All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

You surely see the irony o this statement no?I mean i havent even predicted anything about the movie but you on the hand full out stated that they are implementin flyby ideas into MOS when you have no fakin idea about it and are even admitting it..
Dude.Take your own advice.you dont know anymore than i do, so you just chill your jets and lets both see what happens in the future.quit the Mos is flyby talk

go re-read any of my posts, and you will find that all i make are simple speculation posts... im not saying this movie is EXACTLY like the FlyBy script, and I'm also not saying that this movie is going to bomb like the previous movie attempts did... im only pointing out the vague similarities that this movie has with the Abram script... some of these die-hard Snyder fans cant seem to figure that out yet. you're right, we dont know everything yet, and that does worry me a little bit.

I've ALSO gone on to say in past posts that i WANT this movie to be successful... im not like some of those who want this movie to fail, because i don't. im simply concerned about the overall outcome of this movie, and i'm addressing my concerns to fellow Superman fans on this forum. i understand there are differing opinion, and im completely and totally okay with that... and you know what, I'm not the only one who is noticing similarities between FlyBy and MoS... this is actually touched on a little in the Superman suit thread, you can go and read it there for yourself.

again, I'm not implementing that the entire movie is a rip-off of FlyBy... i never once said that. that's snyder fans taking my words out of context... im simply seeing things that are familiar to that movie attempt... yes, it does concern me a bit, and yeah, it does bother me. it tells me that they're hashing old ideas from other older scripts... as much as i like Abrams and what he did for Star Trek, im not all that interested in seeing his take on Superman. I'd rather see something new, not something re-used.

and truth be told, i truly am hopeful that i'm wrong on this speculation, I really am, and i hope that this movie is successful, and gains a lot of success for the Superman franchise... if that comes to pass, i will gladly eat these words of caution, and say "i was so happy that i was wrong "

im not the "gloom and doom on MoS" poster as some posters on here try to make me out to be

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by protocida

Did you not read the post.

Based on the movie alone, the Box Office was positive.

With the accumulated budget of previous attempts to produce the movie, the Box Office was negative.

Simple enough now?

i dont base movies simply on their box office. Spider-Man 3 made a huge amount of money, yet the series ended...

box office amounts dont account for everything in a movie

[Compi716]

Originally Posted by protocida

^ That's a narrow-minded way to look at it, especially considering that The Avengers changed things as much as others.

And, well, how do YOU know it'll suck? Not trying to be a dick, but there's no indication it'll be bad because "OMG It's different from the comics! Xit Sux!".

Really? The Avengers messed with the mythos at the same level as The Dark Knight Rises or The Amazing Spider-Man? Please. You could pick up an Avengers comicbook and not lose a step from the movie.

I only say I know because history has proven, with the absolute exception of the Nolan Batman film, this correct. The successful films are the ones that stick close to the source material, yet make some necessary changes for the change in artistic format and genre (Spider-Man 1 & 2, X2, Superman: The Movie, Iron Man, even Batman to an extent). Those that stray too far tend to stumble.

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by Compi716

Sigh...this happens in the forum EVERY comicbook movie. 95% of the posters are latching on to whatever info we're fed, thinking everything is the "best," most "modern interpretation" of an idea, all so new audiences don't find anything "cheesy." It's like clockwork at this point.

Change does not make things better. It never has. Look at this summer's comicbook movies. The biggest, most successful one was ALSO the most colorful and comic-accurate. That's not a coincidence, no matter how you try and spin it. Sticking to the source material when it comes to key plot elements is ALWAYS the right decision.

Now I don't know if there's a "suit in a can" or any other leftovers from J.J. Abrams' "Flyby" script. But if there are, let me assure you of one thing: they'll suck. A suit in a can will suck, a prophecy will suck, Krypton not exploding will be downright offensive...because it's not classic Superman which, despite what the buzzwords may tell us, is EXACTLY what audiences want.

I hate to say it, but damn do I miss Kurosawa sometimes.

you know, thats not always the case, though...

take, for example, the first 2 X-Men movies. Singer made those very realistic for today, and changed around a lot of things, especially the suits, and those two movies were very successful... those movies were not overly colorful, they were not comic book accurate, and by far, it wasn't cheesy in any way...

so, sometimes, sticking to the comic book material might not be the best move to make.

with all of this, it all comes down to a very delicate balance of directing, producing, story design, visual design, the whole works

[FilmNerdJamie]

A chill pill is in order.

Dial it back, fellas.

[protocida]

"Messed"? That's a hard word.

Comics books are built on reinterpretations of the mythos. Why shouldn't movies?

The Avengers indeed CHANGED a lot from the comics.

The quality of the movies generally considered the best really has nothing to do with how faithful it is to the source material. It all comes down to getting the spirit of it. If you understand it, if the core is there, and the changes made to the source material are organic to the story you're trying to tell, that's the recipe for success.

[charl_huntress]

le sigh...I remember when I defended a movie before even seeing it based on what I thought was good ideas and a good director.

Those were the days...before SR.

[Compi716]

Originally Posted by Super Kal

you know, thats not always the case, though...

take, for example, the first 2 X-Men movies. Singer made those very realistic for today, and changed around a lot of things, especially the suits, and those two movies were very successful... those movies were not overly colorful, they were not comic book accurate, and by far, it wasn't cheesy in any way...

so, sometimes, sticking to the comic book material might not be the best move to make.

with all of this, it all comes down to a very delicate balance of directing, producing, story design, visual design, the whole works

I'm talking about in terms of story, tone and adaptation of the original text.

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by Compi716

I'm talking about in terms of story, tone and adaptation of the original text.

even then, though, those movies were quite different to the original comic book context...

[Krumm]

Originally Posted by Compi716

Really? The Avengers messed with the mythos at the same level as The Dark Knight Rises or The Amazing Spider-Man? Please. You could pick up an Avengers comicbook and not lose a step from the movie.

I only say I know because history has proven, with the absolute exception of the Nolan Batman film, this correct. The successful films are the ones that stick close to the source material, yet make some necessary changes for the change in artistic format and genre (Spider-Man 1 & 2, X2, Superman: The Movie, Iron Man, even Batman to an extent). Those that stray too far tend to stumble.

It should be noted that Nolan and Goyer are involved in MOS.

[Krumm]

Originally Posted by protocida

"Messed"? That's a hard word.

Comics books are built on reinterpretations of the mythos. Why shouldn't movies?

The Avengers indeed CHANGED a lot from the comics.

The quality of the movies generally considered the best really has nothing to do with how faithful it is to the source material. It all comes down to getting the spirit of it. If you understand it, if the core is there, and the changes made to the source material are organic to the story you're trying to tell, that's the recipe for success.

Absolutely agree.

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by protocida

It all comes down to getting the spirit of it. If you understand it, if the core is there, and the changes made to the source material are organic to the story you're trying to tell, that's the recipe for success.

and i truly do hope the writers/producers/director of MOS has that in mind... not saying they dont... just voicing my concern.

[hopefuldreamer]

When can we/how can we set up a thread with all the things we know and all the things we've heard as rumours clearly defined?

I've just spent some time putting together everything I think we know from the cast, interviews, tidbits and pictures, but I don't know where the best place to put it all would be?

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer

When can we/how can we set up a thread with all the things we know and all the things we've heard as rumours clearly defined?

I've just spent some time putting together everything I think we know from the cast, interviews, tidbits and pictures, but I don't know where the best place to put it all would be?

I wonder at times on why no one has actually started a "MOS-News ONLY" thread like how TDKR had one.

[hopefuldreamer]

Yeah, well that's the kind of thing i'm talking about. The trouble is, the list i've made of 'stuff we know' doesn't include any actual links to the sources or pictures that i'm basing that knowledge on... so it's probably not thorough enough for a thread like that.

I've basically just googled everything I could remember, then summarised it all.

Do you think that's okay to post here if I put it in spoiler tags?

[charl_huntress]

MODS...we need a spoiler thread....PLEASE

I for one do not want to be tempted in threads not appropriated as "Spoilers"

Please let's wait for Jaime, Showey or C. Lee to post a spoiler thread before doing anything "spoilery".

[Hunter Rider]

I didn't realize that we didn't already have a non-spoiler section for MOS, I'll sort it out.

[charl_huntress]

Thanks Hunter!

[Zionite1]

Originally Posted by Super Kal

go re-read any of my posts, and you will find that all i make are simple speculation posts... im not saying this movie is EXACTLY like the FlyBy script, and I'm also not saying that this movie is going to bomb like the previous movie attempts did... im only pointing out the vague similarities that this movie has with the Abram script... some of these die-hard Snyder fans cant seem to figure that out yet. you're right, we dont know everything yet, and that does worry me a little bit.

Heres your posts.Read the bolded.especially the first.

Originally Posted by Super Kal

there were a lot of things that went into that failed movie attempt, and a lot of those ideas are being implemented into this movie... i for one whole-heartedly disagree with it. there were major problems with that script, and the reason that movie was never made, and the main reason all those other scripts NEVER made it into completion was because it alienated the audience, and only focused on the alien part of Superman, and ignored Superman's humanity. Jon Peters, in the LUITS documentary even admits to this, and admits that he did not succeed in making a movie in the 90's because it was becoming Star Wars, and not Superman. I'm really hoping they're not simply copying previous script ideas to opt out of doing something truly original, because I'm starting to see a lot of similarities in MOS and the past movie attempts

Your words.You say you see a lot of similarities between Mos and flyby when you can only piont out tht costumes are similiar(which is only true for the Tyzor/Faora costume).And non of the flyby elements that made flyby terrible has been said to be in this movie.So why the baseleszss worry?
See if you were worried about an element that you actually know will be in the movie id understand-for example im a bit worried about the whole Bearded clark in exile sounds a lot like Batman begins.My worry is understandable snce this is going to be in the movie.Yours on the other hand is speculation.

[Bruce_Begins]

I don't know what is the problem if Goyer includes some parts from multiple sources available to him.

I think he has included some elements from (IMO.) -

Superman FlyBy movie script.

Smallville series.

STAS series.

and following comics -

Man of Steel.

Superman Birthright.

Superman Secret Origins.

Superman Earth One.

And added some parts as suggested by Chris Nolan, so what ?

[DoomsdayApex]

Nothing.

The concept to Man of Steel was pieced together from not only JJ Abrams' script and numerous comics (such as Birthright, All-Star, Secret Origins, Red Son, etc), but with Goyer's and The Nolans' own ideas to the character and his mythos/universe -- a Superman living in our world.

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

Your words.You say you see a lot of similarities between Mos and flyby when you can only piont out tht costumes are similiar(which is only true for the Tyzor/Faora costume).And non of the flyby elements that made flyby terrible has been said to be in this movie.So why the baseleszss worry?
See if you were worried about an element that you actually know will be in the movie id understand-for example im a bit worried about the whole Bearded clark in exile sounds a lot like Batman begins.My worry is understandable snce this is going to be in the movie.Yours on the other hand is speculation.

yes, i said i saw SIMILARITIES... never said it was GOING to be a failure, smart one... and as of now, yep, it looks very similar to FlyBy to me... and you're right, it ALL is speculation, because we know absolutely nothing about the whereabouts from where they got their designs from, and until that time in which we do find out where it came, there will continue to be speculation.

to you it may be baseless, because of your unrelenting faith in Snyder and Nolan, but to me it's not baseless. it's a general concern, and until it's settled, it will continue to be a concern.

[Llama_Shepherd]

The apparent absence of Lex Luthor already shows the film is very different to Flyby.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Nothing.

The concept to Man of Steel was pieced together from not only JJ Abrams' script and numerous comics (such as Birthright, All-Star, Secret Origins, Red Son, etc), but with Goyer's and The Nolans' own ideas to the character and his mythos/universe -- a Superman living in our world.

Im loving the combination of all this.

[Bruce_Begins]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Im loving the combination of all this.

Seriously, If they pick the right elements from all these sources and combine then in right way with their own ideas, then it just cannot get any better then this.