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Old 08-24-2012, 09:37 AM   #1
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Default Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

Heartbreaking news. Reminds of Marion Jones's fall from grace.

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Old 08-24-2012, 09:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mor...2_a2&eref=sihp

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Old 08-24-2012, 10:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

Has there ever been any proof presented? It sounds like a bunch of fingerpointing and allegations that have gone to dead end investigations.

I understand why he gave up, the names Lance Armstrong and Livestrong have transcended the Tour De France. Those titles might have made him but he doesn't need them anymore.

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Old 08-24-2012, 10:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

It's like Joe Paterno, if his legacy is founded on a lie, it's going to crumble.

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Old 08-24-2012, 11:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

How far down the list are they going to have to go down to find someone that didn't dope before they can give someone else the title? Ullrich and Basso are definite cheats (confirmed doping tests).

Also, not sure how they can strip all the titles considering the statute of limitations only goes back to 2005.

Regardless, this is a sad day for cycling.

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Old 08-24-2012, 11:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

Atleast this years Tour De France and Olympics winner Bradley Wiggins is clean. His probably the most anti-drugs guy in Cycling in the sport today given how his fathers drugs problems and how he talks about drugs cheats in the press.

Wiggins on his first ever Tour De France in 2006 and finding out Landis was a drugs cheat
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Wiggins dug deep and hung on to Paris. He had finished his first Tour in 124th place — three hours and 24 minutes behind the winner, Floyd Landis — and celebrated that evening with his wife, Cath, happy and proud to have survived.

But three days later, his joy was tarnished when it was announced that Landis had tested positive. In his autobiography, In Pursuit of Glory, Wiggins records the moment vividly:

‘I felt physically sick when I heard the news. My first reaction was purely selfish and related only to me. “You b****** Landis,” I thought. “You have completely ruined my own small achievement of getting around the Tour de France and being a small part of cycling history. You and guys like you are p***ing on my sport and my dreams.

Why do guys like you keep cheating? How many of you are out there, taking the p*** and getting away with it? Sod you all. You are a bunch of cheating b******* and I hope one day they catch the lot of you and ban you all for life. You can keep doing it your way and I will keep doing it mine. You won’t ever change me, you sods. B******s to all of you. At least I can look myself in the mirror”.’

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Old 08-24-2012, 12:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

Thus, the saying goes:

"Never have heroes."

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Old 08-24-2012, 12:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

I think if the USADA has evidence and tests they should present it.

But honestly, with all these shady people around Armstrong, it's hard to believe there isn't something shady going on with him.

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Old 08-24-2012, 12:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

He also may be stripped of his bronze Olympic medal

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

It seems to me, that if Armstrong isn't going to at least challenge these allegations, it looks like an admission of guilt. Regardless of the outcome, it's a shame.

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:14 PM   #11
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

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I think if the USADA has evidence and tests they should present it.

But honestly, with all these shady people around Armstrong, it's hard to believe there isn't something shady going on with him.
I think the USADA have said they are going to release information on Armstrong.

Quote:
USADA maintains that Armstrong used banned substances, including the blood-booster EPO and steroids, as well as blood transfusions dating back to 1996, and said 10 of his former team-mates were ready to testify against him.
10 of his former team mates ready to testify against him alone says something.

The fact that they are so certain, willing to go after the most well know cyclist in the world for so long and are willing to publicly release case details says they must have some pretty damn strong evidence against him.

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

Yeah 10 of his former teammates that have a lot more to gain by saying "yeah we saw him take something". Like it's been said, you either present some type of positive test or you just let it go. Even the judge who upheld the USADA's ruling questioned why they were going after Armstrong so strongly. If this was a criminal case, Armstrong would walk.

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

I support Lance, and even with doping his accomplishments are still great. Half the field in the Tours he won were probably doping also. But there is no proof, so how can they come down on him like this?

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

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Yeah 10 of his former teammates that have a lot more to gain by saying "yeah we saw him take something". Like it's been said, you either present some type of positive test or you just let it go. Even the judge who upheld the USADA's ruling questioned why they were going after Armstrong so strongly. If this was a criminal case, Armstrong would walk.

This. No failed tests, not guilty of doping. Lance just got tired of it all. No one would back him up and he was fighting this on his own. He couldn't win this and he knew it. The USADA was going to get it's way no matter what. Why drag it out any further? He's still a 7 time winner in my eyes, no matter what the record books say.

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

I mean, it's completely possible he doped but show me proof. Show me something. Dude has been tested God knows how many times and you're telling me each time he found a way to beat the test? I mean really?

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

He was tested over 300 times. 300. And he didn't fail one. He was able to avoid getting caught that many times? I don't think so.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

I've heard the number be as high as 500 times.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

problem you have here is the dopers are usually way ahead of the testers in terms of technology like masking agents, etc. That's why they freeze samples and years later test them for things they couldn't or didnt even know existed at the initial time.

So Armstrong being tested 300 times over that time span means really little, if they can produce evidence to the contrary now with new science, which you would assume they will quite shortly.

Also keep in mind this is the USADA doing this to him. Not some French biking federation on a witch hunt or something. It's his own country dropping the hammer on him.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke View Post
It seems to me, that if Armstrong isn't going to at least challenge these allegations, it looks like an admission of guilt. Regardless of the outcome, it's a shame.
There are times when you just can't fight anymore due to the stress of the situation or the fact that it seems like a hopeless battle, etc. Think of if you were fired and trying to get your job back. You keep trying to fight to get your job back, but after a while, you might just say "what's the point" and end it.
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This. No failed tests, not guilty of doping. Lance just got tired of it all. No one would back him up and he was fighting this on his own. He couldn't win this and he knew it. The USADA was going to get it's way no matter what. Why drag it out any further? He's still a 7 time winner in my eyes, no matter what the record books say.
This is the biggest thing that gets me. He's passed all sorts of tests, and yet he's still being accused.

I don't know what type of evidence they have against him aside from testimony, but I would like to see it. I think he'll take action some other way because it's been clear that they've been out to get him.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

If they have actual proof that he was doping, outside of hearsay, then my thoughts on it will obviously change. IMO, I don't think they have that.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:35 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

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problem you have here is the dopers are usually way ahead of the testers in terms of technology like masking agents, etc. That's why they freeze samples and years later test them for things they couldn't or didnt even know existed at the initial time.

So Armstrong being tested 300 times over that time span means really little, if they can produce evidence to the contrary now with new science, which you would assume they will quite shortly.

Also keep in mind this is the USADA doing this to him. Not some French biking federation on a witch hunt or something. It's his own country dropping the hammer on him.
The thing is, if they actually had proof, they wouldn't need 10 guys lining up to narc on him.

They would be like "Here's a sample from *insert year here*, we've tested again and it's positive for PED's." They haven't shown that.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

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If they have actual proof that he was doping, outside of hearsay, then my thoughts on it will obviously change. IMO, I don't think they have that.
Agreed.

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Old 08-24-2012, 03:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

There's a chance, however small it may be, that he might not lose his titles. The TDF titles are international and the USADA doesn't have jurisdiction/authority to strip those. To back that up, the US Cycling Federation and the cycling union (whatever it's called) are fighting the penalty as well, stating the USADA doen't have jurisdiction.

As I said earlier, regardless of the outcome, it's a sad day for cycling. (Unless of course you're one of the jealous scumbags whose "testimony" is being used.)

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Old 08-24-2012, 03:09 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

I think the 10 guys narking on him just reinforces the findings of the test results.

I always hated Lance Armstrong so I'm glad that he was caught cheating and now is being punished by his own country for it. I hope the UCI follows suit with their own punishments.

I don't like Armstrong because he competed in one race and won it several times and people equate that to being the best bicyclist in the world. I also find his personality to be grating.

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Old 08-24-2012, 03:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour De France titles.

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I think the 10 guys narking on him just reinforces the findings of the test results.
And which test results would those be? The 300 or so tests he's passed?

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I always hated Lance Armstrong so I'm glad that he was caught cheating and now is being punished by his own country for it. I hope the UCI follows suit with their own punishments.
I hate him so I'm glad something bad is happening to him. Cool, at least you're being fair.

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I don't like Armstrong because he competed in one race and won it several times and people equate that to being the best bicyclist in the world. I also find his personality to be grating.
Winning the biggest race in the world 7 times in a row doesn't make you the best in the world?

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