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Old 05-25-2013, 10:32 PM   #776
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Default Re: Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

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hat Talia was the true boss or Talia and Bane worked together, I will just say this: they both needed each other with this plan of theirs. Bane brought the muscle and the voice that the LoS needed during this siege; Talia brought in the mind in helping the foundation of the energy project as well as being hidden until she could make the move, because of Bane, to get the head chair for Wayne Enterprises.
Plus, the only order we actually see Talia give Bane... He immediately attempts to do the exact opposite.

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Old 05-25-2013, 10:34 PM   #777
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The people of Gotham didn't do much of anything, to be honest. They were worth less to the story than random NPCs in a video game.
Which sucked. I missed the Gotham personality from the previous movies.

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Old 05-25-2013, 11:44 PM   #778
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The people of Gotham didn't do much of anything, to be honest. They were worth less to the story than random NPCs in a video game.
I think they did, it just wasn't shown. Like they showed a lot of poor people ransacking rich people's houses. But showing more wouldn't have gained anything

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Old 05-25-2013, 11:52 PM   #779
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Default Re: Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

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Yeah, at least Ra's and Joker believed in what they were saying. When they're touting their crazy ideals it's great because you know they believe in what they're saying.



That's just it, the people of Gotham did not rise up. They all cowered like frightened sheep during Bane's siege.
I saw it differently there seemed to be more of a class divide in that regards. I remember a lot of the people cowering being the very wealthy who were being looted by the mobs of citizens.

Now it wasn't all the citizens but a fair number of people did seem to buy into what bane was saying.

The whole revolutionary aspect alone in Bane's conquest of gotham could have spanned it's own movie. So it's obvious that element was truncated somewhat.

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Old 05-25-2013, 11:58 PM   #780
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Default Re: Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

The only time you saw a class divide was during Bane's Blackgate speech. That's it. You don't hear how Gotham's people feel about this revolution. How they felt about the Dent cover up being exposed. Nothing.

Most boring "revolution" ever.

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Old 05-26-2013, 03:12 AM   #781
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Plus, the only order we actually see Talia give Bane... He immediately attempts to do the exact opposite.
The "biggest" argument some will try to bring up in that Talia was the boss of it all which can be cut down to size when Bane just doesn't even listen. The beginning of the film, someone listens to Bane's orders and mentions that the fire is rising, but when Talia wants Batman to feel the fire? Bane just tells Batman he can imagine the fire.

But, anywho..."boring"? Ehhh, debatable I suppose, but this film was meant to be more of a character piece when Nolan was trying to end Bruce's arc while building up Blake's. I found the montage after the Blackgate speech to be amazing and what followed it were bits and pieces of what has happened after the montage. Could there have been more? Absolutely yes, but with the IMAX time restraints and the focus needing to be on other things, it's hard for me to complain with what we got. The kangaroo court, the lower class betting on who survives the exile on the ice, the rich being forced to live under one roof(whether it be the building Fox was in or the orphanage), the poor having a field day and embracing the "storm"...it sufficed, imo.

My biggest complaints isn't how the Gothamites reacted to Bane's siege. What we got with that is fine since we did get a rebellion in the form of the leftover GCPD and that's what needed to be used as such a rebellion, but what I wanted the most was Gotham's voice in the first return of Batman and then his disappearance. Those two would be my problems when it came to Gotham's lack-of voice/soul in TDKR.

And when it came to the Dent thing....Bane made the reveal and things had to move on where Nolan focused what was at hand. Could it have been a topic when the siege was over? Yes, of course, but what could you have done in the last ten minutes of the film? I find it more poetic that Gordon is a war hero again as he was mentioned as such in the beginning of the film. In the end, he was looked at as a hero as Batman was in the end and that's probably why he is still the Commissioner at the end of the film.


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Old 05-26-2013, 04:05 AM   #782
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The only time you saw a class divide was during Bane's Blackgate speech. That's it. You don't hear how Gotham's people feel about this revolution. How they felt about the Dent cover up being exposed. Nothing.

Most boring "revolution" ever.
Yeah but the movie was long enough already. I prefer it the way it was without going into huge detail about the revolution, instead just leaving a lot of it as implication.

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Old 05-26-2013, 05:49 AM   #783
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Yeah, at least Ra's and Joker believed in what they were saying. When they're touting their crazy ideals it's great because you know they believe in what they're saying.




This.

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Old 05-26-2013, 06:53 AM   #784
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Can you explain that?

I thought it was brilliant how they had bane play the political radical only as a guise to have the people rise up only so he could squash them down literally.
The revolution was indeed a ruse, but it had a point.

As far as the rest of the world was concerned, Bane had given the trigger for the bomb to a Gotham citizen. What kind of message do you think is sent to the rest of the world when the city blows up as a result of a common citizen pulling the trigger (not to mention when you consider that, as I'll point out later, Gotham is supposedly the greatest city in the world)? I mean, sure Gordon, Blake, Fox, etc. knew about the ruse regarding the bomb, but they were inside Gotham. As for the rest of the world, it would essentially look like the citizens of Gotham taking the destiny of the city in their hands, inspired by the words of a revolutionary terrorist. It's basically a continuation of Joker's 'when the chips are down, these uh, these civilised people, they'll eat each other' (in other words, the ferry experiment), but at a much larger scale. This also meshes well with Ra's' objective in BB, as well - 'Tomorrow, the world will watch in horror as the world's greatest city tears itself apart through fear'. It's also why the LoS comes back for Gotham, even though it's supposedly 'clean' - in the Nolanverse, it's the world's greatest city. Bane and Talia were looking to set an example to the rest of the world, much like Ra's in BB. What better way to make that example, than have 'the world's greatest city' blow itself up?

I myself was rather disappointed when I first saw the movie and the whole revolution angle was a ruse, as Bane just came off as a big phony. But like
I said earlier, the revolution angle wasn't necessary in order to achieve their goals. They could've merely held the city to ransom with the bomb and then blow it up. But no, Bane makes a big fuss about the citizens 'taking control' and all that jazz. There's a point to it, not to mention Bane keeps spouting stuff like 'the next era of Western civilisation'. That line in itself meshes very well with the idea of setting an example to the rest of the world.

To me, the truth behind Bane and Talia's relationship is not as black and white as some make it out to be. It's quite obvious from their plan that they both had their input - Bane with the revolution angle, Talia with the revenge on Bruce angle. And of course, their main goal is achieving what Ra's set out to do. It may seem lame and lazy at first, but it's the details of the way they execute their plan that makes it different and fresh.

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Old 05-26-2013, 08:05 AM   #785
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Yeah but the movie was long enough already. I prefer it the way it was without going into huge detail about the revolution, instead just leaving a lot of it as implication.
Well that's great for you, but for a lot of us, the revolution aspect of the story was the most interesting premise established in the movie. The fact that all we see of it is a quick montage, and worse that it's revealed as a cover up for a generic revenge/blow-up-the-city plot was incredibly disappointing.

This movie needed to get its priorities straight, damn it!

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Old 05-26-2013, 08:26 AM   #786
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Default Re: Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

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Well that's great for you, but for a lot of us, the revolution aspect of the story was the most interesting premise established in the movie. The fact that all we see of it is a quick montage, and worse that it's revealed as a cover up for a generic revenge/blow-up-the-city plot was incredibly disappointing.

This movie needed to get its priorities straight, damn it!
It did. Its main aim was to make us care about the Bruce Wayne character and his journey, as well as bring his story to a satisfactory conclusion. This did indeed mean that certain interesting aspects of the story (such as Bane's backstory) were underdevelopped, but there's no question that its first priority was to bring Bruce's story to an end.

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Old 05-26-2013, 08:58 AM   #787
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Default Re: Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

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Well that's great for you, but for a lot of us, the revolution aspect of the story was the most interesting premise established in the movie. The fact that all we see of it is a quick montage, and worse that it's revealed as a cover up for a generic revenge/blow-up-the-city plot was incredibly disappointing.

This movie needed to get its priorities straight, damn it!
Exactly. The city is held hostage for 5 months under the guise that it's all based on a revolution of Gotham's people, and we barely see a thing about how Gotham is reacting or feel about this revolution. Or the Dent cover up. It's all swept under the rug.

It bored me.

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Old 05-26-2013, 12:44 PM   #788
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Default Re: Tom Hardy as Bane XXX

Im kind of glad we didn't see too much of Gotham citizens reacting to the siege or the Dent cover up. The weakest element of the first two films were all the extras and their bad acting/reactions to the chaos. We didn't really get that in this movie, im happy about it.

And Brain Damage, they DID get their priorities straight. To quote BatmanBeyond
Quote:
It did. Its main aim was to make us care about the Bruce Wayne character and his journey, as well as bring his story to a satisfactory conclusion. This did indeed mean that certain interesting aspects of the story (such as Bane's backstory) were underdevelopped, but there's no question that its first priority was to bring Bruce's story to an end.
That was the priority.

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Old 05-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #789
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It did. Its main aim was to make us care about the Bruce Wayne character and his journey, as well as bring his story to a satisfactory conclusion. This did indeed mean that certain interesting aspects of the story (such as Bane's backstory) were underdevelopped, but there's no question that its first priority was to bring Bruce's story to an end.

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Old 05-26-2013, 01:24 PM   #790
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Plus, the only order we actually see Talia give Bane... He immediately attempts to do the exact opposite.
True, but to fair, he did it AFTER she left. Kinda has the same amount of impact as giving your boss the finger behind his back. I don't find that as impressive had he actually told her 'no...this is personal, I want to finish him myself"...or something along those lines. THAT I would have liked to have seen.

I personally did not like the whole ruse/Trojan horse routine that was pulled by Talia/Bane. I find Bane's scenes even less impactful on repeated viewings as I know they are all apart of a charade. No sense really arguing about though. Those that loved the fake out that Talia orchestrated is fine by me and I'm sure those don't see it my way are completely fine with me having my own opinion about it as well.


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Old 05-26-2013, 04:05 PM   #791
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Ughhh. It doesn't take anything away from the scenes. Bane wasn't Talia's *****. They were in it together. Nolan having Bane go against Talia's order to keep Bats alive, was his way of driving the point home that Bane isn't just a lackey. They were in it together. It wasn't her mission. It was THEIR mission.

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Old 05-26-2013, 04:05 PM   #792
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True, but to fair, he did it AFTER she left. Kinda has the same amount of impact as giving your boss the finger behind his back. I don't find that as impressive had he actually told her 'no...this is personal, I want to finish him myself"...or something along those lines. THAT I would have liked to have seen.

I personally did not like the whole ruse/Trojan horse routine that was pulled by Talia/Bane. I find Bane's scenes even less impactful on repeated viewings as I know they are all apart of a charade. No sense really arguing about though. Those that loved the fake out that Talia orchestrated is fine by me and I'm sure those don't see it my way are completely fine with me having my own opinion about it as well.


Such an awful argument..."he did it AFTER Talia left", lol. Was he supposed to disobey Talia's order while she way saying goodbye to him?

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Old 05-26-2013, 04:23 PM   #793
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Well that's great for you, but for a lot of us, the revolution aspect of the story was the most interesting premise established in the movie. The fact that all we see of it is a quick montage, and worse that it's revealed as a cover up for a generic revenge/blow-up-the-city plot was incredibly disappointing.

This movie needed to get its priorities straight, damn it!
hehe you can't please everyone. I'm just glad they pleased me.

I'm a man of simple tastes. I like things like batman dressing up and beating people, Bane saying cool things in a funny voice and Catwoman bending over unecessarily. I can honestly say I was satisfied.

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Old 05-26-2013, 04:33 PM   #794
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True, but to fair, he did it AFTER she left. Kinda has the same amount of impact as giving your boss the finger behind his back. I don't find that as impressive had he actually told her 'no...this is personal, I want to finish him myself"...or something along those lines. THAT I would have liked to have seen.

I personally did not like the whole ruse/Trojan horse routine that was pulled by Talia/Bane. I find Bane's scenes even less impactful on repeated viewings as I know they are all apart of a charade. No sense really arguing about though. Those that loved the fake out that Talia orchestrated is fine by me and I'm sure those don't see it my way are completely fine with me having my own opinion about it as well.
Exactly. If it was an equal partnership he'd have said he intended to kill Batman himself by his own hand when she told him not to kill him. He didn't argue with her. He waited until Talia left and knew she wasn't coming back, and then intended to kill Batman.

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Old 05-26-2013, 04:50 PM   #795
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Ughhh. It doesn't take anything away from the scenes. Bane wasn't Talia's *****. They were in it together. Nolan having Bane go against Talia's order to keep Bats alive, was his way of driving the point home that Bane isn't just a lackey. They were in it together. It wasn't her mission. It was THEIR mission.
The truth is that Talia's reveal is indeed done in a moment where it kinda takes away from Bane, and the initial, knee-jerk reaction was probably, more often than not, 'Booo! They made Bane Talia's *****!'. Of course, in retrospect, that doesn't really hold true at all. That being said, I don't think the Bane disobeying Talia after she left argument holds much water either. It's obvious Bane respected Talia a hell of a lot (he probably felt indebted to her, as well), so why would he defy her right in front of her eyes, not to mention before what was, in their minds, their last goodbye?

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True, but to fair, he did it AFTER she left. Kinda has the same amount of impact as giving your boss the finger behind his back. I don't find that as impressive had he actually told her 'no...this is personal, I want to finish him myself"...or something along those lines. THAT I would have liked to have seen.

I personally did not like the whole ruse/Trojan horse routine that was pulled by Talia/Bane. I find Bane's scenes even less impactful on repeated viewings as I know they are all apart of a charade. No sense really arguing about though. Those that loved the fake out that Talia orchestrated is fine by me and I'm sure those don't see it my way are completely fine with me having my own opinion about it as well.
Yep. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

For me, the scene where Bane releases the Blackgate prisoners, while holding one of his speeches, is one of the best moments in the movie. I think I would've liked to have seen more scenes of the revolution, such as the ones featured during that particular scene, but Hardy's acting, the passion and fervor behind Bane's words, his body-language, as well as the awesome music (especially from 'Step forward those who would serve') just sell that scene for me.

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Old 05-26-2013, 07:03 PM   #796
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Exactly. If it was an equal partnership he'd have said he intended to kill Batman himself by his own hand when she told him not to kill him. He didn't argue with her. He waited until Talia left and knew she wasn't coming back, and then intended to kill Batman.
Again....Bane should have said he wanted to kill Batman by his own hands while Talia was saying goodbye to him?


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Old 05-26-2013, 07:12 PM   #797
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[QUOTE=BatmanBeyond;25935111]

Yep. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

QUOTE]

Indeed, always nice when people are respectful of others opinions.

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Old 05-26-2013, 07:28 PM   #798
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Edit: Ahh, nevermind


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Old 05-26-2013, 11:08 PM   #799
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Such an awful argument..."he did it AFTER Talia left", lol. Was he supposed to disobey Talia's order while she way saying goodbye to him?
Actually YOUR argument isn't much better at all. You keep bringing up the point that him disobeying Talia is proof he is not her henchman, yet he waited until she was gone and he was SURE the city would be destroyed in a few minutes. All this proves is that he had enough respect not to kill Bruce in front of her, it doesn't prove that he is NOT her henchman/lackey.

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Old 05-26-2013, 11:11 PM   #800
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Actually YOUR argument isn't much better at all. You keep bringing up the point that him disobeying Talia is proof he is not her henchman, yet he waited until she was gone and he was SURE the city would be destroyed in a few minutes. All this proves is that he had enough respect not to kill Bruce in front of her, it doesn't prove that he is NOT her henchman/lackey.
If he was a henchmen, he could have just waited for the bomb to go off since as you pointed out, both he and Talia were sure the city would be destroyed. The idea that Bane should say no to Talia's one order then and there while she's saying goodbye is kinda mute. She's saying goodbye so Bane should just interrupt her and say "You know, I'm going to just kill Batman now." Lol. Yah, I don't think so.

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