Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXXIII

[Fudgie]

I'm talking big gun in this franchise not in all of Hollywood. His acting is the best the Nolan Batman movies got. People went nuts when they saw him in the TDK trailer in December 2007. Hathaway never got that sort of response from the public. Not in the trailers or in the movie. That's coming from someone who thinks she was the best thing in this lousy flick.

[-JKR-]

People went crazy because --- of course --- there's a lot more to the Joker which would make one go crazy. The voice, the posture, the look, his mannerism. Would you think people would go THAT crazy, had he portrayed John Blake? Now honestly!
As for the "lousy flick." To each his own.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by -JKR-

Hannibal Lecter is still a very different character. He's an extremely sick character. He wants to eat people with a good Chianti, for God's sake. Of course it's a more chilling performance, which gets easier under your skin.

The Scarecrow drugs and terrorizes people with their worst fears, puts on a freaky Scarecrow mask, experiments on the patients at Arkham, set Batman on fire etc. On paper he sounds chilling, too, but Murphy's performance is not held up as something spectacular.

Again it's about the acting put into the character, not the character type. You can have the scariest character in the world written into a script, but without a great actor to pull it off you've got nothing.

But, personally, while still liking them very much, I don't think Bryan Singer's X-men (they are part of the most memorable comic book adaptations together with Nolan's trilogy, Tim Burton's Batman movies, Sam Raimi's Spider-man 1 & 2, Richard Donner's Superman, Blade 1 & 2, the first Iron Man movie, and some others) movies are on par with Nolan's.

I think it's best we don't start a discussion about the quality of different comic book movies, too lol.

Personally, I honestly don't know why one would make connections to Heath's Joker when discussing Anne Hathaway's portrayal in this movie, but maybe that's just me!

Here's where it started;

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=671

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=673

Originally Posted by -JKR-

People went crazy because --- of course --- there's a lot more to the Joker which would make one go crazy. The voice, the posture, the look, his mannerism. Would you think people would go THAT crazy, had he portrayed John Blake? Now honestly!
As for the "lousy flick." To each his own.

John Blake was a do-gooder Cop character with moral posturing dialogue. No great actor could make that an exciting role. Look at Oldman and Gordon to see how you make a great Cop character fans get excited over.

[-JKR-]

And that's where it should have ended honestly. Because the more it went on, the more it became illogical. The performance wasn't quite on that level because the character didn't DEMAND her to be on that level. in that case it's Heath who reached incredible levels (but that's ALSO thanks to a role that DEMANDED that level), not her who was subpar or dissapointing. Because she delivered.

[shauner111]

You can't compare 2 styles of acting from 2 very different characters. If Anne was playing Harley Quinn maybe you can compare, because her role would have possibly required her to be loud and charismatic and sometimes over the top at all times. Nolans Selina was different from Nolans Joker.

It's like comparing a performance on a song by some hardcore punk band or hip-hop group to say...another genre that's a little more subtle and not as off the wall all the time. There is just zero comparison, it's silly. Both can be at the top of their game. Different styles, different types of writing require a different performance. It's what the song calls for.

A good example would be Aaron Eckhart to Heath Ledger in TDK. Many feel like Heath had the better performance. I disagree. Aaron, to me, was on par. It's just that he wasnt crazy all the time so he wont get the credit. But he nailed what was on the page completely. He created a fantastic performance even though it was more subtle than Joker. Just because you're volume level is on 11 at all times doesn't make the quieter actor any less of an acting performance. It's a misconception that alot of people eat up.

Anne even transformed herself more than Aaron Eckhart did. She played up to the charisma of the character when needed but there were alot of quiet moments too and she executed them just as well as Heath executed his louder scenes.

It's a big misconception to think that the more one transforms and executes a crazy performance, that the better the quality is. You serve the role. Heath's is the most memorable without a doubt but it was no greater than Selina or Bale's Bruce or Caine's Alfred (in Rises especially).

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by shauner111

You can't compare 2 styles of acting from 2 very different characters.

Yes you can. Where is this stupid notion coming from? Acting is acting. Which is a stronger performance can always be compared.

It's like comparing a performance on a song by some hardcore punk band or hip-hop group to say...another genre that's a little more subtle and not as off the wall all the time. There is just zero comparison, it's silly. Both can be at the top of their game. Different styles, different types of writing require a different performance. It's what the song calls for.

That's different. Music artists are classified by the type of music they play. Some bands only play rock, or Jazz, or punk music etc. Great actors are versatile to play any kind of role. Look at all the different kinds of roles Gary Oldman has done for example. You can't classify him the way you can classify a singer or a band. That's why you can compare acting performances for different characters. It's still acting. That's why it's called acting, too. You pretend to be any kind of character.

A good example would be Aaron Eckhart to Heath Ledger in TDK. Many feel like Heath had the better performance. I disagree. Aaron, to me, was on par. It's just that he wasnt crazy all the time so he wont get the credit. But he nailed what was on the page completely. He created a fantastic performance even though it was more subtle than Joker. Just because you're volume level is on 11 at all times doesn't make the quieter actor any less of an acting performance. It's a misconception that alot of people eat up.

That's what you and JKR are getting completely wrong. Nobody is saying because Heath's character was louder and more flamboyant he had the edge. Jim Carey's Riddler was loud and flamboyant. Did he have an edge, too?

I agree that Aaron Eckhart's acting could be argued to be on par with Heath's. He delivered a truly soulful performance. That final scene with Gordon's family alone elevates his acting skills to be a contender with Heath's.

Anne even transformed herself more than Aaron Eckhart did. She played up to the charisma of the character when needed but there were alot of quiet moments too and she executed them just as well as Heath executed his louder scenes.

Anne was charismatic and had the great quiet moments. They were not up to the standard of Aaron or Heath's performances.

It's a big misconception to think that the more one transforms and executes a crazy performance, that the better the quality is.

Very true. Which is why I'm wondering why you and JKR keep saying that when nobody else has.

Heath's is the most memorable without a doubt but it was no greater than Selina or Bale's Bruce or Caine's Alfred (in Rises especially).

Oh it most certainly was more memorable and greater. No question about that. Good as they were, they just did not achieve what Heath achieved in terms of acting.

Here check out this thread: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...ghlight=acting

How many number 1 spots did Heath make? The majority.

[Nave 'Torment']

Oh god I hate playing catch up with these... but heck, both Alex Logan and Van Patrol's "opinions" are valid. Nolan's always surrounded himself with promising actors, and despite his "troupe" I do believe he's given all his actors the fair share of spot to shine. Make no mistake that these Batman films really are an ensemble. I for one think that even ol' Caine's performance as Alfred and those subtle exchanges he has with Christian's Bruce Wayne are some of the most memorable parts about these movies. Same with Freemans' Fox, etc.

The reason why these characters will be memorable also has a lot to do with the way they've been scripted. Rachel Dawse has been one of the most bland and publically-reviled creations in this series and yet I think they did an excellent job with the way she stands as this traditional heroic-damsel-in-distress figure. She's been the "high school girlfriend" / "Lana Lang" figure here, been part of a love-triangle with Bruce and Harvey, and even got herself killed for maximum melodrama, and yet these films do not put Batman's romantic life as the center of the story. They don't over-do it, and I think that sort of balance has to be credited back to the script. So even though we have a genuine lack of traditional Hollywood chemistry between Christian Bale and Maggie Gyllenhaal, thanks to the way the script was written out, an audience can see that as a genuine lack of "spark" between the two characters. Something that you won't be insisting with Anne Hathaway's performance and interaction with Bale.

So to say who was more memorable, Joker or Catwoman. Well, I love me some Kubrick so that's were Heath's performance has an added bonus. I also love me some Audrey Hepburn and Anne sold that look. I think it's a tie. Joker, Catwoman, and Scarecrow -- classic Batman villains in almost every incarnation, I think we got the sort of interpretations for these characters, symbolic or otherwise, that's going to take a good many revisions to be better.

[Bane Cook]

Heath had more to work with. Also does anyone know if those pictures of the trilogy cases in the picture thread are real?

[Nave 'Torment']

They are.

I think they all had a fair amount to work with. These are very popular characters to begin and the iconography of the Joker and Catwoman, and saying who is more iconic is open to debate. I personally think it is Catwoman because her popularity extends beyond the Batman franchise. More women dress up as cats and find it exotic than people do dressing up as a terrifying clown-man.

But of course, you can argue that in this particular trilogy with its reinterpretations, the Joker did get a complete overhaul that Catwoman didn't. But as an actor? Anne had to look sexy, and Heath had to look scary. I say neither had to struggle... much

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

They are.

I think they all had a fair amount to work with. These are very popular characters to begin and the iconography of the Joker and Catwoman, and saying who is more iconic is open to debate. I personally think it is Catwoman because her popularity extends beyond the Batman franchise. More women dress up as cats and find it exotic than people do dressing up as a terrifying clown-man.

But of course, you can argue that in this particular trilogy with its reinterpretations, the Joker did get a complete overhaul that Catwoman didn't. But as an actor? Anne had to look sexy, and Heath had to look scary. I say neither had to struggle... much

I'd have to disagree with that. Joker is easily the more popular. The Joker has transcended Batman and is not only one of the most popular comic villains, but villains period. Heath's perfromance only added to that.

The Joker is huge. Look at all the Bat-films we've had in the past 23 years. There's a reason the two most successful (in their respective franchises) included the Joker.

[Nave 'Torment']

No but look at it this way: the Joker is nothing without Batman. You can't imagine a stand-alone Joker movie. It just wouldn't make sense. In terms of popularity the Joker is Batman's greatest villain. Catwoman, on the other hand, can stand on her own even in terms of popularity. I'm not talking about that terrible spin-off movie (obviously) but more in terms of how the iconography of Catwoman in pop-culture has its own place beyond the Batman franchise -- the halloween costumes, women dressed as catwoman, even in domino-masks, all of that goes back to Selina Kyle. The Joker doesn't have that.

[the last son]

When the gates close and Batman and she says this is the only way they wouldn't kill me, why would they kill her. I know they had that little rumble on the roof but that was more of a beef with Dagget. Wouldn't Bane appreciate that. Maybe, I missed something but how do Bane and her even know each other? Why should Blake be as afraid as she was of Bane?

[-JKR-]

It's quite clear (and implicit) that she either met or was contacted by Bane or his men after the rumble on the roof. She told Blake to be afraid of Bane as a warning to not take him lightly, and underrate him (which the GCPD basically did when they decided to hunt down Batman instead of getting Bane). Blake was probably one of the few who didn't, and believed Gordon when he was talking about the underground army (while others made jokes about crocodiles in the sewers), even though he most likely wasn't as scared as her, having never met him, and not knowing yet was he was capable of.

[AnneFan]

Awesome move by Anne.

Anne Hathaway has promised to boost the coffers of her favorite charities by donating the money she received for selling her wedding photographs.

The Dark Knight Rises star walked down the aisle with her fiancé Adam Shulman last month, and sold several happy pictures of their big day to selected media outlets.

The profits raised from the sale will go to good causes, including Freedom to Marry, which campaigns for gay couples to have the right to wed across the U.S.

Hathaway has backed the legalization of same-sex marriage since revealing in 2008 that her brother is gay.

The money will also be split between the American Cancer Society, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, and The Girl Effect, which helps impoverished young women.

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index....wedding_photo_

[Nave 'Torment']

Aw, look at Anne, leading such a functioning and normal life while we tremble awkwardly to find some sense of normalcy in ours :')

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

Well I don't know that we can really talk about "Heath level" of performance from Anne. The role wasn't as anarchic or even over the top as the Joker so it didn't call for that type of performance. If Anne played it like that or even like how Michelle Pfieffer played it, we would all be complaining that she wasn't playing the Selina Kyle from the comics but still going for this psycho character who isn't quite mentally stable.

So I think Anne played it the way she needed to play it, and performed extremely well in the role. If Heath hadn't played the Joker but a more subdued or understated character like John Blake, for example, would we still be talking about a "Heath level" of performance even from him? That's an unnecessary pedestal that even he might not have been able to reach in other situations.

Exaclty. Heath was able to do whatever he wanted with that role. Putting him on impossible pedestal doesn't even makes sense. Heath set the bar and Anne followed with an amazing preformance. Enough said.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Truth. Hathaway didn't come close to it.

No, it's an opinion. This is the impossible pedestal that I was talking about.

Originally Posted by Fudgie

I'm talking big gun in this franchise not in all of Hollywood. His acting is the best the Nolan Batman movies got. People went nuts when they saw him in the TDK trailer in December 2007. Hathaway never got that sort of response from the public. Not in the trailers or in the movie. That's coming from someone who thinks she was the best thing in this lousy flick.

Please... don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by -JKR-

You're talking about fanboy delusion? Heath was starting to become a big gun ( after having done Brokeback Mountain and thanks to his role in The Dark Knight), but unfortunately died too soon. Calling him a "big gun" (he was a very good actor and did deliver the performance of a lifetime in TDK), when few would call him big gun prior to that performance, and most would jump out of the window out of desperation when he was cast back in 2006 (casting since I never had a problem with; I was in for the surprise, mostly since I've loved his performance in Brothers Grimm bac then and was sure he'd manage to dissapear in to such a character role)... now that's fanboy delusion.
I've never liked bandwagon-ing.

Personally, I honestly don't know why one would make connections to Heath's Joker when discussing Anne Hathaway's portrayal in this movie, but maybe that's just me! It's as illogical as interviewers asking Tom Hardy how he felt playing Bane after Heath Ledger's performance in TDK ( though I can understand why that question came up, since Heath's Joker was such a beloved character), to which Hardy responded in the most logical way: "Heath did a great job, but I'm playing another character."

Agreed. Unfortunately, you just can't reason with some people.

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

Oh god I hate playing catch up with these... but heck, both Alex Logan and Van Patrol's "opinions" are valid. Nolan's always surrounded himself with promising actors, and despite his "troupe" I do believe he's given all his actors the fair share of spot to shine. Make no mistake that these Batman films really are an ensemble. I for one think that even ol' Caine's performance as Alfred and those subtle exchanges he has with Christian's Bruce Wayne are some of the most memorable parts about these movies. Same with Freemans' Fox, etc.

The reason why these characters will be memorable also has a lot to do with the way they've been scripted. Rachel Dawse has been one of the most bland and publically-reviled creations in this series and yet I think they did an excellent job with the way she stands as this traditional heroic-damsel-in-distress figure. She's been the "high school girlfriend" / "Lana Lang" figure here, been part of a love-triangle with Bruce and Harvey, and even got herself killed for maximum melodrama, and yet these films do not put Batman's romantic life as the center of the story. They don't over-do it, and I think that sort of balance has to be credited back to the script. So even though we have a genuine lack of traditional Hollywood chemistry between Christian Bale and Maggie Gyllenhaal, thanks to the way the script was written out, an audience can see that as a genuine lack of "spark" between the two characters. Something that you won't be insisting with Anne Hathaway's performance and interaction with Bale.

So to say who was more memorable, Joker or Catwoman. Well, I love me some Kubrick so that's were Heath's performance has an added bonus. I also love me some Audrey Hepburn and Anne sold that look. I think it's a tie. Joker, Catwoman, and Scarecrow -- classic Batman villains in almost every incarnation, I think we got the sort of interpretations for these characters, symbolic or otherwise, that's going to take a good many revisions to be better.

Thank you.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Oh it most certainly was more memorable and greater. No question about that. Good as they were, they just did not achieve what Heath achieved in terms of acting.

Do you remember this?

Originally Posted by The Joker

I can totally see now why Jonathan Nolan said all those months ago that Anne threatened to steal the movie.

You think she stole the show, but she's STILL not as good as Ledger's Joker? I think you're a little biased.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Do you remember this?

Vividly.

You think she stole the show, but she's STILL not as good as Ledger's Joker?

Anne did steal the show for me. Her character was the most flamboyant, colorful, witty, and engaging character in the movie. Not to mention the first female character in this trilogy to have an ounce of chemistry with Bale.

That doesn't mean her character or her acting was up to Heath's level.

I think you're a little biased.

And I think you're in denial.

I didn't conjure up these kinds of results out of thin air: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...ghlight=acting

It's hardly bias or coincidence Heath is predominately named the greatest acting performer of Nolan's trilogy. I'm only saying something that most people believe. That's the fact of the matter. In years to come you can bet Heath's acting will still be seen as better than Anne's was.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Anne did steal the show for me. Her character was the most flamboyant, colorful, witty, and engaging character in the movie. Not to mention the first female character in this trilogy to have an ounce of chemistry with Bale.

Getting back to Anne and not Heath...

I loved how Selina was the only character in possibly the entire series (besides Lucius when weapons-shopping) where Bruce didn't seem like he was about to give up on life.

[Excelsior.]

Being graced with an unhinged character doesn't mean you will give a greater performance. Insanity doesn't dictate acting prowess. Remember Casey Afleck in the Assassination of Jesse James of the coward Robert Ford? His character was a chicken****, backstabbing, pathetic slimeball, yet his performance as Robert Ford was genuinely creepy, creepier than Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow who was actually privileged with a character who is supposed to be creepy.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

No, it's an opinion. This is the impossible pedestal that I was talking about.

No it's the general consensus. It deserves it sit on a pedestal, too.

Please... don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

That's me being polite about it. Trust me.

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Being graced with an unhinged character doesn't mean you will give a greater performance. Insanity doesn't dictate acting prowess. Remember Casey Afleck in the Assassination of Jesse James of the coward Robert Ford? His character was a chicken****, backstabbing, pathetic slimeball, yet his performance as Robert Ford was genuinely creepy, creepier than Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow who was actually privileged with a character who is supposed to be creepy.

Truth. The playing a crazy character means you're going to better excuse is bull. You need the acting chops to play a great crazy character or any character. Crazy or sane.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by Anita18

Getting back to Anne and not Heath...

I loved how Selina was the only character in possibly the entire series (besides Lucius when weapons-shopping) where Bruce didn't seem like he was about to give up on life.

That's what I loved about her too. She was a real bright spot in the series. A rose amongst thorns.

Perhaps Bruce compared her to a kiss from a rose on the gray.

[Nave 'Torment']

Originally Posted by Anita18

Getting back to Anne and not Heath...

I loved how Selina was the only character in possibly the entire series (besides Lucius when weapons-shopping) where Bruce didn't seem like he was about to give up on life.

(out of topic but you'll get this -- pot-head girl's immensely fond of cats. And I think I've officially spent too much time thinking about that for the day )