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Old 07-28-2013, 10:55 PM   #876
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

I'm just grateful we have two very cool, legendary live action interpretations of The Joker.

Heath had to follow Jack. The next guy will have to follow Jack AND Heath. And he may not have the benefit of a 20 year gap either. Big clown shoes to fill.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:59 PM   #877
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Don't forget Romero. His version was great, too.

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:02 PM   #878
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Make up over his mustache. He was the craziest Joker of all.

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #879
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Jack Napier was a soulless entity concerned only with his outward appearance and vanity. When that was taken from him, he lost the only thing he cared about - himself - in a bizarre parody of tragedy. This is why he became the "world's first fully functioning homicidal artist." Desecrating all that was good to bring it all down to his level. Joker became a walking incarnation of tragedy, dancing throughout every scene (he dances while killing Grissom, dances when he finds Vicki's picture, dances out of her apartment after seemingly killing Bruce, dances at the top of the clock tower... all are "dances with the devil"). Its no coincidence that the Joker's demise is brought about by a gargoyle, medieval statues placed on buildings to ward off demons and devils.

Bruce, on the other hand, is devoted to stopping the tragedy that befell him from ever occurring again. He is the walking antithesis to tragedy, a shadowy force of justice. The fact that the Joker killed his parents, which is THE defining tragedy for Bruce, only emphasizes this antithesis even more. He's a bit like a living gargoyle, a winged terror meant to combat evil. "Its not a perfect world," he says, because tragedy is real and it exists... but he's out there to fight it to the death all the same.

Vicki is for both characters a sort of mediating force. She's connected to the notion of a normal life. In the darkness of Gotham, she's a bright blonde. She's beautiful. She's charming. She's in some ways an angelic, pure figure. But she's more than a pretty face or an image of good - she's a mediating force because she's acquainted with tragedy - she's photographed war-zones and death. She's a bridge between that tragedy and the idea of a good life. At the same time, however, she doesn't quite understand Bruce and can never fully understand Bruce. She's acquainted with tragedy, but only from behind a camera lens: she's a step removed from it, a step outside it, and while she's fascinated by it (and by Batman) she doesn't really "know" it or understand it.

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:53 PM   #880
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
Jack Napier was a soulless entity concerned only with his outward appearance and vanity. When that was taken from him, he lost the only thing he cared about - himself - in a bizarre parody of tragedy. This is why he became the "world's first fully functioning homicidal artist." Desecrating all that was good to bring it all down to his level. Joker became a walking incarnation of tragedy, dancing throughout every scene (he dances while killing Grissom, dances when he finds Vicki's picture, dances out of her apartment after seemingly killing Bruce, dances at the top of the clock tower... all are "dances with the devil"). Its no coincidence that the Joker's demise is brought about by a gargoyle, medieval statues placed on buildings to ward off demons and devils.

Bruce, on the other hand, is devoted to stopping the tragedy that befell him from ever occurring again. He is the walking antithesis to tragedy, a shadowy force of justice. The fact that the Joker killed his parents, which is THE defining tragedy for Bruce, only emphasizes this antithesis even more. He's a bit like a living gargoyle, a winged terror meant to combat evil. "Its not a perfect world," he says, because tragedy is real and it exists... but he's out there to fight it to the death all the same.

Vicki is for both characters a sort of mediating force. She's connected to the notion of a normal life. In the darkness of Gotham, she's a bright blonde. She's beautiful. She's charming. She's in some ways an angelic, pure figure. But she's more than a pretty face or an image of good - she's a mediating force because she's acquainted with tragedy - she's photographed war-zones and death. She's a bridge between that tragedy and the idea of a good life. At the same time, however, she doesn't quite understand Bruce and can never fully understand Bruce. She's acquainted with tragedy, but only from behind a camera lens: she's a step removed from it, a step outside it, and while she's fascinated by it (and by Batman) she doesn't really "know" it or understand it.



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Old 07-28-2013, 11:58 PM   #881
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

That started out as a post just about Nicholson's Joker but I realized it would be better to contrast him with the other two main characters... that was meant to go with the discussion above. Just a point of clarification.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:02 AM   #882
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Well, either way, it's a damn good post.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:16 AM   #883
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Don't forget Romero. His version was great, too.
Love Romero. I really do love all three and the way the part has evolved with each generation.


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Old 07-29-2013, 02:50 AM   #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
Jack Napier was a soulless entity concerned only with his outward appearance and vanity. When that was taken from him, he lost the only thing he cared about - himself - in a bizarre parody of tragedy. This is why he became the "world's first fully functioning homicidal artist." Desecrating all that was good to bring it all down to his level. Joker became a walking incarnation of tragedy, dancing throughout every scene (he dances while killing Grissom, dances when he finds Vicki's picture, dances out of her apartment after seemingly killing Bruce, dances at the top of the clock tower... all are "dances with the devil"). Its no coincidence that the Joker's demise is brought about by a gargoyle, medieval statues placed on buildings to ward off demons and devils.

Bruce, on the other hand, is devoted to stopping the tragedy that befell him from ever occurring again. He is the walking antithesis to tragedy, a shadowy force of justice. The fact that the Joker killed his parents, which is THE defining tragedy for Bruce, only emphasizes this antithesis even more. He's a bit like a living gargoyle, a winged terror meant to combat evil. "Its not a perfect world," he says, because tragedy is real and it exists... but he's out there to fight it to the death all the same.

Vicki is for both characters a sort of mediating force. She's connected to the notion of a normal life. In the darkness of Gotham, she's a bright blonde. She's beautiful. She's charming. She's in some ways an angelic, pure figure. But she's more than a pretty face or an image of good - she's a mediating force because she's acquainted with tragedy - she's photographed war-zones and death. She's a bridge between that tragedy and the idea of a good life. At the same time, however, she doesn't quite understand Bruce and can never fully understand Bruce. She's acquainted with tragedy, but only from behind a camera lens: she's a step removed from it, a step outside it, and while she's fascinated by it (and by Batman) she doesn't really "know" it or understand it.

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Old 07-29-2013, 08:54 AM   #885
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

has anyone read the Joker series (issues 1-9) from the 70's? I recently been hearing that Jack Nicholson personally looked to these for inspiration. I wonder if that's true?


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Old 07-29-2013, 12:41 PM   #886
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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has anyone read the Joker series (issues 1-9) from the 70's? I recently been hearing that Jack Nicholson personally looked to these for inspiration. I wonder if that's true?
I have them all. If Nicholson did look to them for inspiration I don't see what he took from them. They're like these crazy solo adventures Joker gets into.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:57 PM   #887
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

I've read (and own) the Sherlock Holmes one, but none of the others.

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Old 07-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #888
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

The relationship between the Joker and Batman in B89 is as much of a representation of the idea of "ying and yang" as it is in TDK. One of the reasons I love both relationships almost equally.

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:17 PM   #889
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The relationship between the Joker and Batman in B89 is as much of a representation of the idea of "ying and yang" as it is in TDK. One of the reasons I love both relationships almost equally.

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Old 07-30-2013, 03:17 AM   #890
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Seems like this is the set to Batman Returns, but looks like the '89 Batman mask on Keaton in the cockpit...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 07-30-2013, 10:34 AM   #891
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Hmmm. I don't remember him changing his voice to the point where I didn't recognize it was Nicholson. Also Jack always brings enthusiasm, energy and a wit to every performance.
ANY good actor brings enthusiasm, energy and wit to a performance. This is my point. People mistake Jack's strengths as an actor showing up yet again as him somehow playing himself.

Someone already pointed this out, but completely changing your voice isn't always the best choice for a role. For instance, Christian Bale still sounds like Christian Bale in pretty much every role he has played, regardless of what accent he's using, and even as Batman in many respects. Ditto many incredible actors out there.

No, Nicholson isn't always speaking in The Joker's voice in BATMAN. That's because he's not really fully Joker or Jack until the end of the movie. He moves between the two, as if there's a struggle or duality of sorts. He sort of "loses himself" to being The Joker more and more as the film wears on, until the climax, when he pretty much loses himself to being The Joker entirely, to his own detriment.

There's a bit of a struggle between Joker's homicidal mania and his desire to just kill people, and Jack's need to take over and rule Gotham (and its mob). Eventually Jack's control of the mob just provides The Joker with an army of sorts, and his methods become even more bizarre and homicidally inclined.

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Old 07-30-2013, 02:27 PM   #892
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Seems like this is the set to Batman Returns, but looks like the '89 Batman mask on Keaton in the cockpit...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I dunno, that actually looks more like the B89 set to me than the BR's one. The BR set had tons of VWs on the side of the road in just about every scene.

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:24 PM   #893
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

i agree. it looks like the Batman 89 set, but it is hard to tell without staring at it for a while.

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:37 PM   #894
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

It seems like it's from Returns. Unlike the first Batmobile, this one is shiny and it has the windshield wipers. But it isn't a big deal, that's a great picture! Never seen it before. Thanks for sharing.

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:49 PM   #895
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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i agree. it looks like the Batman 89 set, but it is hard to tell without staring at it for a while.
Yeah it is hard to tell... at first it looks like Batman Returns set (the Circus Gang fight scene or the alley where Batman parked the Batmobile)... but if you look at Keaton that's clearly the '89 mask. HmMmmMMm...

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:56 PM   #896
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Early rehearsals/test footage, perhaps?

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:22 PM   #897
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

There is definitely snow on the doorstep all the way on the left.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:25 PM   #898
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Yeah, you're right. Hmmmm, I wonder why he has on the B89 cowl? Was there some kind of tie-in commercial/advertisement/promotion for BR that accidentally used the B89 cowl?

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:34 PM   #899
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

It's definitely the Returns set...

There could be a multitude of reasons as to why he's wearing the 89 cowl. Like I said, they could just be testing things before principal photography began and didn't want to risk scuffing the new cowls.

I checked the commercials... He's always wearing the Returns cowl in those it seems. Especially the Diet Coke one.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:36 PM   #900
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Any higher res/size for that pic...?

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