Hulk's anger and Strength

[jaqua99]

What is the strongest we have seen him in the MCU? People seem to say, Avengers Hulk was MUCH stronger than Incredible Hulk. Well first of all, it's the same damn Hulk.

Secondly. I disagree. A lot. Let's look at the best Hulk-outs, the important ones.

Lets say...
1. College Campus
2. To fight Abomination
3. In the Helicarrier
4. In the Final battle in the avengers.

Am I the only one who thinks Avengers Hulk was not as strong as he was in The Incredible Hulk? Hear me out. Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets.

Now as far as I am concerned, Hulk was stronger in his fight with Thor than he was in the final battle. It was his first Hulk out in a long time. He was influenced by Loki. Got tackled by Thor, in a good fight. You could see how angry he was getting.

In the final battle, yeah, it wen't on longer, but there wasn't much that really made him seem all that angry. Plus it seemed that Banner had an influence on him

The college Campus he was getting attacked the whole time, seemed pretty pissed off. When the sonic guns were blasting him, he heard betty yelling, and that is what made him stronger.

Now the Abomination fight. Oh boy. I think a lot of us don't realize HOW STRONG Hulk got in that fight. As far as I am concerned, that was FAR AND AWAY the strongest we have seen him in the MCU. Sorry Avengers Hulk (though you looked much cooler, and were way more accurate)

When the fight started, Abomination was way stronger. They made that clear. Very clear, atleast in my opinion. I mean, he kicked Hulk, and sent him flying a few hundred feet away. By kicking him for christ's sake.

Now my arguement is that Abomination fight Hulk is stronger than Thor fight Hulk. Now Hulk punching Thor sent him flying say 60-150 feet I'd have to say. Hulk did not have a full range of motion. However, Neither did abomination when he kicked Hulk. He was laying on his back. Hulk weighs MUCH more than Thor, and Abomination kicked Hulk atleast 300 400 feet. Atleast. Avengers Hulk as we saw him, did not reach that level of strength. Yes, our legs are stronger. But my point was Abomination kicked a MUCH heavier being 400 or so feet than Hulk could punch, who was lighter. So even though it is tough to say, cause it's arm vs leg, Thor is MUCH lighter than Hulk but. Using what I know of myself personally, legs vs arms, I would say Hulk, with that range of motion, would have been able to kick thor 200-300 feet. Maybe a bit more. Hulk is atleast twice as heavy as thor, atleast, and abomination was able to kick him THAT distance 200-300feet + actually.

As the fight when on, Hulk was still losing, out muscled, but was stronger. Though he won by choking him out. He did actually get stronger than him because of what he said about betty. Abomination had one arm at Hulk's neck. Hulk got strong enough that he was able to actually pull his arm off his chest, then push him away, before slamming him into the wall. Only to get cheap shotted by Abomination.

So based on how strong Abomination was (my opinion stronger than avengers hulk), and how he over powered Hulk, and how eventually Hulk at the end of the fight was able out muscle him, by arm at the end, that to me just goes off that Hulk, when he fought abomination was stronger than he was in the avengers. If I had to rankk them, (based on number of ">"those) I would say

Abomination fight Hulk>>>>>Thor fight Hulk>>>>Final Battle Hulk>College Campus Hulk


Thoughs? opinions? I would love to hear someone's evidence that avengers Hulk was stronger than TIH hulk, because frankly, It's a no brainer to me

[pr0xyt0xin]

well, in regards to your main question, i do not think Avengers Hulk was depicted as stronger or more angry than TIH Hulk.

My order goes:
Harlem (Abomination fight) Hulk > College Campus Hulk > Hellicarrier (Thor fight) Hulk > Manhattan (Chitauri fight) Hulk > Bottling Plant (Rio de Janeiro) Hulk

I think most of this can be chalked up to the difference between "in control" vs "out of control" Hulk.

Harlem seems to be when Hulk becomes most pissed off. Abomination taunting him, and progressively he builds both anger and strength until he almost kills Abom.

As you said, college campus he shows concern for Betty and is (again) taunted by Blonsky into nearly killing him.

Hellicarrier shows a Hulk that is Post- Banner's learning to control Hulk. Therefore I think Banner does everything he can to hold back against Thor (because imo full strength Hulk would spank Thor). But Banner is under Loki's influence and stressed from the explosion etc.

The Manhattan/Chitauri battle Hulk is basically just him having fun. "Hulk smashing" so to speak. He is never in any severe amount of danger or critical condition of health. No amount of Chitauri weapons are a match for his thick skin/stamina. Same holds true for his one-sided conflict with Loki.

The Bottling Plant he just wants to be left alone. I assume thats why you left this one out of your analysis. But I think its worth mentioning because it displays his strength by "throwing a forklift truck like it was a softball." He is in "escape mode" and therefore doesnt display any real upper limit strength here.

I like how thorough you are in this analysis. But yeah, I think TIH Hulk (out of control Hulk) is far stronger than Avengers Hulk (in control Hulk). Heck, his muscle mass even looks more taut and cut in TIH.

[Smashlilman]

You can't use Abomination as an example of how strong the Hulk was in that movie. The Abomination was weak and so was TIH Hulk.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Hellicarrier shows a Hulk that is Post- Banner's learning to control Hulk. Therefore I think Banner does everything he can to hold back against Thor (because imo full strength Hulk would spank Thor).

That doesn't make any sense, Hulk was clearly out of control due to Loki's manipulation and there was no evidence to suggest he was holding back.

It was Thor who tried to calm Hulk to down, choke him out, and couldn't use his weather powers due to the Helicarrier's safety.

Originally Posted by Smashlilman

You can't use Abomination as an example of how strong the Hulk was in that movie. The Abomination was weak and so was TIH Hulk.

I wouldn't say "weak", but they definately weren't all that powerful and certainly not as impressive as Avengers Hulk.

[Scar Predator]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I like how thorough you are in this analysis. But yeah, I think TIH Hulk (out of control Hulk) is far stronger than Avengers Hulk (in control Hulk). Heck, his muscle mass even looks more taut and cut in TIH.

One of the criticisms I had for TIH is that he struggled to lift various military vehicles in the college campus fight. Even at his most calm, this is something Hulk should have done with minimal effort.

Also, I rewatched TIH recently and his torso was definitely too thin. He didn't have the massive, round pecs of Avengers' Hulk or the mountainous delts that Hulk should have.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by Smashlilman

You can't use Abomination as an example of how strong the Hulk was in that movie. The Abomination was weak and so was TIH Hulk.

How on earth was Abomination (and by proxy the Hulk) weak in TIH?

Originally Posted by BigThor

That doesn't make any sense, Hulk was clearly out of control due to Loki's manipulation and there was no evidence to suggest he was holding back.

It was Thor who tried to calm Hulk to down, choke him out, and couldn't use his weather powers due to the Helicarrier's safety.

I agree that Thor was also holding back. But you can't honestly be suggesting that the Hulk at full strength wouldn't cream Thor. An unarmed Thor at that, for half the fight.

Just as Banner was attempting to subdue his transformation into the Hulk (in the scene with Black Widow prior) and just as he aimed where he hit the ground (when he scared the hell out of those pigeons) I think somewhere inside his head he was holding back in his battle with Thor. As I feel he is always doing in every scene following this one:

Originally Posted by Scar Predator

One of the criticisms I had for TIH is that he struggled to lift various military vehicles in the college campus fight. Even at his most calm, this is something Hulk should have done with minimal effort.

Also, I rewatched TIH recently and his torso was definitely too thin. He didn't have the massive, round pecs of Avengers' Hulk or the mountainous delts that Hulk should have.

I see your point about the military vehicles. And I can't say one way or another except maybe an attempt at either more realistic power levels or comparative power levels with the rest of the Avengers team.

As far as mountainous muscle mass is concerned, I think any Spider-Man or Thor fan will tell you, super-strength isn't exclusively measured by muscle size. Hulk was less flabby and swole in TIH, but in my personal opinion, he looked more powerful. That being said, he didnt really full on lift any objects in Avengers (namely a certain hammer ) so we can't really compare.

[Oberon sexton]

Avengers Hulk KO'd a freaking space, robo dragon thingy with one punch, and that was him "in control"

He could barely lift a jeep in his "enraged" state in TIH.

I think there was a markable difference, yet Avengers Hulk didn't really cut loose as much as he did in TIH.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by Oberon sexton

Avengers Hulk KO'd a freaking space, robo dragon thingy with one punch, and that was him "in control"

He could barely lift a jeep in his "enraged" state in TIH.

I think there was a markable difference, yet Avengers Hulk didn't really cut loose as much as he did in TIH.

space, robo dragon thingy
That thing weighed more than everything the Hulk ever dealt with in Ang's Hulk and TIH combined and then some. He freaking stopped it with a single punch!

Jeep
Hulk should have been able to toss that jeep like a soft ball.

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I see your point about the military vehicles. And I can't say one way or another except maybe an attempt at either more realistic power levels or comparative power levels with the rest of the Avengers team.

As far as mountainous muscle mass is concerned, I think any Spider-Man or Thor fan will tell you, super-strength isn't exclusively measured by muscle size. Hulk was less flabby and swole in TIH, but in my personal opinion, he looked more powerful. That being said, he didnt really full on lift any objects in Avengers (namely a certain hammer ) so we can't really compare.

That thing weighed more than everything the Hulk ever dealt with in Ang's Hulk and TIH combined and then some. He freaking stopped it with a single punch! Then on top of that you have to factor in its incoming speed which adds to the feat.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by BigThor

That doesn't make any sense, Hulk was clearly out of control due to Loki's manipulation and there was no evidence to suggest he was holding back.

It was Thor who tried to calm Hulk to down, choke him out, and couldn't use his weather powers due to the Helicarrier's safety.

I'd also like to take this moment to point out that there's no way we can even be sure that Mjolnir is capable of all of its weather powers in the MCU. Not to say that rain or snow wouldve really helped anyway. Just saying the hammer seems to act more like a lightning rod in the films, like a weaponized electrostatic conductor that redirects the energy at a target. Which, in turn would cause the thunder clouds we see when he does it. And the whirlwind during the battle with the Destroyer appeared to be more of a feat of strength (whirling Mjolnir in rapid circles).

On second thought, I suppose thats what you meant by weather powers, so I'm not discounting your statement. Just noting my opinions on the functionality of such. Its not like he stamps Mjolnir twice on the ground to create rainstorms anymore. We should count ourselves lucky for that.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by Smashlilman

space, robo dragon thingy
That thing weighed more than everything the Hulk ever dealt with in Ang's Hulk and TIH combined and then some. He freaking stopped it with a single punch!

Jeep
Hulk should have been able to toss that jeep like a soft ball.



That thing weighed more than everything the Hulk ever dealt with in Ang's Hulk and TIH combined and then some. He freaking stopped it with a single punch! Then on top of that you have to factor in its incoming speed which adds to the feat.

Um. Thats a little different. For instance, I could probably stop a golf cart from accelerating, doesnt mean I could lift it over my head. I think youre forgetting the factor of the Hulk's durability. He often used his body as a weapon in The Avengers. Things were crashing into him left and right. And just because that robot dragon thingy's path was obstructed by the Hulk's fist/body doesnt mean he could lift it or even a fraction of it for that matter.

I guarantee if the Hulk could lift something that big, that battle wouldve been over much sooner.

[pr0xyt0xin]

One feat of his strength we can measure in The Avengers was the Hulk catching Iron Man. The Marvel website lists Iron Man (in armor) as weighing 425 pounds. Lets even say 450 because the Mark VII had additional weapons.

where: force x time = mass x velocity
force x time (it takes the object to stop) = 450 x -96 feet/second
force x 2 seconds = -43,200
force = 21,600 pounds
or roughly 100 tons of force

Granted theres a lot of variables i pretty much made up. lets compare data?

Once again though this is much a feat of durability as he is mostly just using his body to cushion Iron Man's fall and not actually lifting that much force.

[Oberon sexton]

The actual act of killing that thing topped him barely beating Abomination.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by Oberon sexton

The actual act of killing that thing topped him barely beating Abomination.

He didnt kill a single one of those things alone. And if you are still referring to the one he punched, Iron Man's tank missile killed it after Hulk kinked its armor.

Besides, that is once again the difference between me battling a slowly moving Golf Cart vs. me battling a homicidal lunatic with comparable strength to my own.

We have to assume the force of Abomination's punches are comparable to Hulk's (at least for a portion of the battle before the Hulk becomes enraged). We were given no reason to believe that Abomination was less powerful than the Hulk. It was the same serum, Banners blood, the Gamma rays, etc.

Therefore "barely beating the Abomination" in itself was quite a feat. He was berated with several punches and kicks on par with Hulk's own strongest hits, and Abomination is physically capable of taking as much damage (if not more) than the Hulk.

[Oberon sexton]

It'd probably be more like stopping a rhino compared to fighting a guy of similar build.

And really, the thing looked dead when he punched it, Iron Man's missiles merely stopped it's body from capsizing on the rest of the Avengers.

[TheGuy]

Avengers Hulk for me, just by their jumping alone. TIH Hulk could barely jump from building to building. He even was stopped momentarily by focused sound waves. And he climbed up buildings instead of jumping over them. Avengers Hulk was jumping from the ground to the top of buildings and KOing robot ships.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by Oberon sexton

It'd probably be more like stopping a rhino compared to fighting a guy of similar build.

And really, the thing looked dead when he punched it, Iron Man's missiles merely stopped it's body from capsizing on the rest of the Avengers.

Now we're getting somewhere. I disagree about it appearing to be dead. But like you originally said KO'd, knocked out or dazed is a more reasonable assessment.

As far as the rhino thing, maybe to a more imposing human. I personally weigh 120 pounds and roughly zero of that is muscle. lol. That and I probably feel pain at a higher degree than the Hulk (or Lance Armstrong for that matter) and my regenerative factor is substantially less effective with even respective injuries. (i.e. i cut myself shaving it takes two days to heal, Hulk's face is slashed by a giant shard of interplanetary weaponry, it takes 20 seconds to heal.)

But I still feel confident I could hinder a 600 pound golf cart from moving. I am not, however, confident I could win 10 fights to the death out of 10 with my brother of a similar stature.

Thus, I stand by the golf cart claim! If I play the Hulk in my fan film, the Leviathan will be portrayed by an ornately decorated golf cart.

[TheGuy]

Jeff White talks about the Hulk weighing somewhere between 1100-1600lbs. The robot ship he KOed was maybe about 5000+ tons. It's more like stopping a locomotive train speeding at 100kph if you're Ronnie Coleman.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by comics

Jeff White talks about the Hulk weighing somewhere between 1100-1600lbs. The robot ship he KOed was maybe about 5000+ tons. It's more like stopping a locomotive train speeding at 100kph if you're Ronnie Coleman.

Heh. You may have a point here. I personally assume our MCU Hulk weighs about 1200 lbs.

So yeah, my golf cart analogy goes only about as far as 5 times my own weight. I will definitely secede that the Leviathan weighs far more than 6000 lbs.

However, your locomotives speed needs to be drastically reduced. As the leviathan was probably going about 60mph (100kph) himself. But you need to tone it down for someone of Ronnie Coleman's stature. Just like you'd need to tone down the speed of my golf cart to about 4mph. Maybe say 15mph (25kph) which would still kill Ronnie lol. BUT! I bet he would gum up the locomotive's wheels somethin fierce. -_-

Finally though, we have to account for the Hulk's various other abilities, namely his extreme durability, he probably didnt even feel pain when he stopped that thing with his fist and he won't be suffering any long-term internal or external damage. That is certainly worth mentioning as it allowed him to continue standing there even after the thing crashed into him with something like 100k tons of force.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I'd also like to take this moment to point out that there's no way we can even be sure that Mjolnir is capable of all of its weather powers in the MCU. Not to say that rain or snow wouldve really helped anyway. Just saying the hammer seems to act more like a lightning rod in the films, like a weaponized electrostatic conductor that redirects the energy at a target. Which, in turn would cause the thunder clouds we see when he does it. And the whirlwind during the battle with the Destroyer appeared to be more of a feat of strength (whirling Mjolnir in rapid circles).

On second thought, I suppose thats what you meant by weather powers, so I'm not discounting your statement. Just noting my opinions on the functionality of such. Its not like he stamps Mjolnir twice on the ground to create rainstorms anymore. We should count ourselves lucky for that.

He created a tornado in Thor and TA, plus he's controls lightning so I would say that's enough to consitute the term "weather powers".

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I agree that Thor was also holding back. But you can't honestly be suggesting that the Hulk at full strength wouldn't cream Thor. An unarmed Thor at that, for half the fight.

Well Hulk almost KILLED BW right before Thor tackled him, so it's safe to say that Bruce no longer had any control of Hulk at that point.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Can't find the tornado from The Avengers, can you point it out for me?

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Can't find the tornado from The Avengers, can you point it out for me?

It happened when he was in the field summoning his armor, there was a tornado swirling around him the whole time.

That's beside the point thought because he created a tornado in THOR and TA took place in the same universe.

[marcvader]

He was definitely stronger in Avengers though this wasn't solely his movie so we didn't have all the opportunities for displays as you'd get from a solo movie.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by BigThor

It happened when he was in the field summoning his armor, there was a tornado swirling around him the whole time.

That's beside the point thought because he created a tornado in THOR and TA took place in the same universe.

I was just asking.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by marcvader

He was definitely stronger in Avengers though this wasn't solely his movie so we didn't have all the opportunities for displays as you'd get from a solo movie.

You can't say that since he didn't do anything w/o Mjolnir in THOR, plus his weather control seemed more powerful in THOR imo.

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I was just asking.

Oh ok my bad, I didn't mean to sound rude or anything.

[Oberon sexton]

You should have responded with "I'M JUST TELLING!" BT