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Old 08-25-2012, 04:59 PM   #51
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

It would be a huge waste if this show, along withGreen Lantern, from the looks of it, is not renewed. It hasn't even been a year since those two helped build the block, and to be replacing them this quick is really odd.

I mean, DC Nation is still a lot better than Marvel's pitiful attempt for a programming block and all, but it does strike me as weird.

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I can say the biggest difference between this show [YOUNG JUSTICE] and "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is showcased in one detail; this show expects their audience to know who H.G. Welles is, while "USM" assumes kids have never done anything but play video games in their room or watch MTV.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:57 PM   #52
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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It would be a huge waste if this show, along withGreen Lantern, from the looks of it, is not renewed. It hasn't even been a year since those two helped build the block, and to be replacing them this quick is really odd.

I mean, DC Nation is still a lot better than Marvel's pitiful attempt for a programming block and all, but it does strike me as weird.
Both "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES" and "YOUNG JUSTICE" had some trade offs for their second seasons, haven't they? "A:EMH" got a full 26 episode second season, but Jeph Loeb & Man Of Action influenced/wrote half of it. "YJ" got a second season, but it was 6 episodes shorter than the last. And once that show is due, the odds of something being above average emerging is low. My expectations are not high for "BEWARE THE BATMAN" and the Loeb/MOA era of Marvel Animation doesn't look dazzling.

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Old 08-26-2012, 12:40 AM   #53
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Both "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES" and "YOUNG JUSTICE" had some trade offs for their second seasons, haven't they? "A:EMH" got a full 26 episode second season, but Jeph Loeb & Man Of Action influenced/wrote half of it. "YJ" got a second season, but it was 6 episodes shorter than the last. And once that show is due, the odds of something being above average emerging is low. My expectations are not high for "BEWARE THE BATMAN" and the Loeb/MOA era of Marvel Animation doesn't look dazzling.
I'm kinda excited about Beware the Batman, actually. I like the crew working on it, I liked the CGI and style used on it (you know, beyond the concept art first shown), and I like the idea of a greater focus on Batman's detective activities, as well as his vulnerability and consequences of his crime-fighting, and the focus on obscure villains. While it does have some things against it (gun-toting Alfred, the recent censorship scandal, and most importantly, ANOTHER Batman show), I'm looking forward to it.

I do find Teen Titans Go! to be really unnecessary. It's ticking off people that wanted OTHER series instead, people that didn't like TT in the first place, AND TT fans that wanted a continuation of sorts for the show. No one wins. And I shouldn't even have to say how much I'm dreading Loeb's management of Marvel Animation.

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I can say the biggest difference between this show [YOUNG JUSTICE] and "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is showcased in one detail; this show expects their audience to know who H.G. Welles is, while "USM" assumes kids have never done anything but play video games in their room or watch MTV.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:59 AM   #54
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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I'm kinda excited about Beware the Batman, actually. I like the crew working on it, I liked the CGI and style used on it (you know, beyond the concept art first shown), and I like the idea of a greater focus on Batman's detective activities, as well as his vulnerability and consequences of his crime-fighting, and the focus on obscure villains. While it does have some things against it (gun-toting Alfred, the recent censorship scandal, and most importantly, ANOTHER Batman show), I'm looking forward to it.

I do find Teen Titans Go! to be really unnecessary. It's ticking off people that wanted OTHER series instead, people that didn't like TT in the first place, AND TT fans that wanted a continuation of sorts for the show. No one wins. And I shouldn't even have to say how much I'm dreading Loeb's management of Marvel Animation.
"BEWARE THE BATMAN" seems to be an admission that they've done so many Batman shows that they're scraping the bottom of the barrel and are doing to show just to include loser villains like Anarky or Magpie who never got animated (for good reason). It feels more like corporate inertia more than something which feels fresh or organic; there MUST be a new Batman show because a film came out this year and it's been a whopping season or so since the last one ended. That and I feel I'd rather have seen Cass Cain in the role as sidekick over Katana, someone who may have been Batman's teammate in the Outsiders but who has never been a sidekick of his before. Again, it just seems like the producers had the task of creating ANY Batman show and they just decided to do what hadn't been done before - which wasn't much. Hey, we've never seen Alfred tote guns before, let's do that.

You have a point about "TTG!" not pleasing anyone, but the shorts had to do well enough to get an extension. It isn't my bag, though.

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Old 08-26-2012, 02:34 AM   #55
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and are doing to show just to include loser villains like Anarky or Magpie who never got animated (for good reason).
With that logic, though, we would have never gotten guys like Riddler, Penguin, and Mr. Freeze to go beyond obscurity. They did say they are revamping a bunch of these guys, and other than toning down Pyg, I don't see the harm in this.

If I'm wrong about this, though, I will happily eat crow.

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It feels more like corporate inertia more than something which feels fresh or organic; there MUST be a new Batman show because a film came out this year and it's been a whopping season or so since the last one ended.
Can't disagree with that.

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That and I feel I'd rather have seen Cass Cain in the role as sidekick over Katana, someone who may have been Batman's teammate in the Outsiders but who has never been a sidekick of his before.
If this does end up leading to a "Batman and the Outsiders" situation like it was hinted in SDCC, then I will be less disappointed about that. Though the pitch for the No Man's Land series sounded more appealing, one of the reasons being Cass Cain in the roster.

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You have a point about "TTG!" not pleasing anyone, but the shorts had to do well enough to get an extension. It isn't my bag, though.
I had no problem with the TT shorts. But all the other shorts would make for better, more interesting shows. Plastic Man would make for a hilarious comedic show. Ditto for Animal Man and SBBF. And what I've seen of the Doom Patrol shorts is gorgeous, and would make for a great, serious cartoon.

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I can say the biggest difference between this show [YOUNG JUSTICE] and "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is showcased in one detail; this show expects their audience to know who H.G. Welles is, while "USM" assumes kids have never done anything but play video games in their room or watch MTV.
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:49 AM   #56
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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I considered it a bad sign when the San Diego Comic Con, the BIGGEST platform for alternate comic book media and adaptations such as games, films, and TV came and went without a 3rd season announcement. Sure, we did get the teaser reel for the rest of Season 2, which given production and CN's airing schedule will likely run until early 2013. But that would have seemed the best place to announce it.

It is the end of August. If CN wanted a third season premiere ready by Fall 2013 they really do need to approve it now, and even that would be a very tight schedule. I suppose there is still the New York Comic Con in October to make such an announcement although even that is slim.

DC Nation is committing to two new shows, "BEWARE THE BATMAN" and "SUPER DEFORMED TEEN TITANS" (known in the states as "TEEN TITANS GO!") getting a half hour segment. Unless the block stretches beyond an hour I don't see how a third season of YJ fits. The irony is the show pre-dated DC Nation by a season, and helped set the ground work for it.
They could theoretically have two different blocks that run consecutively. You have the Young Justice/Green Lantern block and then the Beware the Batman/Teen Titans block. Would allow for close to year round programming. AT least that is what I am hoping for.

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Old 08-26-2012, 06:10 AM   #57
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

I mean I wasn't thrilled by any GL stuff I saw, I never liked TT in the first place and BTB looks and sound awful. YJ was pretty much the only thing I saw worth watching.

It wouldn't kill them to have the two blocks. Switch it alternate weeks and like it's been said you got year round programing. That's surely better than the massive gaps they got going on just now.

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Old 08-26-2012, 08:23 AM   #58
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

I still feel if we are getting more yj/gl. They just take a hiatus to they get a chunck of a another season ready. And at this time dc nation block goes with the tt go/batmqn show. And like I said before do a rotating block when one show is on break the other returns.

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Old 08-26-2012, 11:59 AM   #59
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I still feel if we are getting more yj/gl. They just take a hiatus to they get a chunck of a another season ready. And at this time dc nation block goes with the tt go/batmqn show. And like I said before do a rotating block when one show is on break the other returns.
Yep, that is exactly what I am hoping for.

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Old 08-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #60
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I might agree if similar and consistent methods to "humanize" the other characters happened, but they don't to the same degree or regularity. Even "BLOODLINES" spent a great deal of time cementing how lousy a speedster Wally was in their attempt to spiff up Impulse. Was that really necessary?
If his arc this season is feeling insecure about living up to the pedigree of other speedsters then yes it is necessary. As THAT would actually heightened the emotional context of that arc.

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I was stating that I could guess Kid-Flash would trip or otherwise goof up at a critical juncture with his speed powers and be right 55% of the time (give or take). You and I likely have different measures of "critical".
Obviously. Wally rarely tripped or goofed up in the second half of the season.

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It's grounds for becoming frustrated with a character and how they are handled.
Sure, but saying things like, "You know what ***** it, JLU had the best take on Wally West." just because you didn't like what you first saw in Bloodlines (without even taking anything into account based on context, of where it might be going. Wally becoming the Flash, is about as obvious a path as to where they are going with him as Dick becoming Nightwing.

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Now you're reaching.
How so? You can prove to me that he asked for her help, you CAN'T prove to me that he needed it. For all you know, he might've just asked for her help just because THAT would've taken less time than him getting out of it.

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It was a similar example. I have seen tactics like that done in movies or anime sometimes.
Getting tied up (not life threatening) and getting impaled (life threatening) are 2 way different things.

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It can be a big deal and I'm not the only one who feels that way. In commentaries for the first season of "JUSTICE LEAGUE", Bruce Timm and some of the writers answered criticisms for why Superman seemed "weak" in that season. They stated that they had been used to writing Superman in his own show, where he naturally would have to be physically challenged before prevailing in the end. Because team shows were new to them, they wrote Superman in a similar manner only they often gave other characters the prevailing move. Thus to the viewer it often seemed as if Superman was a bit lackluster. It was something Timm acknowledged as a misstep and stated they worked harder to improve upon with Season 2 onward, when the writing overall improved.
Being in action was the only characterization Superman had going on in season 1, it's all viewers were given. So when he's portrayed as not terribly good in that department of course that's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

In "The Batman's" season 5 premiere we saw him taking alot of punishment from the villains. But we also saw other facets to him, like his Clark Kent persona, him being reluctant to join the justice league. That by the time the episode ended, people didn't make a big deal about Supes getting smacked around since there was more to him there than being in action.

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The season premiere made one feel as if they'd skipped over a season between. It was 3 episodes before there was any word about Kaldur and four before any word of Wally or Artemis.
And look how long it took for you to eat your words. Especially after you assumed the worst based on your Alienated review. Sure you made a passing mention about Kaldur possibly being undercover, but it didn't stop you from whining about how you feel you missed something, instead of maybe WAITING and see what future episodes reveal.

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I'm not, because Wally always has those less than fantastic moments in comparison to Grayson or Superboy because it "humanizes" him.
Obviously we have different tastes on what qualifies as fantastic. Just because he didn't get as much screen time doesn't make him a less interesting character.

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I guess that was why I could never get into Batman because I never saw him run into a ****ing door.
Apparently someone forgot about how simple petty thugs gave Batman more trouble than they should have in TAS (like in Riddler's debut episode). Compare THAT to him later in the DCAU?

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I doubt Barry Allen is dying this season
What makes you think THAT? I certainly wouldn't put money on him being alive later in the season. Especially since Impulse went back in time to save Barry. My gut tells me that's not the last time he's going to be at deaths door. And perhaps the future STILL had him dying.

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I doubt Wally will have much of his own subplot beyond piggy backing the subplots of Artemis or Impulse to a degree. That isn't to say those can't be decent to watch, but those two clearly have their own subplots to chase.
And what makes you think he won't have his own subplot that gets revealed by say episode 8 or 9? The show's gone out of its way to give the other 5 members their own subplots for this season, I doubt they would leave Wally out in the dust.

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So, believing a character is a supporting character because they served that role for a previous season is wrong. Hmm.
Well I never thought he was a supporting character on the show. Just one of many in many main characters in the shows main ensemble.

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You really count that rooftop scene in "SALVAGE" for Wally? He's just there to support Roy and Nightwing. While Artemis has an episode which mostly revolves around her and where she's going this season ("DEPTHS"), Wally's "BLOODLINES" is spent with him basically forced to play second fiddle to Impulse, who gets introduced at his expense to replace him on "the team".
Why not? The show felt it was more important for us to see him first instead of Artemis.
And you know him having problems with Bart being faster than him in Bloodlines won't be a big deal for Wally later on how? Everyone and their mother seems to get that on sites like this. I'm sorry if his arc hasn't been made obvious to you at the very first second you get. I see Bloodlines being a big deal for Barry, Wally, and Bart in the long run.

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Artemis has shown she doesn't need Wally to have her own episodes or strong storylines. Wally hasn't shown that quality and I don't think he will.
Sure he has, neither Denial (I'm ignoring how you feel about said episode for the sake of argument) nor Coldhearted NEEDED her to be involved in them. Artemis was just a dangling subplot for those episodes.

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Impulse's future storyline is more weighty to the season as a whole (as all time travelers tend to be).
And Bart's reason for going back revolves around Flash.

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The bottom line is the show has never really handled a subplot for Wally that didn't rely exclusively on Artemis and I am not expecting it to start now.
And the show never tackled an arc of Aqualad's that DIDN'T revolve around him being team leader in season 1, look how long it took for that to change.

Besides, how do you know Artemis's decision to go through with this doesn't revolve around Wally?

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He's probably not going to play as equal a role in the "conspiracy" angle as Artemis, Aqualad or Nightwing because he's not in that position.
At least not yet. Hell until episode 7, neither you, I, or anyone else here knew Wally, Artemis, Aqualad, and Nightwing were all a part of some big conspiracy.

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Artemis is going undercover with Aqualad and it's Grayson's plan. Wally's just there because the plan involves his "best friend" and his lover. I'd be pleasantly surprised to be wrong, but unless anyone is involved in the show's production there's no way to guess that.
Well, you can guess and be right or wrong. Hell, I've probably defended shows before or tackled certain issues in shows and was proven wrong. I defended parts of Wolverine and the X-Men at the time, but now I'll admit it's flaws (their handling of Wolverine, being the biggest IMO). Hell if you go back and read some of the stuff I said about Tombstone's handling in Gangland, you'll notice some of it was less than graceful. Though word of god, set me straight on that issue.

If I end up wrong, and they somehow screw up on Wally's handling on the show, then I'll freely admit I was wrong. But I don't think Wally's being mishandled at all right now, nor do I think he is merely a supporting character.


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Old 08-27-2012, 03:01 AM   #61
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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With that logic, though, we would have never gotten guys like Riddler, Penguin, and Mr. Freeze to go beyond obscurity. They did say they are revamping a bunch of these guys, and other than toning down Pyg, I don't see the harm in this.

If I'm wrong about this, though, I will happily eat crow.
Admittedly, part of my cynicism is that I am "Batman'd out". I like the character but I have seen an awful lot of him in animation so it is very hard for me to become excited when the latest cartoon of his comes on.

I can understand from a corporate standpoint the desire to get some of these lessor known or newer Batman villains on screen and made into action figures as soon as possible. I just am not terribly thrilled by it. It makes me imagine that since there have been so many Batman shows the producers have to brainstorm hard to justify another one besides, "our bosses paid us". I mean, even "corny 50's Batman" has been done already!

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If this does end up leading to a "Batman and the Outsiders" situation like it was hinted in SDCC, then I will be less disappointed about that. Though the pitch for the No Man's Land series sounded more appealing, one of the reasons being Cass Cain in the roster.
I saw some of the art for that and it did seem more appealing. We just got Batman training the Outsiders in "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD". Hence the dilemma of so many Batman shows back to back to back.

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I had no problem with the TT shorts. But all the other shorts would make for better, more interesting shows. Plastic Man would make for a hilarious comedic show. Ditto for Animal Man and SBBF. And what I've seen of the Doom Patrol shorts is gorgeous, and would make for a great, serious cartoon.
Agreed, to a degree. But unfortunately Batman remains DC's most popular character who just appeared in a film, so the corporate desire is to get him back on TV this year. The fact that he's been played out is irrelevant to them. Yes, Marvel could be accused of the same with Spider-Man or the X-Men, but the argument of, "the other side is just as repetitive" is an excuse, not a reason.

I'd rather just see a third season of YJ in some form.

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They could theoretically have two different blocks that run consecutively. You have the Young Justice/Green Lantern block and then the Beware the Batman/Teen Titans block. Would allow for close to year round programming. AT least that is what I am hoping for.
That is possible, although whether CN has that big an imagination is unknown.

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Old 08-27-2012, 01:19 PM   #62
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I saw some of the art for that and it did seem more appealing. We just got Batman training the Outsiders in "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD". Hence the dilemma of so many Batman shows back to back to back.
As much as I love to gush about all the fan-service Brave and the Bold provided, I didn't really like their portrayal of the Outsiders. I get that they were trying to give them an arc, but they really seemed like yet another team of teenage superheroes, as opposed to, well, actual outsiders. And by the time the entire team was realized and perfected, they got abandoned. So...yeah.

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Old 08-27-2012, 05:59 PM   #63
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

So any news on a possible season 3?

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:05 PM   #64
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So any news on a possible season 3?
None whatsoever...

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:07 PM   #65
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None whatsoever...
In other words it's looking pretty grim huh?

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:20 PM   #66
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In other words it's looking pretty grim huh?
Yeah... I think so.

I'm still hoping to be pleasantly surprised though. I just don't think it'll happen.

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:22 PM   #67
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Yeah... I think so.

I'm still hoping to be pleasantly surprised though. I just don't think it'll happen.
Well it was really great while it lasted. I hope they at least have the decency to at least release the entire series on bluray.

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:39 PM   #68
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Don't give up hope. Not yet.

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Old 08-27-2012, 07:38 PM   #69
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

...If Greg gets let go and Ultimate Spider-Man gets cancelled after Season 2. Maybe Spectacular Spider-Man comes back after Marvel gets the rights back. Wishful thinking I know...

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Old 08-28-2012, 05:50 AM   #70
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

I actually think Greg will stay with WB animation for a while... they are usually pretty good and with a solid foundation he'll no doubt find another job pretty quick.

He just seems a tad unlucky when it comes to his shows.

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Old 08-28-2012, 11:29 AM   #71
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Not even 2 and half years and all the potentially great cartoons are dropping like flies

Thundercats- Most likely
Avengers: EMH- 99% sure
Young Justice- Most likely


USM was locked for two years already.

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Old 08-29-2012, 01:57 AM   #72
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by nygma619 View Post
If his arc this season is feeling insecure about living up to the pedigree of other speedsters then yes it is necessary. As THAT would actually heightened the emotional context of that arc.
We don't know if that really is Wally's arc for the season or how much time he'll have without Impulse attached or so on. People speculate but "YJ" for better or worse is usually a show which seeks to defy expectation. There is a lot to do with fewer episodes and historically whenever the show's needed to edit out some material to the side comic, often times it is Wally's (or Ocean-Master).

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Obviously. Wally rarely tripped or goofed up in the second half of the season.
Aside for "COLDHEARTED" he didn't do a whole lot for the later half of the season either, sitting out quite a few episodes (besides his subplot with Artemis, naturally). Wally's intelligence was on display in "HOME FRONT" and "HUMANITY", but that's always seemed to be at odds with his speedster powers to me. He's a genius (at least when it comes to giving other people exposition which allows them to solve problems) but in terms of his powers he's really only sub-par, often little better off than Robin might be. The ideal of course would be for him to better combine the two; not being faster than Impulse wouldn't matter if he uses what he has in a more intelligent fashion. Of course that also depends on a plot to allow that dynamic to occur. "BLOODLINES" wasn't it.

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Sure, but saying things like, "You know what ***** it, JLU had the best take on Wally West." just because you didn't like what you first saw in Bloodlines (without even taking anything into account based on context, of where it might be going. Wally becoming the Flash, is about as obvious a path as to where they are going with him as Dick becoming Nightwing.
It is obvious, but the question is the method. Grayson became Nightwing off camera during the time-skip. The question is whether Wally becoming the Flash is something which happens "in real time" or at least something that happens over the course of the season or is something which is referenced in the finale and then presumed to happen between this season and a theoretical third season. There were some fans who felt handling the transition from Robin to Nightwing off camera was a mistake, although at his blog Weisman doesn't see it that way because he isn't a fan of the notion of Grayson having "bad blood" with Batman or something like that. I'm not saying I am one of the fans eager to see Grayson and Batman arguing, mind you. Although it will remain to be seen what Batman would think of Grayson's entire conspiracy angle. Would Wayne respect the guile or be angered about it, or maybe even regret that Grayson learned some lessons too well?

As stated before, to me "YJ" Wally and "JLU" Wally both seem to operate under two sides of a coin. Both of them started out suffering some of the most embarrassing moments a superhero can have in an animated series. Both of them are usually good for amusing banter and a wisecrack. Where they split is "YJ" Wally got to have a long term romantic relationship with one of the show's regular heroines (and arguably it's best), while "JLU" Wally was probably of better use in a typical team battle, at least after the first season or so. Admittedly a comparison isn't fair since they're different incarnations handled by different writers, and "JLU" Flash naturally got in more episodes since "JL/U" ran 5 seasons. For the moment the "JLU" version is more memorable to me, yes. It really is hard to top "DIVIDED WE FALL". Obviously the character still holds my interest in "YJ", but in both shows attaching to Wally has usually been a lopsided affair. One episode he'll dazzle, then next he'll underwhelm.

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How so? You can prove to me that he asked for her help, you CAN'T prove to me that he needed it. For all you know, he might've just asked for her help just because THAT would've taken less time than him getting out of it.
Nobody can prove that (besides Greg Weisman). I was just going by what the scene offered.

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Getting tied up (not life threatening) and getting impaled (life threatening) are 2 way different things.
Depends on the situation.

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Being in action was the only characterization Superman had going on in season 1, it's all viewers were given. So when he's portrayed as not terribly good in that department of course that's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

In "The Batman's" season 5 premiere we saw him taking alot of punishment from the villains. But we also saw other facets to him, like his Clark Kent persona, him being reluctant to join the justice league. That by the time the episode ended, people didn't make a big deal about Supes getting smacked around since there was more to him there than being in action.
Who'd have thunk, someone made reference to "THE BATMAN" and it wasn't to bash it. Hey, while it wasn't one of my favorites it did have its moments. I have to admit my memory of the last season of "THE BATMAN" is a little fuzzy on the details so I'll take your word that Superman got knocked around. The context of course is that he's guesting on Batman's show; OF COURSE he can't totally dominate. Not even He-Man was as impressive as a guest star on "SHE-RA: PRINCESS OF POWER" as he usually was in his own series.

The point I was trying to make is that sometimes writers don't realize how they are handling a certain dynamic until later on and then they take steps to correct it. "JUSTICE LEAGUE" and "JLU" naturally had their share of growing pains. I'd argue most shows do to some extent; whether minor or major is variable.

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And look how long it took for you to eat your words. Especially after you assumed the worst based on your Alienated review. Sure you made a passing mention about Kaldur possibly being undercover, but it didn't stop you from whining about how you feel you missed something, instead of maybe WAITING and see what future episodes reveal.
I still was wise enough to mention the possibility Kaldur was undercover.

Speaking for myself, reviews are more fun to write when I work from my gut reaction about how an episode, film, or whatever made me experience something. Endlessly typing, "we'll see what happens" gets boring to me. So I don't mind making a judgement call and risking being wrong. Those sorts of reviews are more interesting for me to write, otherwise it's just a summary. "ALIENATED" pissed me off because of where I thought it may have went with Kaldur. I didn't mind being wrong later on.

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Obviously we have different tastes on what qualifies as fantastic. Just because he didn't get as much screen time doesn't make him a less interesting character.
But does it have to be such a mutually exclusive dynamic? I feel I've said that many times about how the show handles Wally or even some other things. Must it always be either/or?

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Apparently someone forgot about how simple petty thugs gave Batman more trouble than they should have in TAS (like in Riddler's debut episode). Compare THAT to him later in the DCAU?
The caveat is that many of Batman's rogues are not fighters themselves and thus they HAVE to rely on henchmen to provide the action portion of an episode a lot. The Riddler can't fight Batman evenly once things get physical; hence why he HAS to rely on thugs or traps or so on. You could say the same of Mad Hatter or many other villains; even Joker at times. The alternative is to make everyone a master of kung-fu like in "THE BATMAN", which I considered a cop out.

I still say Batman hasn't suffered some of the embarrassing moments the Flash or Kid-Flash usually has in animation. Robin, on the other hand, is a different story.

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What makes you think THAT? I certainly wouldn't put money on him being alive later in the season. Especially since Impulse went back in time to save Barry. My gut tells me that's not the last time he's going to be at deaths door. And perhaps the future STILL had him dying.
Nobody in DC Entertainment would sign off on something that killed off Barry Allen on screen. He's the current Flash and the higher-ups love him. DC brass have proven especially petty in regards to certain characters (obvious examples being Steph Brown and Cass Cain). While it's even money that Wally may be the Flash in a (currently hypothetical) third season, whether that happens during a time skip or happens live is another story.

Impulse apparently believed saving Barry from Neutron would solve the problems of his present (and Barry's future). While they did save Neutron, that alone didn't seem to be the catalyst, or at least the only one.

My gut tells me that even if the show had the guts to kill off Barry Allen, that DCE higher brass wouldn't have signed off on it. The only way it happens is if DCE brass are so clueless on the concept of synergy that they allow Barry Allen to die and be replaced as Flash by Wally on screen in a show watched by millions despite in the current comics Barry being Flash and Wally NOT EXISTING. The choice is either it doesn't happen because DC is petty or it does happen because they're clueless. Neither paints DCE in a positive light. Now, if Barry retires or something off camera between seasons, that is very doable. I suppose something could happen to Barry which doesn't outright kill him off; he loses his powers, goes missing (which Weisman wrote in his "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD" episode), becomes injured, etc.

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And what makes you think he won't have his own subplot that gets revealed by say episode 8 or 9? The show's gone out of its way to give the other 5 members their own subplots for this season, I doubt they would leave Wally out in the dust.
Aside for linking him to Artemis, the show has before. That is why it is difficult for me to share your immediate optimism. Even in the context of "DEPTHS", Wally has no desire to unravel "The Light" or anything like that; his entire concern is for Artemis. Nothing they do is of any concern to him because he retired to be with her. Now that's not in and of itself wrong - lord knows "for the fate of a beloved" has long motivated heroes - it isn't quite the same as the subplots for the other members. Like I've said, there's nothing wrong in itself to attaching Wally to Artemis exclusively - she is one of the best heroines the show has. There are certainly worse fates for characters on a team show than to be attached to the hip to an awesome heroine. But it isn't quite the same when one considers some of the others have their own subplots without needing to be attached to a significant other (or an unwanted sidekick).

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Well I never thought he was a supporting character on the show. Just one of many in many main characters in the shows main ensemble.
It is slowly getting more acceptable to me to see Wally as a supportive character on the show. Out of the ensemble cast he tends to have more of a supportive than action oriented role.

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Why not? The show felt it was more important for us to see him first instead of Artemis.
And you know him having problems with Bart being faster than him in Bloodlines won't be a big deal for Wally later on how? Everyone and their mother seems to get that on sites like this. I'm sorry if his arc hasn't been made obvious to you at the very first second you get. I see Bloodlines being a big deal for Barry, Wally, and Bart in the long run.
Wally was there to support Grayson and Roy, it wasn't the same. Besides, Artemis shows up later on in "SALVAGE" and her subplot was revealed in "DEPTHS" and teased in the last reel. I really don't get why you don't see the difference. Artemis' subplot is faking her death and joining Kaldur in extremely deep cover in Black Manta's organization in the attempt to undo "The Light" from within with moles of their own. That's very involved with the crux of the season (as usual for Artemis) and has nothing to do with Wally. She doesn't need him for that subplot to work. That's the difference.

Naturally we will see Wally and Impulse and maybe Barry in the future; depends on how much work George Eads can get in between episodes of "CSI" on his schedule. "JLU" had to recast Captain Atom because Eads apparently wasn't able to play the role beyond the season premiere. I know Impulse's subplot will matter to the crux of the season since it's a time travel plot. What I don't know is to what degree Wally will play into that besides tagging along. At worst I fear Impulse is there to replace Wally on "the team", which is a little annoying since he's got better speed powers ("hey, it's the guy who knows to AVOID marbles"). The show hasn't ever done much with Wally without attaching him to Artemis so I'm not expecting it now. If it happens, great.

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Sure he has, neither Denial (I'm ignoring how you feel about said episode for the sake of argument) nor Coldhearted NEEDED her to be involved in them. Artemis was just a dangling subplot for those episodes.
Artemis was extremely important in "DENIAL" since she was the one calling out Wally on his close mindedness in a manner none of the others were willing to do (either due to being friends with Wally so long, or being too "nice" like Megan, or not caring like Conner). I don't feel the episode executed what it wished as well as it could have, but without Artemis egging Wally on it wouldn't have worked at all. You are more right about "COLDHEARTED" although Artemis "gently" informing Wally that Megan was off the market was part of the road towards the lesson about priorities. The thing is both are mostly one shot episodes. The only subplot to come out of "DENIAL" is the Helmet Of Fate, which Wally has "special dialogue" about but isn't really about him. The affair of "COLDHEARTED" is solved in that episode. Which is fine as an episode, but when everything measures out in subplots over more than one episode, it is different at least.

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And Bart's reason for going back revolves around Flash.
Barry, not Wally. Although who knows what Impulse's goal is going to be now. He has no way of knowing whether his tampering effected the future and can't go home. He is in a position to offer plot convenient future knowledge ("spoilers") when required.

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And the show never tackled an arc of Aqualad's that DIDN'T revolve around him being team leader in season 1, look how long it took for that to change.

Besides, how do you know Artemis's decision to go through with this doesn't revolve around Wally?
From what she said in "DEPTHS", Artemis appears motivated by wanting to get back into costume and get back into "the life" again, at least for a while. Plus, her father worked for "The Light" as did her sister for a while. It appeared obvious from her dialogue that between the two of them, Wally was the one most eager to hang up the costumes and lead a civilian life together. Artemis seemed to miss being a costumed hero; Wally didn't. I did like the first scene in "DEPTHS" where Wally and Artemis are having a disagreement about her course of action and in that context you think it's about her mission at the rocket launch, but in reality is about her broader mission of infiltration. It works in both contexts and is heightened by the latter. I don't believe Artemis would deliberately engage in so dangerous a mission merely to try to goad Wally back into wearing a costume full time.

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At least not yet. Hell until episode 7, neither you, I, or anyone else here knew Wally, Artemis, Aqualad, and Nightwing were all a part of some big conspiracy.
We are almost at the midway point. Things have to start coming together soon.

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Well, you can guess and be right or wrong. Hell, I've probably defended shows before or tackled certain issues in shows and was proven wrong. I defended parts of Wolverine and the X-Men at the time, but now I'll admit it's flaws (their handling of Wolverine, being the biggest IMO). Hell if you go back and read some of the stuff I said about Tombstone's handling in Gangland, you'll notice some of it was less than graceful. Though word of god, set me straight on that issue.

If I end up wrong, and they somehow screw up on Wally's handling on the show, then I'll freely admit I was wrong. But I don't think Wally's being mishandled at all right now, nor do I think he is merely a supporting character.
You were far more critical of "TSSM" than I was in 2009. Most of my reviews on SHH were gush fests. If I had a quibble it was over some mundane detail which I didn't make much of. I had no problems with Tombstone in that show.

I think Wally's gotten the short end a lot in the show and at best he's the male version of what a lot of heroines are in other shows; he's there to be the lover of a far more interesting character who usually gets more of the spotlight and importance. Again, there are far worse places to be in a team show. Certainly Artemis wouldn't be as fun without Wally to play off of (even if she could have been paired with Kaldur, if the show wanted to go that way, but it didn't). Historically Wally's end is usually the end where stuff is edited for time so it does get hard for me to assume that this shorter and busier season will correct that. It certainly is possible but it is something I may hope for, not something I expect. There is a difference.

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Old 08-29-2012, 02:08 AM   #73
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet View Post
As much as I love to gush about all the fan-service Brave and the Bold provided, I didn't really like their portrayal of the Outsiders. I get that they were trying to give them an arc, but they really seemed like yet another team of teenage superheroes, as opposed to, well, actual outsiders. And by the time the entire team was realized and perfected, they got abandoned. So...yeah.
I'm not exactly fiending for more Batman and/or Outsiders personally. It still is the second verse, same as the first to me. Something I have seen before. I've seen Batman train Katanna before.

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Originally Posted by Floppity View Post
...If Greg gets let go and Ultimate Spider-Man gets cancelled after Season 2. Maybe Spectacular Spider-Man comes back after Marvel gets the rights back. Wishful thinking I know...
Extremely so. On his blog Weisman literally stated it was more likely he would produce more episodes of "GARGOYLES" at this juncture than any more of "TSSM". Marvel "didn't bite" on a comic book version, too.

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Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan View Post
I actually think Greg will stay with WB animation for a while... they are usually pretty good and with a solid foundation he'll no doubt find another job pretty quick.

He just seems a tad unlucky when it comes to his shows.
WB would be fools to let him get under contract with a competitor. And he's certainly written for them before now.

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Originally Posted by Gold Samurai View Post
Not even 2 and half years and all the potentially great cartoons are dropping like flies

Thundercats- Most likely
Avengers: EMH- 99% sure
Young Justice- Most likely


USM was locked for two years already.
"A:EMH" is done. Loeb makes noises about "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE" being loosely connected but I don't buy it. Even if so, it isn't the same.

It certainly has become difficult for many shows to last beyond 2 seasons. Hence why many shows have higher episode counts than during the Kid's WB era.

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Old 08-29-2012, 06:42 AM   #74
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

It's official...

Young Justice: Invasion returns with new episodes on Saturday the 29th of September at 10:30 AM.

We all knew this but its nice to have the details up on the official website.

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Old 08-29-2012, 07:26 AM   #75
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan View Post
It's official...

Young Justice: Invasion returns with new episodes on Saturday the 29th of September at 10:30 AM.

We all knew this but its nice to have the details up on the official website.
Great to hear - I wish it was sooner though , I've had little to look forward to in terms of television.

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