Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

I really think the colour scheme of the original Ms Marvel outfit looks better than the current Captain Marvel one. I prefer more of the red with the blue shoulders and gloves than vice versa.

There were some alternate abandoned designs that I would have preferred over the one they picked, but I don't have those on photo-bucket at the moment.

[marcvader]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Ms Marvel has been in as many cartoons and games as Thor was before his movie?

Nah, I wouldn't go that far. That's not true.

[Chewy]

It is true, actually. A quick check says that

before his movie, Thor was in
(cartoons)
-The 60's Marvel cartoon as a main character
-an episode of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends
-2 episodes of 90s F4, and 1 episode of 90s Hulk
-The Super Hero Squad Show as a main character

(video games)
-background character in Marvel vs Capcom and Avengers in Galactic Storm
-playable character in both Marvel Ultimate Alliances
-playable character in all The Super Hero Squad Show games (not sure how many there are)

While Ms Marvel has been in
(cartoons)
-an episode of the 90s X-Men
-The Super Hero Squad Show as a main character
-The recent Avengers cartoon as a main character

(video games)
-playable character in both Marvel Ultimate Alliances
-playable character in all The Super Hero Squad Show games (not sure how many there are)
-The Facebook game and the upcoming Marvel Heroes RPG

[marcvader]

How about 2 Ultimate Avengers animated movies, and Hulk vs.

[Chewy]

Forgot about Hulk Vs. But douchebag hippy Thor doesn't count

[marcvader]

Plus appearances in Next Avengers and Planet Hulk, plus he was the focus of his portion in the 60's Marvel Super heroes cartoon.

[Chewy]

I mentioned the 60s toon. And honestly no one really watched those DTV movies, hence the low sales and cancellation of the line. And most of them were made after the movies had been greenlit, as marketing for the movies.

I thought we were talking about actual, TV-based cartoon series for the kiddies

[marcvader]

I only reiterated the 60's cartoon to mention he was the focus or solo character of his own episodes where Ms. Marvel has never had that. I mentioned the DTVs as they are cartoons and didn't realize you were specifically talking tv. Regardless Thor has a higher profile than Ms.Marvel in toons and games. She's riding the wave and as result benefiting from Marvel's multimedia push where Thor did it before this big push.

[The Strategos]

I think she's probably benifitting also from the fact that as time goes on it becomes more and more glaring that the Avengers are lacking a descent female regular, especially when over in ol' X-Men they have an embarrassment of them !

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

It is true, actually. A quick check says that

before his movie, Thor was in
(cartoons)
-The 60's Marvel cartoon as a main character
-an episode of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends
-2 episodes of 90s F4, and 1 episode of 90s Hulk
-The Super Hero Squad Show as a main character

(video games)
-background character in Marvel vs Capcom and Avengers in Galactic Storm
-playable character in both Marvel Ultimate Alliances
-playable character in all The Super Hero Squad Show games (not sure how many there are)

While Ms Marvel has been in
(cartoons)
-an episode of the 90s X-Men
-The Super Hero Squad Show as a main character
-The recent Avengers cartoon as a main character

(video games)
-playable character in both Marvel Ultimate Alliances
-playable character in all The Super Hero Squad Show games (not sure how many there are)
-The Facebook game and the upcoming Marvel Heroes RPG

I know no one counts this, but there is a slight difference in fame level between a character who has had 50 years worth of solo comics, and one that has had a total combined 7 years worth in a 35 year existence.

I'd actually say prior to the movie, more people even knew who Loki was than knew who Ms. Marvel was.

[spideymouse]

Would you guys say that Ms. Marvel is more famous in the public consciousness than Guardians of the Galaxy? I would.

[Chewy]

Yeah, easily. She's right up there with Dr. Strange and Black Panther as the most recognizable still untapped character

[marcvader]

I'd say generally they are equal in the public consciousness but you may have a better shot with kids recognizing Ms.Marvel because of the toons.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yeah, easily. She's right up there with Dr. Strange and Black Panther as the most recognizable still untapped character

For now anyway. The Guardians of the Galaxy are probably going to wind up Marvel's #4 team, and a top ten property.

I think the Guardians are getting a push for being a more novel concept than the others, and a deviation from the typical Superhero origins film.

[Chewy]

Yeah, a hit movie obviously changes everything as far as popularity. I expect Rocket Raccoon to basically be Marvel's #7 character in about 3 years.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yeah, a hit movie obviously changes everything as far as popularity. I expect Rocket Raccoon to basically be Marvel's #7 character in about 3 years.

Spider-Man, Iron Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Cap, Thor, and Rocket?

We're basically down to the C-listers. Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Ms. Marvel aren't Spider-Man and Wolverine, or even Captain America and Iron Man. The fact that 1 in 50 people know who they are instead of 1 in 100 people isn't enough of an advantage to give them a green light over the Guardians.

Think about pitching these ideas to an executive who has no familiarity with either property: A team of aliens that includes a talking Raccoon with a shoulder canon and an Ent, or a chick with big boobs who flies and fires energy. One sounds whacky and inspired, while the other sounds incredibly derivative.

[Ultra Nolanite]

Yeah but then again pitching Ms Marvel like that is doing her a great disservice. With an extra sentence you can include the Kree, Skrulls and possibly even S.W.O.R.D in your pitch.

That's like saying A guy in a robotic suit that flies and shoots lasers or a strong soldier with a shield, for Iron Man and Cap respectively. That's not how you pitch your ideas.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Ultra Nolanite

Yeah but then again pitching Ms Marvel like that is doing her a great disservice. With an extra sentence you can include the Kree, Skrulls and possibly even S.W.O.R.D in your pitch.

You can include all of that in a Guardians pitch though too. Basically, Marvel chose to "go cosmic" with the characters they felt represented the greatest deviation from the superhero norm in order to keep things from veering towards monotonous formula.

[Chewy]

Well first of all I'm not sure who you're trying to convince? I agree with you, Marvel wanted a fully cosmic movie to introduce Thanos, and Captain Marvel is too tied to Earth while Nova is too similar to the failed Green Lantern. I was just responding to the question about who was more recognizable.

Second of all, a studio exec who knew nothing about the characters would go for the derivative option. (Not that I think Captain Marvel is derivative, just replying to your point.) Safe = good. No studio but Marvel would have greenlit Guardians of the Galaxy.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Spider-Man, Iron Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Cap, Thor, and Rocket?

We're basically down to the C-listers. Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Ms. Marvel aren't Spider-Man and Wolverine, or even Captain America and Iron Man. The fact that 1 in 50 people know who they are instead of 1 in 100 people isn't enough of an advantage to give them a green light over the Guardians.

Think about pitching these ideas to an executive who has no familiarity with either property: A team of aliens that includes a talking Raccoon with a shoulder canon and an Ent, or a chick with big boobs who flies and fires energy. One sounds whacky and inspired, while the other sounds incredibly derivative.

As a comic book movie fan who doesn't read comic books (my estimate is that there are millions of us), I have been exposed to Ms. Marvel by osmosis much, much more than Guardians of the Galaxy. I don't know where you're getting your statistics, but I would guess that there are millions more people who know about Ms. Marvel than GOTG. It's fine with me that they're going with GOTG, but I don't think you can pull the "other heroes are more popular than Ms. Marvel" card on whether she deserves a shot at a movie.

As for pitching the ideas to an executive, I think you'd have to be a real jerk to pitch Ms. Marvel that way. If you pitch her as a strong-willed, powerful superheroine who's able to go toe-to-toe with the big boys (as well as add diversity/new dynamics to your #1 team) and whose background would contribute to connecting both the cosmic and earth-bound sides of your still infant-stage cinematic universe, then yeah, I think you can get an executive just as intrigued as a talking raccoon and a walking tree, if not moreso.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Well first of all I'm not sure who you're trying to convince? I agree with you, Marvel wanted a fully cosmic movie to introduce Thanos, and Captain Marvel is too tied to Earth while Nova is too similar to the failed Green Lantern. I was just responding to the question about who was more recognizable.

Second of all, a studio exec who knew nothing about the characters would go for the derivative option. (Not that I think Captain Marvel is derivative, just replying to your point.) Safe = good. No studio but Marvel would have greenlit Guardians of the Galaxy.

I'm uber defensive of the Guardians property. *Hides in corner with Rocket Plushy*

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I'm uber defensive of the Guardians property. *Hides in corner with Rocket Plushy*

I wasn't even attacking Guardians--I was using it to dispel the "Ms. Marvel is less popular than Thor and therefore Ms. Marvel should not have a movie" notion.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

As a comic book movie fan who doesn't read comic books (my estimate is that there are millions of us), I have been exposed to Ms. Marvel by osmosis much, much more than Guardians of the Galaxy. I don't know where you're getting your statistics, but I would guess that there are millions more people who know about Ms. Marvel than GOTG. It's fine with me that they're going with GOTG, but I don't think you can pull the "other heroes are more popular than Ms. Marvel" card on whether she deserves a shot at a movie.

As for pitching the ideas to an executive, I think you'd have to be a real jerk to pitch Ms. Marvel that way. If you pitch her as a strong-willed, powerful superheroine who's able to go toe-to-toe with the big boys (as well as add diversity/new dynamics to your #1 team) and whose background would contribute to connecting both the cosmic and earth-bound sides of your still infant-stage cinematic universe, then yeah, I think you can get an executive just as intrigued as a talking raccoon and a walking tree, if not moreso.

I wasn't pulling the other characters are more famous than Ms. Marvel card, I was pulling the "All the characters who are left over are unknown to the general audience, and thus should be chosen based on their ability to deliver a unique and compelling cinematic experience, instead of which of these virtually unknown characters are more famous."

The general audience is what sells these movies, not the fans. The fact is, if you tried to sell any of these movie characters based on who already knows them, they'd all bomb. Whether they do a Doctor Strange movie or a Devil Dinosaur movie next, the majority of the General Audience will be introduced to the character for the first time. Even the most famous character marvel has left are barely famous at all, and thus fame should not be a factor in deciding which characters get movies next.

Maybe I was being highly cynical with my Ms. Marvel pitch, but I just feel very cynical about the idea of fabricating back story, and history for a character just to crank out a movie for her. Ms. Marvel's comic book career is defined by two steps forward and two steps back, with no interesting story arcs that weren't defined by her interactions with more developed, more popular characters .

I think many of the ideas being put forth here draw more on other Marvel characters (Having Carol replace Abigail Brandt in SWORD, tying Carol into the Kree Skrull War) then things that are actually inherently part of the character, who was created to be the Super-Girl to Captain Mar-Vell's Superman.

I feel like the reason this thread keeps veering back to discussions about how much leg Carol should show, is because ultimately, there isn't that much more to talk about with her. All that's being discussed is her potential / what should've been done with her in comics all of these years vs. What actually is.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I wasn't even attacking Guardians--I was using it to dispel the "Ms. Marvel is less popular than Thor and therefore Ms. Marvel should not have a movie" notion.

My problem with a Ms. Marvel movie isn't that she's less popular than Thor, it's that there's nothing to actually fall back on. They basically would be developing the character, more than adapting. You have to ignore/ rewrite 90% of history, because 90% of her history doesn't stand alone, and is completely dependent on other characters, or is just bad.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Maybe I was being highly cynical with my Ms. Marvel pitch, but I just feel very cynical about the idea of fabricating back story, and history for a character just to crank out a movie for her. Ms. Marvel's comic book career is defined by two steps forward and two steps back, with no interesting story arcs that weren't defined by her interactions with more developed, more popular characters .

I think many of the ideas being put forth here draw more on other Marvel characters (Having Carol replace Abigail Brandt in SWORD, tying Carol into the Kree Skrull War) then things that are actually inherently part of the character, who was created to be the Super-Girl to Captain Mar-Vell's Superman.

I feel like the reason this thread keeps veering back to discussions about how much leg Carol should show, is because ultimately, there isn't that much more to talk about with her. All that's being discussed is her potential / what should've been done with her in comics all of these years vs. What actually is.

I see and agree with all of this. But my honest reaction is: so? Synergize a backstory out of hers and other similar better handled characters, turn the two steps back into a good second act fall and fabricate a true victory for her. Why not? It's all made up anyway. And isn't that what every adaptation does to some degree anyway?