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View Poll Results: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?
Yes 37 74.00%
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Maybe 7 14.00%
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:50 PM   #151
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

True. In the comics Mystique is a master at manipulation with her words as well as her power. Shes pretty much an actress herself. She should never be trusted by the audience imo. X2 Mystique is def a better representation of that. They need to find a good transition for FC Mystique to go that route. Even though she went with Mags at the end I think they still need to have something else for the character to get to that point. Cant ignore that side of her for too long.

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Old 10-11-2012, 01:50 AM   #152
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I like my female characters to unapologetically kick ass, but I want them to have some shred of personality and character development as well. As far as I'm concerned Mystique in the original trilogy was a boring blank and giving her a couple of lines that hinted on some troubled past was not anywhere near enough, seriously if you put together all of Mystique's speaking lines from all three original movies they might take up half a page or something. Fighting skills alone do not make a "strong" character, IMO.
She does have a personality. That much is made clear by the fact that she’s labeled a “total b----” on the previous page. The rest of your post seems to be wrapped up in the notion that Mystique’s fighting skills alone are what make her a strong character, which is not what I said, nor do I think is true.

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True. In the comics Mystique is a master at manipulation with her words as well as her power. Shes pretty much an actress herself. She should never be trusted by the audience imo. X2 Mystique is def a better representation of that. They need to find a good transition for FC Mystique to go that route. Even though she went with Mags at the end I think they still need to have something else for the character to get to that point. Cant ignore that side of her for too long.
Maybe. Depending on the outcome of Days of Future Past, they don't necessarily have to do anything. Though, I agree. I would like to see Jennifer's Raven make more of that transition in the sequels.


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Old 10-11-2012, 03:39 AM   #153
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She does have a personality. That much is made clear by the fact that she’s labeled a “total b----” on the previous page.
Well, Toad and Sabertooth were acting like total a-holes but I don't think that makes for a personality either. That's just stock behaviour of a villain's henchman - there's nothing about it that makes up an individual, it's cardboard cutout stuff.

I did think that Mystique was fun to watch - she's of course very striking-looking and her mutation and skills made for some very entertaining scenes. But in terms of actual character, she's as flat as pancake, to me. At the time of the original movies, it didn't really bother me because I just took the character for what she was - but now with the FC interpretation I can't help but look back at the original Mystique through different eyes.

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The rest of your post seems to be wrapped up in the notion that Mystique’s fighting skills alone are what make her a strong character, which is not what I said, nor do I think is true.
I didn't mean to imply that that's what you think, so my bad if it came off that way.


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Old 10-11-2012, 05:21 AM   #154
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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They need to find a good transition for FC Mystique to go that route. Even though she went with Mags at the end I think they still need to have something else for the character to get to that point. Cant ignore that side of her for too long.
Yeah I completely agree with you!

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Old 10-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #155
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

Boy, I opened a can of worms on that one.

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Good. You say it like it's a bad thing, when Mystique acting like a total ***** is what makes her great. I don't need to feel sorry for her mutation. It's nice to watch a strong, unapologetic character, who just happens to be a woman who can kick every bit as much ass as her male counterparts, who's not a sympathy case. The fact that she's played by Rebecca Romijn is an added bonus. God knows I wish Halle Berry's Storm had been as much fun to watch.
Well, it wasn't good for me. A strong, unapologetic character, who just happens to be a woman who can kick every bit as much ass as her male counterparts is one thing, being a total ***** is something else. Sara Conner and Ellen Ripley are the best examples.

And she can kick Wolverine's ass? I don't think so.

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Besides her turning human in X3 I dont see why you would feel sorrow her mutation. Shes all about it having it. They def could have given her more character but Mystique is a sneaky, cunning lethal ***** and thats how she played her. Hope to see Lawerence go that route sooner then later, the relationships with her and the FC crew allow Mystique to have alot more interesting interactions and character now instead of being one note good and bad but she needs to go more lethal and ditch some of the innocence imo.
Right, but not in the beginning. So you liked the Mystique that would poison Charles?

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I think Rogue already had it more than covered with portraying someone as a victim of their mutation.
True.

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It's true that we didn't get much substance from Mystique within the first three films, but the dialogue gave hints ('People like you were the reason i was scared to go to school', 'I don't answer to my slave name') that were a clue to unhappiness in early years.
Yes, true. And that came from X3, which everyone hates.

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I agree it would have been nice to see a bit more and for that reason I don't mind seeing her being fleshed out in the First Class franchise. I think any more of the older, colder Mystique would be boring now and it's nice to get another dimension of the character.
Indeed.


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Old 10-11-2012, 02:49 PM   #156
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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I like my female characters to unapologetically kick ass, but I want them to have some shred of personality and character development as well. As far as I'm concerned Mystique in the original trilogy was a boring blank and giving her a couple of lines that hinted on some troubled past was not anywhere near enough, seriously if you put together all of Mystique's speaking lines from all three original movies they might take up half a page or something. Fighting skills alone do not make a "strong" character, IMO.
This, thank you.

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Old 10-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #157
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They need to find a good transition for FC Mystique to go that route.
I could see the character get darker in the sequel(s) but I think it would be somewhat unrealistic for her to fully turn into a sneaky cunning lethal Mystique in a space of just a few years. And would she have to stop talking too?

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Old 10-11-2012, 05:27 PM   #158
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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I could see the character get darker in the sequel(s) but I think it would be somewhat unrealistic for her to fully turn into a sneaky cunning lethal Mystique in a space of just a few years. And would she have to stop talking too?
Haha Nope, but we should see her manipulate with words because thats part of who Mystique is and why shes works as a great character.
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Right, but not in the beginning. So you liked the Mystique that would poison Charles?
I can appreciate both Mystiques. But the JL version has alot of characteristics that I wouldnt identify with the character in the books at all besides being blue. She is too innocent and safe of a character. Its a different take on her. Like some other posts have said its hard to even see her being a darker character. X2's take is solid, she could have had more lines etc. But I thought they nailed the essence of her for the most part better then FC. And I prefer FC to X2 by quite a bit.


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Old 10-11-2012, 06:13 PM   #159
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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Haha Nope, but we should see her manipulate with words because thats part of who Mystique is and why shes works as a great character.

I can appreciate both Mystiques. But the JL version has alot of characteristics that I wouldnt identify with the character in the books at all besides being blue. She is too innocent and safe of a character. Its a different take on her. Like some other posts have said its hard to even see her being a darker character. X2's take is solid, she could have had more lines etc. But I thought they nailed the essence of her for the most part better then FC. And I prefer FC to X2 by quite a bit.
I agree. The First Class version is naive, insecure - and I can't really see her ever becoming a cold, hard, kick-ass warrior.

She definitely needs to grow as a character in the next film. Better make-up/prosthetics and hair, and perhaps some clothes like in the comic book art above (with the red top and pants), might be good to see. She might be 'mutant and proud' but wanting to walk around totally naked is a bit far, i think; any woman with the power to create any look or outfit would have an amazing time with fashion and personal styling, especially in the style-conscious 60s and 70s!

I do like the version in the 90s animated series for having more dimension.

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Old 10-11-2012, 06:18 PM   #160
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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Yes, true. And that came from X3, which everone hates.
The 'slave name' line came from X3 (where she also said her family tried to kill her). The 'too afraid to go to school' came from X1, when Mystique first reveals herself to Senator Kelly in the helicopter.

Whatever the film those lines were in, they were at least a few crumbs of characterisation to grasp on to. More than we got for Toad, Sabretooth or Deathstryke.

The problem is she went to the opposite extreme in First Class and it's now hard to imagine she could ever become the Mystique of the original trilogy.

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Old 10-11-2012, 07:37 PM   #161
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Well, I think that by the end of FC at least, young!Mystique has made some big strides in getting over her insecurities. And she might be a tad naive, but no one can stay naive or innocent for long hanging around a guy who basically runs a terrorist cell. And even in FC, she already shows that she feels quite bitter about the world that won't accept her, so it's not like she's some happy-go-lucky girl.

But as far as cold hard manipulative b**** characters go, I think that Emma Frost would be the one who could fill that role more naturally, at this time. Now that she doesn't have Shaw to simper around, I hope they allow her to be more assertive.

As far as reconciling FC Mystique with original Mystique goes, it's not that I can't believe that FC Mystique could ever become a cold hard manipulative assassin. It's more that the way the character is handled and presented is so fundamentally different. In the original series, Mystique is little more than a henchwoman - basically a version of what Emma Frost was in FC, except with even less lines. This kind of character usually has a limited role and does not really demand a detailed characterisation or dialogue. In FC, Raven/Mystique is one of the lead characters and lead characters are supposed to be much more fully realised and can't stay virtually mute. So the jarring effect for me is in the way Mystique goes from a lead character in FC to a flat henchwoman character in the original movies.


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Old 10-11-2012, 08:51 PM   #162
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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In the original series, Mystique is little more than a henchwoman - basically a version of what Emma Frost was in FC, except with even less lines. This kind of character usually has a limited role and does not really demand a detailed characterisation or dialogue. In FC, Raven/Mystique is one of the lead characters and lead characters are supposed to be much more fully realised and can't stay virtually mute. So the jarring effect for me is in the way Mystique goes from a lead character in FC to a flat henchwoman character in the original movies.
Its not about minimizing her to a role witht no lines and less screen time. Its taking the dangerous/mysterious side of the character and putting that into the role. To me that makes her far more interesting. The character in FC is not a fully realized Mystique imo, there should be much darker areas of her to explore. Shes missing some important elements. But hey if some prefer one over the other thats all viewer preference. Some like it, others not as much.

Yeah in the films Emma and Mystique do essentially serve the same role with where the movies place them. They are very different though. Also Mystique is brought into this series as being very loyal to Magneto, that cant be lost if they want to keep in continuity. Emma should probably be more on her own terms and not as loyal, Emma shouldnt trust Magneto and Magneto shouldnt trust Emma. But they have yet to set her up that way.


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Old 10-12-2012, 12:00 AM   #163
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Its not about minimizing her to a role witht no lines and less screen time. Its taking the dangerous/mysterious side of the character and putting that into the role. To me that makes her far more interesting. The character in FC is not a fully realized Mystique imo, there should be much darker areas of her to explore. Shes missing some important elements.
For me the crucial difference is that though the FC character may not be a fully realised Mystique, she feels like a fully realised person. Who simply has yet to develop all those dangerous hard qualities in the long course of her drastically new life. As opposed to the original Mystique, who feels less like a person and more like a sketch. I do understand though how some might find her mysterious and intriguing.

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:04 AM   #164
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For me the crucial difference is that though the FC character may not be a fully realised Mystique, she feels like a fully realised person. Who simply has yet to develop all those dangerous hard qualities in the long course of her drastically new life. As opposed to the original Mystique, who feels less like a person and more like a sketch. I do understand though how some might find her mysterious and intriguing.
Definitely, I agree with that. Just dont know 100% if FC was the best take for her, depends where they take her. I wouldnt call X2 Raven a sketch though, she plays her role. Busting Mags out of prison or impersonating political figures weave into the plot of the films pretty heavily. Shes just in more action, which JL got left completely out of. Shes def a more fleshed out character in FC's story while X2 is more in tone with how the character should be portrayed. Mix the two up and it should be a win.


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Old 10-12-2012, 05:26 AM   #165
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She might be 'mutant and proud' but wanting to walk around totally naked is a bit far, i think; any woman with the power to create any look or outfit would have an amazing time with fashion and personal styling, especially in the style-conscious 60s and 70s!
I kinda have a feeling that now that Jennifer Lawrence is a known face, they'll somehow contrive for Mystique to spend as much time in her blond human guise as possible.

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Old 10-12-2012, 06:25 AM   #166
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Well, it wasn't good for me. A strong, unapologetic character, who just happens to be a woman who can kick every bit as much ass as her male counterparts is one thing, being a total ***** is something else. Sara Conner and Ellen Ripley are the best examples.
She can be a total b**** and still be those things, and is, in my opinion.

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And she can kick Wolverine's ass? I don't think so.
Neither can the men who take a beating during Wolverine’s introduction. Neither can Stryker’s soldiers. Neither can Deathstryke. Neither can Magneto’s mutant army. Neither can Blob. Neither can Gambit. Neither can Sabretooth. Neither can Deadpool. So? Does Mystique being stabbed by Wolverine negate other instances of her being able to hold her own? No.

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Well, Toad and Sabertooth were acting like total a-holes but I don't think that makes for a personality either. That's just stock behaviour of a villain's henchman - there's nothing about it that makes up an individual, it's cardboard cutout stuff.
Perhaps, though I think her attitude is simply part of the personality they decided to cultivate for her and not just stock behavior.

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I didn't mean to imply that that's what you think, so my bad if it came off that way.
It's no problem.


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Old 10-12-2012, 08:27 AM   #167
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Rebecca want her back, I do not like Jennifer as Mystique.Rebecca is the real character.
Ms. Romijn is a diva,Jennifer is a girl who is fashionable.I do not want it


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Old 10-12-2012, 08:30 AM   #168
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

all this Mystique discussion....

isnt there a Mystique official thread on the board? Lol

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Old 10-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #169
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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She can be a total b**** and still be those things, and is, in my opinion.
You're right, but she wasn't portrayed that way in the first three films. You need a good balance of both for it work.

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Neither can the men who take a beating during Wolverine’s introduction. Neither can Stryker’s soldiers. Neither can Deathstryke. Neither can Magneto’s mutant army. Neither can Blob. Neither can Gambit. Neither can Sabretooth. Neither can Deadpool. So? Does Mystique being stabbed by Wolverine negate other instances of her being able to hold her own? No.


Most all the people you just named could put up a fight against him and maybe even get the best of him. They are all formidable enemies from the comics who have solid fighting skills. Mystique is not know for that and she kicked his ass all over the place in X-Men.

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Rebecca want her back, I do not like Jennifer as Mystique.Rebecca is the real character.
Ms. Romijn is a diva,Jennifer is a girl who is fashionable.I do not want it.
No, Jennifer is real actress. As much as I like Rebecca she's not a real actress, she got the role because she could look the part and just happened to have some acting skill.

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Old 10-12-2012, 06:24 PM   #170
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No, Jennifer is real actress. As much as I like Rebecca she's not a real actress, she got the role because she could look the part and just happened to have some acting skill.
That's not true,she has a good career in film and tv,and the important thing is that thanks to her role in X-Men has made ​​people fall in love with her character. Jennifer is a young girl who works well, but is a typical teenager who has little charisma as Raven.

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Old 10-16-2012, 03:42 AM   #171
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I'm proably very late with the point, so apologies if it's already been pointed out, but does anyone else think they gona do a reboot like star trek (2009) making it easier to not have to stick to the other timeline? it would certainly clear up alot of things, just ashame they'd be re writing the first two movies. But i bet Jackman pops up as old man Logan!

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:33 AM   #172
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Default Re: Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

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That's not true,she has a good career in film and tv,and the important thing is that thanks to her role in X-Men has made ​​people fall in love with her character. Jennifer is a young girl who works well, but is a typical teenager who has little charisma as Raven.
What career are you talking about? Rebecca was hot from 2000 to 2006, which she can thank Bryan Singer for. What has she done recently?
I like her as much as the next guy, but she's not an actress, she's a model with some acting ability.

So Jennifer works well, but has little charisma as Raven? That doesn't really make sense. And she's not a "typical teenager", she's a 22 year old woman.

Here's the real difference... Rebecca is a beautiful woman who just happens to be able to act. Jennifer is an actress who just happens to be beautiful. In terms of performance and age, I'll take Jennifer.

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