The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

[the_scream]

Originally Posted by Anita18

On a physiological level, sheer adrenaline can make it possible for people to do superhuman things, like lift a car to save a child. So doing it without the rope, with his life at stake, could have given him that extra edge.

Definitely. He makes the jump or dies. Pretty compelling motivator.

[Haris]

Im interested to know what you guys feel about the final battle between Batman and Bane. While I really enjoyed the whole film and felt that Bane was a very credible villain, I can't help but feel slightly frustrated at how he went out. Throughout the whole film, Bane is built up as this unstoppable monster but in the end Batman seemingly defeats Bane with relative ease. I understand the whole 'hero always comes out on top' thats fine but I feel that it should have taken a whole lot more for Batman to beat him. Lets not forget both the physical and mental damage Bane inflicted upon Batman earlier on in the movie. Thoughts?

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Haris

Im interested to know what you guys feel about the final battle between Batman and Bane. While I really enjoyed the whole film and felt that Bane was a very credible villain, I can't help but feel slightly frustrated at how he went out. Throughout the whole film, Bane is built up as this unstoppable monster but in the end Batman seemingly defeats Bane with relative ease. I understand the whole 'hero always comes out on top' thats fine but I feel that it should have taken a whole lot more for Batman to beat him. Lets not forget both the physical and mental damage Bane inflicted upon Batman earlier on in the movie. Thoughts?

I love the final battle between Batman and Bane, but I can see how people would want like an additional minute tacked onto it. I loved how when Batman finally got the upper hand he did defeat Bane with ease. If Bane is the physical equal, then Batman is the mentally superior of the two. You can even say that Batman's will is also superior because it also helped him to defeat Bane.

As far as it being longer though, I'm not sure how much more they could have shown with the fight. If it went on any longer after Batman broke Bane's mask, I fear it would have possibly dragged on. Showing Batman take Bane out in an instant, once he has the clear advantage, really depicts Batman's efficiency in combat.

[Haris]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I love the final battle between Batman and Bane, but I can see how people would want like an additional minute tacked onto it. I loved how when Batman finally got the upper hand he did defeat Bane with ease. If Bane is the physical equal, then Batman is the mentally superior of the two. You can even say that Batman's will is also superior because it also helped him to defeat Bane.

As far as it being longer though, I'm not sure how much more they could have shown with the fight. If it went on any longer after Batman broke Bane's mask, I fear it would have possibly dragged on. Showing Batman take Bane out in an instant, once he has the clear advantage, really depicts Batman's efficiency in combat.

I see your point about Batman's will being superior and I think it only makes him a better hero. Saying that though don't you feel that if the fight, even if it wasn't any longer, but just had more offence from Bane would only only make Batman look even more better? In my opinion it would make him look like an even bigger hero and make us adore his will and determination even more if lets say him and Bane are fighting, Bane looks on the verge of winning and finally getting rid of Batman but then Batman shows his mental superiority and as you said efficiency in combat to turn it around and beat Bane.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Haris

I see your point about Batman's will being superior and I think it only makes him a better hero. Saying that though don't you feel that if the fight, even if it wasn't any longer, but just had more offence from Bane would only only make Batman look even more better? In my opinion it would make him look like an even bigger hero and make us adore his will and determination even more if lets say him and Bane are fighting, Bane looks on the verge of winning and finally getting rid of Batman but then Batman shows his mental superiority and as you said efficiency in combat to turn it around and beat Bane.

I believe what we got nailed it, IMO. Bane was giving Batman another thrashing up until they got up the steps. That's when they locked horns and Bane felt Batman's strength and knew this wasn't the same desperate and broken down man he faced and defeated the first time.

Plus, I don't think it would have worked to have Bane beat Batman down again, only for him to this time actually come back and win. If Batman wouldn't have gained an advantage when he did he might have ended up losing again.

[Brita21]

Going to see the movie again on Tuesday!!!

As I'm reading all these posts I can't help but wonder what people expect really... there is so many people on here that don't "like Christopher Nolan's batman".... what did you want the new films to be like?? and how can anyone say that the films from 1989-1997 were better? They're great movies but not even on the same level of the newest trilogy. The same thing goes for Transformers fans, so many people hate on Bay's films... but again what would the movie had to have been like for it to be at their standards? I personally thought Revenge of the Fallen was amazing! I just don't get it personally.

[Brita21]

Originally Posted by Haris

Im interested to know what you guys feel about the final battle between Batman and Bane. While I really enjoyed the whole film and felt that Bane was a very credible villain, I can't help but feel slightly frustrated at how he went out. Throughout the whole film, Bane is built up as this unstoppable monster but in the end Batman seemingly defeats Bane with relative ease. I understand the whole 'hero always comes out on top' thats fine but I feel that it should have taken a whole lot more for Batman to beat him. Lets not forget both the physical and mental damage Bane inflicted upon Batman earlier on in the movie. Thoughts?

I loved the final battle between them two I just didn't like how it came down to Bane in tears, all over Talia... when he's supposed to put off an image of being so big, and manly, and un-destructable.. so that was a little disappointing but I didn't let it ruin the movie for me

[the_scream]

Originally Posted by Brita21

I loved the final battle between them two I just didn't like how it came down to Bane in tears, all over Talia... when he's supposed to put off an image of being so big, and manly, and un-destructable.. so that was a little disappointing but I didn't let it ruin the movie for me

I liked that. It demonstrated that he wasn't just a one dimensional villain with only one purpose. I think it adds to the character.

[Rincewind]

Originally Posted by Haris

Im interested to know what you guys feel about the final battle between Batman and Bane. While I really enjoyed the whole film and felt that Bane was a very credible villain, I can't help but feel slightly frustrated at how he went out. Throughout the whole film, Bane is built up as this unstoppable monster but in the end Batman seemingly defeats Bane with relative ease. I understand the whole 'hero always comes out on top' thats fine but I feel that it should have taken a whole lot more for Batman to beat him. Lets not forget both the physical and mental damage Bane inflicted upon Batman earlier on in the movie. Thoughts?

This is how I see it - in their first battle, Batman was rusty and he severely underestimated Bane. He has gotten used to being physically superior to his opponents and didn't take the threat seriously, not really. Heck, after Catwoman betrayed him, his first reaction (to her) was "You've just made a serious mistake", as in, "Okay, now I'm going to trash these guys and when I'm done I'll deal with you too". I'm almost tempted to say he was being cocky. Over the course of the fight with Bane you can see how he slowly realizes that he chewed up more than he could swallow but it was already too late.

Now, in the second fight he was prepared for Bane. He knew what Bane was capable of and went in the fight with that knowledge.
And, in my opinion, he was also so desparate to save Gotham that he reached deep down and mustered all his strength. He simply wasn't going to allow himself to lose. He would either win and save the city or die trying. I think that this mentality allowed him to win. He was going down in a blaze of glory and he was going to take Bane with him. It wasn't so much a matter of physical ability but almost inhuman determination.

My two cents, at least.

[the_scream]

Originally Posted by Rincewind

This is how I see it - in their first battle, Batman was rusty and he severely underestimated Bane. He has gotten used to being physically superior to his opponents and didn't take the threat seriously, not really. Heck, after Catwoman betrayed him, his first reaction (to her) was "You've just made a serious mistake", as in, "Okay, now I'm going to trash these guys and when I'm done I'll deal with you too". I'm almost tempted to say he was being cocky. Over the course of the fight with Bane you can see how he slowly realizes that he chewed up more than he could swallow but it was already too late.

Now, in the second fight he was prepared for Bane. He knew what Bane was capable of and went in the fight with that knowledge.
And, in my opinion, he was also so desparate to save Gotham that he reached deep down and mustered all his strength. He simply wasn't going to allow himself to lose. He would either win and save the city or die trying. I think that this mentality allowed him to win. He was going down in a blaze of glory and he was going to take Bane with him. It wasn't so much a matter of physical ability but almost inhuman determination.

My two cents, at least.

Plus he had been training again.

[Haris]

Originally Posted by Rincewind

This is how I see it - in their first battle, Batman was rusty and he severely underestimated Bane. He has gotten used to being physically superior to his opponents and didn't take the threat seriously, not really. Heck, after Catwoman betrayed him, his first reaction (to her) was "You've just made a serious mistake", as in, "Okay, now I'm going to trash these guys and when I'm done I'll deal with you too". I'm almost tempted to say he was being cocky. Over the course of the fight with Bane you can see how he slowly realizes that he chewed up more than he could swallow but it was already too late.

Now, in the second fight he was prepared for Bane. He knew what Bane was capable of and went in the fight with that knowledge.
And, in my opinion, he was also so desparate to save Gotham that he reached deep down and mustered all his strength. He simply wasn't going to allow himself to lose. He would either win and save the city or die trying. I think that this mentality allowed him to win. He was going down in a blaze of glory and he was going to take Bane with him. It wasn't so much a matter of physical ability but almost inhuman determination.

My two cents, at least.

Again, these points are valid and make sense but its just in my own opinion I feel that it would give Batman even more credibility and make us as the audience appreciate his determination, efficiency and and his will to learn and adapt if he just had a bit more of a battle with Bane. You could keep it the same length but maybe instead of Batman managing to disfigure Bane's mask when theyre outside, you could save that for when they get into the builiding. I will say that I loved the overall scene with all of the police officers and the terrorists fighting it out. I didnt really have too much of a problem with the introduction of Talia.

What other scenes did you guys enjoy/dislike?

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Haris

Again, these points are valid and make sense but its just in my own opinion I feel that it would give Batman even more credibility and make us as the audience appreciate his determination, efficiency and and his will to learn and adapt if he just had a bit more of a battle with Bane. You could keep it the same length but maybe instead of Batman managing to disfigure Bane's mask when theyre outside, you could save that for when they get into the builiding. I will say that I loved the overall scene with all of the police officers and the terrorists fighting it out. I didnt really have too much of a problem with the introduction of Talia.

What other scenes did you guys enjoy/dislike?

The Bruce/Selina masquerade ball scene was utter perfection. Bale and Anne were just on fire when it came to chemistry and great character portrayals. What made the scene for me was Bale's exuberance. I already knew Anne was killing it when we saw that little snippet before the film's release. But seeing Bale as Bruce alive, playful and giving Selina a taste of her own medicine when it came to correcting her pronunciation of "Ibiza" - Just an amazing scene.

[Ecuanime]

Originally Posted by Haris

Im interested to know what you guys feel about the final battle between Batman and Bane. While I really enjoyed the whole film and felt that Bane was a very credible villain, I can't help but feel slightly frustrated at how he went out. Throughout the whole film, Bane is built up as this unstoppable monster but in the end Batman seemingly defeats Bane with relative ease. I understand the whole 'hero always comes out on top' thats fine but I feel that it should have taken a whole lot more for Batman to beat him. Lets not forget both the physical and mental damage Bane inflicted upon Batman earlier on in the movie. Thoughts?

I didn't like the second fight on first view, it felt anti-climactic. But there's a lot of pyschology in play throughout the movie and after watching the movie several more times, I see that Bane's formidability seems to wane towards the end of the film, perhaps so the film can give rise to Talia, but also I think he did everything he wanted to do which was to defeat Batman and set prisoners free, after that he wasn't much of a threat in the movie (a good depiction is in the court, he's just standing in the crowd fidgeting with something while Scarecrow is presiding as judge and says "Bane has no power here"). At this point he seems to be finally content and at ease with what he'd done to Gotham City, which was bring his own form of justice.

So for the second fight, Bane isn't ready for Batman. He's awed ("Impossible!" when he sees the Bat signal burning on a building) at the fact that Bruce made it back from the pit after being broken. Bruce did something that he couldn't even do. And as Alfred said: "Sometimes the pit give something back" which for Bruce is strength, a will to live, and determination to save his city. Bane was in trouble.

[Travesty]

I liked the second fight until the Talia reveal. Totally ruined the scene, along with the way Bane was taken out by Catwoman.

[The Guard]

I like the second Bane/Batman fight. I don't think it's an issue of length so much as it is an issue of the overall encounter between them just not being executed all that well in general. It starts off with a pretty awful cliche "encounter" line, and there's just very little suspense after that point. They trade blows, and are clearly supposed to be evenly matched until they just aren't anymore because Batman ripped Bane's tubes out. The tension isn't really built all that well to that point.

[VenomShock]

Originally Posted by Brita21

Going to see the movie again on Tuesday!!!

As I'm reading all these posts I can't help but wonder what people expect really... there is so many people on here that don't "like Christopher Nolan's batman".... what did you want the new films to be like?? and how can anyone say that the films from 1989-1997 were better? They're great movies but not even on the same level of the newest trilogy.

I don't quite get it either, though the reaction IS mixed (for example, people who weren't ecstatic about the first two have said that TDKR is a masterpiece, people who liked only Dark Knight have come out hating it a bit) , I still feel like some acknowledgement should go toward Nolan's achievements and the fact that these movies have come out at a time where entertainment carries a rotting brain. Then again, the big haters of this trilogy (BIG haters, that is) seem to fall under two categories to me: A) The ones that have become so annoyed with the love that Nolan constantly gets seemingly without criticism, to the point where they feel they have to hate the series completely to be different. B) The ones that are overly comic-book obsessed and view comics as the highest form of entertainment, which means that every adaptation must be a 100% slave to the source. These are more people that don't get movies, and that give comic-book fans a bad name.

The same thing goes for Transformers fans, so many people hate on Bay's films... but again what would the movie had to have been like for it to be at their standards? I personally thought Revenge of the Fallen was amazing! I just don't get it personally.

I'm going to have to disagree with this, though. Those movies are absolute garbage, really freakin' terrible. And the thing is, it's GIANT ROBOTS FIGHTING AND TRANSFORMING INTO CARS. That should IMPOSSIBLE to mess-up... yet Michael Bay found a way. He decided to load it with humor a 4th grader would find amusing, he decided to make a lot of his characters racist stereotypes, and he decided to have some of the most painful "teen comedy" humor like the stuff with the parents and Sam's love life.

They're completely devoid of class. Really? Dogs humping each other in the midst of an action scene, Megan Fox landing on the guy's crotch, and a robot humping megan fox amounts to an "amazing" movie? The parents barging in on Sam and asking if he was jerking off in a TRANSFORMERS movie? Is that really supposed to be funny? Is that really supposed to be what I paid money to see? I missed plenty of examples on top of that.

The action is also shot shaky and disgustingly. I don't have a problem with stupid-fun action movies, but when you go out of your way thinking you're funny and throw in stuff like that? It's horrible. That was EXACTLY where The Schumacher Batman films failed. THEY thought they were being funny through a lot of it, too. They were not.

[bale batman]

tdkr was the best movie i have ever saw !! nolan work is butt off . it was just great

[Selina Kyle]

Originally Posted by bale batman

tdkr was the best movie i have ever saw !! nolan work is butt off . it was just great

You have to read between the lines. Nolan said he won't direct another "Batman" film. But he could very well produce another one, like what he's doing with Man of Steel. Or better yet, direct a "Nightwing" movie.

[Brita21]

I must have not caught onto something in the movie, but how did Bane already know who Batman was during the first fight? I just watched it for the second time today and noticed he calls him Mr. Wayne

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I like the second Bane/Batman fight. I don't think it's an issue of length so much as it is an issue of the overall encounter between them just not being executed all that well in general. It starts off with a pretty awful cliche "encounter" line, and there's just very little suspense after that point. They trade blows, and are clearly supposed to be evenly matched until they just aren't anymore because Batman ripped Bane's tubes out. The tension isn't really built all that well to that point.

There's a pretty big disconnect between your first sentence and everything else you wrote

About that second fight though, I personally like it. The whole thing feels very much like a boxing rematch would in a fighting movie where you're just cheering every blow Batman lands. The score helps a lot with that too. And love the Bat-scowl at the top of the steps. It's so majestic in its fury...or furious in its majesty...can't decide.

[VenomShock]

Originally Posted by Brita21

I must have not caught onto something in the movie, but how did Bane already know who Batman was during the first fight? I just watched it for the second time today and noticed he calls him Mr. Wayne

He's the new leader of the League of Shadows. He was likely told by the same people that informed him and Talia that Ras had been killed in the first place.

[MagnarTheGreat]

Originally Posted by Brita21

I must have not caught onto something in the movie, but how did Bane already know who Batman was during the first fight? I just watched it for the second time today and noticed he calls him Mr. Wayne

The League of Shadows know that Bruce Wayne is Batman from the first film, Batman Begins.

After Ra's dies, the other League members would inform Talia, who was still a member of the League while Bane was outside the League at the time. So she forgave her father's decision to expel Bane ("I could not forgive my father...until you murdered him") and took up the torch as "an heir to ensure that the League of Shadows fulfills its duty to restore balance to civilization" (as Bruce Wayne figures in the prison) right after his death.

[mjbull23]

Originally Posted by Haris

Im interested to know what you guys feel about the final battle between Batman and Bane. While I really enjoyed the whole film and felt that Bane was a very credible villain, I can't help but feel slightly frustrated at how he went out. Throughout the whole film, Bane is built up as this unstoppable monster but in the end Batman seemingly defeats Bane with relative ease. I understand the whole 'hero always comes out on top' thats fine but I feel that it should have taken a whole lot more for Batman to beat him. Lets not forget both the physical and mental damage Bane inflicted upon Batman earlier on in the movie. Thoughts?

Yea, I felt Banes demise was not handled as well as it should have been. Batman should have been the one to have dealt his final card. The fight was over a bit too quick for my liking.

[Haris]

I guess it comes down to a matter of opinion really. Clearly some people are happy with the final fight and wouldnt change a thing. Others, including myself feel that it could have been slightly different with a bit more Bane offence. I do enjoy the pyschology of both battles including the role reversal in preparation. If you look at it, the two fights parallel(right word?) each other in that either Batman or Bane isnt fully prepared, while the other has the sole determination to win. That's quite cool

[Brita21]

Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat

The League of Shadows know that Bruce Wayne is Batman from the first film, Batman Begins.

After Ra's dies, the other League members would inform Talia, who was still a member of the League while Bane was outside the League at the time. So she forgave her father's decision to expel Bane ("I could not forgive my father...until you murdered him") and took up the torch as "an heir to ensure that the League of Shadows fulfills its duty to restore balance to civilization" (as Bruce Wayne figures in the prison) right after his death.

Thank you!