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Old 08-29-2012, 10:02 AM   #26
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

Wow, she didn't sell that at ALL.

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Old 08-29-2012, 10:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen View Post
This is just my opinion, but when you set up a movie like that, it puts that character (in this case Maria Hill) in an omniscient third person narrative position. She would be looking at the events retrospectively and therefore be able to know every event. She could be aware of everything happening on earth, but how would she be aware of and be able to attest to what happened in space with Thanos?

Just my opinion. It would just raise question marks to me.
You're 100% right about that. It would have made a lot of the movie impossible, or at least difficult to accept as a story.

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Old 08-29-2012, 11:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

A bad scene, in that it does not fit in with the tone of the rest of the movie, there is little if anything in the film to support a rift between Hill & Fury, and it is badly acted. A no-brainer cut.

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Old 08-29-2012, 11:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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I'm glad they didn't open with this . The theatrical version is a much better opening plus this alternate opening is very misleading .

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Old 08-30-2012, 01:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

I swear the 1st 10 seconds was as if they were trying to copy the depressing feel of TDK then her straight to dvd acting killed the remaining scene. I havent seen an actress this bad and little range since january jones in first class.

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Old 08-30-2012, 04:58 PM   #31
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

I did feel a little tension at the beginning of the movie when Fury was telling her to get Phase 2 stuff on trucks and he gave her a look that I felt looked like she was undermining his authority maybe for the umpteenth time. Maybe she'll star in the S.H.I.E.L.D. T.V. show and die....no scratch that, just appear in Captain America and have Bucky kill her.


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Old 08-31-2012, 11:36 AM   #32
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

On this interview

http://www.vulture.com/2012/08/joss-...h-vulture.html

A bit about the cuting of scenes.

Some deleted scenes from The Avengers have found their way online this week, and I was particularly struck by the wraparound sequence that was cut from the film, where Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders) tells the movie's story in flashback and starts things up in a much more moody way. What made you decide to cut it?

Two factors. One: The movie was three hours long. Two: Audiences didn't respond to it as well in the movie as I think they would as a DVD extra. Most of them didn't know who this character was or what the context was, and they were like, Uhhh, I don't know why I'm supposed to be personally involved in this character I don't know. The rollout to the Avengers getting to Loki was so gradual that people were getting restless. I thought Cobie nailed it, and the reason I thought it was necessary is because I was trying to make a war movie and I wanted to give context that something bad had happened in the past. In a war movie, you don't know who's going to live or die, but you do know that this war happened and that [the characters] are going to be in a dire circumstance, and I wanted to create that atmosphere.

I was able to get what I needed without doing that. It was tough. I hated cutting it. I hated cutting the Captain America stuff with the waitress. At least I was able to call Ashley Johnson [who plays the waitress] and tell her that all her stuff was still in Much Ado About Nothing, since she had been cut out of Dollhouse, she had been cut out of The Avengers: "I swear you're still in the Shakespeare movie!" You know, those bits had seemed very personal to me, and part of doing Much Ado was that I could go back to The Avengers and say, "Oh, it's not about me. Even though its my film, it's about the Avengers. I am less important than the needs of the film."


This is Pond talking now: Actually, Ashley Johnson wasnt cut out of Avengers (not really even from Dollhouse; she apeared in Omega even when her workl in the original pilot wasnt seen as it was canned), only one scene was cut out.

I love the scene and Cobie in it, but we will never know how it worked as we shouldnt just judge acording to the thaeter version, but also with the fact that thsi opening was suposed to be the beginning of a 30 minutes longer cut; diferent pacing, tone etc...

Still, one thing is true; there is people already complaining that the movie takes too much time to start going, so imagine if this scenes were in...


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Old 08-31-2012, 03:52 PM   #33
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

Idea is fine. Execution is horrible. Acting makes it even worse.

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Old 08-31-2012, 04:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

Yeah I hate the alternate opening and it would've ruined the flow of the whole movie. To start the movie cold with a character like Hill who we know nothing about would've been very amateurish. Not to mention it sort of spoils the end of the movie.

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Old 08-31-2012, 04:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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You're 100% right about that. It would have made a lot of the movie impossible, or at least difficult to accept as a story.
My first thought when I saw this was the Simpsons episode "Homer the Moe" when Homer is telling a story about Bart digging a hole in the back yard.

Within the story, Homer starts to dig his own hole and it cuts to the Chinese watching footage of him digging from a satellite, wondering what they're up to. The response from Moe in real time is "If it's true, how'd you know all of the stuff you weren't around for?"
Lenny asks, "How'd you know the Chinese were spying on you?"
Homer's response is, "I just naturally assumed."

I could see this panning out in a similar way. Maria Hill talking about the battle, says, "And the alien leader was talking to a big purple alien in space, talking about courting death." The Council asks how she knew and she says, "Well, I just naturally assumed."

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Old 08-31-2012, 06:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen View Post
My first thought when I saw this was the Simpsons episode "Homer the Moe" when Homer is telling a story about Bart digging a hole in the back yard.

Within the story, Homer starts to dig his own hole and it cuts to the Chinese watching footage of him digging from a satellite, wondering what they're up to. The response from Moe in real time is "If it's true, how'd you know all of the stuff you weren't around for?"
Lenny asks, "How'd you know the Chinese were spying on you?"
Homer's response is, "I just naturally assumed."

I could see this panning out in a similar way. Maria Hill talking about the battle, says, "And the alien leader was talking to a big purple alien in space, talking about courting death." The Council asks how she knew and she says, "Well, I just naturally assumed."
That's how you know the framed narrative is in trouble, when it reminds you of that.

I bet they had this same discussion around the production office.

"Joss, this really reminds me of the Simpsons."

"Really? Seasons 1-8?"

"Nope. Seasons 9-24."

"****. Okay, cut it."

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

This alternate opening really gives the Maria Hill's character more depth. I think it would have been okay to open the movie with this but I still think there's something missing (maybe in Cobie Smulders' acting??), and the way things were run in the final movie was better. And the huge shock at the end???? Would have made me leave the theater in shock asap, and I'm a die-hard fan. O_O

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

I think it's a scene that works better on the page. It sets a tone immediately. I mean, from a writing perspective, I can understand the meaning and importance of it. From a viewer, however, it's something that doesn't quite fit. I can see this kind of thing happening in Hollywood all the time.

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Old 09-01-2012, 01:12 AM   #39
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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Originally Posted by marvelman2006 View Post
I swear the 1st 10 seconds was as if they were trying to copy the depressing feel of TDK then her straight to dvd acting killed the remaining scene. I havent seen an actress this bad and little range since january jones in first class.
It feels nothing like the TDK...

When Joss first started talking about the movie he said he wanted it to be a war movie. He was trying to replicate that feeling in that scene but Hill didn't sell it. He was trying to replicate the feeling of movies like The Dirty Dozen and Black Hawk Down.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatehero View Post
I think it's a scene that works better on the page. It sets a tone immediately. I mean, from a writing perspective, I can understand the meaning and importance of it. From a viewer, however, it's something that doesn't quite fit. I can see this kind of thing happening in Hollywood all the time.
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“Two factors. One: The movie was three hours long. Two: Audiences didn’t respond to it as well in the movie as I think they would as a DVD extra. Most of them didn’t know who this character was or what the context was, and they were like, Uhhh, I don’t know why I’m supposed to be personally involved in this character I don’t know. The rollout to the Avengers getting to Loki was so gradual that people were getting restless. I thought Cobie nailed it, and the reason I thought it was necessary is because I was trying to make a war movie and I wanted to give context that something bad had happened in the past. In a war movie, you don’t know who’s going to live or die, but you do know that this war happened and that [the characters] are going to be in a dire circumstance, and I wanted to create that atmosphere.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen View Post
My first thought when I saw this was the Simpsons episode "Homer the Moe" when Homer is telling a story about Bart digging a hole in the back yard.

Within the story, Homer starts to dig his own hole and it cuts to the Chinese watching footage of him digging from a satellite, wondering what they're up to. The response from Moe in real time is "If it's true, how'd you know all of the stuff you weren't around for?"
Lenny asks, "How'd you know the Chinese were spying on you?"
Homer's response is, "I just naturally assumed."

I could see this panning out in a similar way. Maria Hill talking about the battle, says, "And the alien leader was talking to a big purple alien in space, talking about courting death." The Council asks how she knew and she says, "Well, I just naturally assumed."
I think the movie it self wouldn't have been told from Maria point of view. It would have been more like we the viewers traveled back into the past to view what happened instead of Maria telling us about in a flash back. They would have just gone "2 days earlier".

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Old 09-01-2012, 06:05 AM   #40
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

First thought that crossed my mind when I saw this deleted scene on youtube was "Omg, this is fu cking terrible", and also as you guys say "Smulders is horrible", but hey, she was terrible in the movie too, her character is useless, she's just here as a counterpoint to Fury, and spends her time whining and looking all aggressive and shi t.

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Old 09-01-2012, 06:12 AM   #41
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

I'm glad they didn't use this opening. Don't like the idea, the tone, the pacing. The original opening is just fine, perfect for me.

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Old 09-01-2012, 09:49 AM   #42
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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Originally Posted by pink ranger View Post
that's how you know the framed narrative is in trouble, when it reminds you of that.

I bet they had this same discussion around the production office.

"joss, this really reminds me of the simpsons."

"really? Seasons 1-8?"

"nope. Seasons 9-24."

"****. Okay, cut it."
buuuuurn.

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Old 09-01-2012, 10:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

Good thing they didn't use it!

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Old 09-01-2012, 06:19 PM   #44
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

Has anyone seen the Alternate Ending?

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Old 09-02-2012, 01:09 AM   #45
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

Nope; which one's that? Different from the Shawarma one?

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Old 09-02-2012, 01:47 AM   #46
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

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Nope; which one's that? Different from the Shawarma one?

There is an alternate ending in which Hill, speaking to the Council, sums up what happened in New York. Strangely, she basically contradicts most of what she said about the Avengers being a gigantic screw up and Fury being wrong in the alternate opening. Whedon went for a kind of bait-and-switch, which lead the audience to believe one thing in the beginning, then turned back on itself and came to the opposite conclusion at the end of the film. It's a cliche that has often been used, but it wasn't appropriate for The Avengers, IMO.

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Old 09-02-2012, 02:07 AM   #47
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http://m.io9.com/5938575/must-watch-...r-the-avengers

Wow what a big difference that opening would have on the tone of the film. Which do you like better?
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:31 AM   #48
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

If anything, the alternate opening was probably just to make the GA (who aren't aware of Iron man 3 and future MCU films) to think that the Avengers may have failed in their attempt to stop Loki, let alone that Iron Man may have been killed off with that shot of his face plate hitting the floor along with Maria's comment about how they lost heroes...

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Old 09-02-2012, 08:29 AM   #49
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Default Re: Avengers alternate opening

I'm not getting where, from this alternate opening, people could get the mistaken impression that Iron Man is dead. Where does he feature in this (even a lifeless body), unless I keep missing him?

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Old 09-02-2012, 08:33 AM   #50
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I'm not getting where, from this alternate opening, people could get the mistaken impression that Iron Man is dead. Where does he feature in this (even a lifeless body), unless I keep missing him?
Idk about anyone else, but it's the moment where we see Iron Man's face plate drop onto the street after Maria Hill mentions on how this incident involved losing heroes. Naturally the fans who know that Iron Man 3 is coming out before the film premiered would obviously know that Iron Man wasn't going to be killed off, but to the average GA who probably doesn't keep track on what's on MS's track list, one could get the impression that something bad happened to Iron Man.

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