Hickman's "Avengers"

[bored]

He also had them spend half their time as a team sitting around the dinner table.

ANYWAY, Hickman now. It's awesome. First arc was lots of fun, if the ending was way too rushed. Loved the Hyperion issue, looking forward to seeing him try to make Smasher interesting. Intrigued by what the deal will be with this new, apparently somewhat disturbed Captain Universe. I'm also hoping for an issue highlighting Cannonball and Sunspot taking in being Avengers.

[JewishHobbit]

Originally Posted by THANOSRULES

I do see the "angry black guy" in Luke and although you have some valid points, it was just too much Cage. He was in too many books and I got tired of him. He does have a lot of the aspects you mention, but when someone is so overexposed I started to only see the stereotypes.

I'm kinda confused on this one. Luke was only ever in the New Avengers title and that's it. He didn't even guest star in other books much. He didn't get a second title, Thunderbolts, until after Fear Itself I think... and yeah, I never liked that either. I hate when characters are spread out.

Not sure I give bendis the full credit of building up SPider WOman that whole time to be the Skrull Queen...or really Pym for that matter. I never believed he had this kind of stuff planned so far in advance. Clearly the stuff with Mar-Vell throws serious doubts into the complexity of the long term planning of that event.

You're entitled to your opinion but I try not to fault people for my asumptions. And his plan for the Secret War stuff was what got him the book, so it was definately a factor all along. He planned the Secret War to simply be an arc or two in the New Avengers title around issue 25, but that got pushed back due to Civil War happening, which is why it felt drawn out. Then editorial decided to upgrade it to a Marvel-wide event, as it made sense due to the story.

If I'm not mistaken, when we saw Spider-Woman talking to a mysterious stranger in the 3rd or 4th issue (later revealed to be Hydra) I think that was initially a skrull thing. And according to Bendis' interviews, he and the editors planned out who would be Skrulls from the beginning so he could build them up and so that other people wouldn't start popping out Skrull imposters left and right, spoiling the effect. That all makes sense to me.

In the end he didnt really make the ones that worked (Cage and Rand) future "quintessential Avengers" ..he largely kept them viable and in a better spot, but not the same kind of role for me as what I see in guys like Hawkeye, Wonderman, Vision and Scarlet Witch.

I don't know, I can see both Rand and Cage coming and going through the years. He really did a great job with them and I guess it falls to future writers to make that last, as people did with the ledendary Avengers that you mentioned.

Personally, I'm just hoping for a Cage Family book alongside Iron Fist and Squirrel Girl

[JewishHobbit]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

Jesus, we are talking entirely too much about a guy whose influence on the Avengers' comics has dwindled to almost nothing. How about this new Smasher chick? Kind of interesting that the Imperial Guard recruits from all over the universe, but I suppose that was implied by the fact that they're always a pretty weird-looking bunch (by Shi'ar standards) and their members get killed off with alarming regularity. I guess they're cool with humans now that the Phoenix is no longer a threat. I wonder if Hickman will bring that up--Scarlet Witch and Hope essentially doing with a wave of their hands what the Shi'ar Empire couldn't manage in just about forever with all the resources at their disposal. Humans: 1, bird-people: 0.

I'll let you know what I think when I get caught up, as I've pretty much decided I'm going to. I'm just debating on whether I can afford both titles or just the one.

Originally Posted by bored

He also had them spend half their time as a team sitting around the dinner table.

Ala... a family feel to the book. X-Men used to do that all the time before they got so brooding and serious. I liked that. And really, it wasn't all that often.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

I'm serious

The characters had personalities and flaws long before Bendis came around. I mean "character flaws" is pretty much a marvel comic character staple.

[bored]

Originally Posted by JewishHobbit

I'll let you know what I think when I get caught up, as I've pretty much decided I'm going to. I'm just debating on whether I can afford both titles or just the one.



Ala... a family feel to the book. X-Men used to do that all the time before they got so brooding and serious. I liked that. And really, it wasn't all that often.

Want a "family feel" to the Avengers done right? Read Busiek's run. He was brilliant at building relationships within the team (seriously, the guy made you believe that Thor and Firebird could be besties), while still maintaining a high level of action and epic scale.

[JewishHobbit]

Eh, his stuff never grabbed me for what little I read of it. Granted, I wasn't anything but an X-Men fan at the time so I didn't really care about the characters. I'd probably like it more if I tried it now... and I'm sure I will at some point.

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm really diggin' this Thor/Hyperion combo. Very effective

[THANOSRULES]

Busiek had his misses as well...I hated Silverclaw and was wishy washy on Triathlon and the whole triune stuff...his vision / wanda/ simon stuff was well done, as was Justice/Firestar..and he had 3 quintessential Avengers Arcs (Kang, Ultron, Forever) For Bendis, The "Raft breakout" came close, but the ending blew it...I don't even recall how it wrapped up.

Thats what get's me about Bendy..is a goose egg for "quintessential arcs" none of his big arcs were complete goodness from top to bottom...so far, he's got this Ultron thing coming up and it looks good.

I think it will be Heroes for Hire with Cage, Rand, and Jones..I think it's in the pipeline. As for over exposure of Cage, T-bolts was the tipping point..I was only mildly tired of him
till that point.

[runawayboulder]

The problem with the Triune subplot is that it's payoff got lost in the shuffle during the Kang Dynasty. I agree, it was an odd plotline, Triathlon never really took off as a character and the new blood on the team wasn't even needed with Justice and Firestar there. Plus there was some awkward underlying racism themes between Iron Man, Triathlon and Duane Freeman who was their gov't liaison.

The confrontation between Thor and Freeman was one of the highlights though. It really set things into motion as far as where Thor's role in the Marvel Universe headed for the next 3-4 yrs.

[bored]

The Triune thing would have been better served if he'd been able to conclude it within its own arc, but at least it lent itself to Giant Hologram Captain America beating up on Giant Hologram Kang.

[JewishHobbit]

I just reread Hickman's Avengers #1 and it was much better than I remember. I should really reread comics more. I remember when I was a kid and I'd read comics 8 and 9 times or more, eagerly anticipating the next issue. Now I read them once, bag them, and typically never touch them again.

Anyhow, I'm debating getting caught up on the title, and maybe New Avengers, while at the comic shop today. I'm not fully decided yet and I might not have the money (having already spent my extra comic money on a Walking Dead trade last week) but we'll see.

[runawayboulder]

Oh boy.

A major line was crossed today in New Avengers......BIG TIME. This is going to get nasty.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

And yeah, call it a blatant rip off of DC's Identity Crisis blah blah blah. F-it. I want to see where this goes. It makes you remember that these men are regular people with real flaws that can't afford to be imperfect sometimes.

[runawayboulder]

And I re-read the first arc of Avengers after seeing that moment at the end of NA#3. It puts everything in a whole new perspective.

[JewishHobbit]

So I went and did it. I got to the shop, skimmed the newest issues of Avengers and New Avengers, liked what I saw and got completely caught up in both titles. I need this like I need a hole in the head but I was just too interested. I read them, liked them, and will continue on for the time being. Avengers was good but I think New Avengers 3 got my attention like no other. Wow.

In addition to those I also got the Avengers Assemble Annual and hot DOG was it good. I've never been a big Vision fan but this issue made me realize that if Gage released an ongoing picking up where this one left off with the Young Avengers I would totally buy it.

[runawayboulder]

I'm starting to feel the same way about All New X-Men. I'm liking what I'm seeing out of Bendis here....I'm not gonna lie.

I've also been burned before but I may end up buying this book soon. I went from 50/50 to about 65/35.

[Slick]

New Avengers#3 was crazy!!! I loved how the ending tied into Cap's nightmare in Avengers#1. Avengers#5 was great a nice background story for Smasher.

[JewishHobbit]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

I'm starting to feel the same way about All New X-Men. I'm liking what I'm seeing out of Bendis here....I'm not gonna lie.

I've also been burned before but I may end up buying this book soon. I went from 50/50 to about 65/35.

It's totally worth the buy in my opinion. You know I like Bendis but I'm to the point where I forget he's writing it. It's just a good story and I get lost in it easily. I think the part that I love the most, and something that was covered a bit in the new issue this week, is that the Cyclops we have is the young idealistic Cyclops that I loved for years prior to Morrison douchebagging him up. It's refreshing... and then there's Jean, who I love and miss terribly. It all went down hill after she left so it's refreshing to have her back.

It's just a really good book and I'm curious what Bendis does with Uncanny X-Men. It's about on par with the first year of Wolverine & the X-Men for me so far and will likely surpass it easily.

[runawayboulder]

I've been thumbing it for some issues now just to see if the quality decreased at all in the typical fashion I'm used to getting from him but he's been doing some solid work I'll admit.

What I liked seeing in this issue was:

1)Teen Scott handing Teen Jean their wedding invitation and walking away without saying a word and

2)Mystique's "lit the fuse" and "screw them all" comments was so nonchalantly evil on her part it's not even funny. That may be one of the most villainous things she's done right there without lifting a finger.

Even lamenting about it just pushed me up to about 75/25. I'm somewhat impressed.

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I really liked this issue for those reasons as well. Honestly though, I can't really say it's any better or worse than the previous 6 issues. This quality has been consistent so far.

[THANOSRULES]

SO the AA Annual was good with Vision? I was planning on checking it out.

[Mr. Dent]

Ha, looking back through New Avengers #2, what Hickman/Marvel are doing now is so obvious (in a good way) with the announcement of "Infinity". Strange and Read talking about how the scale of this is "Infinite" and has "infinite possibilities" and that someone is "actively trying to cause the death of everything". Earth being the incursion point that causes the universes to collide which explains why Earth is being set up as an "untouchable point" and the most important planet in the universe now in the new Guardians book, and even Age of Ultron is tied in with it being an "alternate reality" plot, which matches what Bendis said about it having a twist at the end that will effect the entire Marvel universe. These New Avengers issues are basically the prelude to the Infinity crossover and even to the Guardians book. Knowing this, I have a new perspective on Hickman's Avengers titles. They definitely put the right guy on for this.

It's a very interesting premise and way to go about things that also ties into the movies, what with the Guardians having direct contact with the Avengers and the main Avengers title expanding the roster specifically because of cosmic threats. Liking what is being implied so far here.

Also, you know this issue is important when Marvel only puts 1 ad in it at the very end of the book.

Side note, I like how Cap call Iron Man Tony early in the issue and then calls him Anthony later on like he's scolding him.

On to issue 3.

[batnkevlar]

So Smasher is the grandkid of Dan Dare? And why was Mammoth in the Imperial Guard?

[Mr. Dent]

Hickman's Avengers solicitations

AVENGERS #11
JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • MIKE DEODATO (A)
COVER BY DUSTIN WEAVER

• As Shang-Chi battles an ancient enemy, the Avengers hang out in Hong Kong’s swankiest casino.
• Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Spider-Woman find out it doesn’t pay to gamble in the spy business.
• Cannonball and Sunspot play craps with a bunch of AIM Agents. AND WIN!

AVENGERS #12
JONATHAN HICKMAN & NICK SPENCER (W) • MIKE DEODATO (A)
COVER BY DUSTIN WEAVER

• A day in the life of the Avengers...in the Savage Land.
• The boys go hunting for dinosaurs and end up catching something else entirely.
• Hyperion and Captain Universe begin the godlike education of the transformed Savage Land children.

NEW AVENGERS #6
JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • STEVE EPTING (A)
COVER BY JOCK

• Using the knowledge gained from the Black Swan, the Illuminati rework all their plans and cross the uncrossable line.
• The first secret alliance is formed.
• If an incursion is normally RED, what does a BLUE one mean?

It looks like we're going to be getting more SoL in the main Avengers title. New Avengers sounds awesome.

[Doc Ock]

I really liked learning more about Smasher. More female superheros for the win! I get giddy with all the Shi'ar stuff. I wouldn't mind more to Izzy's backstory in the future.

[Mad Ones]

That all sounds amazing. Looks like Avengers is definitely going to pick up (not that it was bad before).