Kurse!

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Selvig: The Tesseract can't fight... but you can't protect against yourself.

I take that to mean that the lure of such great power will make certain people want to possess that power, in some cases for evil purposes, but it isn't necessarily an evil object in itself.

wasn't the line

"The energy....the Tesseract can't fight it. You can't protect against yourself"

[ctsketch]

I wonder if we'll get to see Thanos' forces making good on their threat to hunt down Loki if he fails? also trying to steal the Tesseract?

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

wasn't the line

"The energy....the Tesseract can't fight it. You can't protect against yourself"

according to closed captioning it's

Selvig: Loki's scepter. The Energy. The Tesseract can't fight, but you can't protect against yourself.

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by elizah72

according to closed captioning it's

Selvig: Loki's scepter. The Energy. The Tesseract can't fight, but you can't protect against yourself.

meaning Loki's scepter which is powered by the tesseract can penetrate the shield because you can't fight your own energy...

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

meaning Loki's scepter which is powered by the tesseract can penetrate the shield because you can't fight your own energy...

I suppose that is one interpretation. BW seems to take it to mean he's blaming himself for what has happened in that line (it can't fight you BUT you can't protect against your own selfish intentions/needs around it) right after that line she says "It's not your fault you didn't know what you were doing." and he replies "well actually I think I did" and goes on to explain about the scepter.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Does one have to be sufficiently powerful/evil to be able to use it? Algrim is just one of the soldiers, albeit a fairly strong one.

In all fairness, Algrim is considered strongest of all the Dark Elves.

Your theory has merit, though I might modify it to say people susceptible to or influenced by evil use it. Selvig isn't good/then evil/then good, for example.

And maybe, to some extent, the Tesseract is using all these people instead of the other way around.

I don't think any of the "good" people you named have tried to use the Tesseract and failed (whereas lots of people have tried to use Mjolnir and failed, for example). They simply do not make the attempt.

True; there haven't been that many real attempts by the good guys to use the Tesseract, other than Fury and the scientists, who might not be considered powerful or worthy enough to unlock its energy. In the comics, good guys *can* use the Cube, of course; but in the MCU, I'm seeing a definite disconnect and trend towards only evil people being able to activate it.

(To pick a nit: the Viking king was not entombed with the Tesseract. The Tesseract actually was in the carving of Yggdrasil, off to the side of where the tomb was. But your point remains valid.)

Another quibble: if the Tesseract is so evil, why leave it on Midgard for 1000 years among all the rubes?

That's a good question, regardless of whether or not my theory is right. Who put the Cube there, and why leave it virtually unguarded for 1000 years, knowing full well the devastating consequences of someone in the know finding and using it? Going back to Red Skull's quote about "This would have been the crowl jewel in Odin's Treasury....if it wasn't a fake," seems to indicate that Odin doesn't even know it's there.

[American Maid]

I said:

if the Tesseract is so evil, why leave it on Midgard for 1000 years among all the rubes?

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

That's a good question, regardless of whether or not my theory is right. Who put the Cube there, and why leave it virtually unguarded for 1000 years, knowing full well the devastating consequences of someone in the know finding and using it? Going back to Red Skull's quote about "This would have been the crowl jewel in Odin's Treasury....if it wasn't a fake," seems to indicate that Odin doesn't even know it's there.

It's been a while since I've seen Thor1, but I thought it showed up in the battle at Toenberg at the beginning. Since Schmidt/Red Skull finds the Tesseract there, again in Toenberg, I had assumed Odin put it there for that order of knights (the ones Schmidt confronts) to guard.

But maybe not .. . . .hmmm.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

And who *hasn't* been able to, or hasn't tried, to activate the Cube while it was in their possession?

Thor (carries it in a case back to Asgard at the end of Avengers)

. . .only evil people can manipulate the Cube.

Ergo: the Tesseract is, itself, an evil object.

Wait a minute--if Thor does not activate the Cube, how do they get back to Asgard? (Surely it's not that he depends on Loki to convey them there?) As I recall, they both turn a handle on the case and it's activated.

[metaphysician]

I think the functionality of the Tesseract is just something we don't yet fully understand. I doubt its a matter of moral character so much as knowledge supplemented by the physical capacity to handle its energies. I suspect, however, that even Asgardians do not take the Tesseract lightly.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Here's another thought about the Cube being the artifact that changes Algrim: maybe it's Algrim who changes *himself* with the Cube.

It's a fairly mundane solution, but one that's a lot cheaper for the studio bean-counters: instead of introducing (and casting) a whole 'nother character with godlike powers to create Kurse, and instead of letting the Cube fall into enemy hands yet again, why not just have Algrim try to take the Cube from Odin, and accidentally/intentionally wind up getting morphed into Super Darkelf?

There's that report of AAA having a scene with Odin and Frigga, and Frigga (allegedly) dying at some point; so maybe Algrim makes it to the Asgardian throne room, confronts Odin and kills Frigga and/or The Allfather, and takes the Cube (either for himself, or at the behest of Malekith, or even Thanos if he shows up after all). But the power is too great for him, and he winds up becoming a twisted Hulk-like monster.

true. I like it. Again, I just think Surtur because I'd expect surtur to be in the movie, and simply, the oppritunity is there. To have a villain create another villain. The oppritunity is there. If it wasn't based on the simonson run leading to the surtur saga, I would say the cube would do it. But with the feeling that surtur will be having a presence, I still think him changing algrim is a very strong way to display that presence.

Originally Posted by American Maid

*That* is a very creative idea! I really like it! You're right, it keeps things simpler by having an object, rather than a new character, handle the development.

With the caveat that I am relatively ignorant about Odin's powers, it seems to me that this idea helps address another logistical problem: how do you keep incredibly powerful Odin from solving all the problems in 5 minutes? Maybe there's blowback from the cube when Algrim tries to activate it, leading to Odin being incapacitated or seriously limited for some stretch of the film. If this doesn't make sense for Odin's abilities, then nevermind.

We'd need another McGuffin, though, because when the Red Skull actually touched the Tesseract, he went to another dimension. Here the plot needs Algrim to stay in this dimension and become Kurse. So maybe he doesn't touch it directly (maybe it's still in the holder from the end of The Avengers?), only tries to manipulate it.

Another wrinkle I thought of is why Odin would have the thing out of his vault. But it seems like he could have brought it out due to the attack, if that's what's happening.

The only other question is the sequence of events such that Algrim can successfully take the Tesseract out of Odin's hands. Don't have an immediate answer on that, but I suppose it's possible.

Thanks for sharing the idea!

Algrim shouldn't be able to take anything out of Odin's hands. MCU or Comics, Odin is TOO far ahead of Algrim in order for that to happen.

the thing is though, we don't need another McGuffin. Well, in that scenario we would. But we don't need ANOTHER McGuffin. We got the cube, and potentially the gems and the IG, it's just too much. If algrim is to get his hands on the tesseract, I would think it would be due to Loki sneaking it out somehow, and leaving it somewhere, perhaps still trying to get it to Thanos to make up for his failure. However he gets stopped, and algrim stumbles upon it?

I just cant see algrim taking on odin, and taking the cube from him, or even taking it under his nose. that just cant happen lol

Originally Posted by elizah72

Possibly, but my next question would be if all someone has to do to turn into a "Kurse" type powerful being is use the Cube a certain way then why wouldn't Loki have done that to himself with all his knowledge of it, to make himself powerful enough to not only take over the Earth, defeat Thor and the Avengers, and at least be a strong challenge to Thanos if he were to come after him?

Many reasons. Maybe he didn't know how? Maybe he was afraid of what it would do? Maybe it was very complicated to tap into it correctly

Originally Posted by M-2

Mmm well in MCU they made it quite clear, that you shouldn't be touching the cube with your bare hand... We all seen what happened with Red Skull when he did it? So im just guessing that the Cube is very unpredictable when someone actually holds it.

So maybe Loki knew the cube can give you more power but he didn't want to risk it, because the cube might not respond as expected..

yes possibly

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Here's my theory on how the Cube works in the MCU. I *think* this is what Marvel Studios intended, because I find there to be too many coincidences otherwise. Check this out:

In the MCU, who have we seen activate the Cube, successfully or no, to at least some degree? Answers:

Loki
Red Skull
Arnim Zola
Selvig (when he's possessed by Loki)
Hawkeye (when he's possessed by Loki)
in theory, Thanos (since he tasked Loki with bringing it to him, and since it's always been iconically associated with the character, along with the Gauntlet)

And who *hasn't* been able to, or hasn't tried, to activate the Cube while it was in their possession?

An unnamed Viking king, who was entombed with the Cube in Norway (beginning of CATFA)
Howard Stark
Nick Fury
Thor (carries it in a case back to Asgard at the end of Avengers)
Selvig (when he *wasn't* possessed by Loki), and all the scientists at the JDEM lab at the start of Avengers
Odin, in theory: In CATFA, Red Skull hints that the Cube would be the "jewel in Odin's Treasury" --- so why doesn't Odin seem to use its power himself?

A quick glance at that list tells us what?
That only evil people can manipulate the Cube.

Ergo: the Tesseract is, itself, an evil object.

That would explain how/why Odin hasn't just used it to wish all the bad stuff away, and why Algrim would be able to activate it.

not too sure. This is clever, and obvious. I think it may be a little to obvious lol. Meaning I think it may be a coincidence. I think the tesseract is simply a complex artifact of imense power, that's it.

Originally Posted by ctsketch

meaning Loki's scepter which is powered by the tesseract can penetrate the shield because you can't fight your own energy...

That is exactly what he meant.

Originally Posted by American Maid

Wait a minute--if Thor does not activate the Cube, how do they get back to Asgard? (Surely it's not that he depends on Loki to convey them there?) As I recall, they both turn a handle on the case and it's activated.

yup

Originally Posted by metaphysician

I think the functionality of the Tesseract is just something we don't yet fully understand. I doubt its a matter of moral character so much as knowledge supplemented by the physical capacity to handle its energies. I suspect, however, that even Asgardians do not take the Tesseract lightly.

Exactly exactl exactly!!! Not moral character. As I stated above, I think it is simply an artifact of imense energy and power. And it takes "ancient knowledge" of the item to understand how it works, and how to use its energies and powers effectively. The skull didnt know squat about it. He did, but not enough, to touched it, and was gone. Loki was "given" the knowledge, but he didn't learn about it himself. Thor seemed to know OF it. Thanos is probably the only one who knows it the best. I think it is a confusing artifact of imense energy.

I see it as similar to the infinity gems in the comics. Many characters have used the gems, power gem for thor, drax, etc, but only thanos posessed the knowledged to use them the best and tap into the gems power. I think it is like that. You need to understand how the tesseract works.

For everyone else, it's touching an electric fense without knowing its electric. Now, You may get told about an electric fense, meaning, if you touch the fense, it will shock you. You KNOW that. Loki was told about the tesseract. But unless you learn about the wiring, and how the fence works and such, you probably won't be able to get over that fence unless you know how it technically works, and how to shut it down

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Exactly exactl exactly!!! Not moral character. As I stated above, I think it is simply an artifact of imense energy and power. And it takes "ancient knowledge" of the item to understand how it works, and how to use its energies and powers effectively. The skull didnt know squat about it. He did, but not enough, to touched it, and was gone. Loki was "given" the knowledge, but he didn't learn about it himself. Thor seemed to know OF it. Thanos is probably the only one who knows it the best. I think it is a confusing artifact of imense energy.

I see it as similar to the infinity gems in the comics. Many characters have used the gems, power gem for thor, drax, etc, but only thanos posessed the knowledged to use them the best and tap into the gems power. I think it is like that. You need to understand how the tesseract works.

For everyone else, it's touching an electric fense without knowing its electric. Now, You may get told about an electric fense, meaning, if you touch the fense, it will shock you. You KNOW that. Loki was told about the tesseract. But unless you learn about the wiring, and how the fence works and such, you probably won't be able to get over that fence unless you know how it technically works, and how to shut it down

I think Loki (and possibly even Thor) knows a helluva lot more about the Cube than what we've seen. Implicitly, this was his "selling point" to Thanos in the first place: he knew what the Cube was, where it was, how to get to it, and how to get it back to Thanos, and offered it in exchange for a conquering army.

Then there's the fact that he was able to harness its power for Selvig (who was able to learn great truths from it) and Hawkeye (who used it to suss out his next target and what he'd need to take him out -- i.e., an eyeball).

Then there's Loki and Thor's little one-on-one conversation on the mountaintop in Avengers, which hints that both Asgardians know full well about the Tesseract's power, and both seem to know full well about who Thanos is and why it's a bad idea to negotiate with him.

As to why Loki doesn't just take the Cube for himself: I think fear motivates him from doing that. Fear of Thanos, on the one hand, and what he will do to him; but also probably fear of the Cube itself, and what it's capable of doing to him.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I think Loki (and possibly even Thor) knows a helluva lot more about the Cube than what we've seen. Implicitly, this was his "selling point" to Thanos in the first place: he knew what the Cube was, where it was, how to get to it, and how to get it back to Thanos, and offered it in exchange for a conquering army.

Then there's the fact that he was able to harness its power for Selvig (who was able to learn great truths from it) and Hawkeye (who used it to suss out his next target and what he'd need to take him out -- i.e., an eyeball).

Then there's Loki and Thor's little one-on-one conversation on the mountaintop in Avengers, which hints that both Asgardians know full well about the Tesseract's power, and both seem to know full well about who Thanos is and why it's a bad idea to negotiate with him.

As to why Loki doesn't just take the Cube for himself: I think fear motivates him from doing that. Fear of Thanos, on the one hand, and what he will do to him; but also probably fear of the Cube itself, and what it's capable of doing to him.

yeah actually. most definitally

[jaqua99]

Okay guys. Figured I'd bump this thread, since we've had some recent interviews from AAA regarding Kurse.

If anyone was wondering what has been said, instead of searching through the threads, figured I'd post em in Kurse's own thread.

“Thor 2; great movie, great opportunity. I've been a fan of the Marvel Comics and I got a massive opportunity to play two characters in the movie: Algrim and Kurse. You go in thinking, 'Yeah this is great.' But when you get in there, you're like whoa; six hours of makeup, prosthetics, all the physical [stuff]. But honestly, I loved it. It's going to be such an epic. And both of the characters; I have blonde hair, blue eyes, pointed ears, fangs, horns; everything you could want as boy in an action hero movie. It's amazing. The Fighting was really demanding. For instance, Kurse is the one that does all the fighting. It's forty pounds of extra weight and the good thing about it is that it's very flexible and elastic. I have a routine before I put it on: I stretch and do all my pilates. You see this big creature doing pilates, it's great. And then we'd have to go fight. Me and Chris [Hemsworth] go toe-to-toe. It was hardcore. But you don't really get into [these kinds of movies] of you're not ready for that kind of thing. You gotta be mentally fit, physically fit because you're going to shoot a scene ten to fifteen different ways.”

“[Thor and Kurse] fight differently. Chris has his hammer while Kurse is very animalistic, he's got horns. So I tried to go with that flow. My movements are [basically] like an animal: twisting my body, turning my head, all kinds of things. Kurse is meant to be extremely powerful, nothing can stop him. It's a great ride. There's fights everything in the movie. Loki gets his fair share of fights; [one of which] is between him and I as well. The great thing about Kurse is he is having it with everybody. But yes, Loki has some amazing fights. [Fans] are really gonna be happy with this movie. Everybody gets their little shine. I won't tell you what really happens, but there's some great surprises.”

“As we speak, [Marvel and I] are talking about [playing in another Marvel movie]. Obviously, Marvel is a great family that I'm happy to be working with. We had a great time on Thor: The Dark World. I loved to continue that relationship. (After Guardians of the Galaxy was brought up) I'm not talking about anything yet, just having a good relationship with Marvel.”

Another one:

"I can’t tell you that much, but I can tell you Marvel are going all-out to really give this character an incredible visual impact. It's exciting for me, not just as an actor, but as a guy.”

and another:

"He’s different from other villains because Algrim was at a time once more human..Obviously later on the weight of the character with all this armor that he wears and his strength sets him apart from the rest."

and another:

"I didn't actually know an awful lot about that character and when I did my research in the comics there wasn't an awful lot. But with the director and myself, we sat down and looked at what was traditionally known as Kurse and we tried to put our spin on it."
However, once Akinnuoye-Agbaje began to flex his acting chops in the role, he ultimately became the part himself as Thor's nemesis.
"There was quite a bit of creative license in how I would interpret him but the wardrobe, the setting, they were phenomenal. When I set into that outfit, I was Kurse. They did such an amazing job it made my job so easy," he said.
The former "Lost" actor also paid homage to the wardrobe department, who all teamed up to put together several parts individually for the flick's tedious outfit.
"There were all these different factions, a different person was making the helmet, a different person making the arms, they all came together prior to the shoot, but in terms of my research before I didn't do an awful lot but once I got into the outfit it set it off. I think the fans are going to be pleased."

Read more at http://www.enstarz.com/articles/1215...VYmlOsA0F35.99

and most recently:

MG: How did you prepare for such an iconic comic villains playing both Algrim the Strong and Kurse in “Thor: The Dark World”?
AAA: It was a huge opportunity to pull double duty. In order to prepare you obviously go through and read the comics and research the characters history. You also look at the imagery and have discussions with Marvel and the directors to see their vision for the characters. Then the rest is left for the designers who create the costumes, which really then assists in your performance. Specifically for Kurse, it was very much looking at the costume and what I thought it would embody. For instance it had a certain look, so I used that look for his interpretive actions. I found that very useful. So with the horns and everything, I just went with that flow and tried to define a way of moving and fighting that was in the rhythm and the way that he looked. With Algrim, again the aesthetic look and the outfit really factored in as does the location and the set. From the moment you step into that world, you immediately become that character. You make them real. So in a way you have to ground the character in reality that makes it normal for them to be in that world. I believe and hope that we have done that well in this and that the audiences are going to enjoy it.

you guys think Kurse will speak at all?

[BigThor]

^ Wow this is my first time reading that last AAA interview you quoted, it's pretty awesome.

Yeah I'd like to see Kurse get a nice amount of lines and I'm also hoping to see a good bit of grappling/slamming during his fights with Thor.

[jaqua99]

I am hoping for that as well. I wonder how big he is. I would like to see him throwing a little bit. Hopefully it's clear that Kurse is too strong for him to beat by hitting him with mjolnir. Thus resorting to other powers

[Kryptonian God]

Yeah, more elemental/energy attacks are a must against Kurse, even though I really wanna see some smashing displays of physical strength in their fight(s).

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Jarnbjorn

Yeah, more elemental/energy attacks are a must against Kurse, even though I really wanna see some smashing displays of physical strength in their fight(s).

I agree on both counts!!

[elizah72]

Some more on Kurse from AAA
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2013/...o-the-head/#/0

Still, Akinnuoye-Agbaje says he never approaches antihero parts with anything other than the characters’ internal compass points in mind.

“If you step into it thinking you’re playing a ‘baddie,’ it becomes caricature,” he said. “What I’ve always tried to do is show the human side: what’s flawed.”


Akinnuoye-Agbaje often had to pull double duty as both characters in a single day – each characterization requiring around three hours in the makeup chair. And then there was the actor’s encasement in heavy-duty prosthetic padding to portray Kurse.

“The outfit weighed about 40 pounds. I’m sure there will be a certain amount of CGI but a good 80% was me in that suit,” said Akinnuoye-Agbaje. “The outfit informed how I was going to move – the horns – his fighting style as well. It’s almost like he’s made out of stone.”

Reluctant to reveal too much about “Thor: The Dark World” too early, the actor nonetheless shed a few rays of light on what fans can expect of Kurse.

“It’s an amalgamation of a bull and a lava-like creature,” he said. “He has very animalistic tendencies but with this insatiable and unstoppable power. As an actor, that’s one of the hardest things to embody. You have to realize you are probably the most powerful thing you could imagine. And you have to be that. You can’t pretend, so that when you face Thor, it’s real.”

[jaqua99]

Interesting, sounds like maybe an organic armor

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I am hoping for that as well. I wonder how big he is. I would like to see him throwing a little bit. Hopefully it's clear that Kurse is too strong for him to beat by hitting him with mjolnir. Thus resorting to other powers

Yeah most definately, but I still want to see Thor knocking him on his ass a bit with his fists and hammer as well.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by BigThor

Yeah most definately, but I still want to see Thor knocking him on his ass a bit with his fists and hammer as well.

me too. It sounds like they are doing Kurse right.

and we may see some brutality that hasn't been seen in the MCU yet.

[Godzilla2000]

Kurse vs. the Hulk would be an interesting match to see in the future.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

Kurse vs. the Hulk would be an interesting match to see in the future.

lol, it would look a lot like the Thor and Kurse fights, or the hulk and zeus fight (but not as brutal)...Hulk is certainly stronger than Thor, but strong enough to contend with Kurse, he is not

[BigThor]

Yeah Hulk and Thor are close enough in strength to where a fight with Kurse from either hero would be similar.

Except for the fact that Thor can pull out non physical powers when he starts getting overpowered.

[jaqua99]

exactly, which Hulk can't. Aside from the whole "hulk gets stronger with rage so eventually he will beat kurse..or whoever" crap...getting real, Kurse would brutally beat hulk down before he gets dangerous enough. Even wwh. Seeing how in world war hulk, he stalemated sentry, and Kurse shrugged off physical blows from thor and beta ray bill