The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Comic Books > Marvel Comics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #226
Manic
User title? USER TITLE?!
 
Manic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 35,466
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

I never really got that impression. It seems like as soon as Mike Carey relinquished Charles to other writers, that kinda got ignored and Scott was still acting like he wanted to punch Charles in the face.

Manic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #227
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,229
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Yeah Ill have to re-read that issue later when I get home but I thought Carey wrote somewhat of a resolution for them. I do remember Scott dismissing and basically telling Xavier to shut up when he objected to Magneto on Utopia during Fraction's run though

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 05:01 PM   #228
peejayd
An Unprofitable Servant
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

* re: Scott's attitude in AvX --- what drives him is his belief (or should we say "faith") in Cable... in X-Sanction he bluntly tells Scott that Hope is the Phoenix, Hope is the mutant messiah --- something Cap does not know anything about... that's why it's very uncharacteristic of him to just barge in to Utopia and demand for Hope without any considerations...

* and really, Cap emphasized he "respects" Scott as the leader of mutants when Scott questioned him where he was when there's mutant problems... but later, he admitted that he and the Avengers hadn't done enough to help mutants... so Cap just said he respects Scott just to "win" the argument... and in Avx #2, Scott resented that Cap went to Logan for advice instead of him, and that's a valid point really... Hope is in Scott's responsibility but Cap went to Logan, asked for his opinion, and just went to Utopia to take Hope no matter what, instead of sitting this out and collaborate a plan with Scott (some respect, huh Cap?)... and to make matters worse, Cap actually had a cloaked Helicarrier full of Avengers ready to strike anytime with a snap of his finger... so whether Scott blasted Cap first or not, the war is already inevitable (yet, Scott once again was labelled crazy and the one to strike the first blow or initiated the war)...

* again, in a nutshell, yes, Scott really did put the world's safety at risk when he planned to train Hope to control the Phoenix... but that's without considering what Cable said in X-Sanction... i don't know but if i were Scott, i would've done the exact same thing... that's the reason i understand the "triumph" which Scott felt when Beast informed him about the resurgence of new mutants after the war, and Scott is too kind to Cap and Logan by not slapping that to their faces... another "triumph" i see for Scott was, when Hope controlled the Phoenix because that's his plan from the very start...

* for someone who follows the continuity of the Marvel story arcs (which is not me), one can remember that Scott tried to put Wanda in custody for her crimes in the mutant race, the "no more mutants" in M-Day... but Cap retaliated that she is an Avenger and that they'll solve the problem by themselves, eventhough Wanda is a mutant... in contrast, over the years, the Phoenix - as powerful as it is - has always been an X-men problem, but here are Cap and his Avengers (apparently with lesser info and experience with the Phoenix) sticking their noses where it doesn't belong... well, it's not wrong to help, but to cast Cyclops' X-men out of the scenario is just plain wrong...

* still, for me, it's quite relieving that - eventhough the X-men are heavily "villainized" (esp. Cyclops and the Phoenix Four) - the outcome and solution went their (X-men's) way... Cyclops, no matter how huge destruction he did, was right all along (not that i concur with the phrase "the end justifies the means", but hey, it's there)... Hope fulfilled her destiny to possess the Phoenix and its power was used to reignite the mutant population...

* and in the said arc, Cyclops was proven to be the most sane out of the Phoenix Five, and he intends to hold his sanity until the end (which was heavily emphasized in AvX Infinite #6, where he talks to a simulacrum of Jean from moondust of his own creation)... he won't let the Phoenix change him... inside all this power, he has to preserve the man he's always been... Scott was very careful not to kill anyone esp. the Avengers which he/they can do in a whim, and that he extends that cautiousness to the Phoenix Four... it proved to be right when Scott was the last person to be finally corrupted by the Phoenix... but that's mostly because the Avengers (esp. Xavier in later issues) kept on attacking (and Xavier threatening) him/them wihout any attempt of reconciliation whatsoever...

* another injustice for Scott was that, everybody who's everybody has been blaming him for the wrongdoings of his fellow Phoenix avatars... it was Namor who attacked Wakanda; it was Magik who imprisoned several Avengers in limbo (with the assistance of Colossus); and it was Emma who went to a killing spree and forced the other X-men to worship her... but all blame goes to Scott, and maybe because of guilt, at the end, Scott chooses to accept full responsibility for everyone's actions despite the obvious corruption of the Phoenix (and that's pretty heroic and selfless action)... and yes, while Logan points out that eventhough Scott knew where it was all going and he still continued to walk with it; the thing that bothers me here is Logan's hypocrisy, treating Scott like a cold-blooded criminal and greeting him by "killed anyone lately?" why, Logan? you a saint now? Logan betrayed his own race, he betrayed Hope (when he revealed they are in the Blue Area of the Moon) and killed many people before and until now as the leader of X-Force, and yet he can get away with it...

* one thing i know is that, in a weird yet logically sane perspective, i want this attitude of Scott Summers... being an archetypal, goody-goody two shoes kinda guy is like him playing second fiddle to Cap's character, and i don't buy it anymore... people want a tough, anti-authority antihero like Wolverine, and i think we also need an antihero leader like Scott... gone are the days where he preaches "the day we lose compassion to our enemies is the day we become the enemy"... but Scott is now living with his other tagline, "the world's changed, people, the stakes are higher, the danger's greater, we have to be equal to them"... ironically, he said this line when he was still in his "boyscout" days... this Cyclops is badass and hardcore, this Cyclops embraced the "change" and his passion for the mutant race is incomparable... ODG said he admired Scott's defiance... me? i love every single bit of it... his iconic "DX sign" at the end of UX #19 spells triumph and is screaming, "***** you Cap, ***** you Logan, i was right all along!", and that, my friends, is the coolest thing i ever saw in this whole idiotic storyline branded as "Avengers vs. X-men"... thank you, Gillen...

peejayd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 05:03 PM   #229
terry78
Heads up, heathen monkeys
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 59,612
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Not bad. Of course the writers will never see it that way.

__________________
The only thing funnier than watching stupid people argue is watching smart people argue.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 08:47 PM   #230
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,190
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

You make AvX almost sound good.

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 08:52 PM   #231
terry78
Heads up, heathen monkeys
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 59,612
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

This whole story was basically Cyclops' World War Hulk.

__________________
The only thing funnier than watching stupid people argue is watching smart people argue.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 09:09 PM   #232
Ipodman
Love Tension
 
Ipodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,179
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Kinda irritates me that Iron Man is on the cover of the finale... Just me and my biased nitpicking HEH

Ipodman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #233
peejayd
An Unprofitable Servant
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
Not bad. Of course the writers will never see it that way.
* thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
You make AvX almost sound good.
* haha, i honestly don't like what they did to Scott in AvX, i mean who in their right minds wants it? but i really appreciate what Gillen did at UX#19... i was actually foreseeing that portrait of Scott in a DX pose in t-shirts everywhere, haha...

* another thing, the event is canon and it's already done, i don't want to cry over spilled milk... but eventhough it went that bad, this "antihero" attitude of Scott is gaining him new fans...

peejayd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #234
BoredGuy
Killing Time
 
BoredGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: the future past
Posts: 3,156
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Honestly, I have to say that at the beginning of AvX I would've completely agreed with the Avengers side.

Yes, in retrospect, Cyclops was right.

But the Phoenix was heading towards earth, blowing up other systems on its way
And Cyclops was all "cool, let it come, this has never turned out poorly"

Yes, in the end, he was right.
So hopefully, this is just one more step in Cyclops' hero's journey

And speaking from his view, people should be a little kinder to Cap.
He couldn't have expected how the whole "Phoenix setting things right" thing would've worked out.
They were right to be cautious.

Was everybody a hot-headed d**k? Absolutley
But nobody should be tarnished for too long by the events that have transpired.
They were all right in their own ways

__________________
MOVIE STUDIO BATTING AVERAGES:
MARVEL- .777 WB- .375 FOX- .364 SONY- .333


BoredGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 03:51 PM   #235
Specter313
Ghost of all things X
 
Specter313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 6ft. under
Posts: 34,840
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

The only way this will be good is if he rips the **** out of the whole thing:

Quote:
WWE fans have been wondering all week who CM Punk would choose to fight at the WWE’s next pay-per-view event — his old nemesis John Cena or the as-yet-undefeated (at least under his current gimmick) Ryback. But here’s something else to wonder about: Was he Team Cyclops or Team Captain America?

No doubt we’ll find out in a few short weeks, as Punk drops one of his vintage “pipe bombs” on comics fans. The WWE Champion has been tapped to write the introduction to the Avengers vs. X-Men hardcover, due in stores Nov. 7.

“I worked really hard to get to where I’m at and it’s cool to be afforded opportunities like this. To me, it’s hard work paying off and I’m having a lot of fun right now,” Punk told USA Today’s Brian Truitt.

Based on his tastes in comics — he’s a huge fan of Ed Brubaker’s run on Captain America – my guess is he was cheering for the Avengers. But his tendency to demand “respect” from his fellow WWE superstars where he thinks none exists seems to align with the sentiments of the mutants in the story. The article focuses on his comic book reading history and habits–he’s not a digital guy, saying “I need to hold it in my hands,” and he’s a fan of Larry Hama’s GI Joe, Preacher, PunisherMAX, Hickman’s Fantastic Four and Criminal.

He also teased the possibility of writing something for Marvel, noting they’d kicked around a few ideas. Earlier this year Punk and Marvel Editor-in-Chief Axel Alonso exchanged some tweets about Punk maybe writing something for them, so maybe if he survives Hell in a Cell in two weeks, he’ll get that chance.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...rdcover-intro/

__________________
Specter313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 05:04 PM   #236
terry78
Heads up, heathen monkeys
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 59,612
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

I know the opinions on WWE vary, but CM is a pretty cool dude though. I had heard before that he was a Punisher MAX fan.

__________________
The only thing funnier than watching stupid people argue is watching smart people argue.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 05:06 PM   #237
Spider-Nerd
Bring on the pressure
 
Spider-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 14,072
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

I'd pay hardcore money to see Punk yell, "NAP TIME" and then give the GTS to all the writers of AvX.

__________________
Ya Love Me, Ya Hate Me, You'll NEVER Forget Me!
Spider-Nerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 10:53 AM   #238
peejayd
An Unprofitable Servant
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredGuy View Post
And speaking from his view, people should be a little kinder to Cap.
He couldn't have expected how the whole "Phoenix setting things right" thing would've worked out.
They were right to be cautious.
* Cap/Avengers were right to be cautious, yes... but Cap initiated war against the X-men the moment he appeared in Utopia to take Hope without sitting this out with Scott... this is out of Cap's character, really, but since they made it that way, they just made Cap a real douche...
* who wouldn't be angry if someone went to your doorstep and tried to take your student/subordinate, or shall we mention, your (adopted) granddaughter, which you firmly believe is the "messiah"? that's instigating and provoking a war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredGuy View Post
Was everybody a hot-headed d**k? Absolutley
But nobody should be tarnished for too long by the events that have transpired.
They were all right in their own ways
* nobody should be... but come to think of it, dude, this event is CANON, and this event will forever be in a character's biography... Cyclops and the other Phoenix Four will always have this "tarnish" in their personal resume, thanks to this horrendous event...
* don't get me wrong, there really is no use crying over spilled milk, what's done is done... that's why i appreciate what Gillen did in UX#19 and that "Cyclops was right" schtick will always be a slap on Cap and Logan's faces...

peejayd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #239
terry78
Heads up, heathen monkeys
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 59,612
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Of course in future storylines characters will bring this up as a trump card whenever they disagree with Cyclops as a "at least I didn't" or "remember when you" thing. Wolverine more than likely.

__________________
The only thing funnier than watching stupid people argue is watching smart people argue.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 11:25 AM   #240
Manic
User title? USER TITLE?!
 
Manic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 35,466
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

I wouldn't be surprised if AvX has forever tarnished Cyclops' character the way the Dark Phoenix Saga did for Jean or Hank Pym ever since Ultron and that time he slapped Janet.

Manic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #241
moraldeficiency
Maxwell's Demon
 
moraldeficiency's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: sunny florida
Posts: 9,514
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Cyke lost any moral high ground when hope went against him and he still tried to force her to do what he wanted.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Ranger View Post
Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
moraldeficiency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 01:57 PM   #242
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,229
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if AvX has forever tarnished Cyclops' character the way the Dark Phoenix Saga did for Jean or Hank Pym ever since Ultron and that time he slapped Janet.
I really dont think DPS was a tarnish on Jean. Its heralded by most as her best story and she recovered from it well enough. I dont think it was damaging to her at all and nearly not to the level that was done with Pym

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2012, 02:33 PM   #243
Manic
User title? USER TITLE?!
 
Manic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 35,466
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

It damaged Jean in a different way. Whenever people think of Jean, they think of her dying all the time. Whenever they think of Jean as the Phoenix, they expect her to turn evil again. She can't even pop up in other media as Phoenix without her automatically being pure evil.

Manic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:47 PM   #244
Colossal Spoons
Gotterdammerung
 
Colossal Spoons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: A bar on Oa
Posts: 62,112
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

The 2 issues of Consequences have been better than the entire 12-issue event

__________________
Once you get over the need to prove everybody wrong and "correct" opinions you disagree with, the internet becomes a much more pleasant and less frustrating place.
Colossal Spoons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #245
The Batkilt
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 365
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Did anyone else find it strange that in one of the later issues the X-Men are talking to Prof X - and The Avengers, I think - and either Iceman or Angel tells Prof X that "Scott is - was - like a brother to me..." while Havok is in the background?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianakin_ View Post
Oh my God... you're one of them... the Clean Ones, the Untouched, the Innocents! Endgame is the Dark Knight compared to the Source. You have no idea. NO idea.
The Batkilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 07:18 PM   #246
Anubis
Sup?
 
Anubis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Nile Delta
Posts: 67,522
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

And?

__________________
Quote:
"Great, now I have to take over a whole planet because of your stupid boobs."
-Rick from Rick and Morty
Anubis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 07:24 PM   #247
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,229
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

yeah I dont get what the issue is

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #248
Mad Ones
Bebe le Strange
 
Mad Ones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A kingdom in that house on the hill
Posts: 1,371
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

I thought it was kinda funny lol.

Mad Ones is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #249
Shockdingo
Cap America luvin' Canuck
 
Shockdingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: With Deadpool & The unlimited
Posts: 3,520
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

I could be wrong, but isn't the issue that despite that statement and all that was happening we didn't get any moments or reaction from Havok?

Shockdingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 05:12 PM   #250
The Batkilt
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 365
Default Re: Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockdingo View Post
I could be wrong, but isn't the issue that despite that statement and all that was happening we didn't get any moments or reaction from Havok?
Yeah, that was my point. I'm aware that Cyclops would have been closer to Iceman and Angel, but it still seemed a bit odd to me. I'm not implying it's a major issue or anything - hell, I'm not even saying it is an issue as such - but if I were Havok I'd probably have spoken up with "Well, Scott is my brother, and...".

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianakin_ View Post
Oh my God... you're one of them... the Clean Ones, the Untouched, the Innocents! Endgame is the Dark Knight compared to the Source. You have no idea. NO idea.
The Batkilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.