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Old 09-16-2012, 02:01 AM   #51
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

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this isn't real life. it's ok to root for the villain.

actually in some aspects it is real. breaking bad, especially the development of walter white shows us that every human being could turn in some way like him, it just needs the right/wrong circumstances that can turn us "evil/good"...that's what i really like about this show...and also the fact that "almost every action" has in some ways consequences...and will come back to you in some ways (gale's whitemen book in the end of midseason final)...these things made breaking bad for me so special, amazing...that's why i'm still on walter's side cause "i'm always thinking, what would you do in this situation..?"

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:10 AM   #52
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I don't get why people still call Walt a villain. He did what he did out of self-preservation, after Gus threatened to kill his entire family. He even used a non-lethal poison, which he probably knew wouldn't kill Brock. He crossed a line, but it's a line he HAD to cross in order to save his family. And it's the same with Gale.

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:34 AM   #53
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

Lmfao I didn't even say that I flat out root for Walt I was just pointing out how grey it all is. Walt can be all of the above and STILL BE A GOOD PERSON! People aren't just all GOOD or all BAD. Walt has always shown himself to be an extremely devoted father and husband, it's just that now he has turned into the monster he destroyed in Gus. At least in his eyes, it's like he looked death so many times in the face how does that not change you? Walt was a trampled on weakling and he got power and it drive him to do some ****ed up **** but still doesn't somehow make him less of a person or deserving or sympathy. I know if I found out my dad did some ****ed up **** like Walt has I would still love him all the same

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:35 AM   #54
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

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I don't get why people still call Walt a villain. He did what he did out of self-preservation, after Gus threatened to kill his entire family. He even used a non-lethal poison, which he probably knew wouldn't kill Brock. He crossed a line, but it's a line he HAD to cross in order to save his family. And it's the same with Gale.
well, he is a villain.

are his actions justified? in some sense, and only part of the time. but this is very much the story of walter's rise to villainy; from chemistry teacher to meth kingpin. it's very much accurate to call him a villain.

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:42 AM   #55
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

It's Walter's journey from protagonist to antagonist really. That's the one main thing about the writing of this show that is so utterly brilliant is how they have taken the main character who at first was presented like sort of a good guy and turned him into the number one antagonist of the entire series. It's breathtaking really. In the beginning everyone (for the most part) was with Walt. Now, everybody is against him

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Old 09-16-2012, 04:59 AM   #56
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

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I don't get why people still call Walt a villain. He did what he did out of self-preservation, after Gus threatened to kill his entire family. He even used a non-lethal poison, which he probably knew wouldn't kill Brock. He crossed a line, but it's a line he HAD to cross in order to save his family. And it's the same with Gale.
He's a meth kingpin who kills people. Sometimes unjustifiably like Mike or Jane. He also poisons kids. There's no possible justification for that, I'm sorry.

He's a villain. It's okay to root for a villain and that doesn't mean he can't be sympathetic. But he's a bad guy through and through. Accept it and move on.

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:12 AM   #57
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

And that'll be true the day that life becomes black and white

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:23 AM   #58
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

I guess by that logic you could make a compelling argument for half of Mexico's drug-cartel leaders being good guys. I mean, maybe they had their reasons for their murders too, y'know.

Sorry, but shades of grey is one thing. There's nothing grey about White's actions these days. Maybe early in season one you could argue he wasn't yet a villain. He certainly is one now. I'd say he became one the moment he let Jane die. And he's just gotten worse since then.

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:31 AM   #59
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

Hey man, read my post on the last page. You just said the EXACT same thing I did. Jane's death was the first time it's really set in stone that Walt is capable of some messed up **** if it serves his agenda. Jane's death was his most unnecessary necessary act.

But no by my argument you can't say that evil people like that are good guys. Just that they are human beings like everybody else

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:32 AM   #60
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

Edit: Sorry guys lol

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:36 AM   #61
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

The fact that we are all justifying whether a mass murderer is a good guy or a bad guy seems pretty funny, even though he is a fictional character lol.

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:38 AM   #62
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

Considering the fact that he is responsible (either through his own hand or through the consequences of his actions) for the deaths of about 200 people lol.

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:41 AM   #63
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

I've done the same with actual murderers in real life with friends. It's called discussion, it's what we do

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:44 AM   #64
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I know, I'm not questioning it.

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Old 09-16-2012, 07:08 AM   #65
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I've seen Jesse as being the more morally superior character since the end of season three where he was more concerned about Gus not using kids and Walt was trying to convince him he needed to think about themselves more (or something to that effect).

As bad as Walt has become, he always manages to still show glimmers of the man he used to be, which kept me hoping he could return to that maybe.

But as he got worse, each time he committed some physical act, it seemed to get easier and easier for him. He had less and less of a moral struggle with his conscience, which he had pretty much silenced by season 5. Compare his making of the pro/con list as he struggled to justify Crazy 8's murder to the ease at which he sentences 10 men to death by shanking.

And I think nothing of what he has done in season 5 can be mitigated with the moral grey area of "doing it for family" or "it was him or me". Everything he has done this season (except flash forward) has been for his selfish need to be seen as a man who can't be f%#ked with, a man who builds empires and who builds them better than Gus Fring.

Then we have the scene at the end of 508, where the kids return home. Everyone is happy and the conversations are flowing freely (well done on having the actors talk over each other to have two conversations at the same time, nice touch) and again, I started to see Walt more like his season 1 self. But knowing what he is capable of doing and the ease at which he is capable of doing it, to me it gives a more sinister bent to his seemingly innocuous demeanor and casual laughs.

One way I look at it is that, if Walt were a real person I would happily associate with him until season 3, then he becomes someone I wouldn't want to associate with.

So to those who say they still like him, do you mean that you like the character himself, in the same way you liked him in season 1, and that he is someone you'd be happy to be around in real life? Or, that you like watching the character arc but agree that he has become someone to be reviled?

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Old 09-16-2012, 08:44 AM   #66
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

Are you guys forgetting season one when he killed off the zombie in the cellar? THAT showed me he was capable of dark things. And the acid bath idea too.
He's been "wrong" the whole time we've known him pretty much. He's just evolved as the stakes have gotten higher.

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Old 09-16-2012, 12:34 PM   #67
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

Walt brought all the stuff with Gus on himself. You guys think Gus wanted to just murder his family for the sake of it? Walt caused all sorts of problems - bringing Jesse on board, killing Gale, etc.

Gus is no innocent, but the simplistic view that Walt's hand was forced is absurd. Walt has made decisions to dig himself deeper into a hole throughout the series. We had an important monologue from Jesse in season 3 where he tells Walt that he's poison for people around him, that he gets what he wants while others suffer.

Walt is a scumbag. He puts others in harm's way to protect himself. There is no gray area here.

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Old 09-16-2012, 01:15 PM   #68
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You phrase that like Walt had Gale killed for ****s n gigs. Gus was looking to kill him from the moment they started working together, it had to be done.

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Old 09-16-2012, 01:49 PM   #69
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

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You phrase that like Walt had Gale killed for ****s n gigs. Gus was looking to kill him from the moment they started working together, it had to be done.
No. Gus originally had Gale as a fail safe in case Walt died from his cancer. As Walt complicated the situation by his involvement with Jesse, Gus decided he couldn't take the risk of having Walt around any longer.

And I clearly didn't phrase it like Walt had Gale killed for fun. Walt did so to save his own skin, and Walt's life was threatened ultimately as a result of decisions and actions he had taken leading up to that point.

Mike told Walt himself, "We had a good thing going with Fring..." Walt's ego and need to be in control was the root cause of nearly all the problems they had.

Plus, there are so many interviews out there with Vince Gilligan saying that Walt is pretty much a b*****d. Oh, here's one I found in a few seconds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...interview.html

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What intrigues me about Walter White is that he is so pathologically self-deluded about his motives. Would Gilligan agree?
"You've nailed it," he said. "The script writers and I have a joke that if Walter had a superpower it would be to lie effortlessly, and the person he lies to the most is himself. He is fantastic at deluding himself. Lots of the fans of the show in America take him at his word, that he is doing everything to help his family, and up to a certain point you can believe that. But there's going to be a point, maybe, where the viewer says, 'Walt's actually full of crap'. He is really doing it for himself because he likes feeling like the boss.
LOL. Anybody else want to contend Walt's doing these things for his family and not for himself? We can talk about why Walt does this for himself (key failures in his life, underachievement, missed opportunities to strike it big, etc.). But arguing that Walt is just another flawed human being like the rest of us is fallacious. He's a very special case, a guy with specific circumstances that boiled over all his anger and turned him into a greedy, selfish monster.

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Old 09-16-2012, 06:41 PM   #70
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Yeah, anyone who thinks Walt sincerely got into the business and stayed in it for his family really haven't paid attention to the show. The first season makes it incredibly clear that Walt just wants to feed his ego, that he has a self-destructive pride that he always convinces himself he has more justified reasons.

Guy was an average guy from the beginning, not a good one. And he becomes a terrible one very clearly and very quickly. He just gets worse.

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:45 AM   #71
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:19 AM   #72
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Yeah, anyone who thinks Walt sincerely got into the business and stayed in it for his family really haven't paid attention to the show. The first season makes it incredibly clear that Walt just wants to feed his ego, that he has a self-destructive pride that he always convinces himself he has more justified reasons.

Guy was an average guy from the beginning, not a good one. And he becomes a terrible one very clearly and very quickly. He just gets worse.
Agreed. In fact, I'd argue that "Heisenberg" is Walt's true persona. He has a lot of layers. That's what makes him the most fascinating character on TV.

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Old 09-17-2012, 10:55 AM   #73
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

So out of pure boredom I decided to download Birds of Prey and I just realized that nobody ever told me Aaron Paul was in it lol. I'll probably just end up deleting it without ever watching it all but i just found it funny

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Old 09-17-2012, 11:53 AM   #74
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This would've been perfect if Walt had a pool scoop in one of his hands.

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Old 09-17-2012, 11:54 AM   #75
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Default Re: Breaking Bad - Part 4

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Yeah, anyone who thinks Walt sincerely got into the business and stayed in it for his family really haven't paid attention to the show. The first season makes it incredibly clear that Walt just wants to feed his ego, that he has a self-destructive pride that he always convinces himself he has more justified reasons.

Guy was an average guy from the beginning, not a good one. And he becomes a terrible one very clearly and very quickly. He just gets worse.
I think the Gilligan quote squashed that stupid argument, not that the entire show has been built around Walt's descent into depravity and showing us the consequences of all his negative actions.

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