Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

[Raoul Duke]

So now you're shifting the argument to fit your opinion. i never said it didn't have an impact on the genre or movies in general. i simply said it wasn't the film that put comic book movies on the map, which you suggested.

it didn't. it was simply a very good comic book movie that had darker, more nihilistic elements. which is debatable to whether that is a good thing or not anyway. me personally? i like that dark, nihilistic edge, especially for batman. well, only for batman, actually.

[Brain Damage]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

So now you're shifting the argument to fit your opinion. i never said it didn't have an impact on the genre or movies in general. i simply said it wasn't the film that put comic book movies on the map, which you suggested.

it didn't. it was simply a very good comic book movie that had darker, more nihilistic elements. which is debatable to whether that is a good thing or not anyway. me personally? i like that dark, nihilistic edge, especially for batman.

Actually, I didn't.

I said: "TDK quite literally blended the comic book genre into the crime drama and proved that a comic book film could: a.) be treated with total seriousness and b.) make a gazillion dollars at the box office. It was the first comic book film to be able to do both."

It didn't put comic book films on the map. Superman did. You asked me what TDK did for the genre and I answered that it defied it and evolved it. Not that it put it on the map.

[Raoul Duke]

this is your statement which i was replying to.

"If they do do it right, it could do for video game films what TDK did for comic book films."

which seems to me you were suggesting that tdk made comic book movies credible and legitimate. video games have never had a credible and legitimate movie. so it's easy to see where i got that is what you were suggesting. if not i apologize.

[Brain Damage]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

this is your statement which i was replying to.

"If they do do it right, it could do for video game films what TDK did for comic book films."

which seems to me you were suggesting that tdk made comic book movies credible and legitimate. video games have never had a credible and legitimate movie. so it's easy to see where i got that is what you were suggesting. if not i apologize.

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from.

[CaptainClown]

The Dark Knight basically took a very silly idea and turned it into a crime thriller. The reason why it is praised is that it reached further audiences by not feeling like a comic book movie. It is heavily influential as you can see Sam Mendes openly admitting to the influence of the TDK.

Now it isn't ground breaking work, but why fans defend it and praise it is because it is probably the best expression of a series as a whole that the world can see, rather then a stereotype with niche appeal.

[redfirebird2008]

Would be nice if y'all actually talked about Tom Hardy's Bane in this thread instead of talking about the cultural impact of a 4.5 year old movie. Just saying.

[Raoul Duke]

i loved the scene where bane broke batman. bane's taunts and the voice inflections hardy used were just brilliant. sinister yet funny at the same time. the fight choreography itself still left much to be desired though in my opinion.

[redfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

i loved the scene where bane broke batman. bane's taunts and the voice inflections hardy used were just brilliant. sinister yet funny at the same time. the fight choreography itself still left much to be desired though in my opinion.

His sense of humor was great. Didn't expect him to be so funny.

[CaptainClown]

well you know what happens, we get a couple drinks in here a couple drinks there and next thing you know it you are defending the validity of all white skin on a joker.

Bane I do feel might have benefited from being a bit larger. like taller than Batman. I would have liked to get a feel of that during the film. I felt that while Bane was perfectly capable of being a match for Batman he didn't feel as much as a threat (Imo)
Scarecrow had the gas/crazy advantage
Joker sociopathic unpredictability
two-face the emotional unstability
Rahs believed in a cause willing to give it all up.

Bane just nah didn't really feel that threat. I don't know what would have done it for me.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally Posted by redfirebird2008

His sense of humor was great. Didn't expect him to be so funny.

yea, i also liked the part where gordon escaped and he calmly kicked his goon down into the sewer after him.

Originally Posted by CaptainClown

well you know what happens, we get a couple drinks in here a couple drinks there and next thing you know it you are defending the validity of all white skin on a joker.

Bane I do feel might have benefited from being a bit larger. like taller than Batman. I would have liked to get a feel of that during the film. I felt that while Bane was perfectly capable of being a match for Batman he didn't feel as much as a threat (Imo)
Scarecrow had the gas/crazy advantage
Joker sociopathic unpredictability
two-face the emotional unstability
Rahs believed in a cause willing to give it all up.

Bane just nah didn't really feel that threat. I don't know what would have done it for me.

i thought bane was suitably threatening... right up to the final reveal and his demise. kinda diminished the character for me. he wasn't some super genius schemer and freedom fighter, he was basically a love sick puppy with a silver tongue who was carrying out his boss' plots. he was also basically killed off screen, which was disappointing.

up until then though i thought he was brilliant.

[redfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

yea, i also liked the part where gordon escaped and he calmly kicked his goon down into the sewer after him.

"Then follow him!"

[CaptainClown]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

i thought bane was suitably threatening... right up to the final reveal and his demise. kinda diminished the character for me. he wasn't some super genius schemer and freedom fighter, he was basically a love sick puppy with a silver tongue who was carrying out his boss' plots. he was also basically killed off screen, which was disappointing.

up until then though i thought he was brilliant.

Ya, his end was disappointing.

I really am trying to put my finger on it on why I didn't feel threatened. Eh I will come back to it.

I just HATE how his mask pipes were regulating some gas but I have no idea where the gas was located. Eh just bothered me.

[Fudgie]

Bane's death was so humiliating. I almost felt bad for the guy.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

i thought bane was suitably threatening... right up to the final reveal and his demise. kinda diminished the character for me. he wasn't some super genius schemer and freedom fighter, he was basically a love sick puppy with a silver tongue who was carrying out his boss' plots. he was also basically killed off screen, which was disappointing.

up until then though i thought he was brilliant.

Bane's intelligence remains untouched (with his calculations involving the fusion reactor and his precision to hinder the GCPD and isolate Gotham from the outside world), he was never a freedom fighter (that was cleared up instantly early in the movie -- excommunicated from the LoS for his extreme radical nature) and he wasn't a servant to Talia.

Perhaps the biggest misconception about Bane's and Talia's relationship is that Bane was an employee or henchman, and he was in love with her, but I don't see how either one of those theories fit into what we saw. The belief that Bane loved Talia more than a little sister and/or daughter, could never really be confirmed. Bane didn't display any intimacy towards Talia hinting at anything more. In regards to Bane taking orders, Talia's plead to keep Bruce alive just long enough to feel 'the fire' was not an order. And even if it was an order, Bane disobeyed without hesitation.

Bane and Talia were partners. Both were immensely loyal to one another. If Bane were anything less, I doubt Talia would have taken the time to fix Bane's mask within minutes of their demise.

[Raoul Duke]

i'm not suggesting her loved her in a romantic way. a brother-sister relationship is the most accurate description i'd guess.

but still, to me he seemed the no 2 in the relationship. he was her bulldog. he was carrying out her plots and schemes. he wasn't a revolutionary with his own free will like i expected and hoped.

again i'm not suggesting he wasn't intelligent or formidable on his own. he's obviously capable enough to carry out her plans. but that's the point, it was talia's plans, she was the one in charge.

personally i'd have liked it if he double crossed her. all along he was plotting to take over her "empire" for his own means, whilst she is thinking that he is her loyal bulldog. it's revealed that he was just biding his time to set his own plans in motion, using her and the league of shadows' resources. perhaps out of revenge for how ra's treated him, creating another parallel with batman.

and his death was kind of humiliating. he was basically killed off screen. very after-thoughtish. the ending was so hectic and break neck it just seemed they needed to get bane out of the way as quickly as possible as soon as the true nature of him and talia was revealed.

[NosfeRomas]

It was dissapointing but i can't see any other way for him to die at that particular moment in the film, it was either that or some stupid Deus Ex Machina like a piece of floor droping on his head, because Batman doesnt kill. it was Selina or Bruce dead with a very gloomy and not right ending.

[DoomsdayApex]

The issue here though is that you have no evidence citing it was all of Talia's planning that made Bane appear like a formidable opponent. It's just speculation. For all we know, Talia played the role of the Queen who shared in the King's spoils (who just desired one specifically).

[Raoul Duke]

i understand. but that ties into my idea of bane becoming the true "big bad" at the end, not talia. bane goes out with a bang, instead of a whimper.

oh well, still really enjoyed the film.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

The issue here though is that you have no evidence citing it was all of Talia's planning that made Bane appear like a formidable opponent. It's just speculation. For all we know, Talia played the role of the Queen who shared in the King's spoils (who just desired one desperately).

i don't think so. in that scene with talia's reveal it's pretty clear that bane is the subservient one. they are not on equal footing. he did disobey her order to spare batman true, but i wish it would have been taken a step further, with bane double crossing her for his own means.

[NosfeRomas]

He wasn't her bulldog, they both had the same goal, Ras Al Ghul's goal, to destroy gotham and break Batman both mentally and physically. Talia didn't like her father but as Simon Gruber said "There's a difference, you know, between not liking one's brother and not caring when some dumb Irish flatfoot drops him out of a window" it's the same thing, they all followed the same path, the LoS path. Bane had the body to do what Tali couldn't and Talia had the tits to do what Bane couldn't.

[DoomsdayApex]

Again, you're assuming Talia was the only 'big baddie' at the end. Sure, I didn't appreciate his exit, but I wasn't a fan of Two-Face's and The Joker's either. Yet, that didn't diminish the characters and their accomplishments.

[Raoul Duke]

bane certainly wasn't the big bad at the end. he got smoked like an after thought.

i still think he was a great villain, a great character. but the reveal and his demise did diminish him. it did take away from his feats because it showed that he was not in fact the mastermind, he was merely the guy carrying out the masterminds plans. he was the muscle, she was the brains (although he was still obviously smart and capable). like i said, i'd have preferred it if he in fact was planning to take over the LoS for himself, to usurp talia.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

i don't think so. in that scene with talia's reveal it's pretty clear that bane is the subservient one. they are not on equal footing. he did disobey her order to spare batman true, but i wish it would have been taken a step further, with bane double crossing her for his own means.

I don't see how Talia's reveal made Bane into a subservient bulldog. Talia's story and continuous use of the word 'friend' to describe Bane pretty much solidified his status with Talia.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

I don't see how Talia's reveal made Bane into a subservient bulldog. Talia's story and continuous use of the word 'friend' to describe Bane pretty much solidified his status with Talia.

he is clearly subservient to her in my view. it's symbolised by her standing above him and looking down on him. she is the boss. just because she calls him "friend" doesn't mean they are on equal footing.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke

bane certainly wasn't the big bad at the end. he got smoked like an after thought.

That doesn't make Bane any less of partner. If endings defined a villain's rank, then there's a voluminous amount of films that featured 'henchman' exits.

i still think he was a great villain, a great character. but the reveal and his demise did diminish him. it did take away from his feats because it showed that he was not in fact the mastermind, he was merely the guy carrying out the masterminds plans. he was the muscle, she was the brains (although he was still obviously smart and capable). like i said, i'd have preferred it if he in fact was planning to take over the LoS for himself, to usurp talia.

Again, you're hypothesizing. There's no proof that Talia was the master schemer.