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Old 10-16-2012, 04:10 PM   #126
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

MS is still a business.

You think they won't make Iron Man 4 even if Iron Man 3 makes over 600 m worldwide?

They aren't going to kill their golden goose to explore C-level characters.


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Old 10-16-2012, 04:13 PM   #127
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

Or the Avengers may just come out a bit later, so they can complete the stories they want to within the solo-films. And, by extension, completing each phase they want to complete before the Avengers movies

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Old 10-16-2012, 04:22 PM   #128
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

I would think that MCU Phase 3 would lead into the Civil War

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Old 10-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #129
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

I think they're building toward Ultron for Avengers 3.

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Old 10-16-2012, 04:46 PM   #130
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I think they're building toward Ultron for Avengers 3.
If Antman is a sure thing then that makes sense.

My only concern is another flat Ironman2 third act. "oh no, robot army!"

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Old 10-16-2012, 05:46 PM   #131
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post
Listen, bro, the studio can't afford more than two movies per year & they want Avengers movies every 3 years. That means we're only getting 4 movies in between ANT-MAN & Avengers 2.

You really think Feige would rather pump out three more sequels to existing characters than introduce three new characters already rumored to be in the casting process?

Also, Whedon wants another Hulk. The guy's convinced he can make a profitable Hulk movie. The likelihood of Hulk 2 taking one of those 4 Phase III slots is much greater than the studio rehashing Cap or Thor.

The other thing you're not taking into account is that because this is a shared universe the individual approach to characters is compromised. That shifts focus from completing solo trilogies to allowing new characters to join the universe.

So in summary, its either:

-BLACK PANTHER
-DOCTOR STRANGE
-THE INHUMANS
-THE INCREDIBLE HULK: PART II

Or

-IRON MAN 4
-CAPTAIN AMERICA 3
-THOR III
-GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY II
Rehashing, because that's how Marvel thinks. "We are sensitive artistes! we must do something that will give us credibility, and prevents us from looking like philistines!"

Oh wait, no I forgot. This is Marvel, a company that makes big budget blockbusters with the intention of making money. They're not going to risk FOUR potential bombs in a row, centering around 3 lesser known characters and a character that has twice failed to turn a profit at the theaters.

Short of a nuclear holocaust, we will see the completion of Captain America and Thor trilogies. Both of those movies were successful, and after the Avengers hit 1.5 Billion dollars, I wouldn't be surprised if both franchises saw huge box office boosts, especially in foreign markets, where the characters are now more famous than they ever have been.

So let's say Cap and Thor both get 50% upticks in foreign territories, and a rather modest 10% uptick domestically, based on new interest after being a part of the third largest film of all time. You don't think Marvel would do another sequel to Cap and Thor if they both broke 500 M? Hell, even if they both just matched their first movies, we'd still see threequels.


Your argument for The Hulk 2 being "much more likely" than Cap 3 or Thor 3? Is paper tiger. "Whedon wants". Whedon also wanted a smaller Avengers sequel, which lead everyone to assume we'd get Ultron, but every day we're getting more and more signs that Avengers 2 will be the Infinity Gauntlet or at the very least, Thanos with the cosmic cube, neither of which are "small, personal" stories. They're large scale, grand epics.

Ultimately it's always Feige in the driver seat. If Whedon's "I want a Hulk film" request held any weight, we would've seen the announcement for Phase II. They will do an Incredible Hulk 2 eventually, but not at the expense of proven franchises and guaranteed money.

As for Iron Man 4, and GotG 2 those are admittedly up in the air. GoTG hinges soley on the performance of the first movie, while Iron Man 4 hinges on their ability to put together a contract that both marvel Studios and Downey are satisfied with. I believe Marvel will cave to Downey, and will not shoot their golden goose.

I have no doubt we'll see all four of the movies you mentioned eventually, but they will not take place at the expense of the "Marvel Trinity".

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Old 10-16-2012, 05:51 PM   #132
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Or the Avengers may just come out a bit later, so they can complete the stories they want to within the solo-films. And, by extension, completing each phase they want to complete before the Avengers movies
I honestly see this happening. While I don't think Avengers 3 will be THE finale of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I think it will end the first era of the MCU. I think that's worth taking an extra year to build up and flesh out.

I do think any non-Avenger related film (or at least film not pertaining to some element of their planned Avenger film for coresponding phase) has less of a chance of happening. Why do an Inhumans film that's completely unrelated to Avengers 3, when you can do a Captain America or Thor film that builds up and enriches the Avengers one?

I think we'll start to see less of a tight knit structure after Phase 3, when the original casts start to leave, and then perhaps we'll see a transitional phase filled with Doctor Strange and the like, but I just don't see that taking priority over the Avengers, Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America.

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Old 10-16-2012, 05:54 PM   #133
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Rehashing, because that's how Marvel thinks. "We are sensitive artistes! we must do something that will give us credibility, and prevents us from looking like philistines!"

Oh wait, no I forgot. This is Marvel, a company that makes big budget blockbusters with the intention of making money. They're not going to risk FOUR potential bombs in a row, centering around 3 lesser known characters and a character that has twice failed to turn a profit at the theaters.

Short of a nuclear holocaust, we will see the completion of Captain America and Thor trilogies. Both of those movies were successful, and after the Avengers hit 1.5 Billion dollars, I wouldn't be surprised if both franchises saw huge box office boosts, especially in foreign markets, where the characters are now more famous than they ever have been.

So let's say Cap and Thor both get 50% upticks in foreign territories, and a rather modest 10% uptick domestically, based on new interest after being a part of the third largest film of all time. You don't think Marvel would do another sequel to Cap and Thor if they both broke 500 M? Hell, even if they both just matched their first movies, we'd still see threequels.


Your argument for The Hulk 2 being "much more likely" than Cap 3 or Thor 3? Is paper tiger. "Whedon wants". Whedon also wanted a smaller Avengers sequel, which lead everyone to assume we'd get Ultron, but every day we're getting more and more signs that Avengers 2 will be the Infinity Gauntlet or at the very least, Thanos with the cosmic cube, neither of which are "small, personal" stories. They're large scale, grand epics.

Ultimately it's always Feige in the driver seat. If Whedon's "I want a Hulk film" request held any weight, we would've seen the announcement for Phase II. They will do an Incredible Hulk 2 eventually, but not at the expense of proven franchises and guaranteed money.

As for Iron Man 4, and GotG 2 those are admittedly up in the air. GoTG hinges soley on the performance of the first movie, while Iron Man 4 hinges on their ability to put together a contract that both marvel Studios and Downey are satisfied with. I believe Marvel will cave to Downey, and will not shoot their golden goose.

I have no doubt we'll see all four of the movies you mentioned eventually, but they will not take place at the expense of the "Marvel Trinity".
The only thing I can agree with you on is that they might do IM4 if they can keep Downey from jumping ship. The sad thing is that IM4 means Inhumans or Hulk 2 get pushed back.

I stand by my earlier sentiment that Phase III will deliver BP & Doc Strange instead of Cap 3 & Thor III.

Feige's already got BP & Doc Strange in his head (they might show up prior to their solo films).

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:07 PM   #134
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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The only thing I can agree with you on is that they might do IM4 if they can keep Downey from jumping ship. The sad thing is that IM4 means Inhumans or Hulk 2 get pushed back.

I stand by my earlier sentiment that Phase III will deliver BP & Doc Strange instead of Cap 3 & Thor III.

Feige's already got BP & Doc Strange in his head (they might show up prior to their solo films).
Feige has had Doctor Strange and Black Panther in his head for years, it didn't stop them from green lighting Cap 2 and Thor 2.

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:01 PM   #135
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Feige has had Doctor Strange and Black Panther in his head for years, it didn't stop them from green lighting Cap 2 and Thor 2.
I think another thing you're not taking into account are the poor release dates given to Cap 2 & Thor II.

Despite the momentum from The Avengers, I see both sequels underperforming.

If Cap 2 & Thor II don't make $250+ Million Domestic, I can't see Disney greenlighting sequels to them.

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:14 PM   #136
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I think another thing you're not taking into account are the poor release dates given to Cap 2 & Thor II.
Cap maybe, but Thor? The holiday season is a prime spot for BO rake, and it's got two weeks before CF.

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:18 PM   #137
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

Marvel has an overall narrative in mind with these first 3 phases that are clearly(from my perspective) going to feed into each avengers movie. I don't see them diverting from that. It seems pretty obvious the trilogies for their marquee 3(IM, Thor, and CA) are going to be done culminating into Avengers 3.

Maybe we get Strange and BP in addition, but not at the expense of finishing the initial trilogies. imho

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:20 PM   #138
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I think another thing you're not taking into account are the poor release dates given to Cap 2 & Thor II.

Despite the momentum from The Avengers, I see both sequels underperforming.

If Cap 2 & Thor II don't make $250+ Million Domestic, I can't see Disney greenlighting sequels to them.
The Poor release date? What is Captain America 2 up against? Stretch Armstrong? Destined to be the biggest toy related film bomb since Battleship?

The first movie was up against Harry Potter before it, and Cowboys and Aliens (a terrible film, but still the same demographic and thus, drew away viewers) and still managed to carve out a niche for itself. The second one is up against nothing, in the same position that the Hunger Games was this year, with all the added hype of being a starring character in the biggest adapted film of all time.

I'm not too worried. Besides, the characters you mentioned aren't even guaranteed to make $250 M worldwide, much less domestic.

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:30 PM   #139
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

I think the magic number is 350 million worldwide. That's all Thor 2 and Cap 2 need to be a success considering how much Disney makes from toys, DVDs, TV rights, etc.

But Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 should exceed that number by a wide margin. And the other films should be in that vicinity thanks to a boost from the success of Avengers.

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:38 PM   #140
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Cap maybe, but Thor? The holiday season is a prime spot for BO rake, and it's got two weeks before CF.
Thor II may not even hit a hundred million Domestic before Catching Fire ravages the BO.

Marvel Studios never should have placed that film in November. They've already pushed it up 3 weeks to give it room to breathe but in the end three weeks is not enough time for it to accumulate profit before Catching Fire hits.

I'm calling it now - $200 Million Domestic BO at best.

Spielberg's ROBOPOCALYPSE will do to Cap 2 what Catching Fire will do to Thor II. It will close the book & shatter its legs.

How well can these films do with just 3 weeks of breathing room?

They're not the Iron Man films who break even in two weeks. They couldn't even hit $200 Million with IMAX, 3D & better release dates last year.

The FIFTH Fast & The Furious film did better than both of them without 3D.

Hangover 2, Bridesmaids & The Help with miniscule budgets made over four times their production cost that same summer.

I think after the numbers are in after Cap 2 & Thor II, Disney will [further] realize Cap & Thor work better as Avengers than on their own.

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:48 PM   #141
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I think the magic number is 350 million worldwide. That's all Thor 2 and Cap 2 need to be a success considering how much Disney makes from toys, DVDs, TV rights, etc.

But Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 should exceed that number by a wide margin. And the other films should be in that vicinity thanks to a boost from the success of Avengers.
They'll both clear 350M by at least 100M. This whole conversation is goofy.

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Old 10-16-2012, 10:25 PM   #142
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Thor II may not even hit a hundred million Domestic before Catching Fire ravages the BO.

Marvel Studios never should have placed that film in November. They've already pushed it up 3 weeks to give it room to breathe but in the end three weeks is not enough time for it to accumulate profit before Catching Fire hits.

I'm calling it now - $200 Million Domestic BO at best.

Spielberg's ROBOPOCALYPSE will do to Cap 2 what Catching Fire will do to Thor II. It will close the book & shatter its legs.

How well can these films do with just 3 weeks of breathing room?

They're not the Iron Man films who break even in two weeks. They couldn't even hit $200 Million with IMAX, 3D & better release dates last year.

The FIFTH Fast & The Furious film did better than both of them without 3D.

Hangover 2, Bridesmaids & The Help with miniscule budgets made over four times their production cost that same summer.

I think after the numbers are in after Cap 2 & Thor II, Disney will [further] realize Cap & Thor work better as Avengers than on their own.
Thor easily sailed past 100 million in a week, and that's with Fast Five (an established franchise coming off a fresh restart) stealing its thunder the previous week. It then goes on to make 181 million despite OST, The Hangover II, and a stacked June coming one after the other. All this despite being an introductory film for a concept that is generally a hard sell to the GA.

Thor 2 now has the advantage of being a sequel, a rub from the most successful comic book movie of all time, no established moneymaker undercutting it, more weeks to itself to work with as compared to the first film, and a history of being able to weather the storm when the leeches star popping up the following weeks.

Robopocalypse is an unknown quantity and so its ability to potentially hurt a hot property like Cap 2.

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Old 10-16-2012, 10:43 PM   #143
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Thor easily sailed past 100 million in a week, and that's with Fast Five (an established franchise coming off a fresh restart) stealing its thunder the previous week. It then goes on to make 181 million despite OST, The Hangover II, and a stacked June coming one after the other. All this despite being an introductory film for a concept that is generally a hard sell to the GA.

Thor 2 now has the advantage of being a sequel, a rub from the most successful comic book movie of all time, no established moneymaker undercutting it, more weeks to itself to work with as compared to the first film, and a history of being able to weather the storm when the leeches star popping up the following weeks.

Robopocalypse is an unknown quantity and so its ability to potentially hurt a hot property like Cap 2.

I agree with everything you said except the bit about Robopocalypse. It debuts three weeks after CA:TWS, giving the latter plenty of time to dominate the box office with a (presumably) clear field.

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Old 10-16-2012, 11:32 PM   #144
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Hell, if Ender's Game's woes continues TDW can potentially move up and take their spot, which means it'd have an entire month to itself before CF.

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Old 10-17-2012, 02:57 AM   #145
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Thor II may not even hit a hundred million Domestic before Catching Fire ravages the BO.

Marvel Studios never should have placed that film in November. They've already pushed it up 3 weeks to give it room to breathe but in the end three weeks is not enough time for it to accumulate profit before Catching Fire hits.

I'm calling it now - $200 Million Domestic BO at best.

Spielberg's ROBOPOCALYPSE will do to Cap 2 what Catching Fire will do to Thor II. It will close the book & shatter its legs.

How well can these films do with just 3 weeks of breathing room?

They're not the Iron Man films who break even in two weeks. They couldn't even hit $200 Million with IMAX, 3D & better release dates last year.

The FIFTH Fast & The Furious film did better than both of them without 3D.

Hangover 2, Bridesmaids & The Help with miniscule budgets made over four times their production cost that same summer.

I think after the numbers are in after Cap 2 & Thor II, Disney will [further] realize Cap & Thor work better as Avengers than on their own.

You do realize and that we're currently in a film era where most films do most of their business in the first two weeks?

The Hunger Games has also yet to prove it's a good performer overseas. Thor made more money than Hunger Games did overseas, and After Avengers made damn near 4 times what Hunger Games did in foreign b.o., I doubt that's going to change.


By the 3 week point, a lot of films are already at 75% of their total. Again, we're talking an era where performances are incredibly front loaded.

What would Disney make in their place? A follow up to a franchise that's yet to see the black, despite it's character's mainstream popularity (The Hulk)? A superhero team that basically serves as supporting characters in other people's comics 99% of the time in the Inhumans? A character that they're afraid to do because he's too political in Black Panther?

Cap and Thor are Marvel's best options right now.

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Old 10-17-2012, 05:09 AM   #146
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

2015: Ant-Man
2016: Iron Man 4, Black Panther, Thor 3
2017: Captain America 3, Incredible Hulk 2, Guardians of the Galaxy 2
2018: Avengers 3

I don't actually expect Marvel to go to three films a year, but the title says I can have it my way, dagnabbit!

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Old 10-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #147
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

2015: Avengers 2, Ant-Man (I still don't believe that TA2 concludes phase 2, but for the sake of it, let's say it does...)
2016: Dr. Strange, Iron Man 4
2017: Thor 3, Incredible Hulk 2
2018: Captain America 3, Black Panther
2019: Dr. Strange 2, Avengers 3

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Old 10-17-2012, 09:02 AM   #148
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

I posted this in one of the Ant-Man threads, but I guess it's more appropriate here:

Ant-Man--November 2015
Thor 3--May 2016
Captain America 3--November 2016
Ant-Man 2--May 2017
Black Panther--July 2017
The Avengers 3--May 2018

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Old 10-17-2012, 01:13 PM   #149
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

I wish people would stop quoting AB so i wouldnt have to see his nonsensical arguments. Funny how he went missing when avengers was raking in all that money.

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Old 10-17-2012, 01:28 PM   #150
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I want leader as a villain for a hulk sequel.

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