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Old 09-05-2012, 08:59 AM   #126
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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I think it'd be interesting if her screw up was doing it the 'right' way, where she does things like any good pilot or intelligence officer would do, and that doesn't work on this level. It requires a personal touch and some unorthodoxy to deal with these things.
The "personal touch" stuff seems a bit cliche, like the beginnings of a really mediocre action flick. I think you just have to have her be in over head, it's a job in which anyone would be in over their head. And her specific hang-up with it is that she's used to doing everything well, keeping things generally orderly. So the chaos and destruction that she allows on her watch really eats at her, chips away at her composure

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #127
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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He's probably referring to all the posters in this thread who are mortally offended that Ms. Marvel wears thigh-highs and Wonder Woman wears star-spangled panties.

And he's certainly got a point. There's more prudes in this thread than there are likely to be amongst audiences who actually care about a Ms. Marvel or Wonder Woman movie.
I'm still waiting for examples of thigh highs used for something other than advertising sex. All I hear is name calling and hyperbole.

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It's a Superhero costume.There's no need to read too much into it.
Tell that to the people in the costume threads. Or the people who make 30 minute long featurettes on making of the costume. Costumes represent something, and they tell a story. That's why they're important.

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #128
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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The "personal touch" stuff seems a bit cliche, like the beginnings of a really mediocre action flick. I think you just have to have her be in over head, it's a job in which anyone would be in over their head. And her specific hang-up with it is that she's used to doing everything well, keeping things generally orderly. So the chaos and destruction that she allows on her watch really eats at her, chips away at her composure
I like that. The personal touch can be done cliche, but going with what you're saying, she has to lose her composure, and put more of herself personally into the job in order to be successful, that's could be cool. Learning to not be so orderly. Basically an inverse Tony Stark, a story arc Cap can't have because of who he is, where she goes from "perfect" to awesome.

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:17 AM   #129
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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Tell that to the people in the costume threads. Or the people who make 30 minute long featurettes on making of the costume. Costumes represent something, and they tell a story. That's why they're important.
The costume is an extension of the character. Some people want to see the female characters treated with the same respect and dignity that their male counterparts are granted. Other people, who don't want their comics changed at all when adapted for a larger audience, get mad about this, and use words like prude where they don't apply. It's really not worth getting into, although the intense anger on the subject is hilar

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Old 09-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #130
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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The costume is an extension of the character. Some people want to see the female characters treated with the same respect and dignity that their male counterparts are granted. Other people, who don't want their comics changed at all when adapted for a larger audience, get mad about this, and use words like prude where they don't apply. It's really not worth getting into, although the intense anger on the subject is hilar
To be fair, I don't have a problem with He-Man's costume either, which shows as much skin as Ms. Marvel's.

The goal imo should be to create versions of classic costumes that work on the big screen, vs throwing everything out the window and starting from scratch just so you can cover a hero/ heroine up more (in most cases anyway...I'd never expect Gamora's modern costume to make a film.)

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Old 09-05-2012, 11:30 AM   #131
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

It's not the amount of skin, it's the idea of this human military woman getting alien powers and then deciding to run around in a one-piece bathing suit and stripper boots. It serves no purpose other than maximizing the amount of T&A that spills out everywhere

The original red/blue outfit is at least inspired by Mar-Vell's costume

(And... we're back to costume )

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Old 09-05-2012, 11:50 AM   #132
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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It's not the amount of skin, it's the idea of this human military woman getting alien powers and then deciding to run around in a one-piece bathing suit and stripper boots. It serves no purpose other than maximizing the amount of T&A that spills out everywhere

The original red/blue outfit is at least inspired by Mar-Vell's costume

(And... we're back to costume )
I got us away from the costume, it's only fair I brought us back!

because I am called


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Old 09-05-2012, 12:08 PM   #133
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

We are. And it's pointless, because the debate is not being taken up in good faith, but with barbs and such.

I think Ms. Marvel would be served better by showing more skin personally. Taking the gloves to the elbows and the boots to the knees removes to explicitly exclusively sexual nature of the costume, and then all you have to do is justify having a gymnast-style suit for mobility or some such madness, and we'll not even talk about this weird thunderbolt coming out of nowhere, but it makes it clear that 'this is not Barb Wire.' I still wouldn't like it because she still is the other girl in a black skintight get up, but it's not so off putting in general.

But she's had so many costumes, and she's taking her costume from someone who's had even more, there's a dozen costumes you can base hers off of other than the black one. It's not like that's even her current - or original - costume anyway!

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Old 09-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #134
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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If Carol Danvers has a "definitive" look this is it.

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Old 09-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #135
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

With regards to the costume. I want her to wear something in homage to "the" Captain Marvel, Mar-Vell. This solves the reasoning for any costume that is not SHIELD or SWORD related, whether 616 or Ultimates inspired.

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Old 09-05-2012, 12:51 PM   #136
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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If Carol Danvers has a "definitive" look this is it.
Maybe I'm not objective, because I'm a comic book fan. I know this look isn't truly iconic to the GA, but to me personally, this costume is classic. I would feel as strongly about people editing it unnecessarily as I did about Superman losing the underwear, or Captain America in shoulder pads and an army helmet (though the later wound up looking good on the big screen.)

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:13 PM   #137
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

^I can definitely understand that, so the questions I would ask are:
1) Is it necessary for her to not appear as though she's advertising sex?
2) Is it necessary for her to contrast with Black Widow or other Avengers visually?

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If Carol Danvers has a "definitive" look this is it.
I agree with that. The problem is that she doesn't have a definitive story or personality to flow from it and into it, and that makes a huge problem when adapting her from a pin up girl in an ensemble to a great solo heroine. This costume helps define her as sexual object with no relevant persona, story arc or purpose other than to be looked at. So perhaps being definitive for a largely failed character isn't something to be proud of and marshall around?

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With regards to the costume. I want her to wear something in homage to "the" Captain Marvel, Mar-Vell. This solves the reasoning for any costume that is not SHIELD or SWORD related, whether 616 or Ultimates inspired.
That's the easiest answer. You can retroactively make her costume into Mar-Vell's costume so she can get it from him, but it really doesn't make much sense for her to take his powers and job but not take his uniform/equipment.

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:17 PM   #138
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
^I can definitely understand that, so the questions I would ask are:
1) Is it necessary for her to not appear as though she's advertising sex?
2) Is it necessary for her to contrast with Black Widow or other Avengers visually?



I agree with that. The problem is that she doesn't have a definitive story or personality to flow from it and into it, and that makes a huge problem when adapting her from a pin up girl in an ensemble to a great solo heroine. This costume helps define her as sexual object with no relevant persona, story arc or purpose other than to be looked at. So perhaps being definitive for a largely failed character isn't something to be proud of and marshall around?



That's the easiest answer. You can retroactively make her costume into Mar-Vell's costume so she can get it from him, but it really doesn't make much sense for her to take his powers and job but not take his uniform/equipment.
Given her earliest costume was a riff on Marvel's that's acceptable.

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #139
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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That's the easiest answer. You can retroactively make her costume into Mar-Vell's costume so she can get it from him, but it really doesn't make much sense for her to take his powers and job but not take his uniform/equipment.
Actor had better do a ton of squats if he wants the thighs to pull that thing off

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #140
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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If Carol Danvers has a "definitive" look this is it.
I agree...in the comic that's the definitive look. But it wouldn't work at all for a movie.

They could put her in tight leather, keep the symbol on her chest but she'd have to wear something to cover the arms and legs. And remove the mask or make the mask into something that has a use.

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #141
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

And what would the symbol on her chest be for?

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:49 PM   #142
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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And what would the symbol on her chest be for?
For looks. It would be a very subdued color as well.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:31 PM   #143
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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Tell that to the people in the costume threads. Or the people who make 30 minute long featurettes on making of the costume. Costumes represent something, and they tell a story. That's why they're important.
If they change it from thigh boots to knee boots would that keep the GA from subconsciously thinking of her as a strumpet?

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:35 PM   #144
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

What if she wears a skintight black catsuit that covers up her entire body, but wait ! The costume has strategically placed skintone colored patches to give the illusion of stripper boots and gloves. But technically it would be pretty much just what Widow sported in Avengers. That way we can all be happy, pervs and prudes alike.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:37 PM   #145
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

That's basically the reason why characters like Hawkeye and Ms Marvel will never have comic accurate costumes.They can't explain them to the GA.

She needs a reason to wear a mask,have a lightning emblem,red sash,thigh boots......

And that's why we'll have Ms Marvel,at best, dressed like Elektra in Daredevil,or at worst,be dressed the same as BW/Maria Hill.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #146
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

One advantage Carol would have with her costume is coming into a world where there already are superheroes. That's something no franchise has had the benefit of yet.

She can literally create a costume to be a superhero, because she exists in a world that has superheroes, where as Nolan Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America etc required explanation/ justification.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:44 PM   #147
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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That's basically the reason why characters like Hawkeye and Ms Marvel will never have comic accurate costumes.They can't explain them to the GA.

She needs a reason to wear a mask,have a lightning emblem,red sash,thigh boots......

And that's why we'll have Ms Marvel,at best, dressed like Elektra in Daredevil,or at worst,be dressed the same as BW/Maria Hill.
No, she gets her powers from an alien therefor the suit can be explained away bu it has to resemble Captain Marvel in some fashion, not the black with a lightning bolt.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:46 PM   #148
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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One advantage Carol would have with her costume is coming into a world where there already are superheroes. That's something no franchise has had the benefit of yet.

She can literally create a costume to be a superhero, because she exists in a world that has superheroes, where as Nolan Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America etc required explanation/ justification.
Good point.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:47 PM   #149
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

Give her her original costume then (like she wears in A:EMH) or the Moonstone variation of that which they should never have wasted on that character.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:54 PM   #150
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Default Re: Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

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To be fair, I don't have a problem with He-Man's costume either, which shows as much skin as Ms. Marvel's.

The goal imo should be to create versions of classic costumes that work on the big screen, vs throwing everything out the window and starting from scratch just so you can cover a hero/ heroine up more (in most cases anyway...I'd never expect Gamora's modern costume to make a film.)
I totally agree.

I never made a big deal out of the fact that I've seen Justin Heartly more times on Smallville with is shirt off than in the Green Arrow costume.

In this case,I'm only asking for the classic costume on the big screen.It's not like I'm asking for a shower scene or anything!

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