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Old 10-26-2012, 03:08 AM   #501
Alexei Belyakov
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I'm not saying he does and I'm not arguing about whether she would have known better if it was Mystique (I too watched it to make sure), but that's not why I'm saying it doesn't work. To me it's a bit much considering that Xavier is there to recruit her. If you want to pretend that follows First Class then it would just be nonsense writing to say that Magneto was tricking her to go to Xavier's school or that he was trying to recruit her into the Brotherhood and it backfires. Those rectons and any other ideas call for another story entirely which consequences would have to played out. Even then it would still be, in my eyes, a convoluted mess.

In short, it's not the scene itself but what is implied. I'd rather it just be simply ignored rather than tackled because as bad as X3 was it just makes for worse storytelling to insert retcons like that.
The way I see it, at least the best way to make it work and fit the rest of X3, is that Charles & Erik had been fighting over Jean for decades. This would actually add more weight to the scene in the house where she kills Charles & the scene in the woods where she almost turns on Erik.

Erik & Mystique went to Jean's house to recruit her for The Brotherhood but at some point after, Charles found her & rescued her & applied the mental blocks.

It works for me.

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:26 AM   #502
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

Ok I had to think really hard on this one and I might be off but instead of trying to reconcile the continuity issues between the X-Films maybe just as in the comics when Rachael Summers took Kitty's mind to possess the mind of the younger Kitty not only did she go back in time but also in realities because if I'm correct even in the DOFP comic the events in the present day were different then how they were to play out in that present day of the X-Men.

So in saying that, Maybe the events in XM-FC were different than X1,X2 and X3 because it was a different reality but technically they're the same people. So the conditions on Xaviers paralysis played out different in the main continuity then it did in XM-FC. Which is why they don't line up.

As far as how XMO-W fits The walking Charles Xaviers can stay sans X-3 timeline and the two Emma's (As well as the two Moris's) can be explained by the above alternate reality theories. Its a reach but I think this is where this movie is going.

Thoughts?

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:29 AM   #503
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

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Ok I had to think really hard on this one and I might be off but instead of trying to reconcile the continuity issues between the X-Films maybe just as in the comics when Rachael Summers took Kitty's mind to possess the mind of the younger Kitty not only did she go back in time but also in realities because if I'm correct even in the DOFP comic the events in the present day were different then how they were to play out in that present day of the X-Men.

So in saying that, Maybe the events in XM-FC were different than X1,X2 and X3 because it was a different reality but technically they're the same people. So the conditions on Xaviers paralysis played out different in the main continuity then it did in XM-FC. Which is why they don't line up.

As far as how XMO-W fits The walking Charles Xaviers can stay sans X-3 timeline and the two Emma's (As well as the two Moris's) can be explained by the above alternate reality theories. Its a reach but I think this is where this movie is going.

Thoughts?
Origins is not canon.

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:30 AM   #504
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Origins is not canon.
Say it is? There is no one from Fox that say it isn't..

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:33 AM   #505
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Say it is? There is no one from Fox that say it isn't..
Aronofsky & Jackman both confirmed it was a one-off in 2011.

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:36 AM   #506
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Aronofsky & Jackman both confirmed it was a one-off in 2011.
Fine what ever... Everything else?

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:44 AM   #507
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And for the record James Mangold is quoted
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“Where this film sits in the universe of the films is after them all…Jean Grey is gone, most of the X-Men are disbanded or gone, so there’s a tremendous sense of isolation for him.”
Not all, except.. So you keep bringing up Aronofsky for reasons I don't know but his script is scrapped..

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Old 10-26-2012, 04:12 AM   #508
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

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Never in the scene does Xavier read Jean's mind. She reads his.

The Mystique angle works.
No, it doesn't. "Charles" telepathically tells Jean that he knows she's trying trying to probe his and Eric's minds. That's something only the real deal could've done.

Not to mention the conversation between the two two in the beginning, which would only make sense with the real Charles unless Erik and Mystique were doing an elaborate case of kayfabe, which is just too convoluted.


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Old 10-26-2012, 05:20 AM   #509
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No, it doesn't. "Charles" telepathically tells Jean that he knows she's trying trying to probe his and Eric's minds. That's something only the real deal could've done.

Not to mention the conversation between the two two in the beginning, which would only make sense with the real Charles unless Erik and Mystique were doing an elaborate case of kayfabe, which is just too convoluted.
All Mystique had to do was assume Jean was reading their minds & think inside her head "Its very rude you know..."

Again, Charles never read her mind in that scene.

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Old 10-26-2012, 06:18 AM   #510
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

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All Mystique had to do was assume Jean was reading their minds & think inside her head "Its very rude you know..."

Again, Charles never read her mind in that scene.
However, that is your interpretation of that scene. Others would say he did telepathically speak to her. Plus people would argue that reading minds isn't simply listening for an inner monologue and that sifting through his mind Jean would be able to identify who he is not just from random thoughts, but from the mind itself.

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Old 10-26-2012, 06:24 AM   #511
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All Mystique had to do was assume Jean was reading their minds & think inside her head "Its very rude you know..."

Again, Charles never read her mind in that scene.
Quite a reach IMO. Mystique somehow correctly assumes that Jean's reading BOTH their minds at that particular moment AND projects the appropriate thought response? That's like Light Yagami/Lelouch Lamperouge-class of convoluted foresight. Not to mention that reading her mind exposes her as an impostor right then and there to the problem child.

And that doesn't explain the earlier conversation between "Charles" and Erik, where they converse like the actual Charles and Erik.

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:11 AM   #512
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

This movie taking place after X3 definitely makes me interested now. Instead if trying to figure out what's in between everything with continuity and be bogged down by it, it was smart to move forward. The comic isn't a prequel anyway. X3 isn't a completely terrible film with good ideas and moments so if they expand upon those ideas (like the idea of Logan having to kill Jean) then this makes things more interesting. And I'm glad Mangold is tackling the theme of immortality because it is something that should have been done in the spin off. Plus whether people like it or not, X3 was their most successful X-Men film and they would be foolish to ignore it. To the average Joe, it would just be confusing. I also give credit in the time of constant rebooting they are sticking to their guns with the established continuity.

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:13 AM   #513
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

X3 needed most of its deleted/alternate scenes re-inserted into the flick. I made a fan-edit that's IMO much better than the theatrical cut. However it still suffered from its short run-time and lack of character development. And killing off Cyclops. wtf

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:14 AM   #514
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

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Origins is not canon.
yeah but the new director may have changed that? are we assuming he just took the already done script by Aronofsky and changed nothing?

wasn't the original idea that the film had no ties at all to the xmen franchise but now we have cameos and whatever

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:32 AM   #515
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

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This movie taking place after X3 definitely makes me interested now. Instead if trying to figure out what's in between everything with continuity and be bogged down by it, it was smart to move forward. The comic isn't a prequel anyway. X3 isn't a completely terrible film with good ideas and moments so if they expand upon those ideas (like the idea of Logan having to kill Jean) then this makes things more interesting. And I'm glad Mangold is tackling the theme of immortality because it is something that should have been done in the spin off. Plus whether people like it or not, X3 was their most successful X-Men film and they would be foolish to ignore it. To the average Joe, it would just be confusing. I also give credit in the time of constant rebooting they are sticking to their guns with the established continuity.
The only time they tackled it at all in Origins was the opening credits sequence...which was arguably the best sequence in the entire movie. I'm glad they're dealing with it again as well. It's one of the more fascinating aspects of his character that's never really been addressed in the movies, except when Jean pointed out in X1 that he was probably older than the professor.

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:33 AM   #516
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yeah but the new director may have changed that? are we assuming he just took the already done script by Aronofsky and changed nothing?

wasn't the original idea that the film had no ties at all to the xmen franchise but now we have cameos and whatever
Especially with this whole DOFP thing happening, we have to assume that whatever was originally meant to be a one-off isn't anymore. Especially now that there's reportedly a Jean Grey cameo, it's likely this will tie in somehow with how they plan to continue the series from here.

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:12 AM   #517
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I think we are going to be In a Dark Knight rises situation where jean appears In dream or hallunication of wolverine.

After James Magold's Interview I can accept the last Stand In cannon but with Bryan Singer most likely taking over as director of days of future Past you have to wonder
about will they actully say X-Men disband directly on screen or that Wolverine left.And In Jean's cameo will he feel guilty about killing her(Tying Into the Last Stand) or will he
just be mourning Jean's death.

I hope In upcoming live chat someone directly asks the contunity question with last Stand and Origins.And someone asks Hugh about Days of future Past appearance.

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:17 AM   #518
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Talking to Empire Magazine, director James Mangold (3:10 To Yuma) has shared his thoughts on the tone of the sequel and reveals that we should expect to find Wolverine in a dark place next Summer.

Quote:
"It's rooted in drama. Effectively almost every superhero film, in a sense, revolves around some large group of humanity that's either killed or held hostage while superheroes battle it out with supervilains. The essential driving forces of this movie are interpersonal and dramatic, about love, bitterness, loss, vengeance, redemption, depression, suicide, conquering inner demons - it's going to make it a very different film than people have seen."
Quote:
"The cultural qualities that Japan and its people bring - honour, a sense of duty, of conflict - really fit beautifully around Logan. Our film find Logan at a point where he's very much a ronin - a samurai without a master. Anyone he ever had a connection to is either dead or gone."

Quote:
"When I say realistic, what I mean is that it's not built on 70-foot lizards from outer space. Our goal is to try to be a little less super-CG and wires, and a little more hardcore. I want the film to feel analogue. You always have large-scale action and adventure - it wouldn't be a movie about gods if you didn't have epic physicality. But we all feel we're making a Japanese noir picture with tentpole action in it."

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:25 AM   #519
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Default Re: News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

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But we all feel we're making a Japanese noir picture with tentpole action in it."
I hope the movie can deliver on this!

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Old 10-26-2012, 11:38 AM   #520
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Those quotes are getting me EXCITED!!!

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:10 PM   #521
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I think we can look forward t great ride next summer with the Wolverine.

The less CGI and wires are more harcore suggest the action will Be Wolverine VS Ninja
action.They aren't adding other mutants Into film.The Silver Samurai could be portrayed as ninja with electrifed armor and not a mutant like earlier draft.

A Japanese Noir picture with tentpole action should claim the worry.

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:28 PM   #522
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Although I would have loved Aronofsky's vision, Mangold is a solid director with a good track record. I expect nothing less then a quality film from him. That equals strong box office numbers and Wolverine on the path back to greatness.

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Old 10-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #523
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Nobody and I mean nobody on here or the internet any where:

a) wanted this to be a sequel
b) wanted any part of his motivations to be about Jean's death

I can't believe people are so complacent about this. It's like being told by your dad that you get a BMW for your 16th birthday and when you walk out in the drive way there is a Ford Fiesta. It's like once again Fox has something so simple and amazing in front of their faces and what do they do? The movie could still be good, I can't say it will be crap this early...but dear god how do they so easily set themselves up for epic failures?
They're never going to have a timeline or the feel of a 'cinematic universe' unless these films feel they are part of a single canvas.

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Old 10-27-2012, 02:41 PM   #524
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They're never going to have a timeline or the feel of a 'cinematic universe' unless these films feel they are part of a single canvas.
Not necessarily true. The Bond films exist quite well in their own loose continuity. And honestly, I'm okay with ignoring some of the poor decisions the previous films have made. If this is post X3, I don't want to see someone else playing an older Professor X in the future X-men films (since you'd have to if you really wanted to follow X3's continuity). I don't want Cyclops to be dead, and I really would have prefered it had Logan not been the one to kill Jean, but I don't they're going to ignore that one.

Basically, if you want to try and work all the films in a continuity, that's fine. But do what First Class did and ignore the bad stuff. I'm all for a loose continuity, that doesn't bother me.

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Old 10-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #525
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Not necessarily true. The Bond films exist quite well in their own loose continuity. And honestly, I'm okay with ignoring some of the poor decisions the previous films have made. If this is post X3, I don't want to see someone else playing an older Professor X in the future X-men films (since you'd have to if you really wanted to follow X3's continuity). I don't want Cyclops to be dead, and I really would have prefered it had Logan not been the one to kill Jean, but I don't they're going to ignore that one.

Basically, if you want to try and work all the films in a continuity, that's fine. But do what First Class did and ignore the bad stuff. I'm all for a loose continuity, that doesn't bother me.
First Class really only ignored 5 minutes of X3 & 5 minutes in Origins.

As of now, the continuity isn't completely shattered as some claim. It just has a few bumps in the road.

Frankly, the GA of 2013/2014 isn't going to remember any of those miniscule fractures to the continuity. Only we will.

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