Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 5

[metaphysician]

Okay, how about this: point to one role or performance that would convince me Keanu Reeves can play "transcendent super genius." Just one.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

Okay, how about this: point to one role or performance that would convince me Keanu Reeves can play "transcendent super genius." Just one.

yeah.... that's laughable



Keanu is so far from the opposite of that... he's known still mostly for coming off like a stoned surfer than anything. So... unless this is Reed and Vic, the college years.......

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by terry78

I think the final battle with Doom in a later movie should be Mr. Fantastic vs. Doom, partly physical and partly just from their own knowledge via inventions or weapons they've respectively created. The other three can take part, but they shouldn't be able to really do much damage.

I'd like to see the entire team take on Doom for a final battle. Reed doesn't seem like he can do much to Doom physically, and that's where the entire team comes in. But when it comes to inventions and weapons, I can see the two going head-to-head while the team sits that one out.

[DrCosmic]

Keanu would be a great silver surfer. He's a wooden actor, but he still has a decent, sometimes strong presence while being wooden. That's what uber stoic characters like Surfer and Vision need.

That's not what Reed needs, he needs to be a bit more empathically relatable, he needs to love science, he needs to inspire creativity, and Keanu doesn't really do that. So, he'd be a really bad choice. I know some people see Reed as wooden, but I think that leads to the Johnny-driven sort of F4 that really doesn't capture the spirit of the characters, where each one is emotionally and intellectually necessary. A wooden Reed is just a plot device, not a good idea, imho.

Taylor Lautner as Johnny, on the other hand, would be a step in the right direction, imho. Certainly would get the necessary crowd.

Originally Posted by terry78

I think the final battle with Doom in a later movie should be Mr. Fantastic vs. Doom, partly physical and partly just from their own knowledge via inventions or weapons they've respectively created. The other three can take part, but they shouldn't be able to really do much damage.

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

I'd like to see the entire team take on Doom for a final battle. Reed doesn't seem like he can do much to Doom physically, and that's where the entire team comes in. But when it comes to inventions and weapons, I can see the two going head-to-head while the team sits that one out.

I don't think it should be Reed's movie, where he basically fixes the problem (Doom) all by himself, and the others are just there to inspire him. That's what happened with Johnny in the FF movies and I don't think I'd like it any better if it were Reed, even though that happens a lot in the comics. I think Reed vs Doom should play out almost exactly like Sherlock vs Moriarity at the end of Game of Shadows - the good guy wins the mental conflict, but loses the physical one - except it should occur midway through the film, and show why Reed needs the others, because physically he can't best Doom, even if he can outsmart Doom and beat Doom's plan, he can't stop Doom by himself, because Doom is more than just a scientist, and an equal intellect, he's additionally a ruthless tactician, and there's not enough 'intelligence' for that, Reed (and the audience, i would argue) needs something more elemental than that, to take down Doom.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by marcvader

The only role I find would suit Keanu is Groot.

What about just a normal stick that's barely noticeable in the background? He could do that.

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Taylor Lautner as Johnny, on the other hand, would be a step in the right direction, imho. Certainly would get the necessary crowd.

Hell to the no. Johnny needs to be handsome...

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Keanu would be a great silver surfer. He's a wooden actor, but he still has a decent, sometimes strong presence while being wooden. That's what uber stoic characters like Surfer and Vision need.

That's not what Reed needs, he needs to be a bit more empathically relatable, he needs to love science, he needs to inspire creativity, and Keanu doesn't really do that. So, he'd be a really bad choice. I know some people see Reed as wooden, but I think that leads to the Johnny-driven sort of F4 that really doesn't capture the spirit of the characters, where each one is emotionally and intellectually necessary. A wooden Reed is just a plot device, not a good idea, imho.

Taylor Lautner as Johnny, on the other hand, would be a step in the right direction, imho. Certainly would get the necessary crowd.

.

agrees with everything but Lautner. Horrid actor.. doesn't look a thing like the human torch, and is the equivalent of casting Alba as Sue. That's actually a step back... Lautner's acting ability makes Alba look like Meryl Streep......

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

Okay, how about this: point to one role or performance that would convince me Keanu Reeves can play "transcendent super genius." Just one.

How about you show me one role that would've convinced me that RDJ could play a 'transcendant super genius'. What, Derek Lutz on 'Back to School'? Good thing they didn't have to use your criteria to judge whether he could play Iron Man or not or we might've gotten Jeff Goldblum based on his character from 'The Fly'.

How about giving me something pre-Thor to show Hemsworth could play a Norse God. The premise behind your request is laughable.

Or Ruffallo - you know, the dude from the romantic comedies '13 Going on 30' and 'Rumor Has It' - as genius nuclear phycisist Bruce Banner? Are you getting the ridiculousness of your statement?

But, to answer your question, off the top of my head, closest I can come is as a scientist in 'Chain Reaction'. Again not that that should have anything to do with a future role.

Reeves has done over 70 films including comedy, drama, horror, sci-fi, romcom, action/adventure. He has a movie out this year and 2 next year so far. And yet he's a talentless wooden guy who can't act according to the brain trust on here. He sure has made a lot of money as an actor while managing to avoid being typecast as Ted, something that just sorta shoots holes all in your and spiderboy's arguments against him. As I said, I gave my reasons why he could play Reed and rebutted your objections. Again, I was just giving my opinion. Why that has to stir up such ire is beyond me.

[spideyboy_1111]

There's plenty of hack actors who still act.....

I think with your love for Keanu you're taking this to personally.

As others have stated he'd be much better suited for surfer or vision

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

actually its not just my opinion.. he has 2 block busters under his belt... Matrix (general consensus is that the sequels sucked), and Speed. I'll throw in Constantine for good measure ... Other than that he's done more independent and small films than anything.

the dude is not a Will Smith.

What does this have to do with anything?

So you're saying that your requirement to play a superhero successfully is to have more than 2 blockbuster movies?

How many blockbusters did Tobey McGuire have before Spider-Man?
How about Jackman before X-Men?
Hemsworth? Downey,Jr.? Evans?

Were any of them 'Will Smiths'?

Newsflash: none of them had ONE blockbuster yet were great in their respective rolls which makes your requirement moot. It is your OPINION that Keanu wouldn't make a great Reed and for you to try to pass it off as fact is silly.

And for your further information, the first Bill and Ted was HUGE at the time. And as I've also stated, Reeves has had hits in many other genres, not just sci-fi.

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

Your reasoning's if anything.. would be far more acceptable if this was the 90s...

Same could've been said of Downey. What if Favreau had used your '90s' reasoning to decide not to cast Downey as Stark. What a loss that norrowmindedness would have been for all of us.

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

a great example.. he didn't bring too many butts into seats for "the day the earth stood still"

Yes, because it sucked. It is one movie, not his recent career as you tried to paint it. He has 3 films out in the next 2 years, probably more. He's still making big bucks as an actor. I guess another of your 'criteria' is that his every film is superb, the same standard I'm sure you fail to hold other actors to in relation to their respective roles simply because you don't have the problem of not personally liking them.

[Incrediblejeff]

Keanu Reeves as Reed is an awful idea.He's totally not right for the role.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Spider - Man

What does this have to do with anything?

So you're saying that your requirement to play a superhero successfully is to have more than 2 blockbuster movies?

How many blockbusters did Tobey McGuire have before Spider-Man?
How about Jackman before X-Men?
Hemsworth? Downey,Jr.? Evans?

Were any of them 'Will Smiths'?

Newsflash: none of them had ONE blockbuster yet were great in their respective rolls which makes your requirement moot. It is your OPINION that Keanu wouldn't make a great Reed and for you to try to pass it off as fact is silly.

And for your further information, the first Bill and Ted was HUGE at the time. And as I've also stated, Reeves has had hits in many other genres, not just sci-fi.



Same could've been said of Downey. What if Favreau had used your '90s' reasoning to decide not to cast Downey as Stark. What a loss that norrowmindedness would have been for all of us.




Yes, because it sucked. It is one movie, not his recent career as you tried to paint it. He has 3 films out in the next 2 years, probably more. He's still making big bucks as an actor. I guess another of your 'criteria' is that his every film is superb, the same standard I'm sure you fail to hold other actors to in relation to their respective roles simply because you don't have the problem of not personally liking them.

Dude.... You said so yourself that "Keanu would bring in a wider audience because he has box office appeal" do you forget what comes out of your head??? I was countering your logic by giving examples of how he is not that kinda person..........

If you want to debate be able to back your opinions up

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

There's plenty of hack actors who still act.....

I think with your love for Keanu you're taking this to personally.

As others have stated he'd be much better suited for surfer or vision

There's a difference between headlining films and being cast as the lead's sister's husband.

I am in no way a huge Reeves fan. But for the reasons I have stated repeatedly, I believe he could be a great Reed.

Others have stated their opinion just as I have. But you take their opinions and restate them as fact - 'he'd be much better suited...'.

So here's a question? You said: "Keanu has plenty of movies under his belt that don't bring in an audience... These days he's known for being a bad , wooden actor and is the butt of alot of jokes... "

So, to you, these attributes disqualify him from playing Reed but make it perfectly ok to play the Surfer or Vision?

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

Dude.... You said so yourself that "Keanu would bring in a wider audience because he has box office appeal" do you forget what comes out of your head??? I was countering your logic by giving examples of how he is not that kinda person..........

If you want to debate be able to back your opinions up

Dude...poor returns on one sucky movie does not break an actor's box office appeal. If so, Bruce Willis's career would've been over after Hudson Hawk. You were not countering my logic because my logic did not state that since "The Day the Earth Stood Still' sucked, Reeves' box office appeal ceased to exist. One does not necessarily dictate the other. That was some connection YOU erroniously came up with. Maybe you should double check before you let stuff come outta your head.

And I wasn;t trying to say he was a blockbuster star...I said he would bring name-recognition (moreso than Ioan Griuffod or however you spell it) without the big price tag.

Edit: Holy ****! I just noticed your post count! Over 50,000 posts??!! I digress. Anyone who spends that much time on here must be the master of all things comic book movie-ish! I'll just give it to ya!

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Spider - Man

Dude...poor returns on one sucky movie does not break an actor's box office appeal. If so, Bruce Willis's career would've been over after Hudson Hawk. You were not countering my logic because my logic did not state that since "The Day the Earth Stood Still' sucked, Reeves' box office appeal ceased to exist. One does not necessarily dictate the other. That was some connection YOU erroniously came up with. Maybe you should double check before you let stuff come outta your head.

And I wasn;t trying to say he was a blockbuster star...I said he would bring name-recognition (moreso than Ioan Griuffod or however you spell it) without the big price tag.

Edit: Holy ****! I just noticed your post count! Over 50,000 posts??!! I digress. Anyone who spends that much time on here must be the master of all things comic book movie-ish! I'll just give it to ya!

cheap attacks on a message board = running out of ideas and using as a last resort...and you're saying i have no life?

look this is how debates work. You based your reasoning's behind Reeves being Reed over...

1) looks
2) box office drawl.

While looks.. is completely your opinion i wont argue that. but box office drawl one can.. you have stated absolutely no proof what so ever that Keanu has a large box office drawl, and you were called out because of it. Will Smith was used as an example because figures show that he has a huge box office drawl, block buster after block buster. Keanu does not, and there's not an ounce of proof that he does.

and you're entitled to whatever opinion you want.. but you seem to be the only one who is fond of the Keanu/Reed pairing... so that should at least tell you something.

and other than DTESS, Keanu really hasn't had a major film out since Constantine... scanner darkly came out shortly after.. but that falls into the indie category. it's been about 7 years since people have really seen him in a some what substantial film....

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Spider - Man

There's a difference between headlining films and being cast as the lead's sister's husband.

I am in no way a huge Reeves fan. But for the reasons I have stated repeatedly, I believe he could be a great Reed.

Others have stated their opinion just as I have. But you take their opinions and restate them as fact - 'he'd be much better suited...'.

So here's a question? You said: "Keanu has plenty of movies under his belt that don't bring in an audience... These days he's known for being a bad , wooden actor and is the butt of alot of jokes... "

So, to you, these attributes disqualify him from playing Reed but make it perfectly ok to play the Surfer or Vision?

because making Keanu a "genius" is like making Pamela Anderson a Politician....

there's a since of believability and the wait these actors have a reputation of bringing.

[marcvader]

Originally Posted by Spider - Man

Dude...poor returns on one sucky movie does not break an actor's box office appeal. If so, Bruce Willis's career would've been over after Hudson Hawk. You were not countering my logic because my logic did not state that since "The Day the Earth Stood Still' sucked, Reeves' box office appeal ceased to exist. One does not necessarily dictate the other. That was some connection YOU erroniously came up with. Maybe you should double check before you let stuff come outta your head.

And I wasn;t trying to say he was a blockbuster star...I said he would bring name-recognition (moreso than Ioan Griuffod or however you spell it) without the big price tag.

Edit: Holy ****! I just noticed your post count! Over 50,000 posts??!! I digress. Anyone who spends that much time on here must be the master of all things comic book movie-ish! I'll just give it to ya!

Sometimes it takes a big man to this.

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by marcvader

Sometimes it takes a big man to this.

I think it's obvious this sort of thing means MUCH more to him. Not a big deal at all.

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

cheap attacks on a message board = running out of ideas and using as a last resort...and you're saying i have no life?

Where did I cheaply attack? Where did I run out of ideas? I never said you have no life. I'm just saying 50,000 post counts means that you do spend an awful lot of time on here (your business - to each his own) and I'm certain that whatever you perceive as a victory on here would mean much more to you than to me.

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

look this is how debates work. You based your reasoning's behind Reeves being Reed over...

1) looks
2) box office drawl.

1) let's start with the inflammatory tone of your statements - 'look, this is how debates work' like I'm a moron. That's nice. Again, you're like a dog pissing on your turf and it's obvious you don't like anyone challenging your opinion or your 'territory'.
2) it 'draw', not 'drawl'
3) I'm going to correct your errors for you about what I said and then I'm out.

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

While looks.. is completely your opinion i wont argue that. but box office drawl one can.. you have stated absolutely no proof what so ever that Keanu has a large box office drawl, and you were called out because of it. Will Smith was used as an example because figures show that he has a huge box office drawl, block buster after block buster. Keanu does not, and there's not an ounce of proof that he does.

YOU stated, based on ONE FILM, that Reeves WASN'T a big box office draw. I also stated that it was his name recognition that would be the draw. You know 'Fantastic Four starring Keanu Reeves' as opposed to "FF starring Ioan Gruffud". Get the distinction?

You said: you have stated absolutely no proof what so ever that Keanu has a large box office drawl, and you were called out because of it.

Here's what I stated about him: he'd give this film enough star cred without costing too much in actors salaries. This means 'name recognition', not 'huge box office draw'.

Please quote me where I said Keanu was a 'large box office drawl'. You can't because I didn't. Next time you 'call out' someone for something, make sure there's actually something to call them out on.

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

and you're entitled to whatever opinion you want.. but you seem to be the only one who is fond of the Keanu/Reed pairing... so that should at least tell you something.

Well, actually jonathancrane said if keanu played reed he'd see the movie many times. Maybe you should hurry off and start calling him out on some stuff since he dares to agree with my opinion. Or do you think that more people disagree with my opinion than o agree with it=my opinion is meaningless?

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

and other than DTESS, Keanu really hasn't had a major film out since Constantine... scanner darkly came out shortly after.. but that falls into the indie category. it's been about 7 years since people have really seen him in a some what substantial film....

How many major films did Downey have in the 7 years before Iron Man? How many blockbusters did Christian Bale have befoere Batman Begins?
All I was saying was that with Reeves they could get a recognizable name (for his past successes) without paying a lot. YOU seem much moe focused on 'box office draw' as a criteria for being legit to play a superhero. Just because someone chooses to make indie films doesn't mean its because they can't do major films. This is a misperception on your part.

Now let me just state for the record: Spiderboy 1111 is right. I am wrong. Reeves would suck as Reed. There, end of discussion.

[R_Hythlodeus]

Still the Keanu nonsense? I'm outta here....

[MarvelKnight]

lol

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Spider - Man

Where did I cheaply attack? Where did I run out of ideas? I never said you have no life. I'm just saying 50,000 post counts means that you do spend an awful lot of time on here (your business - to each his own) and I'm certain that whatever you perceive as a victory on here would mean much more to you than to me.



1) let's start with the inflammatory tone of your statements - 'look, this is how debates work' like I'm a moron. That's nice. Again, you're like a dog pissing on your turf and it's obvious you don't like anyone challenging your opinion or your 'territory'.
2) it 'draw', not 'drawl'
3) I'm going to correct your errors for you about what I said and then I'm out.



YOU stated, based on ONE FILM, that Reeves WASN'T a big box office draw. I also stated that it was his name recognition that would be the draw. You know 'Fantastic Four starring Keanu Reeves' as opposed to "FF starring Ioan Gruffud". Get the distinction?

You said: you have stated absolutely no proof what so ever that Keanu has a large box office drawl, and you were called out because of it.

Here's what I stated about him: he'd give this film enough star cred without costing too much in actors salaries. This means 'name recognition', not 'huge box office draw'.

Please quote me where I said Keanu was a 'large box office drawl'. You can't because I didn't. Next time you 'call out' someone for something, make sure there's actually something to call them out on.



Well, actually jonathancrane said if keanu played reed he'd see the movie many times. Maybe you should hurry off and start calling him out on some stuff since he dares to agree with my opinion. Or do you think that more people disagree with my opinion than o agree with it=my opinion is meaningless?



How many major films did Downey have in the 7 years before Iron Man? How many blockbusters did Christian Bale have befoere Batman Begins?
All I was saying was that with Reeves they could get a recognizable name (for his past successes) without paying a lot. YOU seem much moe focused on 'box office draw' as a criteria for being legit to play a superhero. Just because someone chooses to make indie films doesn't mean its because they can't do major films. This is a misperception on your part.

Now let me just state for the record: Spiderboy 1111 is right. I am wrong. Reeves would suck as Reed. There, end of discussion.

your comment sounded sarcastic... like a cheap shot.

but maybe we're both reading eachother's tones wrong? I tried to sound pretty calm and reasonable in my last few posts to you.

I stated the one film because A) it was the last big film he did, and B) I was on a cell phone, so wasn't going to ramble off a list for you.

and to be honest... Constantine didn't fair much better either (for being what i'd consider one of his better movies)... DTESS opened to 30mil, for a WW total of $233,093,859, Constantine actually did under that with... a 29mil opening weekend and a WW total of $230,884,728

I don't think Keanu is going to really make much of a difference with his name on it to be honest, he's been absent from major films for about a decade, and it'd be like the male equivalent of Wynonna Rider's return to film, though she's known for being a better actor. Did her name being attached to Star Trek help? no... and majority of the stars in that films were no names as well.

name recognition IS box office drawl though. the two are synonymous. actually.. i take that back. They CAN be synonymous.. but a name in a film can actually hurt it (like Nicolas Cage and Lindsey Lohan are currently dealing with)

Robert might of not been in huge films since ironman, but he's won many awards and recognition for his craft (if you notice that's typically been a trend over the years with actors in a comic book film.. aside from a select few)

[Project862006]

Could Dane DeHaan(Lawless,Chronicle) be A Human Torch Contender?

http://www.hollywoodoutbreak.com/201...ur-experience/

[spideyboy_1111]

he'd do ok, though, he doesn't exactly come off like a pretty boy ladies man either ... (even when looking at him done up in some photos)

[Jordacar]

I think he'd make a great Harry Osborn

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Jordacar

I think he'd make a great Harry Osborn

oh nice, that's definitely and aspiring choice