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Old 08-14-2012, 08:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72
More than any other core member of the Avengers, Ant-Man needs "testing out". Heck, I'm a fan and Im not convinced at all that the character will work within the MCU/Avengers dynamic. Or that, absent his personal melodrama, he will bring anything to the team. They already have two resident geniuses after all.
Three if you count Hammer, who could create Ultron in case Ant-Man bombs.

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Old 08-14-2012, 09:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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More than any other core member of the Avengers, Ant-Man needs "testing out". Heck, I'm a fan and Im not convinced at all that the character will work within the MCU/Avengers dynamic. Or that, absent his personal melodrama, he will bring anything to the team. They already have two resident geniuses after all.

I definitely dont have any interest in spending TA2 screen time on Hank Pym's person problems, which is an issue since this is largely what makes him interesting.
His self-destruction IS what he brings to the team. It's a character arc that almost no other relevant superhero can claim, and it's one of the very few iconic arcs the Avengers have in their back catalog.

They've been through this same push with every character, from movie to movie- Iron Man won't work on film; a Norse God can not stand next to Iron Man, audiences will laugh it off; Captain America is too cheesy and old school to be relevant; why add Hulk to the Avengers when both of his movies failed?; this new superhero's power is a BOW & ARROW?!?!?

If they're making an Ant-Man movie, they clearly believe in the character. And if you looked at the Blu Ray sales of the solo movies after Avengers came out, and the merchandise sales for even characters like Loki and Hawkeye, it's pretty clear that taking these classic Avengers characters and putting them in the Avengers movies is not the worst idea

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

Thor, Captain America and the Hulk were household names, even to those who had never seen a cartoon, tv show or comic book. Ant-Man is, to the general public, a nobody.

Im not against Pym or Ultron playing some part in a future movie, but adding him to the team in TA2 is just one of several options.

If you want to give him screen time on par with Hawkeye's in TA, thats fine. Since they're both B-listers, that would actually make sense. But i dont see anyone clamoring for Ant-Man and his "issues" taking up a large chunk of TA2. No way that happens.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

Well obviously the stars should and will remain the big four. Every character being discussed in any of these threads would have a supporting role

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

I'd have no issue if they switch Ultron over to Tony's biggest failure, sending him on a downward spiral that takes queues from Demon In A Bottle.

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Old 08-14-2012, 11:11 PM   #31
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Please, spare the comparison between Ant-Man and Spider-Man. Spidey doesn't shrink and talk to spiders. Thank you.
On the other side of the coin: Spidey doesn't grow to the size of Godzilla and go curb-stomping and skyscraper-crunching through Manhattan, either. Thank you.

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Totally different. Without Thor and Cap there is no Avengers period. Instead you wouldve had a buddy movie with IM and the Hulk. Outside of CB nerds (like myself), no one knows who theh hell Hank Pym is and therefore wont miss him.

Im okay with Pym being in an Avengers movie, but there is absolutely no reason to throw him in there before theyve completely tested out the character in a solo movie. By the time the first weekend BO numbers start to come in on Ant-Man, it will be far too late to add him to the movie. Pym is not the same as Cap or Thor or any of the other better known characters. They'll wait and see, as they should. Ill be shocked if they dont.

And comparing Spidey to Ant-Man is ridiculous. For the above reason as well as the fact that Spidey is the most popular superhero in the world next to Batman. And even that is debatable. (Supes might be the most well-known, but not the most popular).

Now if Whedon happens to love the Ant-Man character, maybe he will throw him in there anyway. I just dont see that happening.
If box office was any kind of golden ticket to join the Avengers, then the Hulk's ticket would have never been punched. In B.O., Hulk movies (both Norton's and Ang's) have been by far the weakest link. And yet Whedon and Feige wanted him anyway, and thank god they did.

Does it matter whether or not audiences have heard of Ant-Man? Hell, no. Now that the "Big Four" (IM, Cap, Thor, Hulk) have had their solo spotlights, EVERY MCU character from here on out is an unknown quantity to general audiences. Ant-Man, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, the GOTG, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Ms. Marvel, anybody you care to list.

But if Ant-Man releases in 2014, as seems to be the current target, then everyone WILL know who he is, even if the solo movie bombs.

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Old 08-15-2012, 12:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

Is Ant-Man a risk? Absolutely.

Then again, I don't think Jason Bourne was a household name at the time when those movies started coming out and they seemed to do alright.

Will it hit the number that the Iron Man movies hit? Probably not. But with the right marketing, it could do just fine for itself.

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Old 08-15-2012, 12:27 PM   #33
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I'd have no issue if they switch Ultron over to Tony's biggest failure, sending him on a downward spiral that takes queues from Demon In A Bottle.
They aren't going to have one of their star character's lives completely unravel into nothing. That's why Pym is perfect as an Avengers supporting character

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Old 08-15-2012, 03:02 PM   #34
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O_O

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too funny lol

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Old 08-16-2012, 02:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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This post depresses me so very much.


Anyways, I think the problem with Ant-Man would be solved if they simply called him Giant-Man.
Dude no one is going to call him anything but "Pym." Go rewatch the MCU and tell me how many times Stark is called "Iron Man."

"Iron Man, you know that's a one way trip."

"Iron Man, you've just become part of a bigger universe..."

nope.

Anyway, Edgar Wright does awkward comedies. If that's what Ant-Man ends up being, so be it. In my opinion everything Edgar Wright has made is a riot. I'm excited.

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:20 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Is Ant-Man a risk? Absolutely.

Then again, I don't think Jason Bourne was a household name at the time when those movies started coming out and they seemed to do alright.

Will it hit the number that the Iron Man movies hit? Probably not. But with the right marketing, it could do just fine for itself.
Exactly.
I'm dreading the
"LOL, Ant Man sounds like a stupid Bat Man".

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:52 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

Oh, I would expect more comparisons drawn between Ant-Man and Spider-Man, but yeah.

There is certainly a challenge ahead of anyone who has to market this film. During SDCC the local news was talking about the movies that Marvel announced and they seemed pretty positive about all of them and then they got to Ant-Man...and they just really didn't know what to make of it.

But like I said before, with the right marketing, it should do just fine.

With Edgar Wright behind the project I certainly expect we will be seeing some serious tongue-in-cheek humor. Really, to try and make Ant-Man a movie that takes itself really seriously would (most likely) be cinematic suicide anyway, so I think Wright will probably touch on the fact that it's a bit absurd. One of those "Well, I'm going to make fun of myself before you can make fun of me" type things.

I wouldn't mind seeing a teaser that goes something like this:

- A panning shot of Iron Man's armor...
- The Marvel 'Comic Pages' Logo
- A panning shot of Captain America's shield...
- 'From the director of 'Shaun of the Dead' and 'Hot Fuzz'...'
- A panning shot of Mjolnir...
- 'And the producers of 'The Avengers'...'
- A panning shot of Ant-Man's helmet, which is grabbed off a display half-way through the shot...
- Flashes of light as we get a sinking shot. The camera lowers and we get the effect that everything in the room is getting bigger. Perhaps even show a stunned Janet Van Dyne...
- Cut to black. Slow fade 'Ant-Man'.
- Cut to: A group of three masked men are holding a group of civilians at gun-point. Suddenly there's a loud SMACK and one goes tumbling to the floor. The other two, confused, look at their fallen teammate. Then we see a small dot bounce between the two, each time it lands there is another SMACK. Seemingly this "dot" is knocking these guys around. They are quickly incapacitated.
- Cut to black. Slow fade 'Kicking Ass. One Inch At A Time.'
- Fade to the date of release and what-not.


Just a rough idea of how I think they could market this film. I know I stole that tag-line from someone's signature. I just like it so much and I think it really would work for the movie and Edgar Wright's style.

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Old 08-16-2012, 11:15 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

Ant Man could work, but would really need to be marketed more as a comedy or romantic comedy for it to be commercially viable.

I would still prefer to see Pym and Van Dyne being introduced within an Avengers movie, though.

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Old 08-16-2012, 05:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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His self-destruction IS what he brings to the team. It's a character arc that almost no other relevant superhero can claim, and it's one of the very few iconic arcs the Avengers have in their back catalog.
Not a fan of the Avengers huh? I can think of a dozen great/ iconic Avengers arcs myself.

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2017: Thor 3, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Inhumans
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2019: Iron Man 4, Doctor Strange 2, Ms. Marvel

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Old 08-16-2012, 05:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

I didn't say one of the few good Avengers arcs, iconic is an entirely different story. Ask anyone to name 5 Avengers arcs and most will give you the same answers, and Pym/Ultron will be one of them

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Old 08-16-2012, 05:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Originally Posted by catintheengine View Post
Oh, I would expect more comparisons drawn between Ant-Man and Spider-Man, but yeah.

There is certainly a challenge ahead of anyone who has to market this film. During SDCC the local news was talking about the movies that Marvel announced and they seemed pretty positive about all of them and then they got to Ant-Man...and they just really didn't know what to make of it.

But like I said before, with the right marketing, it should do just fine.

With Edgar Wright behind the project I certainly expect we will be seeing some serious tongue-in-cheek humor. Really, to try and make Ant-Man a movie that takes itself really seriously would (most likely) be cinematic suicide anyway, so I think Wright will probably touch on the fact that it's a bit absurd. One of those "Well, I'm going to make fun of myself before you can make fun of me" type things.

I wouldn't mind seeing a teaser that goes something like this:

- A panning shot of Iron Man's armor...
- The Marvel 'Comic Pages' Logo
- A panning shot of Captain America's shield...
- 'From the director of 'Shaun of the Dead' and 'Hot Fuzz'...'
- A panning shot of Mjolnir...
- 'And the producers of 'The Avengers'...'
- A panning shot of Ant-Man's helmet, which is grabbed off a display half-way through the shot...
- Flashes of light as we get a sinking shot. The camera lowers and we get the effect that everything in the room is getting bigger. Perhaps even show a stunned Janet Van Dyne...
- Cut to black. Slow fade 'Ant-Man'.
- Cut to: A group of three masked men are holding a group of civilians at gun-point. Suddenly there's a loud SMACK and one goes tumbling to the floor. The other two, confused, look at their fallen teammate. Then we see a small dot bounce between the two, each time it lands there is another SMACK. Seemingly this "dot" is knocking these guys around. They are quickly incapacitated.
- Cut to black. Slow fade 'Kicking Ass. One Inch At A Time.'
- Fade to the date of release and what-not.


Just a rough idea of how I think they could market this film. I know I stole that tag-line from someone's signature. I just like it so much and I think it really would work for the movie and Edgar Wright's style.

I think it was Edgar Wright himself that originally said "kicking ass one inch at a time."

Now if you had mentioned "Size Fu" or "Size Fu related merchandise" then youd be infringing upon someones signature. And i'd be one of the witnesses in the ensuing lawsuit.

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Old 08-16-2012, 06:47 PM   #42
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Totally different. Without Thor and Cap there is no Avengers period. Instead you wouldve had a buddy movie with IM and the Hulk. Outside of CB nerds (like myself), no one knows who theh hell Hank Pym is and therefore wont miss him.

Im okay with Pym being in an Avengers movie, but there is absolutely no reason to throw him in there before theyve completely tested out the character in a solo movie. By the time the first weekend BO numbers start to come in on Ant-Man, it will be far too late to add him to the movie. Pym is not the same as Cap or Thor or any of the other better known characters. They'll wait and see, as they should. Ill be shocked if they dont.

And comparing Spidey to Ant-Man is ridiculous. For the above reason as well as the fact that Spidey is the most popular superhero in the world next to Batman. And even that is debatable. (Supes might be the most well-known, but not the most popular).

Now if Whedon happens to love the Ant-Man character, maybe he will throw him in there anyway. I just dont see that happening.
I am sorry, but I can't wrap my head around this logic. It sorta seems like you are reaching for a point

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Old 08-16-2012, 06:52 PM   #43
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Dude no one is going to call him anything but "Pym." Go rewatch the MCU and tell me how many times Stark is called "Iron Man."

"Iron Man, you know that's a one way trip."

"Iron Man, you've just become part of a bigger universe..."

nope.

Anyway, Edgar Wright does awkward comedies. If that's what Ant-Man ends up being, so be it. In my opinion everything Edgar Wright has made is a riot. I'm excited.
True. Though Captain America has actually been referred to as Cap, or Captain

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I didn't say one of the few good Avengers arcs, iconic is an entirely different story. Ask anyone to name 5 Avengers arcs and most will give you the same answers, and Pym/Ultron will be one of them
This. With antman/pym, sooner or later we will get somewhat of the whole Pym/Ultron arc. Hopefully in Avengers 2. Makes more sense. Pym/antman/giantman is introduced, and Ultron develops through avengers 2.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #44
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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Totally different. Without Thor and Cap there is no Avengers period. Instead you wouldve had a buddy movie with IM and the Hulk. Outside of CB nerds (like myself), no one knows who theh hell Hank Pym is and therefore wont miss him.

Im okay with Pym being in an Avengers movie, but there is absolutely no reason to throw him in there before theyve completely tested out the character in a solo movie. By the time the first weekend BO numbers start to come in on Ant-Man, it will be far too late to add him to the movie. Pym is not the same as Cap or Thor or any of the other better known characters. They'll wait and see, as they should. Ill be shocked if they dont.

And comparing Spidey to Ant-Man is ridiculous. For the above reason as well as the fact that Spidey is the most popular superhero in the world next to Batman. And even that is debatable. (Supes might be the most well-known, but not the most popular).

Now if Whedon happens to love the Ant-Man character, maybe he will throw him in there anyway. I just dont see that happening.
prior to the MCU, Thor's popularity (as a comic book/superhero) was on exactly the same level as Ant-Man.

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True. Though Captain America has actually been referred to as Cap, or Captain


This. With antman/pym, sooner or later we will get somewhat of the whole Pym/Ultron arc. Hopefully in Avengers 2. Makes more sense. Pym/antman/giantman is introduced, and Ultron develops through avengers 2.
as a derivative of Captain Rogers more likely.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

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prior to the MCU, Thor's popularity (as a comic book/superhero) was on exactly the same level as Ant-Man.

Total ********.

Thor had his own on-going for 50 years straight; Ant-Man hasn't been able to get past Minis. Thor has had multiple action figures, video game appearances, appears on coffee mugs, t-shirts etc along side other Marvel Heroes. Pym has never had that luxury.

Saying Thor and Ant-Man are the same level of popularity is like saying Aquaman and The Atom are at the same level; neither is top tier, but one is definitely more recognized and popular.

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2017: Thor 3, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Inhumans
2018: Avengers 3, Black Panther, Incredible Hulk 2
2019: Iron Man 4, Doctor Strange 2, Ms. Marvel

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:37 PM   #46
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Right, basing a superhero around a bug is a terrible idea. Laughable, really. No one will ever buy into it


Btw, I like Kamen Riders.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:40 PM   #47
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

same level. level being "known by fans of comic books and unknown by everyone else."

AGH. I wish this argument was actually debatable. I'd've loved to say to you, "go ask your neighbor's mom who Thor is." I'm sure they'll tell you, "the Norse god of thunder."

And they'd be right, but unfortunately it would prove you wrong. Much like the follow up question, "Can you tell me who Ant-Man is?" and she says "A guy who talks to ants?" DING DING DING! WELL DONE LADY!

This discussion is stupid.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:41 PM   #48
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Total ********.

Thor had his own on-going for 50 years straight; Ant-Man hasn't been able to get past Minis. Thor has had multiple action figures, video game appearances, appears on coffee mugs, t-shirts etc along side other Marvel Heroes. Pym has never had that luxury.

Saying Thor and Ant-Man are the same level of popularity is like saying Aquaman and The Atom are at the same level; neither is top tier, but one is definitely more recognized and popular.
I have to agree. Thor has had enjoyed a much wider popularity than Ant-Man even before his first movie, and Dr. Pym is often more well-known for his creation of Ultron than any other storyline. In fact, aside from Ultron you'd be hard-pressed to name another villain for Pym, and Ultron is more of an Avengers enemy than exclusively Pym's. If they have Ant-Man before TA2, then they must have Ultron in the sequel, otherwise there is no reason to put out Ant-Man in Phase II at all.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:41 PM   #49
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Btw, I like Kamen Riders.
Big Bad Beetleborgs


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Old 08-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #50
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Default Re: Is Ant Man even going to be in Avengers 2?

Plus Thor has had like a 1500 year head start as a cultural icon. And stuff.

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