Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by def28

Yeah thing is everyone generally liked the changes. Its easier for fans to dismiss the other films and not FC because they didnt like the decisions made in X3 and XMOW.Only thing argued with FC is rather its a a prequel or reboot. The inconsistencies were never confirmed and people argue different takes on if all films are all connected or just a few. But yeah FC is just as responsible, for not having proper connections. New timeline should get rid of all that. FC should be on its own then.

Agreed.

All they need to do to explain the inconsistencies (which go back before the time traveller's arrival, including when Xavier/Erik first met) is say that multiple attempts at a time-jump before it succeeded have put things out of sync. Simple.

The timeline has been scrambled by the attempts to time travel successfully to the 60s. That's the answer.

Then they need to map out the franchise so that they avoid similar inconsistencies in future. Most of the problems seem to occur with fan-nods, cameos, secondary characters and intro/outro sequences.

First Class also headed in that direction by featuring Storm in the Cerebro sequence and including Havok.

[DigificWriter]

The only inconsistency in First Class that I can see with regards to Singer's first film is the age at which Xavier and Magneto first met, which is more of a retcon than an inconsistency.

[marvelrobbins]

2 other poential problems are

1:About cerebro.However Xavier never said he and Magneto created Cerebro only that Magneto helped me built It.That can easily be explaned.Offscreen Magneto helped Xavier rebuild a version of cerebro at the Mansion
2:Magneto's helmet and Xavier I X1 being surprised by It.

with Bryan Singer's talk of connection between films I just don't think they are throwing everything out as some are advocating.Days of future Past Storyline Is about trying to stop a possable future.Star Trek 2009 was about letting J.J. Abrams do whatever he wanted and having the film be part of star Trek Cannon and not pissing off majority of Trek Fans so they would stay away.

[chaseter]

Why are people bending over backwards to try and have XMO: Wolverine be in this continuity? Let's just forget about it. XMOW contradicts things in X1 and X2.

[marvelrobbins]

I certinly am willing to forget It.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

2 other poential problems are

1:About cerebro.However Xavier never said he and Magneto created Cerebro only that Magneto helped me built It.That can easily be explaned.Offscreen Magneto helped Xavier rebuild a version of cerebro at the Mansion
2:Magneto's helmet and Xavier I X1 being surprised by It.

with Bryan Singer's talk of connection between films I just don't think they are throwing everything out as some are advocating.Days of future Past Storyline Is about trying to stop a possable future.Star Trek 2009 was about letting J.J. Abrams do whatever he wanted and having the film be part of star Trek Cannon and not pissing off majority of Trek Fans so they would stay away.

Why would the new Cerebro be built offscreen? At some point we are going to have to see Xavier re-create Cerebro at the mansion and Magneto seems the ideal person to install the structure and all its metal panels.

The helmet thing is harder to explain away. It would imply that X1 was the first time Erik had worn the helmet and that always seemed odd considering Magneto/McKellen's age at that point. I think we are going to have to forget that, though it does make it difficult to watch X1 after watching First Class.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by chaseter

Why are people bending over backwards to try and have XMO: Wolverine be in this continuity? Let's just forget about it. XMOW contradicts things in X1 and X2.

FC contradicts more things.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

2 other poential problems are

1:About cerebro.However Xavier never said he and Magneto created Cerebro only that Magneto helped me built It.That can easily be explaned.Offscreen Magneto helped Xavier rebuild a version of cerebro at the Mansion
2:Magneto's helmet and Xavier I X1 being surprised by It.

with Bryan Singer's talk of connection between films I just don't think they are throwing everything out as some are advocating.

Also Beast. And Storm and Cyclops in the cerebro sequence at age 12-15ish. And I think Shaw as well? And I'm not sure why I should care about Singers "talk." What he says doesn't matter. All that matters is what is. FC speaks for itself. Many things don't line up. Now, that's not to say that there's no connection. But the timeline shift, unless this is all fixed and explained away in the next films, renders the previous films out of this canon.

[Mrs Vimes]

It's probably a less glaring inconsistency and more a matter of style, but I can't really reconcile Raven in First Class with Mystique in the original trilogy. Of course I can believe that her whole personality would change over the years, but it's more the way the character was treated overall in the original trilogy, as a near-mute henchwoman who's there mostly to be a window-dressing, not unlike Emma Frost in First Class (and at least Emma had a bit more speaking lines). To me, after FC, it just makes for a weird viewing if I'm to accept that she's the same character.

[Loganbabe]

Raven's personality change bothers me a lot. She changed in a way that is utterly unbelievable to me. The only solution I can come up with is that Raven in the sequel will be someone torn between the guilty of abandoning Charles (especially when she learns of his new condition) and her desire to follow Magneto's ideals for mutantkind. In the end she'll be so angsty-ridden that she asks Emma to wipe her mind - so that she'll begin a new "mutant and proud" life guilty free. Mystique wins. That would explain certain situations like Mystique poisoning Cerebro or leaving Charles to die at the dam in X2, because it was like she never knew him at all.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by Loganbabe

Raven's personality change bothers me a lot. She changed in a way that is utterly unbelievable to me. The only solution I can come up with is that Raven in the sequel will be someone torn between the guilty of abandoning Charles (especially when she learns of his new condition) and her desire to follow Magneto's ideals for mutantkind. In the end she'll be so angsty-ridden that she asks Emma to wipe her mind - so that she'll begin a new "mutant and proud" life guilty free. Mystique wins. That would explain certain situations like Mystique poisoning Cerebro or leaving Charles to die at the dam in X2, because it was like she never knew him at all.

The poison only incapacitated him, and I don't think they knew the dam was breaking, did they?

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Loganbabe

Raven's personality change bothers me a lot. She changed in a way that is utterly unbelievable to me. The only solution I can come up with is that Raven in the sequel will be someone torn between the guilty of abandoning Charles (especially when she learns of his new condition) and her desire to follow Magneto's ideals for mutantkind. In the end she'll be so angsty-ridden that she asks Emma to wipe her mind - so that she'll begin a new "mutant and proud" life guilty free. Mystique wins. That would explain certain situations like Mystique poisoning Cerebro or leaving Charles to die at the dam in X2, because it was like she never knew him at all.

I never liked Raven's personality from the Singer films anyway. I'm totally happy with the new Raven.

[marvelrobbins]

Originally Posted by Dagenspear

Also Beast. And Storm and Cyclops in the cerebro sequence at age 12-15ish. And I think Shaw as well? And I'm not sure why I should care about Singers "talk." What he says doesn't matter. All that matters is what is. FC speaks for itself. Many things don't line up. Now, that's not to say that there's no connection. But the timeline shift, unless this is all fixed and explained away in the next films, renders the previous films out of this canon.

Singer Is producer and Involved In story what he says matters.

Human looking beast On Tv was easter egg for fans.X-Men The Last Stand Itself Ignored that.Hell X-Men origins:wolerine totally Ignored the way Aklai Lake and Weaon X was In X2.If that was Indeed storm and Cyclops that was an easter egg.There Is plenty to connect first Class to X-men and X2 far more than It connerdicts.

Just like some tried to deny they were doing Days of future past some are trying to deny First Is part of exsisting series.It prequel to X-Men and X2 with liberties taken.

I know some here go along with the consent rebooting studios want to do and think If anything Isn't like brand new It's crap but do people really think they would do reboot that keeps many things from exsisting films?That defeats purpose purpose.First Class was was largely about telling backstory of Singer's version of Xavier and Magneto.why would they reboot the X-men films and move forward with The Wolverine? why would they reboot yet do X-Men film without most of familar characers?Doing days of future Past makes
no sense as second film In rebooted series?

Plus those hoping Days of future Past would render all other X Men films out of exsistance are likely to be disappointed.If they were going to do that why didn't they with first Class?

And people many franchises have history of Ignoring dialogue about past and reconning things

james bond-Sean Connery as James Bon In from Russia with Love talked about being with M In japan yet In You only Live twice says to contact he has never been to Japan before

Star Trek-During Season 1 we are given Inconsent when the show takes place.Plus what group the enterprise was ship of changed during the season.
Star Trek Trek at beging said it took place In 23rd century yet dialogue from Khan suggests It's In the 22rd century.Star Trek First Contact totally reconned the Borg.Plus next generation films had habbit of not being consent with what was established In seres.

Star Wars Prequels-Took liberties to what was said about past In The empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi

The Avengers-Totally conterdicts the post credits scene of Thor

[Loganbabe]

Originally Posted by Dagenspear

The poison only incapacitated him, and I don't think they knew the dam was breaking, did they?

Still, why would she agree so easily to harm in any capacity the man who sheletered her from a life on the streets stealing food, who considered Raven "his sister"? I would say that the poison was dangerous enough that the X-Men were worried if Charles would recover. And the dam...as soon as they learnt that it was breaking, neither Erik nor Raven bothered about leaving Charles there.

It was bad enough that she abandoned Charles injured the way she did. The "but she didn't know he was paralyzed" excuse is an awful one; people wouldn't abandon a dog in that situation, least of all a long-time friend/family.

I hope they can find a good explanation for Mystique totally forgetting/not caring one bit about Charles in the original trilogy.

[marvelrobbins]

She has spent many years with Magneto.She has changed a lotIn that time.Which Is
probally all the explanian your going to get

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Singer Is producer and Involved In story what he says matters.

Human looking beast On Tv was easter egg for fans.X-Men The Last Stand Itself Ignored that.Hell X-Men origins:wolerine totally Ignored the way Aklai Lake and Weaon X was In X2.If that was Indeed storm and Cyclops that was an easter egg.There Is plenty to connect first Class to X-men and X2 far more than It connerdicts.

Just like some tried to deny they were doing Days of future past some are trying to deny First Is part of exsisting series.It prequel to X-Men and X2 with liberties taken.

I know some here go along with the consent rebooting studios want to do and think If anything Isn't like brand new It's crap but do people really think they would do reboot that keeps many things from exsisting films?That defeats purpose purpose.First Class was was largely about telling backstory of Singer's version of Xavier and Magneto.why would they reboot the X-men films and move forward with The Wolverine? why would they reboot yet do X-Men film without most of familar characers?Doing days of future Past makes
no sense as second film In rebooted series?

Plus those hoping Days of future Past would render all other X Men films out of exsistance are likely to be disappointed.If they were going to do that why didn't they with first Class?

And people many franchises have history of Ignoring dialogue about past and reconning things

james bond-Sean Connery as James Bon In from Russia with Love talked about being with M In japan yet In You only Live twice says to contact he has never been to Japan before

Star Trek-During Season 1 we are given Inconsent when the show takes place.Plus what group the enterprise was ship of changed during the season.
Star Trek Trek at beging said it took place In 23rd century yet dialogue from Khan suggests It's In the 22rd century.Star Trek First Contact totally reconned the Borg.Plus next generation films had habbit of not being consent with what was established In seres.

Star Wars Prequels-Took liberties to what was said about past In The empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi

The Avengers-Totally conterdicts the post credits scene of Thor

At the end of the day, I think all most people want is for the franchise to be treated with the care and attention it deserves, including timelines and continuity.

Most of the issues stem from smaller elements that are meant to be Easter eggs for fans. Clearly, they also tend to introduce problems. If XMO: Wolverine had omitted Emma Frost, the final version of Deadpool and Xavier, there wouldn't be a serious problem (it should also have omitted Blob to be honest, as it was a pointless fan nod). If X1 hadn't been so precise with the age of Xavier when he met Magneto (why was that exact age stated? It didn't need to be) then that wouldn't be a problem. If X2 had not had that TV clip with Beast/Shaw, that wouldn't be a problem. And let's not get started on X3. Etc etc.

Less is more. The Wolverine seems to be getting that right by not packing in loads of characters.

I actually don't mind cameo roles and Easter eggs, because I realise we are never going to get the full X-universe on screen (not in my lifetime anyway) but they seem to cause more harm than good in the long term and they can make a film seem cluttered.

First Class has a few issues to deal with. Havok's link to Cyclops. The fact that Angel and Riptide are nothing more than visual frills rather than being of any narrative significance.

Mystique becoming colder and Magneto helping Charles build a new Cerebro could well be portrayed in future films, so those aren't yet a problem.

[Megaton Sun]

I wouldn't mind if they went the 2009 Star Trek route and say that teh events of First Class and Days of the Future Past created a different timeline yet still retaining the original older cast members and key plot elements of the other movies.

In a PERFECT world, the timeline that is X-Men Origins: Wolverine > X-Men > X2 > X-Men: The Last Stand was the original timeline but due to the time travel meddling that occurs in DotFP, certain events happen out of order or certain characters end up being born in different decades.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by Loganbabe

Still, why would she agree so easily to harm in any capacity the man who sheletered her from a life on the streets stealing food, who considered Raven "his sister"? I would say that the poison was dangerous enough that the X-Men were worried if Charles would recover. And the dam...as soon as they learnt that it was breaking, neither Erik nor Raven bothered about leaving Charles there.

But MYSTIQUE knew exactly what the poison was, and would know if it was fatal, and it wasn't, so... yeah, I'd say SHE knew. And, as I asked before, DID THEY KNOW THE DAM WAS BREAKING? I don't remember them discovering that.

And FC itself even sows the seeds of resentment that Raven feels against Charles for him wanting to live in the world no matter how bad it is, and not live with her. Magneto wants that life. And as time goes by, about 40 years, she'll become colder, more ruthless, and she'll leave Charles behind completely, for her new family, her TRUE family: the brotherhood.

[Great Mind(s)]

GUYS it's been what 40 years since First Class and Mystique being with Magneto. Do you really think in 40 years someone wouldn't change? I think it speaks even MORE to the Xavier/Raven friendship when she poisons him in X-Men. It shows how far gone she has gotten under Magneto.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Singer Is producer and Involved In story what he says matters.

No, it doesn't. He isn't in the films telling me these things. Because the films themselves are all that matters. Nothing anyone says outside of them means anything. Hell, if Singer HAS to tell me them at all and I can't just determine them for myself, then he's obviously done a bad job at delivering what he wanted to deliver, and he has no reason for me to listen or respect his opinion or work anyway.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Human looking beast On Tv was easter egg for fans.X-Men The Last Stand Itself Ignored that.

It doesn't matter if it was an easter egg, it happened in the film, so therefore it is the canon of that series. And no, X3 didn't ignore it. Hank was human on the TV in X2, and then, sometime later, he was the Beast in X3. It's even implied that it's happened recently by Storm's line of "I love what you've done with your hair."

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Hell X-Men origins:wolerine totally Ignored the way Aklai Lake and Weaon X was In X2.

I'm sorry, are we counting XMO: W as canon now? I thought you thought of that as being not in continuity. You're starting to contradict yourself now. But, memories are tricky and often **** up. Designs over many years change. Once they lost major funding, I'm sure they had improvise using less-tecnological means.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

If that was Indeed storm and Cyclops that was an easter egg.There Is plenty to connect first Class to X-men and X2 far more than It connerdicts.

Enough to have a few neat nods to the Singer films, but not enough to render it in the same canon. The MAJOR changes are still there. Nods don't change that. And like I said, easter egg, it's the canon of this series.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Just like some tried to deny they were doing Days of future past some are trying to deny First Is part of exsisting series.It prequel to X-Men and X2 with liberties taken.

There are no "liberties." He doesn't get to play fast and loose with the continuity just so he can get his rocks off. It's either in-continuity, or it isn't. There doesn't get to be an in-between. Not for him, not for anybody.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

I know some here go along with the consent rebooting studios want to do and think If anything Isn't like brand new It's crap but do people really think they would do reboot that keeps many things from exsisting films?That defeats purpose purpose.First Class was was largely about telling backstory of Singer's version of Xavier and Magneto.

You shouldn't assume **** that you nothing about. I don't want a reboot, nor do I think it is needed. It's lazy, stupid, and unneccesary. My greatest wish is a FULLY contained X-MEN film universe, with NO reboots AT ALL. However, I'm not naive, or a child, and I see this for what it is.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

why would they reboot the X-men films and move forward with The Wolverine? why would they reboot yet do X-Men film without most of familar characers?Doing days of future Past makes
no sense as second film In rebooted series?

Well, we'll see, won't we? Personally, I want this to fix all the continuity **** ups, but I doubt that will happen. And, why WOULDN'T they reboot Wolverine, if they're also rebooting X-Men? It only makes sense. Why keep them in two seperate continuities?

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Plus those hoping Days of future Past would render all other X Men films out of exsistance are likely to be disappointed.If they were going to do that why didn't they with first Class?

I never said, nor do I want that. And they already have.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

And people many franchises have history of Ignoring dialogue about past and reconning things

People lie. Or have different views on experiences. Easily explained.

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Star Wars Prequels-Took liberties to what was said about past In The empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi

I think we're all forgetting that Obi-Wan Kenobi lies. "Vader killed your father" anyone?

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

The Avengers-Totally conterdicts the post credits scene of Thor

The real answer for this is that Joss Whedon is an idiot who can't keep in line with his continuity, considering he was the one who filmed that post-credits scene in THOR. But, Loki was projecting an influence in Selvig's mind from space. Like he does when communicating with The Other in AVENGERS.

[Loganbabe]

Originally Posted by Dagenspear

But MYSTIQUE knew exactly what the poison was, and would know if it was fatal, and it wasn't, so... yeah, I'd say SHE knew. And, as I asked before, DID THEY KNOW THE DAM WAS BREAKING? I don't remember them discovering that.

If if it wasn't fatal, it hurt him. I guess Charles is just of use to his "friend" to be hurt, then.
And they saw Stryker trying to escape, so it's quite clear that they knew something strange was going on with the dam - and also because they witnessed Cyclops' fight with Jean, and felt the tremors and all.

And FC itself even sows the seeds of resentment that Raven feels against Charles for him wanting to live in the world no matter how bad it is, and not live with her. Magneto wants that life. And as time goes by, about 40 years, she'll become colder, more ruthless, and she'll leave Charles behind completely, for her new family, her TRUE family: the brotherhood.

And she discovered that the Brotherhood was her "family" (and oh, what a great family it was...the guys who murdered a hundred agents AND her friend) over the course of one day? Because I'm talking about First Class here, and the transition from Raven to murderous Mystique kind of started when she left Charles, who had been her only family for more than a decade but was discarded quite easily because of a disagreement (as if families never have disagreements, but you wouldn't abandon one of them dying because you have to follow some "ideal").

What I'm saying that there needs to be some kind of explanation concerning the complete personality change from the Raven of FC to the Mystique of the trilogy. I don't buy this "oh but so many years passed, she was a different person" excuse. The sequel is a good opportunity to show what happened. And also why Charles would still consider Erik his "old friend" after what he did to him.

[Mrs Vimes]

Actually, I think that what makes it hard for me to reconcile Charles/Raven relationship in FC with the original trilogy is not even Mystique's personality (if it can be generously called that because really, she had very little personality to speak of). I think it's fairly plausible that she'd grow cold and hardened and cut off all ties to her pre-Brotherhood past, including Charles. But I find it hard to believe that Charles would also totally forget about her existence - I mean, whatever Mystique had done down the track it can't be any worse than Erik's doings and Charles clearly cares about him still. Basically, it's just glaringly obvious that the original films were made with no thought of Charles/Raven relationship having ever existed.

[DigificWriter]

Charles and Mystique never directly interact in Singer's two films or in The Last Stand, as far as I can remember, so I don't see any issue here.

[Mrs Vimes]

I agree that there's nothing in the original trilogy to directly contradict the relationship, my point is that there's also nothing to support the idea that the relationship ever existed. Fair enough, Charles doesn't interact with Mystique - but he does interact with Erik who Mystique is close to and yet they don't exchange one word about her. Because at the time of making the films, no idea of such relationship existed in the first place, and it shows.

[misjuevos]

Originally Posted by LegendAssemble

No it's not? The Star Wars prequel system made perfect sense and worked (well it worked in that respect, story-wise is a different matter entirely). A sequel to a prequel is just another prequel. It happens after the first prequel, but still leads up to the events of the original.

star wars was numbered by episodes. so bad example their. first movie that came out was called episode IV. the prequels continued by being called episode I, II, III, pretty easy to follow.

but here is a list of the x-men movies
x-men
x2:x-men united
x-men: the last stand
x-men origins: wolverine
x-men first class

see the difference?