was what had us excited at the end of TDK. NOT the prospect of him retiring to one wing of his mansion for nearly a decade while his enemies keep working to destroy him and his city! This approach taken in TDKR really disappointed me. It felt like they sort of went astray from what makes the character great.

The movie completed the trilogy, but the movie itself is incomplete. Despite some exciting action and interesting story elements, this movie fails the characters and falls short of the bar set by Begins and raised by TDK. Not recommended. Rated 5/10.

[Brita21]

Did anyone else keep glancing at the emergency exit when they watched it after what happened in Colorado? I knew the chances were really low but I still felt a little uneasy

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Brita21

Did anyone else keep glancing at the emergency exit when they watched it after what happened in Colorado? I knew the chances were really low but I still felt a little uneasy

I love your water.

[mjbull23]

Originally Posted by Cosmic

I still don't understand why Bruce became a total recluse for 8 years. Even if he felt that he could no longer physically carry on as Batman...I don't get why he chose to ignore the outside world for so long. If the reason is depression over losing Rachel and Harvey, then well, I think that's not Batman. It's something else. Batman doesn't give up. Not for 8 years!

By the way, the most common complaint by "civilians" I speak to about this movie is that it was too long and drawn out. I feel that this is valid, and I really question the introduction of John Blake. It took a huge amount of time to feature and develop him, and for what? To set up and tease us with a character we'll never see? WTF? It didn't work. WTF were you ****ing thinking? Unbelievable.

I didn't like the fact that Nolan's Batman had such a short career. People who've defended this point claim that it has to do with realism. Look at the stuff that's going on in this movie. It's not real life. It's Batman! I wanted to see Batman continue the fight from the shadows...with the police hunting him and needing his help at the same time. That was what had us excited at the end of TDK. NOT the prospect of him retiring to one wing of his mansion for nearly a decade while his enemies keep working to destroy him and his city! This approach taken in TDKR really disappointed me. It felt like they sort of went astray from what makes the character great.

The movie completed the trilogy, but the movie itself is incomplete. Despite some exciting action and interesting story elements, this movie fails the characters and falls short of the bar set by Begins and raised by TDK. Not recommended. Rated 5/10.

His 8 year hiatus wasn't necessary. To have shown him ocassionally stepping out and fighting petty criminals during those years would have been more consistent with his character.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by mjbull23

His 8 year hiatus wasn't necessary. To have shown him ocassionally stepping out and fighting petty criminals during those years would have been more consistent with his character.

I think the year 8 year exile works just fine, IMO. I could see if Bruce had actually moved on with his life and left Batman behind completely. But that was far from the case. Bruce may have not been out there fighting crime, because the Dent act roadblocked him, but he was still in Batman mode mentally and had all his weaponry and the batcave ready just in case he had to get back out there.

[Frodo]

I can see several reasons why Nolan decided to go the 8 year absense route but I actually think it would have worked if he had picked up only few years after TDK and had shown that Bruce had basically become Batman full time and had gotten "lost inside the monster" and was running himself down because he felt he had nothing left to live for.

That possibilty falls more in line with the ending of TDK , and That gives Alfred a much stronger motivation for

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

wanting to leave and have a "tough love, time to move on" position then walking away the minute he suits up again.

It also explains why his health would be in such a bad postion. However, if you want

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

the whole Dent Lie to work, Daggat giving resources to Bane, Talia working her way in etc, the 8 year route is needed.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Frodo

I can see several reasons why Nolan decided to go the 8 year absense route but I actually think it would have worked if he had picked up only few years after TDK and had shown that Bruce had basically become Batman full time and had gotten "lost inside the monster" and was running himself down because he felt he had nothing left to live for.

That possibilty falls more in line with the ending of TDK , and That gives Alfred a much stronger motivation for

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

wanting to leave and have a "tough love, time to move on" position then walking away the minute he suits up again.

It also explains why his health would be in such a bad postion. However, if you want

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

the whole Dent Lie to work, Daggat giving resources to Bane, Talia working her way in etc, the 8 year route is needed.

I first wanted the whole Bruce losing himself in Batman/running down his health angle, but when I heard about the 8 year exile, I thought it was a bold move by Nolan. When I finally saw the film; how Bruce did rebuild the cave and was practically sitting around waiting for things to go wrong, I was very pleased with that. It was cool to see a reclusive Bruce who couldn't even deal with keeping up appearances as the "playboy" Bruce anymore.

I can understand people wanting Bruce to still be physically active as Batman and not just mentally, but some have reacted as if Bruce quit and moved on with his life. The forced retirement angle is a lot more poignant, because when Rachel died, all Bruce had was gone except Batman. And with Dent dying a monster all he had with being Batman was ultimately ripped away from him because of his sacrifice. So for 8 years he's just there, wandering around Wayne Manor with this inner turmoil and boiling rage, for which he would usually use his Batman persona to purge his demons.

[VenomShock]

Also important to note: He was retired for 8 years, he was only reclusive for 3. It was after he shut down his energy project due to Pavel's papers that he became a shut-in.

Also: In my mind "Rise" refers specifically to Bruce's journey in the cave. How he goes from a man wanting death because of his percieved only chance for a normal life beyond Batman.(Damn it, Bruce! Rachel told you not to let her be your only chance for a normal life!) He welcomes death, wants to die for his city, but then, in response to Bane's torture of the soul, he rises above his desire for death and decides that he has to save his city.

That's why, although some people think it's lame, that dialogue between Batman and Bane makes total sense.

"So, you came back to die with your city!"
"No. I came back to stop you!"

It's no longer about being a martyr, it's about being a hero.

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

[Cosmic]

I never said that "Nolan's interpretation of Batman is not Batman." I'm willing to accept different interpretations of Batman. I was one of the biggest skeptics before Begins came out, but when I saw it, I loved it. BB and TDK are two of my all-time favorite movies. Nolan did good work with Batman, up to this point. TDKR broke from the spirit of those movies, which were mostly true to the spirit of the character. Try reading my post again, but more carefully this time.

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

[CristiMAN]

I dont see as he quit. The fall in TDK with him assuming dent's murders made it possible for the 8 years of peace. The film made this crystal clear.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I first wanted the whole Bruce losing himself in Batman/running down his health angle, but when I heard about the 8 year exile, I thought it was a bold move by Nolan. When I finally saw the film; how Bruce did rebuild the cave and was practically sitting around waiting for things to go wrong, I was very pleased with that. It was cool to see a reclusive Bruce who couldn't even deal with keeping up appearances as the "playboy" Bruce anymore.

I can understand people wanting Bruce to still be physically active as Batman and not just mentally, but some have reacted as if Bruce quit and moved on with his life. The forced retirement angle is a lot more poignant, because when Rachel died, all Bruce had was gone except Batman. And with Dent dying a monster all he had with being Batman was ultimately ripped away from him because of his sacrifice. So for 8 years he's just there, wandering around Wayne Manor with this inner turmoil and boiling rage, for which he would usually use his Batman persona to purge his demons.

Good points , but its still kindy iffy for me, because Alfred waited all that time to have an intervention and then left the minute he suits up again. It just seemed forced.