Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

[marvelrobbins]

They won't remake X3.They may leave door open for Singr to direct X-Men film which
can Ignore X but Singer won't be redoing dark Phoenix.

[misjuevos]

why constrict the director, let him make his movies. so yeah let him mess with the timeline. i wasn't a fan of first class, but liked kick-ass, so maybe i'll like his new x-men movie if he can be cut loose without having to worry about the other movies.

a sequel to a prequel is already getting confusing. so let's go for a clean slate.

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

I am with you.I already only view First Class,X-men,and X2 when I view
the films now anyway.from back to 2010 my postion has been keep X-Men
and X2 In cannon as much as possibly.Do away with everythinh In Origins and Last Stand If you want.

I know some people are keen to defend films but I think you're taking it to the limit. How can you say X1 is in continuity while X3 and Wolverine are not, and yet clearly in XFC Prof X did not meet Magneto when he was 17? So how can X1 still be continuity when Prof X got his facts wrong?

[LegendAssemble]

Originally Posted by huzzah

I know some people are keen to defend films but I think you're taking it to the limit. How can you say X1 is in continuity while X3 and Wolverine are not, and yet clearly in XFC Prof X did not meet Magneto when he was 17? So how can X1 still be continuity when Prof X got his facts wrong?

I think the movie could have a character like Bishop who lives in a world that was ravaged by the events of X3 (Xavier dead (ignoring the stupid after credits scene) Magneto depowered, and humans seeking retribution for the attack on Alcatraz). We now have the sentinels but he learns that the events of the past are occurring differently because of some kind of disturbance. (explaining why Emma was a little girl in Origins and Charles was already older and paralyzed, when she was a mature adult in first class, and why Magneto and Xavier were together when they approached Jean in X3). He sees hope to stop an event that ruined the future and inevitably goes back in time with Wolverine (because he has to be in everything) to try and fix the future.

[LegendAssemble]

Originally Posted by misjuevos

why constrict the director, let him make his movies. so yeah let him mess with the timeline. i wasn't a fan of first class, but liked kick-ass, so maybe i'll like his new x-men movie if he can be cut loose without having to worry about the other movies.

a sequel to a prequel is already getting confusing. so let's go for a clean slate.

No it's not? The Star Wars prequel system made perfect sense and worked (well it worked in that respect, story-wise is a different matter entirely). A sequel to a prequel is just another prequel. It happens after the first prequel, but still leads up to the events of the original.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by LegendAssemble

I think the movie could have a character like Bishop who lives in a world that was ravaged by the events of X3 (Xavier dead (ignoring the stupid after credits scene) Magneto depowered, and humans seeking retribution for the attack on Alcatraz). We now have the sentinels but he learns that the events of the past are occurring differently because of some kind of disturbance. (explaining why Emma was a little girl in Origins and Charles was already older and paralyzed, when she was a mature adult in first class, and why Magneto and Xavier were together when they approached Jean in X3). He sees hope to stop an event that ruined the future and inevitably goes back in time with Wolverine (because he has to be in everything) to try and fix the future.

Even better if they discovered that the dystopian future they halted was part of some larger disturbance to the timeline (causing the various continuuty differences) triggered by none other than Apocalypse.

[Nevaratoiel]

I'd say: I don't care, as long as they bring Gambit into all of it.

[DigificWriter]

Originally Posted by huzzah

I know some people are keen to defend films but I think you're taking it to the limit. How can you say X1 is in continuity while X3 and Wolverine are not, and yet clearly in XFC Prof X did not meet Magneto when he was 17? So how can X1 still be continuity when Prof X got his facts wrong?

Because Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaugn explicitly AND repeatedly stated that First Class is and always was intended to be a prequel to the first and second X-Men films despite some inconsistencies.

It might've been possible to keep Origins: Wolverine in continuity were it not for the inclusion of Emma Frost in First Class. The character cannot be in First Class (set in the 1960s) as an adult and Origins: Wolverine (set in the 1970s) as a teenager.

[Duran Man]

Well, I'd say that's a pretty big inconsistency, which is why I think they should save themselves the trouble of trying to make things fit with regards to continuity with the previous films, and wipe the slate clean a new continuity. X1-X3 fit well together as its own timeline (where Charles and Erik meet when Charles is 17), whilst First Class and Days of Future Past are part of another timeline (where they meet in their 20s).

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by DigificWriter

Because Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaugn explicitly AND repeatedly stated that First Class is and always was intended to be a prequel to the first and second X-Men films despite some inconsistencies.

It might've been possible to keep Origins: Wolverine in continuity were it not for the inclusion of Emma Frost in First Class. The character cannot be in First Class (set in the 1960s) as an adult and Origins: Wolverine (set in the 1970s) as a teenager.

No they have not said that.

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/08/03...ts-continuity/

"Yeah, I would say absolutely so," Vaughn responded when asked if "First Class" would be an official, in-continuity prequel to the "X-Men" movies that came before it.

"You've got Magneto and [Charles] Xavier when they first meet," he explained. "The backdrop of what's going on in the world when they first meet, it's very interesting. You see them and their relationship develop and play out with this major political event in the background."

No distinction has been made between X1/X2 and X3/WO. As far as they're concerned the Xmen films are in the same universe.

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by Duran Man

Well, I'd say that's a pretty big inconsistency, which is why I think they should save themselves the trouble of trying to make things fit with regards to continuity with the previous films, and wipe the slate clean a new continuity. X1-X3 fit well together as its own timeline (where Charles and Erik meet when Charles is 17), whilst First Class and Days of Future Past are part of another timeline (where they meet in their 20s).

I see First Class as a reboot, but they're just not coming out and saying it officially.

http://www.superherohype.com/feature...matthew-vaughn

SuperHeroHype: When you were in New York six years ago for "Layer Cake," you were already well into development on the third "X-Men" movie and you had a lot of great ideas that sounded cool, then you left that. And now you're back, so what was the biggest factor in convincing you to do another movie? Was it the story or Bryan Singer's involvement?

Matthew Vaughn: Unfinished business, that's what inspired me. I was totally excited about doing "X3" and basically co-wrote the script with (Simon) Kinberg and Zak Penn. We did that in six days together, and then storyboarded the whole movie, prevised all the big sequences, and then like an idiot, thought that I didn't have enough time to make the film I wanted, so I had to leave. I sort of regretted that ever since, and when Fox rang me up and said, "Do you want a chance to reboot X-Men and put your stamp all over it?" When they told me that, I thought they were joking at first, and then they told me it would happen in the '60s against the Cuban missile crisis as the backdrop, I thought, "God, this sounds cool. Why not? Let's do it."

Hah there you go.

[marvelrobbins]

I see once again I have to point out First Class Is not reboot but part of exsisting series.First Class was not a Batman Begins or Casino Royale reboot.
Many things tied it to Bryan Singer's X-men films(X-Men and X2)

Singer called It a prequel with Liberties.The entire marketing campagin was based on Showing Xavier and Magneto's past as young men.The Blu-ray/DVD
special features connect It to other films.

Many franchises Ignore Dialogue about past.So bringing out the Xavier said In X-Men he was 17 when he meet Magneto doesn't mean anything.

Now Matthew Vaughn and lesser extent Jane Goldman can say different things depending on who they are talking to but some Ignore these comments

Vaughn-In same interview where word reboot Is brought up he confirms First Class Is suspose to be seen before X1.Saying on sequels you have before 2000 or whenever X-Men took place to explore
Goldman-calling First Class an alternate history for the X-Men but we didn't want to go against fully the cannon of the films

Simon Kinberg said First Class was done with Singer's films In Mind.

Singer has talked about connection between films.That and doing Days of future Past story should tell you all you need to know.If first Class was a
reboot 1:There would be more efforts to distance itself from Singer's films when there are tons of things that connect to them 2:Why not have more
familar characters In there

Kinberg himself called It celebration of X-men on film and says X1-3 are In Mind as they are writing the film.

X-Men Origins:Wolverine Is being ignored by everyone.The wolverine Is distincing itself from It.If deapool even happens It has been called reboot
of character,hard for deapool to reboot deadpool and still be considered part of X-Men film series,and noone brings up It In connection to other
X films.

X-Men The Last Stand Is where things get tricky.A good case can be made that Singer,and Vaughn outright Ignore It.Singer and Lauren shueller Donnor
have called First Class prequel to other films but which films?Just Singer's filmsor the entire X trilogy.Forget dialogue here are more troubling things

Beast-In first Class he mutates to recent cat like form but In Last Stand he Is In more classic form.Ok the simple answer Is Vaughn likes the catlike form
better but that Is still leaves a hole.And Vaughn will never have Beast evolve to more classic look.And the cat like look Is evolution of classic Beast
Moira-There Is no way to fit first class and Last Stand versions
Xavier/Magneto-In first Class Xavier Is crippled and Magneto and him go seperate ways.Yet at begining of Last stand set 20 years before trilogy still walking Xavier and Magneto go to see jean as part of recruits kids for school.Xavier Isn't going to regain walking and be cripped again In films.Just like Magneto Isn't go to rejoin Xavier only to break off again.

We are left with 2 films defently connected with first Class(X-Men and X2)1 not(wolverine) and 1 In Limbo(The Last Stand)

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

I see once again I have to point out First Class Is not reboot but part of exsisting series.First Class was not a Batman Begins or Casino Royale reboot.
Many things tied it to Bryan Singer's X-men films(X-Men and X2)

Singer called It a prequel with Liberties.The entire marketing campagin was based on Showing Xavier and Magneto's past as young men.The Blu-ray/DVD
special features connect It to other films.

Many franchises Ignore Dialogue about past.So bringing out the Xavier said In X-Men he was 17 when he meet Magneto doesn't mean anything.

Simon Kinberg said First Class was done with Singer's films In Mind.

........

We are left with 2 films defently connected with first Class(X-Men and X2)1 not(wolverine) and 1 In Limbo(The Last Stand)

If First Class is a prequel to X1, X2 then how can I ignore what Xavier says to Wolverine in X1, bearing in mind they've bumped into each other already and the great psychic that is Xavier forgets that moment too. Am I suppose fast forward that bit in X1 and pretend it never happened?

Regarding Kinbergs comments
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=92542

"It's an interesting thing and I wouldn't know how to define it because we tried to be as respectful as possible in 'First Class' to the 'Singer-verse,' to 'X1-3' really, and there are places where we diverged from that and broke that, but there were other places where we were really respectful to, like even little silly things like the Rebecca Romijn cameo, so we are constructing it with 'X1-3' in mind

I know Bryan Singer left X3 but Kingberg seems to think X3 should be included too - no state of limbo there.

[marvelrobbins]

In X2 the conversation between Xavier and Magneto hints at more knowledge of Wolverine than they told him about.If you know history of Xavier you know he has history of not telling the whole story or even lying to the X-Men.

Many franchises take liberties to what was said In Dialogue about past.Xavier saying he was 17 when he met Magneto Is a mild one.It's a liberty being taken as Bryan Singer said.

There are differences between Singer-verse and X1-3.Singer-verse would mean X-Men,X2,and first Class.

[DigificWriter]

huzzah: I'm not sure what you're trying to disprove with your quote from Vaughn. With Bryan Singer having joined Lauren Shuler Donner as one of the individuals nominally in charge of the X franchise for FOX, it would make sense that he might want to render anything that he was not personally involved with out-of-continuity. He and Vaughn have already done so with Origins: Wolverine and First Class, and they have the perfect opportunity to do so with The Last Stand and Days of Future Past.

I also don't know where you get this idea that Xavier doesn't know anything about Wolverine in X1; yes, he's surprised by the adamantium that was fused to Wolverine's skeleton, but the adamantium isn't what makes Wolverine a mutant; his healing abilities are.

Furthermore, why should Xavier recall a one-off encounter with Wolverine back in the 60s (which would be at least 40 years ago depending on exactly when the first X-Men film is meant to take place in light of the events of First Class), especially one that was not that altogether memorable? He's a genius, but there's no indication of him having a diedactic memory.

[huzzah]

The argument being put forward is that X1 and X2 is in continuity with First Class while X3 and Wolverine are not. I have not seen any information from the directors or producers to confirm this. They've said First Class is a prequel to all the previous films.

So despite the links I have provided, myself and the director/producers are wrong about what they've said over and over again

Ok....if X1 is in continuity with First Class why is Xavier wrong about when he first met Magneto? I've been told Xavier has lied to people in the past. Fair enough. So what's the big deal about telling Wolverine when he first met Eric?

It's so much easier to look at First Class as a reboot of the franchise. Even Fox called Matther Vaughn and told him so.

[X-Maniac]

The very fact that this reboot/prequel discussion keeps surfacing means it wasn't very clear at the end of the day.

And that's why it will be a good idea for DoFP to establish a new continuity.

I would like to hear how Bryan has mentally mapped out the franchise (in loose terms) regarding the events, characters, etc, he would like to introduce.

[chaseter]

How old was Charles in FC? I forget. Did they say?

[marvelrobbins]

First Class Is not I repeat not a reboot of franchise.

SOme are selectivly using quotes and ignoring others.

If First Class was reboot they would have canned The Wolverine film.

First Class has tons of connections to Bryan SInger's films

scene by scene recreating opening scene
Cameos by Hugh Jackman and Rebecca romijn
Mystique makeup design consent with earlier films
Keeping Bryan singer's backstory of Xavier and Magneto working together when Xavier formed the X-men and started work at mansion
Magneto and Mystique's relationship
reference to Stryker

A reboot means nothing that happened before matters

jack Ryan-The Sum of all fears throws up The HUnt for red october,Patroit Games,andClear and present danger.The next film throws out the Sum of all fears
Batman-Batman begins throws up Batman-Batman and Robin.The next film will throw outBatman begins,The dark Knight,and The dark Knight rises
James Bond-Casino Royale throws out Dr No-Die Another day
The Incredible Hulk-Throws out the Hulk
The Punisher-The Punisher:War Zone throws out the Punisher
Spider-Man-The Amazing Spider-Man throws out SPider-Man,Spider-Man 2,and Spider-Man 3
Superman-Man of steel Throws out Superman,Superman 2,and Superman Returns

How can there be celebration of X-men on film(SImon Kinberg's words) and connection between X-Men films(Bryan Singer's words) Is there Is only 1 X-men film that matters before Days of future Past.

The word reboot Is never mentioned once on the DVD/Blu-Ray special features.

In same Interview that Matthew vaughn Vaughn brings out word reboot he also says sequels to first class has between 1962 to 2000 or whenever the first X-Men film took place.

[def28]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

The very fact that this reboot/prequel discussion keeps surfacing means it wasn't very clear at the end of the day.

And that's why it will be a good idea for DoFP to establish a new continuity.

I would like to hear how Bryan has mentally mapped out the franchise (in loose terms) regarding the events, characters, etc, he would like to introduce.

Agreed.

[Asteroid-Man]

I hope we get the X-Men post-X2 coming to the past to prevent a sentinel crisis. Then to those who still want it, X3 holds some merit as an alternate-verse, whereas the outcome of the story is left open for a X3 by Singer/Vaughn.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

First Class Is not I repeat not a reboot of franchise.

SOme are selectivly using quotes and ignoring others.

If First Class was reboot they would have canned The Wolverine film.

First Class has tons of connections to Bryan SInger's films

And yet there are quite a few things that don't connect to the films as well. There is no in-continuity with "liberties." Either it's a reboot or it's not. Of course there's a connection, but more than likely it's an alternate timeline, shifted from the continuity of the other films through some change in events. My bet's on the inclusion of Emma Frost, though I doubt they'll go the route of Emma time-traveling to change things so the events of DoFP don't happen, thus creating the events of FC. Personally though, I would prefer they use the next films to line up with the others, though that seems unlikely as well. This is just looking more and more like a STAR TREK-esqe reboot.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Asteroid-Man

I hope we get the X-Men post-X2 coming to the past to prevent a sentinel crisis. Then to those who still want it, X3 holds some merit as an alternate-verse, whereas the outcome of the story is left open for a X3 by Singer/Vaughn.

Wishful thinking. I doubt they will redo the Phoenix Saga.

And i'm not sure it would be logical for the X-Men to travel back sometime between X2 and X3. Why didn't they mention it in X3?

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Dagenspear

And yet there are quite a few things that don't connect to the films as well. There is no in-continuity with "liberties." Either it's a reboot or it's not. Of course there's a connection, but more than likely it's an alternate timeline, shifted from the continuity of the other films through some change in events. My bet's on the inclusion of Emma Frost, though I doubt they'll go the route of Emma time-traveling to change things so the events of DoFP don't happen, thus creating the events of FC. Personally though, I would prefer they use the next films to line up with the others, though that seems unlikely as well. This is just looking more and more like a STAR TREK-esqe reboot.

There's no doubt this 'pick-and-mix continuity' is creaking under the strain.

I know 'regular' (non-obsessive, non-geeky) viewers who have noticed that the films don't match up regarding Emma Frost and Xavier's disability.

Despite it now looking like X-Men Origins: Wolverine is the 'problem film', everything matched pretty well before First Class came along. And even if XMO: Wolverine is hated and people on here will gladly see it cast out and disregarded, it was the most recent film prior to First Class so it is more prominent in the public's memories.

Ignoring the comics is one thing, but ignoring other films in the same series is another thing altogether.

What's needed now from Singer/Donner/Fox/etc is a structure mapping out the franchise so they know where they are going. This 'one film at a time' approach doesn't work. There should be a rough plan of what will happen, which new characters might come in, what sort of events will happen.

I mean, how would the public react if there was another Nolan Batman film and

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Miranda Tate was somehow suddenly still alive with no acknowledgement of the events in TDKR?

It would be nonsense.

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

What's needed now from Singer/Donner/Fox/etc is a structure mapping out the franchise so they know where they are going. This 'one film at a time' approach doesn't work. There should be a rough plan of what will happen, which new characters might come in, what sort of events will happen.

Superbly put.

My concern with the First Class Sequel is that certain characters who we saw at the end of First Class will just not be in the sequel with no explanation.