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Old 08-30-2012, 09:19 AM   #151
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:22 AM   #152
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I don't accept the notion that Batman was only ever concerned about organised crime. His parents were killed by a desperate Joe Chill, not the Mafia, and The Joker can hardly be described as running an organised crime syndicate.

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Old 08-30-2012, 09:45 AM   #153
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:54 AM   #154
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

You put that very convincingly; at the same time, I find it hard to imagine any incarnation of Batman being indifferent to women being raped, children being abused, or serial killers going uncaught.

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Old 08-30-2012, 09:57 AM   #155
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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As for the Joker, like I said, he was far too flamboyant for Batman to pass on him. But notice how at the beginning of TDK Batman would rather go after the mob than him.
Actually he was measuring them by threat level. "One man or the entire mob...he can wait". He fully intended to go after Joker eventually. Heck he said he was going to look into Joker's antics at the end of Begins when Gordon presented him with the Joker card, and all he had done at that point was an armed robbery and a couple of homicides.

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Old 08-30-2012, 09:57 AM   #156
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:38 AM   #157
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Am I the only one not really bothered by the so called "plot holes".

The way I saw it, Bruce abandoning the rope was him abandoning reality, allowing him to do slightly more fantastical feats, such as escape the prison. (Seeing how it's a more-so mental escape, not physical.)

I liked how after he escaped the pit he became the Batman fans know. The one who can run across the world in hours, survive an explosion, and
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
sneak back into Gotham
......because he's BATMAN!

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Old 08-31-2012, 12:46 AM   #158
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Am I the only one not really bothered by the so called "plot holes".

The way I saw it, Bruce abandoning the rope was him abandoning reality, allowing him to do slightly more fantastical feats, such as escape the prison. (Seeing how it's a more-so mental escape, not physical.)

I liked how after he escaped the pit he became the Batman fans know. The one who can run across the world in hours, survive an explosion, and
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
sneak back into Gotham
......because he's BATMAN!
The plot holes aren't even the main concern for the film. For me, it's what could have been added to some scenes had it been a 3 hour epic.

I'll gladly take Bruce just showing up in Gotham after being held captive for more fleshed out scenes which could add to the overarching themes.

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Old 08-31-2012, 12:56 AM   #159
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Ya I would have liked the themes given more attention. I think the edditing of the film wasn't that good. Way too much taken out, (like Bane's origin).

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Old 08-31-2012, 01:07 AM   #160
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Ya I would have liked the themes given more attention. I think the edditing of the film wasn't that good. Way too much taken out, (like Bane's origin).
I'm still not sold on if Bane's origin should have been shown. Especially if it were to have been originally placed during Talia's reveal.

My main qualm right now lies with Bane's reign of terror. I loved what Nolan was going for, but their had to have been more stuff during his siege. The whole montage during his speech at Blackgate was an awesome setup to just how chaotic Bane's dictator-like reign over Gotham were to be. But it didn't dig further than that.

How long was Nolan's first cut that he showed WB execs? Was that the one with the reported third act that made them uncomfortable?

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Old 08-31-2012, 01:11 AM   #161
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Supposively the original script was 400 pages, but that's probably just a stupid rumor.

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Old 08-31-2012, 01:22 AM   #162
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Finally i have seen the movie on imax for the first time, didnt have the chance to see it earlier / until now due to other commitments.

Thanks to you guys and your hating on this epic movie, i wasnt expecting much when i first came into the theatre and i thought i will like it less than the mediocre Dark Knight movie (in my opinion), and boy i was in for a ride.

This movie is easily the best movie ever made and i am not just talking about best comic book adaptation movie here.

It bests the god father 1, 2, 3 and 4 if there will be any. It's much better than the 9.2 imdb rated Shawshank redemption movie. It's the best movie ever made, full stop. Nolan outdid himself this time. TDKR deserves the best picture oscar and best director as well.
I agree it was really good but best movie ever made? I don't know about that.

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Old 08-31-2012, 03:17 AM   #163
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I guess that's fair. Not nearly as bad as some 10 year olds I've seen claim "Soul Surfer" is among the best movies ever made.

I've seen many greater movies. But Dark Knight Rises is for sure one of my favourite films now, it's a movie I never thought I'd get. I don't mean that as a comic-book fan, I mean that as a film fan. Mainstream cinema is pretty much dead right now, but I'm happy to see that through it all a film shone out that celebrates the old days, innovates, and manages to be a rather important film (like Superman: the movie).

I don't care if the Academy recognizes it, they're full of crap anyway. I am sublimely sated by the fact that the movie merely exists and that I can watch it whenever I want.

"Best Movie Ever Made" is really subjective, as it depends on your criteria. To me, the best film ever made remains William Friedkin's "The Exorcist" because that film has had the most intense emotional impact on me as well as a large majority of its viewers. My criteria here is emotional and psychological thought provokation, which I think no other film holds a candle to. This movie screwed me up for years, and I know I'm not alone.

There are plenty of other criteria, though. All depends on how you view film as an art form. Do you watch it to be taken on a ride? Or do you watch it and think of it as a technical achievement? Nolan's films for sure fall under this debate, as Nolan is a great storyteller, but isn't the greatest when it comes to the technical stuff. His films can be thought provoking, but I think it's missing the point to go severely in depth with them. You're supposed to take in the message as its shown, as well as be engaged by the story at hand.

Films by Kubrick, Coppola, Sergio Leone amongst a long list are also competetors for directors having made the "best movie ever made".

I mean, don't get me wrong, I still think this poster is a kid, and a kid that's merely geeking out about a movie they just saw and really liked, but hey, I can say it's probably the most engaging movie I've seen in theatres, and on that note I guess some could consider it the greatest.... I guess....

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Old 08-31-2012, 03:34 AM   #164
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Supposively the original script was 400 pages, but that's probably just a stupid rumor.
Chris Nolan said it himself that his brother's first draft was like 400 pages. And Wally Pfister said in January 2011 that Chris was still cutting it back because the script was still long at that stage.

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When Jonah showed me his first draft of his screenplay, it was 400 pages long or something. It had all this crazy stuff in it. As part of a primer when he handed it to me, he said, 'You've got to think of 'A Tale of Two Cities' which, of course, you've read.' I said, 'Absolutely.' I read the script and was a little baffled by a few things and realized that I'd never read 'A Tale of Two Cities'. It was just one of those things that I thought I had done. Then I got it, read it and absolutely loved it and got completely what he was talking about... When I did my draft on the script, it was all about 'A Tale of Two Cities'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Pfister
I read the script 2 weeks ago, and heís done it. Plain and simple ó heís done it. Itís a phenomenal script. Heís still in the process of cutting it back because itís a very long script right now, but itís really phenomenal. And he actually had me go back and wanted me to watch, in IMAX, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight again. When I watched those I had read the script for The Dark Knight Rises and was like, Ďdude, it is a perfect trilogy.í I think that was his intent, to work off those two pictures ó and they are very different pictures. And itís funny, we all had different opinions about which picture we like better.

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Old 08-31-2012, 12:04 PM   #165
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Im somewhere in the middle as far as my opinion of TDKR goes. While I don't think its overrated and flawed beyond repair, I don't think that its the greatest film ever made or a masterpiece either. I think the term "solid" applies best. It's a solid film and a worthy conclusion. At the same time I don't think its the best of the trilogy. Its has some of the best moments of the Nolan saga , but also has alot of stuff I consider weak and lame.

It has characters that could have been done without, yet it has some great ideas and performances. It's probably Bale's best performance but not my favorite performance as Batman. Even when it reaches and misses the mark, I like the fact that Nolan is attempting to convey certain ideas and concepts.

While it can be a overly depressing at times , and could have done with a bit more levity, the action set pieces are great. So for me the film is a mixed bag. I think I like it more as time goes on though . Its in my top 10 of best superhero flicks but not my top 5 . Those are TDK, Superman the movie, Spiderman 2, Avengers, and Batman Begins.

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Old 08-31-2012, 12:07 PM   #166
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Chris Nolan said it himself that his brother's first draft was like 400 pages. And Wally Pfister said in January 2011 that Chris was still cutting it back because the script was still long at that stage.


I would have taken a 400 minute movie over what we got. I wouldn't care if it was that long.

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Old 08-31-2012, 12:23 PM   #167
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I don't think I could watch seven hours of anything, other than the backs of my eyelids.

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Old 08-31-2012, 08:54 PM   #168
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The way I saw it, Bruce abandoning the rope was him abandoning reality, allowing him to do slightly more fantastical feats, such as escape the prison. (Seeing how it's a more-so mental escape, not physical.)
No, he just had to overcome the fear that he didn't have...so fear that he already had could find him because he wasn't afraid of his fear that he already feared.

The rope literally holds them back. It goes taut, and doesn't allow enough slack to reach the ledge when they jump. That's kind of the whole reason we see the first prisoner make the climb. It's subtle, but its there.

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Old 08-31-2012, 09:03 PM   #169
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No, he just had to overcome the fear that he didn't have...so fear that he already had could find him because he wasn't afraid of his fear that he already feared.
To me that just makes no sense. :/

He needed fear for what purpose? Making the jump wasn't about fear.

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Old 08-31-2012, 09:23 PM   #170
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Actually it was.

Bruce wanted to die up till now. Contrary to her wishes, he HAD made Rachel Dawes his last chance for a normal life. So because of her death and his unwillingness to move on, he gladly sought out death. As Alfred notes several times and even Bane notes "You don't fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe".

The conversation that Bruce has with the prison doctor before his final attempt reveals the secret to escaping: No rope. The fear of death pushes you to do your best as you're driven by the basic instinct to survive (which the doctor notes). The jump is made because Bruce has finally overcome his death-wish and fears "dying in here while my city burns with no one to save it". It is this fear of death that allows him to make the jump.

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Old 08-31-2012, 09:33 PM   #171
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To me that just makes no sense. :/

He needed fear for what purpose? Making the jump wasn't about fear.
Yes it was.

See...even though he used tha trope, he he had no fear of death because thats what Bane told him. But he needed to find fear of death, in order to want to not be too afraid to make the jump, because when you're not scared, you can do anything based on your basic survival instinct.

It's so simple.

Wait, no its not...its needlessly complex.

Wait, no its not. Its just silly.

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Old 09-01-2012, 01:16 AM   #172
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Yeah, the fear of death thing was kinda clunky. I think maybe what they were trying to get at is the idea that " A Man with nothing to lose , is a man with nothing to live for". Bruce didn't fear death because he felt he had nothing to live for, aside from being Batman. In that sense, its alot easier to welcome death.

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Old 09-01-2012, 09:57 PM   #173
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Bruce used the rope at first because that's what was customary in the pit. He didn't know "the child" did it without the rope, so there's no point in him risking his life if, as far as he's concerned, it's possible to make the jump with the rope.

Once the doctor tells him the child did it without the rope, I think that's when Bruce realizes that's what he must also do if he wants to get out. If there was any doubt that the rope was physically holding people back, I'd say that is squashed when he learns that the one person to ever escape the prison did so without the rope.

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Old 09-02-2012, 04:21 AM   #174
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Yes it was.

See...even though he used tha trope, he he had no fear of death because thats what Bane told him. But he needed to find fear of death, in order to want to not be too afraid to make the jump, because when you're not scared, you can do anything based on your basic survival instinct.

It's so simple.

Wait, no its not...its needlessly complex.

Wait, no its not. Its just silly.
I don't think it's silly. It ties in nicely with Batman Begins. Bruce thought purging his fear made him stronger. Ultimately, it made him weaker because fear can be the ultimate motivator. It can make you feel alive. When he re-imbraced his fear, he was declaring he wanted to live again. There was other ideas in TDKR that were silly but this was one of the best moments in the trilogy IMHO.

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Old 09-02-2012, 04:36 AM   #175
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

On a physiological level, sheer adrenaline can make it possible for people to do superhuman things, like lift a car to save a child. So doing it without the rope, with his life at stake, could have given him that extra edge.

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