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Old 09-29-2012, 03:46 PM   #751
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

Millar is best when he's working with characters he creates. Established ones...not so much. He single-handedly made everyone in The Ultimates a superdouche.

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Old 09-29-2012, 03:51 PM   #752
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

The first arc of Ultimate X-Men was pretty good. Ultimate Fantastic Four was a travesty.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #753
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

I was specifically talking about The Ultimates volumes 1&2. Haven't read the Ultimate X-Men series. Was he the writer on that, too?

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #754
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

Yeah, he was the writer on the first bit of all three (Ultimates/UXM/UFF)

And I know you were referring specifically to Ultimates, I was just expanding on the point.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:12 PM   #755
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1 View Post
[in response to my question]

Read just about any of Mark Millar's Marvel comics.

That said, his overseeing things at Fox might not necessarily be terrible for those movies. I've never been a fan of Brian Michael Bendis' Marvel comics or Joe Quesada's leadership at Marvel, yet both of them have been consultants for all of the Phase 1 movies and those have turned out fine.
(And many others talked about Millar's work on various Ultimates properties. )

What about the Civil War story? From the plot summary I've been wanting to read it.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:20 PM   #756
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

If you like Iron Man as a character I would suggest not reading Civil War.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:31 PM   #757
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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The first arc of Ultimate X-Men was pretty good. Ultimate Fantastic Four was a travesty.
Eh, I liked his Ultimate FF run better than his regular FF run. He came up with the ingenius Marvel zombies and his skrull story was pretty cool.

Ultimate X-men was really great and the truth is his run on the Ultimates is one of the best Avengers stories of all time. His characters weren't perfect and that's the point. He was trying to say something about the times we were in while he was writing it.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #758
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

I have mixed feelings about the Iron Man character. (On a personal level, underneath the funny quips, he's kind of bad news) I certainly have reservations about the actions he took as described in the CW plot summary, but that kind of made me want to read the story.

Do you think Millar was unfair to the characters (as it sounds like he was in the various Ultimates titles) or was it a well-done story? (even if the characters take actions you wouldn't have wanted them to take)

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:40 PM   #759
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

I would say the reverse, actually: if you like Cap, don't read Civil War, as he behaves as bad there as does in AVX.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #760
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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I have mixed feelings about the Iron Man character. (On a personal level, underneath the funny quips, he's kind of bad news) I certainly have reservations about the actions he took as described in the CW plot summary, but that kind of made me want to read the story.

Do you think Millar was unfair to the characters (as it sounds like he was in the various Ultimates titles) or was it a well-done story? (even if the characters take actions you wouldn't have wanted them to take)
He completely destroyed Iron Man as a character. Stark is the out-and-out villain of the piece, a selfish, irredeemable fascist. (So is Mr Fantastic!)

And Cap isn't exactly treated with respect, either.

I hear they've done similar to Cyclops in Avengers vs X-Men.

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Old 09-29-2012, 05:01 PM   #761
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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He completely destroyed Iron Man as a character. Stark is the out-and-out villain of the piece, a selfish, irredeemable fascist. (So is Mr Fantastic!)
Agreed

Which helps sell the point that no amount of cool action can make up for terrible characterization.

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Old 09-29-2012, 05:10 PM   #762
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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Eh, I liked his Ultimate FF run better than his regular FF run. He came up with the ingenius Marvel zombies and his skrull story was pretty cool.

Ultimate X-men was really great and the truth is his run on the Ultimates is one of the best Avengers stories of all time. His characters weren't perfect and that's the point. He was trying to say something about the times we were in while he was writing it.
And what he was trying to say is that people are inherently self-destructive, selfish, and awful. Which is 100% the wrong message to try to sell when Captain America and Thor are two of your leads.

You can say something about the world we live in while keeping your heroes at least somewhat likable and, y'know, heroic.

I like Ultimates 1&2 as an alternate reality tale, but they were completely backwards in the way they interpret the Avengers as people. The actual storyline was fun.

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Old 09-29-2012, 05:19 PM   #763
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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Agreed

Which helps sell the point that no amount of cool action can make up for terrible characterization.
I feel similarly vis-a-vis compelling artwork compensating for poor writing in comic books/graphic novels.



Well, okay, I can give Civil War a miss. Plenty of other titles in my backlog.

I guess the silver lining to consider for Millar moving to movies is that maybe some books will improve.

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Old 09-29-2012, 05:36 PM   #764
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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You know, the sad thing to think about at times is that Thor could have been the first hero with a red cape that audiences could have seen really having one kick ass super fight with a super villain in a live action film since we all know that there hasn't really been a film with a hero wearing a red cape that's been shown being in a large scale action sequence against a super villain since the early 80's.lol
.
True.Looks like Supermans going to beat Thor to it though.Hope we dont get Ripoff statements.

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Y
I mean for all that Thor can do, and I gotta agree with Big Thor on this issue as well, it's kind of frustrating that they haven't given Thor a real good "one on one" fight that has pushed him to his limits, forcing him to use all that he has at his arsenal like how the other main Avengers have had with their solo films.

I mean, Thor defeated the Destroyer very easily, and his fights with Loki an even Hulk have been less than memorable in my honest opinion, especially the fight with Loki on top of Stark Tower. Based on his fights with Loki alone, if I was a part of the general audience who had no idea on what Thor could do and that the first action scene that I saw him in was his fight scenes with Loki, especially the one from Avengers, I wouldn't think that Thor would be capable of doing things that he's known for.

With the inclusion of Kurse into this film, i really hope that we get the one on one fight sequence that Thor and his fans deserves.
I personally think the reason why MCU thor has been potrayed as less than powerful as his comic version is because he is less powerful than his comic version.Not saying hes lame or anything just nerfed down.

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Old 09-29-2012, 05:50 PM   #765
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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And what he was trying to say is that people are inherently self-destructive, selfish, and awful. Which is 100% the wrong message to try to sell when Captain America and Thor are two of your leads.

You can say something about the world we live in while keeping your heroes at least somewhat likable and, y'know, heroic.

I like Ultimates 1&2 as an alternate reality tale, but they were completely backwards in the way they interpret the Avengers as people. The actual storyline was fun.
I don't even like it as an alternate reality. It was painful to see a pretty good story just buried by awful, awful characters.

As for Civil War, I liked it right up until the ending. It's true that the storyline ruined the Tony Stark character, though. And contrary to what someone said above, CW actually made me like Steve Rogers for the first time.

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Old 09-29-2012, 05:59 PM   #766
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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True.Looks like Supermans going to beat Thor to it though.Hope we dont get Ripoff statements.
Nah Thor's fight with IM was pretty epic in scale, as matter of fact it's THE best one on one fight in the MCU.

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Old 09-29-2012, 06:01 PM   #767
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

I really enjoyed civil war. It got me into comic books actually. Also I could sorta see where tony stark was coming from with his plan to keep heroes in check. But ultimately I agreed with captain America. I prefer tony to be fighting bad guys. Not fighting other heroes

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Old 09-29-2012, 07:10 PM   #768
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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(And many others talked about Millar's work on various Ultimates properties. )

What about the Civil War story? From the plot summary I've been wanting to read it.
Civil War is an interesting idea ruined in the execution. The issue of registration was already used to memorable effect with the X-Men, so there was certainly potential there. But then Millar threw out every character's established personality and skewed them to fit the needs of his story to the point that they became unrecognizable. And, as someone else mentioned, his idea of "characterization" is basically to make everyone a giant douche. Case in point: most people side with Captain America, but Millar's actual intent was to show Iron Man as unmistakably in the right.

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Old 09-29-2012, 07:53 PM   #769
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

This new Thor flick has me excited. I'm really hoping we get to see all kinds of powerful magic and crazy fights/action sequences. As a guy who hasn't followed Thor much in the comics I'm really interested in how they can expand him and show his power in the MCU.

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Old 09-29-2012, 09:38 PM   #770
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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Nah Thor's fight with IM was pretty epic in scale, as matter of fact it's THE best one on one fight in the MCU.
Yeah, but they were talking about a fight with a super villain. IM doesn't count since he's a hero. It does seem like Superman is going to be the first to do it but TDW can still redeem Thor by including a badass Kurse fight.

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Old 09-29-2012, 11:29 PM   #771
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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(And many others talked about Millar's work on various Ultimates properties. )

What about the Civil War story? From the plot summary I've been wanting to read it.
As everyone else has pointed out, you'll wind up hating the way either Iron Man, or Cap, or both have been portrayed.

That being said, Civil War is still pretty much essential reading for the 21st century, as almost everything in the Marvel Universe (including comics, games, toons and film) comes back and references it at some point, so it's nice to know what the hell everyone is *****ing about in any given Marvel discussion.

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:02 AM   #772
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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Yeah, but they were talking about a fight with a super villain. IM doesn't count since he's a hero. It does seem like Superman is going to be the first to do it but TDW can still redeem Thor by including a badass Kurse fight.
I don't really see how that matters, an awesome fight is an awesome fight regardless of the opponent.

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Old 09-30-2012, 07:53 AM   #773
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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I don't really see how that matters, an awesome fight is an awesome fight regardless of the opponent.
For that specific conversation they were referring to a red-caped hero having an awesome fight with a super villain. Thor hasn't had any stand-out awesome fights with a super villain yet, while MoS is the next up before TDW. Chances are that MoS will have epic fights against Zod and company, and if it doesn't then TDW can still claim that title.

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Old 09-30-2012, 11:42 AM   #774
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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As everyone else has pointed out, you'll wind up hating the way either Iron Man, or Cap, or both have been portrayed.

That being said, Civil War is still pretty much essential reading for the 21st century, as almost everything in the Marvel Universe (including comics, games, toons and film) comes back and references it at some point, so it's nice to know what the hell everyone is *****ing about in any given Marvel discussion.
Eh, not really. Superheroes f*** up, Nitro blows up a small town, the government demands superheroes register their identities. Iron Man supports them, Captain America opposes, other heroes line up behind one or the other and fight it out, Iron Man's robo-clone of Thor kills Goliath, Cap ultimately surrenders because he realizes their war is doing more harm than good, Iron Man becomes head of SHIELD and institutes the Initiative to put a registered super-team in every state. Everything you need to know about Civil War in two sentences.

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Old 09-30-2012, 01:18 PM   #775
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 4

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Eh, not really. Superheroes f*** up, Nitro blows up a small town, the government demands superheroes register their identities. Iron Man supports them, Captain America opposes, other heroes line up behind one or the other and fight it out, Iron Man's robo-clone of Thor kills Goliath, Cap ultimately surrenders because he realizes their war is doing more harm than good, Iron Man becomes head of SHIELD and institutes the Initiative to put a registered super-team in every state. Everything you need to know about Civil War in two sentences.
Thanks!

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