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Old 08-27-2012, 01:31 AM   #301
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

I, for one, am glad that this Selina Kyle wasn't obsessed with the feline species in this film. I mean, her motif came across well enough without any name-drops or a plethora of cat puns.

Loved the newspaper headlines and her line "Cat got your tongue?". Clearly a cat persona that she adopted, but she wasn't a slave to it...as Catwoman was in BR or as Bruce is a slave to the Batman persona inside him.

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Old 08-27-2012, 03:36 AM   #302
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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I, for one, am glad that this Selina Kyle wasn't obsessed with the feline species in this film. I mean, her motif came across well enough without any name-drops or a plethora of cat puns.

Loved the newspaper headlines and her line "Cat got your tongue?". Clearly a cat persona that she adopted, but she wasn't a slave to it...
Yeah, I liked what they did here with this incarnation. Something a bit different but entirely legitimate. The idea if you saw her on CCTV footage you'd have the funny realisation that hey, that cat burglar actually looks quite like a cat. "Police suspect 'cat' burglar in jewel heist." The apostrophe around cat, a little wink wink. I liked that the suit was something she wore for a job, same with the goggles. She wasn't going out of her way (she was going out to crack safes first and foremost), but as you said, played up to it a few times ala the cat got your tongue line.

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:46 AM   #303
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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I, for one, am glad that this Selina Kyle wasn't obsessed with the feline species in this film. I mean, her motif came across well enough without any name-drops or a plethora of cat puns.

Loved the newspaper headlines and her line "Cat got your tongue?". Clearly a cat persona that she adopted, but she wasn't a slave to it...as Catwoman was in BR or as Bruce is a slave to the Batman persona inside him.
Well I would've still liked to have seen a cat that belonged to Selina. She wouldn't have to be obsessed with it, but it could've lived in her apartment and just been there in the background, much like the cat in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Perhaps even Jen could play with that pussy occasionally.

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Old 08-27-2012, 07:40 AM   #304
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Thank you Cassandra Cain and Alex Logan.

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Old 08-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #305
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Bottom line, there's plenty of room for a variety of interpretations.

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Old 08-27-2012, 10:02 AM   #306
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Bottom line, there's plenty of room for a variety of interpretations.
Indeed. Now if we can just get other people to understand this concept.

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Old 08-27-2012, 11:26 AM   #307
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Excellent analysis from Drew on Selina/Catwoman:

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-capture...d-and-the-ugly

Quote:
SELINA KYLE

Nolan's version of the character is interesting because he goes out of his way to never call her Catwoman. She's referred to as a cat burglar in some newspaper stories we see, and she's got those goggles that somewhat resemble cat ears when she pushed them up onto the top of her head, but she's not Catwoman. She's just Selina Kyle, a shrewd and cynical operator making a living on the margins of Gotham's criminal underworld. Her first encounter with Bruce Wayne isn't quite what it appears, and not just because she disguises herself as one of the caterers to gain access to his home. He catches her wearing a necklace that belonged to his mother, and she manages to escape with it, but Bruce quickly figures out that she was not there to steal the necklace or, for that matter, anything. She was there to get his fingerprints. It's the first warning shot for Bruce that someone has some plan regarding him, and from that strange, seemingly harmless crime, his entire downfall is eventually engineered.

Selina's important to the film for several reasons, the first of which is that she seems to believe at the start of the film that there should be a class revolution. She talks to Bruce on the dance floor about the storm that is coming, and it's obvious Selina has contempt for people who have money. She's got herself convinced that she speaks for exploited women, and that she's better than the people she steals from because she knows what it's like to go hungry. Her relationship with Holly, the character played by Juno Temple, is etched in just a few scenes, but there is a connection between them that it's apparent Selina does not feel for any man. Selina's not the sort of woman to depend on anyone, and while she is intrigued by Bruce from the moment they meet, she also thinks of him as part of the problem. Once she encounters him in full costume as Batman, though, he begins to break through that external armor of hers. As with John Blake, I don't think there's a moment in the film where Selina's not entirely sure who Bruce is once she sees him in costume. Even then, she's still not sold that there is any way she gets to leave behind this life that she's built for herself. Her motivation in the film is something called "the clean slate," a magical computer program that will lift her out of every database on the planet so Selina Kyle simply disappears as if she never existed. That isn't just bait for Bruce to use to try to get Selina to help him… it also becomes the promise of a life he's given up on ever having for himself.

While Selina is a valuable ally for him once he returns to liberate Gotham, the real value for him in their relationship is that Selina finally offers him an alternative to Rachel, someone who can accept him with his terribly flawed personal history and his barely functional pathology. She is just as bruised by life as he is, and like Bruce, she has her beliefs put to the test by the events in the film. Once she gets the revolution she thought she wanted, she sees that it's a world she can't abide, a world in which there are still wolves and sheep. She bought the idea that revolution would make everyone equal, and when she sees how awful things become in Gotham, it is the final step in her transition into the woman we see sitting with Bruce in that cafe at the end of the film. Bruce's faith in her isn't based on her behavior. After all, she's the one who walks him directly into Bane's trap. Instead, it's based on the potential that he sees in her, and having him see her that way seems to affect her, somewhat against her will.

Hathaway's performance is filled with tiny grace notes, from the way she backflips out a window or the way she sheds her disguise as she walks or the way she plays hysterical when the police bust into the bar where she's trying to get paid for stealing Wayne's fingerprints. It's one of my favorite things she's done on film, and she manages to create an iconic performance without simply imitating earlier variations on the role. There's nothing she does here that would connect her work to what Michelle Pfeiffer did, and that's great. It's one more way this stands as a unique take on the characters and the situations. Even when there's a scene that feels almost identical to a scene from 1992's "Batman Returns," with Bruce and Selina on a dance floor during a masquerade, they play out entirely differently. In the Burton film, Bruce and Selina are the only two who show up without masks, the joke being that they are almost always masked so their "real" faces feel more like disguises at this point. Their dance becomes a reveal as he lets her know that he's aware of who she is, and he tells her just enough that she realizes who he is. When Selina's eyes fill with sudden tears, disappointed and heartbroken, and she asks, "Does this mean we have to fight now?", it's one of the most human moments in any Burton film, sad and weird and beautifully played. In Nolan's film, the dance is a chance for Bruce to try to talk Selina into doing the right thing, the first of many conversations on the subject, and she grows angry with him for playing to her conscience. It's more about his growing fascination with her than anything else, and her anger in the scene reveals just how deeply-seated her hatred of Gotham's ruling class really is.

In the end, she is as important to Bruce's final plan as John Blake, and while Blake is purely good, a strong personality who embodies much of what Bruce has always aspired to be, Selina is much closer to the person he really is, flawed and weak and angry. Helping her find redemption also redeems him, and I love that he never becomes her savior. She is just as strong as him, if not stronger in many ways, and even in that last fight, it is her willingness to do the things he can't that saves him. When they show up in that final scene, that's not Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle anymore. They've left those names and all of that baggage behind, and those people have an unwritten life ahead, something neither one of them still believed was possible. It may be the most uplifting ending of Nolan's career so far, and I think Hathaway's particular presence, both physically and emotionally, is a big part of making it all seem plausible.

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Old 08-27-2012, 12:46 PM   #308
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Originally Posted by kvz5 View Post
Excellent analysis from Drew on Selina/Catwoman:

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-capture...d-and-the-ugly
Great read! Do you have a link to first part?

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Old 08-27-2012, 01:00 PM   #309
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Great read! Do you have a link to first part?
Here:

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-capture...ns-magic-trick

The analysis on Bruce at the first part talks a lot about Selina too.

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Old 08-27-2012, 02:23 PM   #310
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Thank you, this analysis is so beautifully written and correct in my opinion. I absolutely love it!

My favourite part - one regarding Blake
Quote:
As a result, it's not just convenient that he shows up as a potential replacement for Bruce. Instead, Bruce realizes that this guy is the endgame, the one who should be Batman. The symbol is important because it inspired Blake in the first place, and Bruce knows that he's leaving things in more able hands than his own. Bruce is not strong enough to keep playing the part, but more than that, he knows the ways he's failed. He knows what compromises he's made, and he knows what he's lost because of this thing he's created. Batman has inspired Blake, and Bruce realizes that he may not be the one who was meant to wear the suit in the first place

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Old 08-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #311
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Ha, that's actually one of the few things in his article that didn't sit well with me. I don't mind the whole successor thing but I'm not a fan of this sudden idea that Blake was the one meant to be Batman after all and not Bruce. It's almost like they're underselling everything that Bruce went through and showing those as a weakness just to sell the idea that Blake is much better fit to be Batman than Bruce. But I digresss... I don't want to derail this thread since this is the Anne/Catwoman thread.

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Old 08-27-2012, 03:41 PM   #312
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Ha, that's actually one of the few things in his article that didn't sit well with me. I don't mind the whole successor thing but I'm not a fan of this sudden idea that Blake was the one meant to be Batman after all and not Bruce. It's almost like they're underselling everything that Bruce went through and showing those as a weakness just to sell the idea that Blake is much better fit to be Batman than Bruce. But I digresss... I don't want to derail this thread since this is the Anne/Catwoman thread.
Agreed. At minimum, Blake hasn't had Bruce's training and is probably going to have to practice for years to get up to Bruce's level. Furthermore, Blake's admitted to being an angry individual so I don't see how he's more psychologically healthy than Bruce.

Besides, if Blake is the more perfect Batman it makes me wonder why we didn't get a trilogy about him.

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Old 08-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #313
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Originally Posted by kvz5 View Post
Here:

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-capture...ns-magic-trick

The analysis on Bruce at the first part talks a lot about Selina too.
Thank you.

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Old 08-27-2012, 04:07 PM   #314
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Agreed. At minimum, Blake hasn't had Bruce's training and is probably going to have to practice for years to get up to Bruce's level. Furthermore, Blake's admitted to being an angry individual so I don't see how he's more psychologically healthy than Bruce.

Besides, if Blake is the more perfect Batman it makes me wonder why we didn't get a trilogy about him.
Yup. I also don't agree in his write-up on Selina when she was compared to Bruce and they were contrasted to Blake. Both Bruce and Selina are definitely flawed but they are far from weak at any aspect.

Quote:
while Blake is purely good, a strong personality who embodies much of what Bruce has always aspired to be, Selina is much closer to the person he really is, flawed and weak and angry

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Old 08-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #315
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Well, I wouldn't call him weak, also, but he is indeed broken. Blake still has some innocence in him, just like Bruce had in BB maybe that's why he decided to make him his successor.
Bruce is much more interesting as a character than Blake, plus we've seen him grow and change throughout the trilogy.

kvz5, I agree that the word weak is not the best choice here.


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Old 08-27-2012, 08:21 PM   #316
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Bruce I believe picked Blake as his successor because he saw a younger version of himself in Blake, and like with Selina, he saw many potential in him. I agree that weak isn't the best word to choose for Bruce and Selina, but I don't see much weakness in Blake either just because he's an ex cop. I agree that I don't think he was the true one to be Batman and not Bruce, and that he'll probably need some extra training to be up at Bruce's level, but still people are being too hard on the character I believe. And I don't see why people think he'll suit up right away without any expert training, and I think he proved a couple times in the movie that he can put up somewhat of a fight. On the same level as Bruce? Definitely not. Bruce just saw potential in him, kind of like the same way Ra's saw in Bruce at the beginning of BB, and wanted him to expand his skills is the way I see it.

Great article overall though especially about Bruce and Selina.

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Old 08-27-2012, 08:22 PM   #317
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Yup. I also don't agree in his write-up on Selina when she was compared to Bruce and they were contrasted to Blake. Both Bruce and Selina are definitely flawed but they are far from weak at any aspect.
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Well, I wouldn't call him weak, also, but he is indeed broken. Blake still has some innocence in him, just like Bruce had in BB maybe that's why he decided to make him his successor.
Bruce is much more interesting as a character than Blake, plus we've seen him grow and chance throughout the trilogy.

kvz5, I agree that the word weak is not the best choice here.
Both of you make great points.

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Old 08-28-2012, 11:00 AM   #318
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Blake has a few luxuries that Bruce didn't have such as police training and the legend of the Batman. By legend, I mean Batman is believed to be dead and has been recognized as a hero. At the least I could see Blake in either the same cape/cowl or a similar outfit as part of a special division of the Gotham Police, working under Gordon.

To bring things back on topic, am I right in thinking that Selina took the congressman to her meeting with Dagget as insurance (to keep Dagget from killing her?)?

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Old 08-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #319
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

I think she took him, and his phone, so that she could have access to a SWAT team at a moment's notice.

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Old 08-28-2012, 11:50 AM   #320
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

^ Yup. She basically used the congressman as bait so the SWAT would swarm the place and can provide her the distraction she needs to get away if the **** hits the fan.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:09 PM   #321
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

Love the scene where she starts screaming like a damsel in distress

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:51 PM   #322
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Love the scene where she starts screaming like a damsel in distress
Me too.

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Old 08-29-2012, 06:30 AM   #323
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Love the scene where she starts screaming like a damsel in distress
She is hysterical.

Just back from my second viewing and I still love Selina to bits. Definitely noticed that Bruce was intrigued the first moment he set eyes on her wearing his mother's pearls, haha. He recognizes that she's like him - she's trapped in a lifestyle she acknowledges is harmful, but she also holds a certain pleasure in what she does and what she can do well. She has fun breaking the law, even though she's ready to move on.

The fact that he drags her almost kicking and screaming into being a good guy also makes me

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Old 08-29-2012, 07:11 PM   #324
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Ha, that's actually one of the few things in his article that didn't sit well with me. I don't mind the whole successor thing but I'm not a fan of this sudden idea that Blake was the one meant to be Batman after all and not Bruce. It's almost like they're underselling everything that Bruce went through and showing those as a weakness just to sell the idea that Blake is much better fit to be Batman than Bruce. But I digresss... I don't want to derail this thread since this is the Anne/Catwoman thread.
Blake is "meant to be" Batman as much as Bruce was; as well as whoever replaces Blake. The point is that Batman is an everlasting symbol and can be anyone. Now if you are of the notion that only Bruce should be Batman (a notion not supported by the comics) that is a different argument. But I don't see how Bruce has been undersold now that someone else is Batman. His arc is done.

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Old 08-29-2012, 11:18 PM   #325
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

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Well I would've still liked to have seen a cat that belonged to Selina. She wouldn't have to be obsessed with it, but it could've lived in her apartment and just been there in the background, much like the cat in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Perhaps even Jen could play with that pussy occasionally.
I see what you did there.

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