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Old 08-29-2012, 11:13 PM   #76
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan View Post
It's official...

Young Justice: Invasion returns with new episodes on Saturday the 29th of September at 10:30 AM.

We all knew this but its nice to have the details up on the official website.
Agreed, it is always nice to see the announcement of new "YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION" episodes coming. We don't know the title of the episode and we likely won't until Toonzone or someone else gets the full schedule for the month.

If memory serves, according to the last production update from back in June, another 2-3 episodes were "in the can" and ready for air; CN simply wanted to take a break to get more "in the can" I imagine. I don't know how many are ready now but historically CN usually doesn't air "YJ" until there are at least 5-7 episodes "in the can", which may be possible now that the production team will have had 3.5 months for various editing processes. So while the show may not return until the end of September, I imagine new episodes will run through October and into November like last year. The 2-part finale many not be ready until 2013, and I imagine CN will save a few other episodes to air as well in 2013, especially since cancellation or not, the video game comes out then and WB will want to make some cash on it.

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Old 08-30-2012, 06:10 AM   #77
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Thats what worries me...

They can blow through most of the episodes this fall then air the remaining few this Jan/Feb around the release of the videogame and that's it. Ending the show for good.

Beware the Batman takes it's slot in March. It's looking more and more likely.

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Old 08-30-2012, 11:01 PM   #78
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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We don't know if that really is Wally's arc for the season or how much time he'll have without Impulse attached or so on. People speculate but "YJ" for better or worse is usually a show which seeks to defy expectation. There is a lot to do with fewer episodes and historically whenever the show's needed to edit out some material to the side comic, often times it is Wally's (or Ocean-Master).
How would you know that without reading it? Last season they planted the seeds for all 6 members and their arcs early in the season. I've seen alot of the same type of setup for this season.

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Aside for "COLDHEARTED" he didn't do a whole lot for the later half of the season either, sitting out quite a few episodes (besides his subplot with Artemis, naturally). Wally's intelligence was on display in "HOME FRONT" and "HUMANITY", but that's always seemed to be at odds with his speedster powers to me. He's a genius (at least when it comes to giving other people exposition which allows them to solve problems) but in terms of his powers he's really only sub-par, often little better off than Robin might be. The ideal of course would be for him to better combine the two; not being faster than Impulse wouldn't matter if he uses what he has in a more intelligent fashion. Of course that also depends on a plot to allow that dynamic to occur. "BLOODLINES" wasn't it.
Sub par by your standards which I find to be slightly artificial. Because he moves fast you expect people to not be able to hit him, again his powers are about acceleration and deceleration. NOT super speed anticipation. Bloodlines was the setup, not the payoff.

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It is obvious, but the question is the method. Grayson became Nightwing off camera during the time-skip.
There wasn't a Nightwing before Dick.

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Both of them started out suffering some of the most embarrassing moments a superhero can have in an animated series. Both of them are usually good for amusing banter and a wisecrack. Where they split is "YJ" Wally got to have a long term romantic relationship with one of the show's regular heroines (and arguably it's best), while "JLU" Wally was probably of better use in a typical team battle, at least after the first season or so. Admittedly a comparison isn't fair since they're different incarnations handled by different writers, and "JLU" Flash naturally got in more episodes since "JL/U" ran 5 seasons. For the moment the "JLU" version is more memorable to me, yes. It really is hard to top "DIVIDED WE FALL". Obviously the character still holds my interest in "YJ", but in both shows attaching to Wally has usually been a lopsided affair. One episode he'll dazzle, then next he'll underwhelm.
To me Wally on this show is a far more well rounded character. Usually all Wally was on JLU was the funny guy. On this show he's far more than that, his insecurities play more in to him, he's far more stubborned, plus he's alot smarter. Truth be told, I found Wally on that show to be a weird hybrid of Barry and Bart Allen, more than Wally West himself.

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I still was wise enough to mention the possibility Kaldur was undercover.
Didn't stop you from feeling like the writers screwed up. So no points for you.

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Speaking for myself, reviews are more fun to write when I work from my gut reaction about how an episode, film, or whatever made me experience something. Endlessly typing, "we'll see what happens" gets boring to me. So I don't mind making a judgement call and risking being wrong. Those sorts of reviews are more interesting for me to write, otherwise it's just a summary. "ALIENATED" pissed me off because of where I thought it may have went with Kaldur. I didn't mind being wrong later on.
If I were you, I'd start getting used to that feeling coming up this season.

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But does it have to be such a mutually exclusive dynamic? I feel I've said that many times about how the show handles Wally or even some other things. Must it always be either/or?
Not necessarily. I just feel your reasons for how you feel come across as really petty sometimes.

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Batman hasn't suffered some of the embarrassing moments the Flash or Kid-Flash usually has in animation. Robin, on the other hand, is a different story.
Flash wasn't rescued by a bunch of kids in unconvincing fashion like Batman was in "I've got a Batman in my Basement".

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Nobody in DC Entertainment would sign off on something that killed off Barry Allen on screen. He's the current Flash and the higher-ups love him.
Until Geoff Jones took over and let them "do what you want, and use what they need." according to Greg Weisman; I might agree with you.

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Impulse apparently believed saving Barry from Neutron would solve the problems of his present (and Barry's future). While they did save Neutron, that alone didn't seem to be the catalyst, or at least the only one.

My gut tells me that even if the show had the guts to kill off Barry Allen, that DCE higher brass wouldn't have signed off on it. The only way it happens is if DCE brass are so clueless on the concept of synergy that they allow Barry Allen to die and be replaced as Flash by Wally on screen in a show watched by millions despite in the current comics Barry being Flash and Wally NOT EXISTING.
You do realize that most of the things with Young Justice: Invasion were signed off before The New 52 came about, right?

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Aside for linking him to Artemis, the show has before.
Wally was treated ALOT better than Kaldur was IMO.

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That is why it is difficult for me to share your immediate optimism.
As Sarcastic Fan has said elsewhere, you can tell who has watched most of Greg Weisman-helmed shows and who hasn't based on the comments.

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Even in the context of "DEPTHS", Wally has no desire to unravel "The Light" or anything like that; his entire concern is for Artemis. Nothing they do is of any concern to him because he retired to be with her. Now that's not in and of itself wrong - lord knows "for the fate of a beloved" has long motivated heroes - it isn't quite the same as the subplots for the other members. Like I've said, there's nothing wrong in itself to attaching Wally to Artemis exclusively - she is one of the best heroines the show has. There are certainly worse fates for characters on a team show than to be attached to the hip to an awesome heroine. But it isn't quite the same when one considers some of the others have their own subplots without needing to be attached to a significant other (or an unwanted sidekick).
You mean like how Superboy and M'Gann's subplots have them attached to each other at the hip? Hell we don't even know the reasons why they retired. Maybe they both felt the same way at first. Perhaps Wally will come around to missing the life later on. Just that Artemis came around first.

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It is slowly getting more acceptable to me to see Wally as a supportive character on the show. Out of the ensemble cast he tends to have more of a supportive than action oriented role.
Your basing that mostly around whether he's gotten the "COOLEST ACTION SEQUENCES" more than anything.

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Wally was there to support Grayson and Roy, it wasn't the same. Besides, Artemis shows up later on in "SALVAGE" and her subplot was revealed in "DEPTHS" and teased in the last reel. I really don't get why you don't see the difference.
Because I (and many others) can see the seeds of his subplot being setup in Bloodlines coming from a mile away. Personally I don't get how you see that as more "they made Wally look bad, and it's not going to go anywhere."

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That's very involved with the crux of the season (as usual for Artemis) and has nothing to do with Wally. She doesn't need him for that subplot to work. That's the difference.
Again how do you know Wally wasn't a factor in her decision to go through with this? Perhaps she remembered Tula dying and didn't want anyone else (like Tempest or Aqualad) to feel that way. If that was the case then it wouldn't work without Wally.

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Naturally we will see Wally and Impulse and maybe Barry in the future; depends on how much work George Eads can get in between episodes of "CSI" on his schedule. "JLU" had to recast Captain Atom because Eads apparently wasn't able to play the role beyond the season premiere. I know Impulse's subplot will matter to the crux of the season since it's a time travel plot. What I don't know is to what degree Wally will play into that besides tagging along. At worst I fear Impulse is there to replace Wally on "the team", which is a little annoying since he's got better speed powers ("hey, it's the guy who knows to AVOID marbles").
For all the good that did him he might as well have just tripped on the marbles since the next second saw him doing the "marty jannety" clothesline sell from Nightwing. Not to mention the marbles were setup quite a distance from him where as Wally tripped AFTER making a turn and didn't have time to see them.

Considering Wally and Bart's dynamic in the comics was a big deal, I see them sharing screen time together. Not to mention him being faster than Wally plays right into Wally feeling like he's insecure and unworthy to be taking up the Flash mantle, just like IN THE COMICS.

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The show hasn't ever done much with Wally without attaching him to Artemis so I'm not expecting it now. If it happens, great.
Once again, the show also didn't do much with Kaldur that didn't revolve around him being leader. Didn't take long for that to change did it?

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Artemis was extremely important in "DENIAL" since she was the one calling out Wally on his close mindedness in a manner none of the others were willing to do (either due to being friends with Wally so long, or being too "nice" like Megan, or not caring like Conner).
Her doing that was required to get him to put on the helmet how?

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The affair of "COLDHEARTED" is solved in that episode. Which is fine as an episode, but when everything measures out in subplots over more than one episode, it is different at least.
Yeah and in that very episode he robbed the Light of getting their own country ALL ON HIS OWN. A feat no one else had accomplished during the season. To me THAT counts for alot.

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Barry, not Wally.
Yeah but which one is more likely to bite it?

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From what she said in "DEPTHS", Artemis appears motivated by wanting to get back into costume and get back into "the life" again, at least for a while. Plus, her father worked for "The Light" as did her sister for a while. It appeared obvious from her dialogue that between the two of them, Wally was the one most eager to hang up the costumes and lead a civilian life together. Artemis seemed to miss being a costumed hero; Wally didn't. I did like the first scene in "DEPTHS" where Wally and Artemis are having a disagreement about her course of action and in that context you think it's about her mission at the rocket launch, but in reality is about her broader mission of infiltration. It works in both contexts and is heightened by the latter. I don't believe Artemis would deliberately engage in so dangerous a mission merely to try to goad Wally back into wearing a costume full time.
Neither do I. I think Artemis missed it later on. But I bet she felt the same way Wally did about quitting at the time they did.

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We are almost at the midway point. Things have to start coming together soon.
Have a little patience.

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You were far more critical of "TSSM" than I was in 2009. Most of my reviews on SHH were gush fests. If I had a quibble it was over some mundane detail which I didn't make much of. I had no problems with Tombstone in that show.
Despite any criticism of SSM that I had, I do feel its better than Young Justice. Hell I think it's Greg Weismans best work ever (yes Gargoyles fans, I said it was better than Gargoyles, want to fight about it?) My gripe with Tombstone at the time wasn't so much that I wanted him to be invulnerable more than I wanted him to feel unique from Kingpin (I used to feel like Tombstone up to Gangland could've been written with Kingpin in the same place with little writing change). When I heard that Robbie figured into future plans he had for Tombstone, I mellowed out a little and figured that where ever he went with the character would've made him feel less like Kingpin-lite (pun unavoidable).


Last edited by nygma619; 08-30-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:06 PM   #79
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan View Post
Thats what worries me...

They can blow through most of the episodes this fall then air the remaining few this Jan/Feb around the release of the videogame and that's it. Ending the show for good.

Beware the Batman takes it's slot in March. It's looking more and more likely.
At this point I see it as probable unless I see very sudden news to the contrary.

The plus side of course is that "YOUNG JUSTICE" regardless of what happens will still have gotten 46 episodes. That's more than "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" got, more than the 2002 He-Man series got.

When SDCC came and went without an announcement, that was sort of a quiet omission to me that a third season may not be happening.

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Old 08-30-2012, 11:15 PM   #80
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Greg's answering questions again, and he brought up this interesting nugget regarding his fascination for Icon and Rocket:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15543

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I can say the biggest difference between this show [YOUNG JUSTICE] and "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is showcased in one detail; this show expects their audience to know who H.G. Welles is, while "USM" assumes kids have never done anything but play video games in their room or watch MTV.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:21 PM   #81
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

That's cool he responded. Yeah, I do like the decision to include them as well.

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Old 08-31-2012, 09:41 PM   #82
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Nice to know return date is official. Now all we need is solid news if the show is over or returning.

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:30 PM   #83
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Just watched "Salvage". Can someone tell me when precisely Roy and Cheshire got hitched? Was that between seasons or...what?

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:55 PM   #84
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Yes they got hitched during the 5 yr time jump.

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Old 09-01-2012, 01:21 AM   #85
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

So after Roy learned he was a clone and Cheshire was already a known criminal. I know a lot can happen in five years but...gosh.

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Old 09-01-2012, 02:01 AM   #86
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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So after Roy learned he was a clone and Cheshire was already a known criminal. I know a lot can happen in five years but...gosh.
She probably took advantage of his weak mental state to do things with him.

I do get the feeling they were told to throw that line in in order to not get flak for a couple having a kid out of wedlock.

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I can say the biggest difference between this show [YOUNG JUSTICE] and "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is showcased in one detail; this show expects their audience to know who H.G. Welles is, while "USM" assumes kids have never done anything but play video games in their room or watch MTV.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:07 AM   #87
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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How would you know that without reading it? Last season they planted the seeds for all 6 members and their arcs early in the season. I've seen alot of the same type of setup for this season.
We've been through this before. People in this topic sometimes mention what goes on in the supplemental comic. And since I've no intention to pay for nor track down the supplemental comic, hearsay is okay. Least in this particular area.

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Sub par by your standards which I find to be slightly artificial. Because he moves fast you expect people to not be able to hit him, again his powers are about acceleration and deceleration. NOT super speed anticipation. Bloodlines was the setup, not the payoff.
It depends on how super-speed is interpreted and written, which is also something we've gone over before. In real life, drivers can't even drive at speeds near Mach 1 around an oval track without crashing into something sporadically. There has to be some measure of even unconscious reaction time enhancement otherwise a speedster would crash through a wall every time.

I did enjoy "BLOODLINES" overall, because it was well written. I'm just not keen on the idea of Impulse replacing Wally.

That said, think about it like this. Most people cannot react well to the heightened speeds of martial artists such as Bruce Lee or Jet Li or so on without near equal training. Such speed is nothing for Kid-Flash. Yet the guy's chumped by almost every villain with a name and a credited voice actor.

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There wasn't a Nightwing before Dick.
Well, post-CRISIS. Pre-CRISIS, Nightwing was a legendary hero on Krypton who Robin decided to name himself after to pay homage to more heroes besides Batman.

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To me Wally on this show is a far more well rounded character. Usually all Wally was on JLU was the funny guy. On this show he's far more than that, his insecurities play more in to him, he's far more stubborned, plus he's alot smarter. Truth be told, I found Wally on that show to be a weird hybrid of Barry and Bart Allen, more than Wally West himself.
I'll certainly agree that the "JL/U" Wally had a bit of Barry Allen in him. He had Barry's origin as well as his job, essentially. The Timm produced TV shows tended to "merge" various versions of characters like that; such as in "S:TAS" they may have called Green Lantern Kyle Rayner who had Kyle's job, but he basically had Hal Jordan's origin and design. By the second season of "JL" the show did establish that Wally was the heart of the team; without him they were prone to overreaction or corruption. Of course that got sidetracked when Flash practically sat out the opening season of "JLU" but it came up at various points.

I will concede that "YJ" 's version of Wally plays with science far more often, and technically does show up more. There's yet to be a 13-14 episode run of "YJ" where Wally didn't get a single line of dialogue and only two background cameos. And like I said before, "YJ" Wally has gotten to be in a long term relationship with a major team character; "JLU" Flash was a hapless bachelor until Linda Park emerged from nowhere. Yet there were those little moments in "JL/U" where despite all the jokes and banter the other Leaguers trusted or asked Flash to get serious when it mattered, and he did, and he didn't disappoint. I haven't really gotten that sense from "YJ" 's version yet.

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Didn't stop you from feeling like the writers screwed up. So no points for you.
Like I said, I write reviews from immediate reaction to an experience. Otherwise it isn't as thrilling for me. My immediate reaction was that while Kaldur may have been undercover I assumed the worst because that is what I do, and it is typically the path for male minority characters (to go evil or die, or both).

So, because I was wrong once, I should mindlessly type, "That was awesome, and whatever isn't awesome will be awesome if I wait long enough"? Because those wouldn't feel very honest nor be very fun to type for me.

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If I were you, I'd start getting used to that feeling coming up this season.
We'll see.

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Not necessarily. I just feel your reasons for how you feel come across as really petty sometimes.
I'd like major characters in an action team show to have equal focus and equal moments of triumph and butt-kickery. Golly, that's terribly petty of me to notice the difference between Wally and Superboy in some of those regards.

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Flash wasn't rescued by a bunch of kids in unconvincing fashion like Batman was in "I've got a Batman in my Basement".
Which isn't as bad as running into a door. That's like Batman knocking himself out crashing through a window. And let's be fair - NO EPISODE OF ANY SHOW, EVER, has ever done the "kids save the hero" episode well. None. It doesn't matter if it's Batman or the Justice League or Spider-Man. It's a lame episode trope in general. Even as a kid I hated it.

"INJUSTICE FOR ALL" and "BRAVE AND THE BOLD" also had some fairly embarrassing Flash moments. One of which does involve the bane of a speedster's existence on TV - marbles.

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Until Geoff Jones took over and let them "do what you want, and use what they need." according to Greg Weisman; I might agree with you.
I'll believe it when I see it. "Doing what they want" and "kill off Geoff's favorite character ever who stars in the current FLASH book" are two different things sometimes in TV.

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You do realize that most of the things with Young Justice: Invasion were signed off before The New 52 came about, right?
But the New 52 was coming down the pipe, and DC's love for Barry Allen was evident for a while.

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Wally was treated ALOT better than Kaldur was IMO.
Hence why I usually say there are worse fates than being attached as the boyfriend to an awesome heroine.

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As Sarcastic Fan has said elsewhere, you can tell who has watched most of Greg Weisman-helmed shows and who hasn't based on the comments.
It has been a very, very, VERY long time since I watched any "GARGOYLES" (well over a decade if not half my life ago) and I never saw "WITCH". "TSSM" is the freshest.

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You mean like how Superboy and M'Gann's subplots have them attached to each other at the hip? Hell we don't even know the reasons why they retired. Maybe they both felt the same way at first. Perhaps Wally will come around to missing the life later on. Just that Artemis came around first.
Superboy had a subplot revolving around Luthor, CADMUS, and acceptance from Superman. M'Gann had a subplot revolving around Queen Bee, Gar Logan, and hiding her true species to EVERYONE, not just Conner. Megan's quickly budding psychic powers as well as her willingness to use them in unethical ways was also a factor. Both of those subplots work independent of each other; especially Conner's. They just happen to work a little better together. But each had something to do without the other if an episode required it. That isn't something one can really say about Wally. Even his "accepting things on faith" subplot was really just so he could get into a position to be Artemis' boyfriend, which he couldn't before.

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Because I (and many others) can see the seeds of his subplot being setup in Bloodlines coming from a mile away. Personally I don't get how you see that as more "they made Wally look bad, and it's not going to go anywhere."
The problem I think is you fail to see my view point properly. Historically whenever the show has had to trim one character's subplots for time or whatever, Wally is usually the one they do so with (or Kaldur). And historically he is attached to the hip to Artemis. So beyond however any of his stories effect Artemis, no, I don't exactly see a pivotal moment for Wally coming, not unless it is part of Artemis or Impulse's thing. The show's so busy and crammed that you do need to bunch up characters a bit in order to even hope of giving everyone some equal play. If we had another six episodes I'd be a little more hopeful, but not without them.

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Again how do you know Wally wasn't a factor in her decision to go through with this? Perhaps she remembered Tula dying and didn't want anyone else (like Tempest or Aqualad) to feel that way. If that was the case then it wouldn't work without Wally.
Considering the fact that Nightwing seemed willing to fake at least one person's death and we saw Tula in the teaser reel, I am not 100% convinced she is dead at all. I have some reasonable doubt, at least.

If Wally was that big a factor then she wouldn't have gone through with it at all, since Wally clearly didn't want her to.

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For all the good that did him he might as well have just tripped on the marbles since the next second saw him doing the "marty jannety" clothesline sell from Nightwing. Not to mention the marbles were setup quite a distance from him where as Wally tripped AFTER making a turn and didn't have time to see them.

Considering Wally and Bart's dynamic in the comics was a big deal, I see them sharing screen time together. Not to mention him being faster than Wally plays right into Wally feeling like he's insecure and unworthy to be taking up the Flash mantle, just like IN THE COMICS.
Marbles always seem to be a speedster's bane in DC cartoons. Seriously, all of Flash's rogues should just carry bags of them, they'd be invincible. Who needs mirrors or freeze guns when you have marbles?

The comics had a major difference - Wally was already the Flash when Impulse showed up. I also doubt Impulse was faster than Wally in the comics when he first showed up (although if I am wrong, DC historians can correct me). The show has also never gotten around to a reason why Wally isn't as fast as Barry or Impulse and even the comics flip-flopped on that. Originally it was biological - because Wally was mutated as a child and while he was still growing - his powers were more unstable and eventually caused him great pain. That ailment was cured by a blast of plot convenient energy during CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Later it was psychological - Wally personally felt he could never escape Barry's shadow even when Barry was dead for a while, so he held himself back. We don't know what track this show is taking with that yet. Barry didn't seem to fret about Wally's health in "BLOODLINES" so it may not be biological - assuming he knows of course. At ASK GREG, Weisman stated he disliked the idea of "the Speed Force" and to him Flash, Kid-Flash, et al. all get their powers from freak mutation much like Spider-Man got his from the spider-bite. In the comics, harnessing that was linked to Wally's boost in power; he was supposedly the first Flash to recognize the "speed force" and survive - so much so that Wally seeming to "sacrifice himself to the speed force" only to return later on from a seeming death seemed to happen about as often as Jean Grey dying.

I'd have rather had focus on Wally without Impulse needing to be there.

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Once again, the show also didn't do much with Kaldur that didn't revolve around him being leader. Didn't take long for that to change did it?
Kaldur was looking for "the mole" for a few episodes in Season 1. "DOWNTIME" also was a bit of a foundation for his role with Black Manta now.

It comes down to this, really. I can honestly believe YJ putting Kaldur in a pivotal role for the subplot for an entire season that matters in terms of the storyline without requiring he be the support character to a more impressive girlfriend or a kid sidekick. I don't honestly believe YJ would use Wally in that manner. At least not yet. It isn't that I doubt Wally is coming back or even donning the Kid-Flash costume again - of course he will. I just wonder if he will do those things in a story that is actually about him, or about how he supports either Impulse or Artemis. It wouldn't be an issue except other characters, including Artemis, can have stories about themselves without always being obligated to be attached to the hip to someone else. Hence why I am starting to see Wally as more of a supporting character, especially as Season 2 has changed the regular cast roster a bit.

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Her doing that was required to get him to put on the helmet how?
Wally wouldn't have put on the helmet if he didn't begin to at least believe that magic was real and it'd have an effect. And like I said, Artemis' role in challenging Wally's opinion/attitude was key in that regard. The others weren't willing to challenge Wally in that regard for a variety of reasons. Artemis was.

My issue was "DENIAL" was never that I didn't get what it wanted to do. I just felt it didn't do it as well as I prefer.

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Yeah and in that very episode he robbed the Light of getting their own country ALL ON HIS OWN. A feat no one else had accomplished during the season. To me THAT counts for alot.
Yet for "The Light" it was a Tuesday.

Greg did comment on that recently at the blog: http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15498

(He also does a better job explaining the build-up for Wally & Artemis than the show did, but I suppose that's easy when you write/edit it.)

I suppose the conflict I usually have with "COLDHEARTED" is most of "The Light"'s plots stretch into several episodes and roll onward for a while. Such as their scheme to infiltrate and take over the Justice League. Such things gives them more weight. Therefore it gets easy to dismiss any other plot which comes and goes at a faster pace. Then it seems like foiling a typical plot of the week, which is sort of the objective of most superhero shows.

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Yeah but which one is more likely to bite it?
Hey, I had a few post exchanges with at least one poster who thought Wally was biting it.

I'm not convinced the show has the stones to kill Barry on screen. Even "BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD" went around that by "banishing" Barry through time for a while. As I said in my previous post, it is possible something happens to Barry which doesn't kill him. After all, the show couldn't exactly do it as the comics did with a crisis and Anti-Monitor.

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Neither do I. I think Artemis missed it later on. But I bet she felt the same way Wally did about quitting at the time they did.
Naturally. I doubt Wally could have gotten Artemis to fully retire if she genuinely didn't want to at least for a while. Considering she came from a broken home I imagine the idea of making a stable one with someone was appealing. However, after a few years the urges returned at least for Artemis. Sure, Wally slapped the suit on for "BLOODLINES" but it was more of an obligation during an emergency for him, to make sure Barry and Impulse would be okay (especially as he was at least a little suspicious of the former). Artemis does seem to get more of a sense of fulfillment from it, at least this season. I imagine going undercover with Kaldur will be a strain for her, of course. Straddling that line she chose not to cross when she rebelled against her father and sister.

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Have a little patience.
Forget, "Don't call them sidekicks". "Better late than never" should be the slogan for this show. Especially with the air schedule.

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Despite any criticism of SSM that I had, I do feel its better than Young Justice. Hell I think it's Greg Weismans best work ever (yes Gargoyles fans, I said it was better than Gargoyles, want to fight about it?) My gripe with Tombstone at the time wasn't so much that I wanted him to be invulnerable more than I wanted him to feel unique from Kingpin (I used to feel like Tombstone up to Gangland could've been written with Kingpin in the same place with little writing change). When I heard that Robbie figured into future plans he had for Tombstone, I mellowed out a little and figured that where ever he went with the character would've made him feel less like Kingpin-lite (pun unavoidable).
"TSSM" is heads and tails better than "YJ" to me. There's not even a debate in my mind in that regard. A fair caveat is that team superhero shows are different beasts than a solo hero show with a civilian supporting cast. But, yes, "TSSM" made excellence look easy and defied high expectations as quickly as I had them. Anyone who doubts my ability to be critical of a Spider-Man cartoon should dig up my reviews of the first 12 episodes of "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN". "YJ" is definitely a show which had to crawl before it walked and walk before it ran, with some stumbles here and there. I still think it started too cluttered too soon and merely got more so, but maybe that's just me.

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Old 09-01-2012, 04:02 AM   #88
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet View Post
I do get the feeling they were told to throw that line in in order to not get flak for a couple having a kid out of wedlock.
I was thinking the same thing.

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Old 09-01-2012, 09:56 PM   #89
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Originally Posted by Dread View Post
It depends on how super-speed is interpreted and written, which is also something we've gone over before. In real life, drivers can't even drive at speeds near Mach 1 around an oval track without crashing into something sporadically. There has to be some measure of even unconscious reaction time enhancement otherwise a speedster would crash through a wall every time.
With Wally it's been portrayed as him not being able to stop on a notice the same way Barry and the others can.

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That said, think about it like this. Most people cannot react well to the heightened speeds of martial artists such as Bruce Lee or Jet Li or so on without near equal training. Such speed is nothing for Kid-Flash. Yet the guy's chumped by almost every villain with a name and a credited voice actor.
I don't remember Bruce Lee or Jet Li taking on supervillains before, so you'll have to refresh my memory when that happened.

Also just having super speed, doesn't mean villains won't think about how to deal with someone like that. Also just because he gets knocked down by some villains doesn't mean he's CHUMPED by them (ala Sportsmaster). Otherwise it's pretty silly of you to call those victories over him, but dismiss him having little to no difficulty with Chesire in the 2nd half of the season.

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Yet there were those little moments in "JL/U" where despite all the jokes and banter the other Leaguers trusted or asked Flash to get serious when it mattered, and he did, and he didn't disappoint.
Except for when you remember him disappointing you at various points. YJ Wally has still had those "little moments" and such in the show. It's just that doesn't seem good enough for you. Yet the rest of the world (for the most part) doesn't seem bothered by this so called problem.

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So, because I was wrong once, I should mindlessly type, "That was awesome, and whatever isn't awesome will be awesome if I wait long enough"? Because those wouldn't feel very honest nor be very fun to type for me.
Actually you were wrong a good number of times. 1 being that you didn't think anything up till Insecurity didn't resemble chemistry between Wally & Artemis.
You thought 1 person would be responsible for saving the day in Auld Acquaintances.
You claimed Wally and Artemis would be doomed to cameos in Happy New Years.
You claimed the writers screwed up because they didn't have a plan and were just holding their cards and didn't want to tip their hand to you, because they portrayed Aqualad as evil.

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I'd like major characters in an action team show to have equal focus and equal moments of triumph and butt-kickery. Golly, that's terribly petty of me to notice the difference between Wally and Superboy in some of those regards.
The petty stuff I'm talking about is something like where you dismiss KF knocking out Black Spider just because he's tied. Yet no one else (including me) really gave a crap about something that trivial.

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Which isn't as bad as running into a door. That's like Batman knocking himself out crashing through a window. And let's be fair - NO EPISODE OF ANY SHOW, EVER, has ever done the "kids save the hero" episode well. None. It doesn't matter if it's Batman or the Justice League or Spider-Man. It's a lame episode trope in general. Even as a kid I hated it.
Actually I'd take running into the door because it's less disgraceful than a villain seeing an a-list hero getting saved by a couple of jack and jill lame-wads. At least I'd rather be seen doing that, than the later. Can you imagine a group of villains having an Almost Got I'm style get together talking about how you were rescued by a bunch of kids? That's more likely to shoot down your hero cred than something mundane like running into a door.

Also I seem to remember an Incredible Hulk 90's episode that did something akin to it, but I don't remember it being terrible.

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One of which does involve the bane of a speedster's existence on TV - marbles.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems your the only one who makes a big deal about those marbles being "embarrassing moments". Not saying they aren't to a certain degree, but it just seems like your making a mountain out of a mole hill with them.

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I'll believe it when I see it. "Doing what they want" and "kill off Geoff's favorite character ever who stars in the current FLASH book" are two different things sometimes in TV.
Geoff's favorite? I think your confusing him with Dan Didio.

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Superboy had a subplot revolving around Luthor, CADMUS, and acceptance from Superman. M'Gann had a subplot revolving around Queen Bee, Gar Logan, and hiding her true species to EVERYONE, not just Conner. Megan's quickly budding psychic powers as well as her willingness to use them in unethical ways was also a factor. Both of those subplots work independent of each other; especially Conner's. They just happen to work a little better together. But each had something to do without the other if an episode required it. That isn't something one can really say about Wally. Even his "accepting things on faith" subplot was really just so he could get into a position to be Artemis' boyfriend, which he couldn't before.
Your saying all this as though Wally actually NEEDED their amount of screen time for us to find him entertaining and engaging as a character. Obviously the producers felt that way about the likes of characters like Wally and Kaldur. Whilst I would say they were right about the former, I don't think they were right about the later.

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The problem I think is you fail to see my view point properly.
No I see your viewpoint, I just don't agree with it.

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Historically whenever the show has had to trim one character's subplots for time or whatever, Wally is usually the one they do so with (or Kaldur). And historically he is attached to the hip to Artemis. So beyond however any of his stories effect Artemis, no, I don't exactly see a pivotal moment for Wally coming, not unless it is part of Artemis or Impulse's thing. The show's so busy and crammed that you do need to bunch up characters a bit in order to even hope of giving everyone some equal play. If we had another six episodes I'd be a little more hopeful, but not without them.
Your making this basis on believing history repeats itself. Let me ask you a question. In Spectacular Spider-Man did Tombstone appear in Season 2 as much as he did in Season 1? Did Doc Ock have that big of a presence in Season 1 compared to Season 2? Why? They didn't need them to appear as much in certain seasons. However many episodes Wally appears in, I'm sure they'll tell the story he NEEDS. And outside of Brandon Vietti this is practically the same creative team as that one.

Also keep in mind that Greg Weisman also said that he and Brandon had 7 other characters they wanted to have appear in season 2. But they couldn't justify their appearances due to all the other characters stories and their needs. So they are showing restraint, all evidence to the contrary.

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Wally wouldn't have put on the helmet if he didn't begin to at least believe that magic was real and it'd have an effect. And like I said, Artemis' role in challenging Wally's opinion/attitude was key in that regard. The others weren't willing to challenge Wally in that regard for a variety of reasons. Artemis was.
Actually Wally was pushed into a corner where the helmet was at least a viable option. When he first enters Fate's realm he thinks he hallucinating. It isn't until his body starts performing powers that aren't his that he starts being more open minded.

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Greg did comment on that recently at the blog: http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15498

(He also does a better job explaining the build-up for Wally & Artemis than the show did, but I suppose that's easy when you write/edit it.)
More like Greg was spelling it out for the fans who are too thick headed to get it.

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I suppose the conflict I usually have with "COLDHEARTED" is most of "The Light"'s plots stretch into several episodes and roll onward for a while. Such as their scheme to infiltrate and take over the Justice League. Such things gives them more weight. Therefore it gets easy to dismiss any other plot which comes and goes at a faster pace. Then it seems like foiling a typical plot of the week, which is sort of the objective of most superhero shows.
It's not like The Light hasn't had one-shots that have succeeded for them (Targets anyone). And given how high profile The Light is, and their success percentage; I still consider it a BIG feather in Wally's cap that he stopped them all on his own.


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I'm not convinced the show has the stones to kill Barry on screen. Even "BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD" went around that by "banishing" Barry through time for a while. As I said in my previous post, it is possible something happens to Barry which doesn't kill him. After all, the show couldn't exactly do it as the comics did with a crisis and Anti-Monitor.
With the silly embargoes lifted, I'm convinced that Geoff Johns would realize that one tv show isn't going to be the bane of a comic books existance.



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Naturally. I doubt Wally could have gotten Artemis to fully retire if she genuinely didn't want to at least for a while. Considering she came from a broken home I imagine the idea of making a stable one with someone was appealing. However, after a few years the urges returned at least for Artemis. Sure, Wally slapped the suit on for "BLOODLINES" but it was more of an obligation during an emergency for him, to make sure Barry and Impulse would be okay (especially as he was at least a little suspicious of the former). Artemis does seem to get more of a sense of fulfillment from it, at least this season. I imagine going undercover with Kaldur will be a strain for her, of course. Straddling that line she chose not to cross when she rebelled against her father and sister.
According the canon that YJ: Legacy's setup this is a year before Invasion started. So Wally and Artemis have only been out of the life for less than a year.

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Forget, "Don't call them sidekicks". "Better late than never" should be the slogan for this show. Especially with the air schedule.
Yeah lets pay things off right away, forget doing buildup or characters going through growing pains.


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Old 09-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #90
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

It's now the start of September, so hopefully the title of the next episode airing Sept. 29th will be revealed soon, either at ASK GREG or Toonzone.

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Originally Posted by nygma619 View Post
With Wally it's been portrayed as him not being able to stop on a notice the same way Barry and the others can.
I've noticed. And by "others" that's Barry and Impulse since I don't think there are other speedsters. While Superman and Superboy do move/fly/jump fast Greg Weisman said they're not on par with speedsters, right? Hilariously, Superboy got in a cool looking "super flurry of punches" move.

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I don't remember Bruce Lee or Jet Li taking on supervillains before, so you'll have to refresh my memory when that happened.

Also just having super speed, doesn't mean villains won't think about how to deal with someone like that. Also just because he gets knocked down by some villains doesn't mean he's CHUMPED by them (ala Sportsmaster). Otherwise it's pretty silly of you to call those victories over him, but dismiss him having little to no difficulty with Chesire in the 2nd half of the season.
I actually liked "USUAL SUSPECTS" a great deal; sometimes even more than "AULD ACQUAINTANCE", but man, Kid-Flash may as well have stayed aboard the Bio-Ship. Sportsmaster dropped him like 3rd period French. Keep in mind this is also the guy Red Arrow once got in a grappling move in "INSECURITY". So I guess Clone Roy has better reaction time than Wally.

My issue is it usually seems too many villains can deal with someone like that to the point that Kid-Flash is really no more useful than any non-powered team member like Batgirl, Robin, or Nightwing. Which wouldn't get my goat so much if Superboy couldn't scream and overpower virtually anyone when he has to.

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Except for when you remember him disappointing you at various points. YJ Wally has still had those "little moments" and such in the show. It's just that doesn't seem good enough for you. Yet the rest of the world (for the most part) doesn't seem bothered by this so called problem.
As I have said, liking Wally in animation has usually proven to be a frustrating affair. I seem to always attach to him for some reason - usually the sense of humor - and I spend about as much time rooting for him as I do rolling my eyes because some bloke has yet again tripped him with marbles.

"The rest of the world" is happy with the ship that they don't really care if Kid-Flash runs into walls a lot or is just a spare body in most team missions. And like I said, "spitfire" (as people on YouTube call the ship between Wally and Artemis) is one major advantage over the "JL/U" version, not trying to ignore that. It is a major thing, don't get me wrong. Being Artemis' boyfriend is a very meaty role. I just sometimes want more for him, especially when Artemis is more than capable of her own subplots removed from him, as well as other characters.

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Actually you were wrong a good number of times. 1 being that you didn't think anything up till Insecurity didn't resemble chemistry between Wally & Artemis.
You thought 1 person would be responsible for saving the day in Auld Acquaintances.
You claimed Wally and Artemis would be doomed to cameos in Happy New Years.
You claimed the writers screwed up because they didn't have a plan and were just holding their cards and didn't want to tip their hand to you, because they portrayed Aqualad as evil.
I seem to recall you dismissing some people who were guessing about a "time skip" when the first screen shots of "HAPPY NEW YEAR" hit the 'net.

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The petty stuff I'm talking about is something like where you dismiss KF knocking out Black Spider just because he's tied. Yet no one else (including me) really gave a crap about something that trivial.
Different strokes.

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Actually I'd take running into the door because it's less disgraceful than a villain seeing an a-list hero getting saved by a couple of jack and jill lame-wads. At least I'd rather be seen doing that, than the later. Can you imagine a group of villains having an Almost Got I'm style get together talking about how you were rescued by a bunch of kids? That's more likely to shoot down your hero cred than something mundane like running into a door.

Also I seem to remember an Incredible Hulk 90's episode that did something akin to it, but I don't remember it being terrible.
I think that was "MAN TO MAN, BEAST TO BEAST" from the 90's Incredible Hulk show's first season, where Hulk fights Sasquatch (played by Clancy Brown). The episode wasn't terribly memorable to me, although my overall recollection of that Hulk series isn't very good. The first season was hit or miss and the second...just hit the fan. The Hulk hasn't had a solo cartoon since. Steve E. Gordon did some production artwork for a series called "HULKS" - seemingly about Banner and his son - which was developed around when the first Universal Studios "HULK" movie came out, but it went nowhere.

Penguin didn't mention that incident in the "ALMOST GOT 'IM" episode. And nothing diminishes Batman's credibility. You also dismissed my other examples, because they don't matter to you, fine.

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Maybe it's just me, but it seems your the only one who makes a big deal about those marbles being "embarrassing moments". Not saying they aren't to a certain degree, but it just seems like your making a mountain out of a mole hill with them.
I see them so often that they become imprinted in my brain. I rarely see the alternative.

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Geoff's favorite? I think your confusing him with Dan Didio.
I think they each rely on the other for strength at this point, much like Mr. Touch and Mr. Go from the 2003 era "TMNT" cartoon. Or the Blood Brothers from Marvel Comics.

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Your saying all this as though Wally actually NEEDED their amount of screen time for us to find him entertaining and engaging as a character. Obviously the producers felt that way about the likes of characters like Wally and Kaldur. Whilst I would say they were right about the former, I don't think they were right about the later.
I think Wally did need more screen time, yes. "COLDHEARTED" in Season 1 felt long overdue to me.

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No I see your viewpoint, I just don't agree with it.
Fair enough.

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Your making this basis on believing history repeats itself. Let me ask you a question. In Spectacular Spider-Man did Tombstone appear in Season 2 as much as he did in Season 1? Did Doc Ock have that big of a presence in Season 1 compared to Season 2? Why? They didn't need them to appear as much in certain seasons. However many episodes Wally appears in, I'm sure they'll tell the story he NEEDS. And outside of Brandon Vietti this is practically the same creative team as that one.

Also keep in mind that Greg Weisman also said that he and Brandon had 7 other characters they wanted to have appear in season 2. But they couldn't justify their appearances due to all the other characters stories and their needs. So they are showing restraint, all evidence to the contrary.
You didn't ask a question; you asked and answered your own question. Therefore, it is a statement.

Doc Ock is actually in a damn lot of episodes of "TSSM" in general - not that I minded. Ock's character had evolved to a different point in Season 2. For a chunk of his appearances in Season 1, he was mild mannered Otto Octavious, Norman Osborn's repressed and beleaguered scientist. Naturally he becomes Doc Ock and ultimately the leader of the Sinister Six. In Season 2 his role evolves to the point that he becomes the organizer of costumed criminals in general (with Tombstone being the leader of organized crime which may have had some gimmick operatives but weren't quite as garish or had as lofty "master plans"). And for the record, if you include episodes where Peter Macnicol is credited as "Master Planner", then Ock is in 6 episodes of season one and 5 episodes in season two. I wouldn't consider that a vast difference. I will acknowledge Tombstone showed up less, but that was because being under the radar is what he wanted to be. He capitalized on the super villains - even helping create many of them - to keep Spider-Man distracted from his enterprises. Naturally, it did blow up on him by the end.

If "YJ:I" is showing restraint, then I think Weisman and Vietti should have found some more fat to trim. Wonder Girl may be fine and while it is nice to expand Wonder Woman's influence a little, she seems to have no purpose to the team besides being an extra member. She wasn't built up in Season 1 like Batgirl, Bumblebee, Beast Boy and even Mal were, nor does she seem to be as key to the subplot as Blue Beetle is. She shouldn't be there, then. I know it's an homage to the comic of the same name, but this show has rarely given a damn about the actual YJ comic beyond having Red Tornado around (which he isn't anymore), so why start now? Why start with a season that has fewer episodes and thus less screen time for everyone? It's the same mistake that "JLU" did - the episodes became half as long and the cast was vastly multiplied. I'm not as hardcore a DC fan so I don't live for seeing my favorite D-List DC star get an episode like some people might - they'll merrily accept "JLU" diminishing a chunk of the founding cast because Booster Gold and B'Wanna Beast got episodes - so maybe I'm not the right guy to judge. I'd rather a team show stick to it's cast and do them well than seem to be engaged in a game to clutter every season with more characters from the WHO'S WHO. A show can exist to be an instructional series about DC characters or it can tell a focused story about a focused cast - I have yet to be convinced many shows can do both.

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Actually Wally was pushed into a corner where the helmet was at least a viable option. When he first enters Fate's realm he thinks he hallucinating. It isn't until his body starts performing powers that aren't his that he starts being more open minded.
I'll take your word for it since I haven't watched "DENIAL" since it aired.

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More like Greg was spelling it out for the fans who are too thick headed to get it.
There seem to be a few of those on his blog, then.

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It's not like The Light hasn't had one-shots that have succeeded for them (Targets anyone). And given how high profile The Light is, and their success percentage; I still consider it a BIG feather in Wally's cap that he stopped them all on his own.
I doubt Vandal Savage lost any sleep over it. Like I said, it is a matter of presentation. Probably the most notable thing is "The Light" didn't really gain anything from it. They typically gain something even from losses, such as information or leverage. Aside for proving they could blanket half the nation in snow whenever they wanted, they really didn't gain a thing.

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With the silly embargoes lifted, I'm convinced that Geoff Johns would realize that one tv show isn't going to be the bane of a comic books existance.
So why is Katana and not Cassandra Cain in "BEWARE THE BATMAN"?

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According the canon that YJ: Legacy's setup this is a year before Invasion started. So Wally and Artemis have only been out of the life for less than a year.
Noted. Like I said, while I imagine both Wally and Artemis were in mutual agreement with retiring whenever they did, the desire to return to "the life" returned for Artemis and hasn't for Wally. Naturally I imagine the show will get into the burden and stress of being that undercover for Artemis, since in such missions one risks losing themselves to "the role". Here she's struggled mightily to avoid becoming a criminal operative like her father and sister, and now she's going to have to pretend to be one to such a convincing degree that she's going to straddle a very fine line. Which is very engaging and interesting - and has nothing to do with Wally to work. Wally's subplot is he's worried about Artemis. That's the difference; Artemis can support her own independent subplots, and Wally can't in this show, for some reason.

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Yeah lets pay things off right away, forget doing buildup or characters going through growing pains.
My issue isn't that. My issue is I don't usually have faith in the show to eventually deliver because I think it would rather outsmart its audience than satisfy them sometimes. I have complete faith that the storyline for the season will be very smartly written with a lot of imaginative and engaging twists and turns. I have less faith that it will be satisfying for me in regards to all the characters I care about.

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Old 09-04-2012, 11:11 PM   #91
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Finally, Toonzone has come up with a new update about "YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION".

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/20...tional-update/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Harvey @ Toonzone.net/World's Finest
Representatives for Cartoon Network have confirmed the September 29th, 2012 return of new episodes for Green Lantern: The Animated Series and Young Justice. Beginning September 29th, 2012, the network has confirmed both series will see an extended run of new episodes until at least November 2012. The run is expected to last for at least six episodes, though representatives for the network stress that the schedule is subject to change without notice. In addition to new episodes of both DC Nation programming block anchors, new animated shorts and bonus content will also return. Specific details have not yet been provided.

Stay tuned for episode specific details in the coming weeks, leading up to the debut of new Green Lantern: The Animated Series and Young Justice episodes.

In additional news, Cartoon Network has informed The World’s Finest – and other sites – that the monthly schedules usually released at the start of each month by the network will no longer be provided to consumer websites due to a new corporate policy. As of this month, monthly schedule details will only be sent to listings services which then supply the listings to assorted television guides. The representative also noted new episode details will appear on both CartoonNetwork.com and the Cartoon Network app a week or two before said episode debuts. Episode specific media, including episode loglines and images, will also still be released for episodes as they debut.

Still, the staff here at The World’s Finest is looking for alternatives and hope to still bring episode news for both Green Lantern: The Animated Series and Young Justice as quickly as possible, so please stay tuned for any relevant updates or changes.
This matches my expectations. CN had at least 2 more episodes "in the can" when they decided to give the show a break after "DEPTHS", and historically even with the long gaps between new episodes, since the pilot in Nov. 2010 the network has always sought to air at least 6-7 straight weeks of new episodes when they do air it. This would also leave at least 6-7 episodes to air in Winter/Spring 2013, which would wrap up Season 2 in time for the release of the video game.

Two seasons aired across dates which span 4 years. I guess that's modern cable scheduling for you.

It does stink that CN won't release the episode titles and blurbs a month in advance anymore, but as the site notes, CN's own website usually posts them a week or so in advance for my traditional over analysis.

Still no mention of a third season, with Fall only weeks away. With every week it goes less likely; as disappointing as that may be this is still 20 more episodes than "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" got, 6-7 more episodes than the 2002 "MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE" series got, and at 46 episodes I think this will be the longest run any non-Batman show has gotten at DC Animation since "JLU" and "TEEN TITANS" ended in 2006.

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:53 AM   #92
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Some nice info there. But I agree sucks they don't want to give out episode info.

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Old 09-05-2012, 11:39 PM   #93
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Some nice info there. But I agree sucks they don't want to give out episode info.
Agreed. I can't quite figure out why CN changed their policy. I mean, usually what releasing that data would do was build buzz for the episodes online, which has to translate to ratings. Maybe they feared tipping off pirates? They always know anyway.

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Old 09-06-2012, 08:26 AM   #94
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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Agreed. I can't quite figure out why CN changed their policy. I mean, usually what releasing that data would do was build buzz for the episodes online, which has to translate to ratings. Maybe they feared tipping off pirates? They always know anyway.
My guess would be the listing services are now paying Cartoon Network to be the only ones to have the listing data ahead of time, and CN is no longer going to give it away freely. I expect the week before an episode we will still get a logline and clips/pictures, but we won't have loglines at the beginning of the month anymore.

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Old 09-06-2012, 08:53 AM   #95
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

I'm hoping that it's 4 different tv shows in rotation.

So, when YJ and GL: TAS end this season, it switches to FTB & Teen Titans, and when that season ends it goes back.


It could mean big things for DC.

I just dont remember a time when there was that much DC on television!

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Old 09-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #96
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Don't get you hopes up for that (very logical) wish...

I firmly believe Young Justice and Green Lantern are done for come Spring 2013...

Young Justice gets replaced by Teen Titans Go!

Green Lantern: The Animated Series gets replaced by Beware the Batman.

Plus... who knows? A CGI Superman show could be in the works as we speak. I'm sure they'd gladly sacrifice GL for it.

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:02 AM   #97
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

I'd be happy with a similar style as green lantern for superman.

Heck, even if they feel the need to combine the two universes.

(Why does it always gotta be bats/supes )

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Old 09-06-2012, 07:17 PM   #98
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Totally dread why drop promoting shows more so us fans/viewers. Knowbwhat to expect. I like knowing at least a month coming what to expect so I can make sure not to miss things. But oh well hopefully we are able to still get inffo by other means.

As for schedule I too have said a rotating block would be the best thing for wb/cn to do. So when show is on season break/mid season break, cn has something new to air and rotates new things in and out. But if they drop gl/yj it be a stupid move. But when arint the execs doing stupid moves.

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Old 09-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #99
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

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I've noticed. And by "others" that's Barry and Impulse since I don't think there are other speedsters. While Superman and Superboy do move/fly/jump fast Greg Weisman said they're not on par with speedsters, right? Hilariously, Superboy got in a cool looking "super flurry of punches" move.
Superboy getting a "super flurry of punches move" in doesn't make him an interesting character.

Quote:
sometimes even more than "AULD ACQUAINTANCE", but man, Kid-Flash may as well have stayed aboard the Bio-Ship. Sportsmaster dropped him like 3rd period French. Keep in mind this is also the guy Red Arrow once got in a grappling move in "INSECURITY". So I guess Clone Roy has better reaction time than Wally.
How do you know the RA-Sportsmaster fight "wasn't for show". Also this harkins back to what I keep saying. You make it sound like Sportsmaster soundly defeated Wally. He didn't, he just got a lucky shot in. Wally wasn't knocked out from that. For all you know if the fight had went longer. Sportsmaster might've had trouble with Wally. Saying Sportsmaster outright beat Wally there, is like saying the "Ciclops guy" (can't remember his name, sorry), beat Conner just because in Insecurity he spotted Conner and blasted him a distance, but he wasn't beat, just shoved aside momentarily.

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My issue is it usually seems too many villains can deal with someone like that to the point that Kid-Flash is really no more useful than any non-powered team member like Batgirl, Robin, or Nightwing. Which wouldn't get my goat so much if Superboy couldn't scream and overpower virtually anyone when he has to.
Obviously were watching different shows because I've seen episodes where non-powered villains have been shown to be able to hold their own against Conner. Or do you not remember Sportsmasters first appearance?

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As I have said, liking Wally in animation has usually proven to be a frustrating affair. I seem to always attach to him for some reason - usually the sense of humor - and I spend about as much time rooting for him as I do rolling my eyes because some bloke has yet again tripped him with marbles.
You act as if that's all there is to him.

Quote:
"The rest of the world" is happy with the ship that they don't really care if Kid-Flash runs into walls a lot or is just a spare body in most team missions.
I've already pointed out ad nauseum why Wally is not just a spare body on the field or how he didn't do some of that "clumsy stuff" later on (guess that doesn't count for development unless the show spells it out for us?), so I'm not going to even bother.

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I seem to recall you dismissing some people who were guessing about a "time skip" when the first screen shots of "HAPPY NEW YEAR" hit the 'net.
So that's one.

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Penguin didn't mention that incident in the "ALMOST GOT 'IM" episode. And nothing diminishes Batman's credibility. You also dismissed my other examples, because they don't matter to you, fine.
I never said he did. I was just making an example of how a villain could use a story like that, to make a hero sound less heroic.

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I see them so often that they become imprinted in my brain. I rarely see the alternative.
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I think Wally did need more screen time, yes. "COLDHEARTED" in Season 1 felt long overdue to me.
Outside of "cool Michael Bay action scenes", what exactly did he need?

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You didn't ask a question; you asked and answered your own question. Therefore, it is a statement.
More like I was trying to prove a point.

Quote:
If "YJ:I" is showing restraint, then I think Weisman and Vietti should have found some more fat to trim. Wonder Girl may be fine and while it is nice to expand Wonder Woman's influence a little, she seems to have no purpose to the team besides being an extra member. She wasn't built up in Season 1 like Batgirl, Bumblebee, Beast Boy and even Mal were, nor does she seem to be as key to the subplot as Blue Beetle is. She shouldn't be there, then. I know it's an homage to the comic of the same name, but this show has rarely given a damn about the actual YJ comic beyond having Red Tornado around (which he isn't anymore), so why start now?
And Superboy appearing alot, and living in Mt. Justice.

You do know that Wonder Girl was a character that was off limits in season 1, right?

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I doubt Vandal Savage lost any sleep over it. Like I said, it is a matter of presentation. Probably the most notable thing is "The Light" didn't really gain anything from it. They typically gain something even from losses, such as information or leverage. Aside for proving they could blanket half the nation in snow whenever they wanted, they really didn't gain a thing.
I don't think Savage loses sleep over much. I'll wager that Vertigo probably did. Also notable, is that ONE PERSON stopped The Light from reaching their goal, and nothing was gained. Name another time ONE PERSON stopped The Light from achieving something, and they didn't gain a thing from it.

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So why is Katana and not Cassandra Cain in "BEWARE THE BATMAN"?
Ask the producers who made the show.

Quote:
Noted. Like I said, while I imagine both Wally and Artemis were in mutual agreement with retiring whenever they did, the desire to return to "the life" returned for Artemis and hasn't for Wally. Naturally I imagine the show will get into the burden and stress of being that undercover for Artemis, since in such missions one risks losing themselves to "the role". Here she's struggled mightily to avoid becoming a criminal operative like her father and sister, and now she's going to have to pretend to be one to such a convincing degree that she's going to straddle a very fine line. Which is very engaging and interesting - and has nothing to do with Wally to work.
Except she's going to be worrying about being away from Wally while undercover.

Quote:
Wally's subplot is he's worried about Artemis. That's the difference; Artemis can support her own independent subplots, and Wally can't in this show, for some reason.
No Wally's subplot is going to be coming to grips about his insecurities as a speedster compared to Barry and/or Bart.


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Old 09-07-2012, 02:52 AM   #100
Dread
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0derix View Post
My guess would be the listing services are now paying Cartoon Network to be the only ones to have the listing data ahead of time, and CN is no longer going to give it away freely. I expect the week before an episode we will still get a logline and clips/pictures, but we won't have loglines at the beginning of the month anymore.
That makes sense. Thanks for the lead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grommers View Post
I'm hoping that it's 4 different tv shows in rotation.

So, when YJ and GL: TAS end this season, it switches to FTB & Teen Titans, and when that season ends it goes back.


It could mean big things for DC.

I just dont remember a time when there was that much DC on television!
That is a good idea but I seriously doubt the execs at CN will capitalize. I'd love to be wrong, though. I do think "YJ" and "GL:TAS" will end in 2013 and make way for "TEEN TITANS GO!" and "BEWARE THE BATMAN". If not I will be pleasantly surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webhead2006 View Post
Totally dread why drop promoting shows more so us fans/viewers. Knowbwhat to expect. I like knowing at least a month coming what to expect so I can make sure not to miss things. But oh well hopefully we are able to still get inffo by other means.

As for schedule I too have said a rotating block would be the best thing for wb/cn to do. So when show is on season break/mid season break, cn has something new to air and rotates new things in and out. But if they drop gl/yj it be a stupid move. But when arint the execs doing stupid moves.
I certainly enjoyed over analyzing the episode titles and trying to gauge the course of the show from blurbs. At least a trickle down one at a time exists. And I think most people are in agreement about a better strategy for CN to take than they likely will.

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