Let's Talk Costumes?

[TheWatcher]

Those are really good man!

[RadioSha]

Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Those are really good man!

Thank you!

[az824]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

Disagree on all accounts. What you see as chubby and old, I see as muscular, mature and distinguished. One of the biggest complains with Singer's Superman Returns, Snyder's Man of Steel and the failed David E. Kelley Wonder Woman TV show from general audiences is the extent of the changes they made to the iconic costumes of Superman and Wonder Woman. Half of the classic Justice League characters appeal for general audiences, many of whom don't read comic books anymore, is nostalgia. Also, on the Avengers the costumes are actually pretty faithful to the iconic looks of the characters for the most part, especially the looks of the most widely known members to general audiences: the Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man and Thor.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. Those suits (reeves and Carter's) do look like Ross' work, but they'll feel soooo outdated and not taken seriously at all. The GA will be looking for something sleeker and with more substance. I LOVE the MoS suit, I think it looks perfect as a more serious, sleek and still faithful costume. I want the rest to be the same. And Wonder Woman is supposed to be wearing armor and gold, whereas carter wore some fake yellow stuff and it wouldn't look right anymore. We need a real armor, which is also part of the reason why the padiliki (sp?) costume looked like a pukefest. I'm thinking weta could do a great job with costumes.

[TheWatcher]

Originally Posted by RadioSha

Thank you!

No problem man!

I think they should use the Captain America material for the Batman suit.

[Sun_Down]

"I want more spandex!" said no non-fanboy ever.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

I really doubt the audience cares that much about costume changes though. Otherwise, no Batman film since the Adam West one would have been successful.

By the '80s the Adam West Batman was not faithful to the look and tone of Batman appearing in the iconic Batman comic books which were paying tribute to the characters original 1939/1940 dark roots. There was a Batmania and a comic book spectator boom happening in the '80s and dark Batman comic books such as Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (1986), Batman: The Killing Joke (1988) and Batman: A Death In the Family (1988) obtained crossover media attention into the mainstream, and as part of '80s Batmania, which began before the Burton movie, there were popular Batman t-shirts in mainstream stores with the dark, shadowy look of Batman from the iconic comics...


The dark suit and dark shadowy atmosphere of Tim Burton's Batman looked more faithful than Adam West's to the dark look and tone of Batman in the iconic comics in the '80s, lurking in the shadows, with a lot of black dominating Batman in the comics. In many ways Tim Burton's Batman was a retro project, paying tribute to both the 1939/1940 Batman of the past as well as the '80s Batman comics, particularly Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: The Killing Joke.

In fact, pretty much every costume change on film has been accepted, most recently Spider-Man.

The Spider-Man reboot is the lowest-grossing Spider-Man film behind all three of Sam Raimi's webslinger entries and the Amazing Spider-Man costume was disliked by many because of it's basketball texture, brighter blue, silver shoes, the blue on the gloves and the red lines on the thighs like garterbelt straps.
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/your-...he-reboot-yet/
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=73440
http://cinemaroll.com/fantasy/the-am...-a-basketball/
The Joel Schumacher Batman & Robin movie costumes were disliked by many because of the extreme campiness and the film flopped.
The Halle Berry Catwoman costume was disliked by many because it deviated so far from the black bodysuit of all previous Catwoman's and instead wore just a bra, intentionally ripped paints, exposed toes and the film flopped.
Superman Returns was viewed as a disappointment by Warner Brothers, with the second week gross rapidly declining from the first week, with a budget much higher than Batman Begins and grossing lower than Batman Begins did, eventually leading to the Man of Steel reboot written by the Batman Begins writer and produced by the Batman Begins director. I recall the Superman Returns costume being disliked by many because the "S" was small and the trunks were little speedo size short-shorts, the collar was tight around the neck, the red looked brown, also many people felt Routh wasn't muscular looking enough and looked too young.
http://strangetalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78168
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/...p?topic=4240.0

Green Arrow's suit in Arrow looks like a modernised version of the Longbow Hunters suit, so I don't see the problem anyway.

The costume is toned way down to the point that Marc Guggenheim's Arrow's "costume" is just a leather jacket with a hoodie. Marc Guggenheim's Arrow is a standard brunette, lacking Green Arrow's iconic blonde hair and prominent goatee, which is one of the things that's made Green Arrow so unique from the other superheroes.
Marc Guggenheim explained, "Colleen Atwood, designed the Arrow costume. And basically the note that we started out with for her was, 'we want you to start with a hood and a leather jacket, so that if this guy was walking down the street with just that, no one would be stopping and staring. And actually one of the influences that we were operating off of, that showed us proof of concept, was the posters for Mission Impossible: Ghost of Portal Call (2011). You know, Tom Cruise with the hood down, walking through the street. See, that sort of shows that you can walk with a hood on and no one really noticing. But one of the things that we've taken pains in establishing on the show is that for Oliver, this is not a costume."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=39802

As for Superman, I really don't think they've changed the suit that much. All they've done in taken away the underoos and added a piping. That is a much smaller change than Captain America's, for example.

Every iconic element of Captain America's costume is there, other than his ears sticking out. The iconic white "A" on his forehead is unaltered, the white little wings are even there, and the large eye holes. The white star on his chest, the red, white and blue stripes on his waist. The white on his sleeves, red gloves, red boots. The bright shade of red, white and blue is unaltered and the texture of the costume is faithful looking. Some extra details have been added, yet, it retains the iconic elements. And also the iconic shield is unaltered.

The same is not true of the Snyder Man of Steel suit. You posted that "All they've done in taken away the underoos and added a piping" as if that's all that has gotten done to it. That isn't true. There are many changes, removing many iconic elements of Superman's costume. The iconic cloth fabric, made from his baby blanket, is gone. Replaced with another Burton Batman-esque rubber looking muscle suit with muted color tones and a basketball texture (also used in Amazing Spider-Man) and Wonder Woman-esque silver bracelets and Power Rangers-eque stripes in the waist area and legs. Even the iconic "S" emblem is gone. Oddly replaced with the older 1940s version.

The iconic "S" on the back of the cape is gone.

The yellow belt is gone. Replaced with just a silver belt buckle without the belt.

The mentioned red trunks are gone. Superman's trunks always stood out, by the simple fact that they are red, and an iconic part of his suit since 1938. Superman looks incomplete without them. Their so iconically Superman. It's not dated, it's stood the test of time. It's not a fashion trend that goes out of style. It's timeless. It's not underwear, it's outerwear, a part of an iconic uniform that started the superhero genre.
As Alex Ross stated, "It’s not my instinct to throw out a design that has withstood the test of time for 70 years and say 'no no, now it’s this.'
The truth is, Kingdom Come was a complete and total retro project. All of the character designs I came up with were paying homage to ones from decades gone by. It wasn’t really the future so much as it was a tribute to the past.
But, when I did a lot of the other stuff, like DC’s Justice, I did so with the purpose of saying 'Here’s the classic version, the one I believe will stand the test of time.'"
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/07/...-kingdom-come/

Also, David E Kelly's Wonder Woman also featured the classic costume, yet it still failed:

That's still not the classic costume. Adrianne Palicki's costume looks like an amateurish, cheap plastic Halloween costume. That shiny Pfeiffer Catwoman look cheapens the authenticity of the look of Wonder Woman, who's costume is suppose to come from the ancient Amazons and Olympian Gods, not from Party City. The belt is way too big, too bulky. They even made the tiara plastic and tiny. They claimed that the new costume was intended to be more tasteful, modern and more comfortable. However, the costume isn't more tasteful as it's so low cut and revealing so much breast cleavage that Adrianne Palicki's having to pull it up to keep her breasts from falling out.

Plastic hardly is modern and certainly not more comfortable. The skin tight plastic costume with such a low cut buster does not allow for much freedom of movement. Plastic clothing do not allow the skin to breath and will cause overheating fast. Running around in skin-tight plastic clothes is very hot, uncomfortable, makes you sweaty fast, leading to exhaustion, dehydration. The classic Wonder Woman costume allows for much better mobility, flexibility and comfort, allowing the skin to breath while running, jumping, etc. That's the reason why athletes running track, acrobats and gymnasts wear light-weight outfits with no pants.
The actual classic costume wasn't plastic, didn't have such a low cut buster, didn't have a bulky belt, didn't have "W"'s on the belt and boots, and complemented Lynda Carter's curvaceous figure.


When we are dealing with such iconic characters as Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, it's not just the fanboys who can notice the changes and dislike. People tend to like things that are familiar and classic. I see no proof that the classic looks wouldn't work anymore.

Originally Posted by az824

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. Those suits (reeves and Carter's) do look like Ross' work, but they'll feel soooo outdated and not taken seriously at all. The GA will be looking for something sleeker and with more substance. I LOVE the MoS suit, I think it looks perfect as a more serious, sleek and still faithful costume. I want the rest to be the same. And Wonder Woman is supposed to be wearing armor and gold, whereas carter wore some fake yellow stuff and it wouldn't look right anymore. We need a real armor, which is also part of the reason why the padiliki (sp?) costume looked like a pukefest. I'm thinking weta could do a great job with costumes.

Lynda Carter's costume was comic book accurate with proper material. Wonder Woman's ordinary classic costume is not suppose to be body armor. Ever noticed that Wonder Woman has to deflect bullets with her bracelets at super speed? Wonder Woman doesn't ordinarily wear body armor.

Originally Posted by Sun_Down

"I want more spandex!" said no non-fanboy ever.

"I want all fake rubber muscle costumes for every superhero!" said no non-fanboy ever.

[TheWatcher]

Every artist draws the symbol differently.

[theMan-Bat]

The iconic "S" emblem has remained predominantly unchanged by artists over the decades since 1944.
Superman over the decades in the comics:

The iconic "S" emblem has also remained predominantly unchanged over the decades in live-action and animation.
Kirk Alyn's Superman movie serials Superman (1948) and Atom Man versus Superman (1950):

George Reeves' Superman and the Mole Men (1951) movie and Adventures of Superman (1952-1958) TV series and I Love Lucy "Lucy and Superman" (1957) TV episode:

Bob Holiday's The Daily Planet Presents The Story of Superman (1966) short educational film, It's a Bird...It's a Plane...It's Superman! (1966-1967) Broadway show, I've Got a Secret (1966) TV episode hosted by Steve Allen and an Aqua Velva commercial (1966):

Filmation's The New Adventures of Superman (1966-1967) TV series and The Superman/Aquaman Hour of Adventure (1967-1968) TV series and The Batman/Superman Hour (1968-1969) TV series:

Hanna-Barbara's Superman on the Super Friends (1973-1986) TV series:

Christopher Reeve's Superman (1978-1987):

Ruby-Spears' Superman (1988) TV series:

Dean Cain's Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman (1993-1997) TV series:

Bruce Timm's Superman: The Animated Series (1996-2000) TV series:

Etc, etc.

[Llama_Shepherd]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

By the '80s the Adam West Batman was not faithful to the look and tone of Batman appearing in the iconic Batman comic books which were paying tribute to the characters original 1939/1940 dark roots. There was a Batmania and a comic book spectator boom happening in the '80s and dark Batman comic books such as Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (1986), Batman: The Killing Joke (1988) and Batman: A Death In the Family (1988) obtained crossover media attention into the mainstream, and as part of '80s Batmania, which began before the Burton movie, there were popular Batman t-shirts in mainstream stores with the dark, shadowy look of Batman from the iconic comics...
The dark suit and dark shadowy atmosphere of Tim Burton's Batman looked more faithful than Adam West's to the dark look and tone of Batman in the iconic comics in the '80s, lurking in the shadows, with a lot of black dominating Batman in the comics. In many ways Tim Burton's Batman was a retro project, paying tribute to both the 1939/1940 Batman of the past as well as the '80s Batman comics, particularly Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: The Killing Joke.

You managed to type an awful lot here without mentioning anything of relevance. Batman may have started to go dark and the grim avenger with Denny O'Neil at the helm, not that anyone cared, because Batman was tanking. But since you brought them up, this is what Batman wore in the 70's:




And now here's Keatons:



Nowhere in the pictures preceding do I see a shiny black rubber onesy, shiny black rubber muscles, a plastic yellow belt, or a batsymbol with feet on it.

The Spider-Man reboot is the lowest-grossing Spider-Man film behind all three of Sam Raimi's webslinger entries

Yet the film was over twice as successful as Batman Begins. But I wouldn't go calling that film weak.

and the Amazing Spider-Man costume was disliked by many because of it's basketball texture, brighter blue, silver shoes, the blue on the gloves and the red lines on the thighs like garterbelt straps.
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/your-...he-reboot-yet/
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=73440
http://cinemaroll.com/fantasy/the-am...-a-basketball/

None of those people are the general audience. Also, you should read all of your articles before you post. Because the last one says how it's a good story that makes a good film, then all the comments agree with that sentiment. The general audience made that film gross three quarters of a billion dollars.

Thor was pretty faithful in Thor, he made less.
Iron Man was in both his films, he made less.
Hulk was faithful in both of his films, made less combined.

The Joel Schumacher Batman & Robin movie costumes were disliked by many because of the extreme campiness and the film flopped.

But not because of the costumes. Otherwise Batman Forever would have flopped too.

The Halle Berry Catwoman costume was disliked by many because it deviated so far from the black bodysuit of all previous Catwoman's and instead wore just a bra, intentionally ripped paints, exposed toes and the film flopped.

But it didn't flop because of the costume.

I recall the Superman Returns costume being disliked by many because the "S" was small and the trunks were little speedo size short-shorts, the collar was tight around the neck, the red looked brown, also many people felt Routh wasn't muscular looking enough and looked too young.
http://strangetalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78168
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/...p?topic=4240.0

None of those people are the general audience. The general audience would have just rather gone to see Jack Sparrow. Had Pirates not come out, we'd probably be on our third Superman film.

The costume is toned way down to the point that Marc Guggenheim's Arrow's "costume" is just a leather jacket with a hoodie. Marc Guggenheim's Arrow is a standard brunette, lacking Green Arrow's iconic blonde hair and prominent goatee, which is one of the things that's made Green Arrow so unique from the other superheroes.

I actually agree with the whole beard thing, and mask, I'd like him to have them. However, what appealed to me about Oliver Queen was that he made his equipment on the cheap, the suit would look almost homemade. That is what the new Green Arrow suit looks like.

Every iconic element of Captain America's costume is there, other than his ears sticking out. The iconic white "A" on his forehead is unaltered, the white little wings are even there, and the large eye holes. The white star on his chest, the red, white and blue stripes on his waist. The white on his sleeves, red gloves, red boots. The bright shade of red, white and blue is unaltered and the texture of the costume is faithful looking. Some extra details have been added, yet, it retains the iconic elements. And also the iconic shield is unaltered.

Gloves are different, mask is different, torso is different, trousers are different, boots are different, belt is different, sleeves are different, chest is different, in both design and texture.

In short, the entire thing from head to toe is entirely different.

The iconic cloth fabric, made from his baby blanket, is gone.

Dick Donner did that too.

Replaced with another Burton Batman-esque rubber looking muscle suit

Just like Brandon Routh, Chris Evans, Christian Bale, Tobey Maguire, etc, etc.

with muted color tones

Someone hasn't seen the Comic-Con footage.

and a basketball texture (also used in Amazing Spider-Man) and Wonder Woman-esque silver bracelets and Power Rangers-eque stripes in the waist area and legs.

Heh, comparing them to women's clothes makes your point reach home that extra bit. Oh wait, no it doesn't, it's still just piping.

Even the iconic "S" emblem is gone. Oddly replaced with the older 1940s version.

Funny, Chris Reeve didn't wear the iconic \S/ either. In fact, it's never been worn physically on screen. In any case, it's a red S in a red pentagon with a yellow negative space. Sounds like Superman to me. Oh and everyone who saw the teaser in front of The Dark Knight Rises recognised it was Superman.

The iconic "S" on the back of the cape is gone.

Cap's iconic back star was gone too, as was Hulk's purple pants. Spidey's black webbing (Raimi). Batman's blue cape.

The yellow belt is gone. Replaced with just a silver belt buckle without the belt.

The yellow belt has been replaced with a gold belt. A little too thin for my taste, but it's still a gold belt nonetheless.

The mentioned red trunks are gone. Superman's trunks always stood out, by the simple fact that they are red, and an iconic part of his suit since 1938. Superman looks incomplete without them. Their so iconically Superman. It's not dated, it's stood the test of time. It's not a fashion trend that goes out of style. It's timeless. It's not underwear, it's outerwear, a part of an iconic uniform that started the superhero genre.
As Alex Ross stated, "It’s not my instinct to throw out a design that has withstood the test of time for 70 years and say 'no no, now it’s this.'
The truth is, Kingdom Come was a complete and total retro project. All of the character designs I came up with were paying homage to ones from decades gone by. It wasn’t really the future so much as it was a tribute to the past.

You said the trunks stood the test of time. But them being changed by WB/DCE across the board is them having lost the test of time. For example: Sherlock Holmes. He is a character of Victorian England. Just like Superman is of Depression era America. However, in the recent TV series "Sherlock", we see a character who is markedly different to Conan Doyle's on the surface, but true to the core of the character, in comparison to Ritchie's, which is similar on the surface, but different underneath. I know which I would rather have.

Maybe you'll be lucky and Superman will fall into the public domain and people will make your period piece film. But until then, Superman will be a child of the times. Just like every other character.

That's still not the classic costume.

It's as classic as Cap's on screen look is.

Adrianne Palicki's costume looks like an amateurish, cheap plastic Halloween costume. That shiny Pfeiffer Catwoman look cheapens the authenticity of the look of Wonder Woman, who's costume is suppose to come from the ancient Amazons and Olympian Gods, not from Party City. The belt is way too big, too bulky. They even made the tiara plastic and tiny.

There is a process called post production in which things on screen are made to look like other things. Like Iron Man's plastic suit being made to look like metal. Or Wonder Woman's plastic suit, looking like metal.

They claimed that the new costume was intended to be more tasteful, modern and more comfortable. However, the costume isn't more tasteful as it's so low cut and revealing so much breast cleavage that Adrianne Palicki's having to pull it up to keep her breasts from falling out.

That is only as low cut as this:

Plastic hardly is modern and certainly not more comfortable. The skin tight plastic costume with such a low cut buster does not allow for much freedom of movement. Plastic clothing do not allow the skin to breath and will cause overheating fast. Running around in skin-tight plastic clothes is very hot, uncomfortable, makes you sweaty fast, leading to exhaustion, dehydration. The classic Wonder Woman costume allows for much better mobility, flexibility and comfort, allowing the skin to breath while running, jumping, etc. That's the reason why athletes running track, acrobats and gymnasts wear light-weight outfits with no pants.

Do you know what is even more uncomfortable than plastic? Rubber. Lots of rubber. In fact, wearing so much rubber from head to toe that it actually has nearly your own bodyweight on top of you. And guess what? Rubber is a heat insulator, so you're gonna get hot because your body heat can't escape.

Batman wears that. But people don't care which is why he is the most successful singular superhero property.

The actual classic costume wasn't plastic, didn't have such a low cut buster, didn't have a bulky belt, didn't have "W"'s on the belt and boots, and complemented Lynda Carter's curvaceous figure.

And yet you say Cap's suit is faithful?


When we are dealing with such iconic characters as Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, it's not just the fanboys who can notice the changes and dislike. People tend to like things that are familiar and classic. I see no proof that the classic looks wouldn't work anymore.[/QUOTE]You keep forgetting Batman. Batman is easily the second most iconic superhero behind Superman.

Oh, is it because he is the only superhero to have 2 billion dollar instalments in a film series? That he is the most successful singular superhero on screen, as well as critically acclaimed? And that instead of wearing this:


he wore this:
?

[Sun_Down]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

"I want all fake rubber muscle costumes for every superhero!" said no non-fanboy ever.

My bad. I guess Nolan's Batman movies didn't make $2.3 billion at the box office.

Oh wait, they did. And somehow people didn't boycott the movies for a lack of spandex. Weird, right?

[DaveMoral]

How can anyone harp on MOS's \S/ shield? It's the pre-Crisis Earth-2 shield.

Also, the New 52 \S/ is pretty similar too.

[cleverusername8]

Call me what you want, but I think it's better to leave Supes' cape solid colored and have the symbol on the chest only. It works out fine.

The Captain America costume material would be alright for maybe Martian Manhunter's costume (although they'll probably make it that he shapeshifts his costume anyway) but for Batman, I don't think that'd be the best. I see where people are coming from with the rubber complaints but just Cap-material would be too little IMO.

I get what you guys are saying about Wonder Woman now. I'm on board with the general consensus on that now.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Sun_Down

My bad. I guess Nolan's Batman movies didn't make $2.3 billion at the box office.

Oh wait, they did. And somehow people didn't boycott the movies for a lack of spandex. Weird, right?

I've never claimed Nolan's Batman movies weren't successful. They appeal to both a nostalgia for Burton's iconic dark Batman films with the black rubber suits, etc., and for those familiar with the comics, they also appeal to nostalgia for iconic classic comics Batman: Year One, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Knightfall, etc. I feel that the black and grey Batman look, like the iconic Batman: The Animated Series, which many people also grew up with, could be pulled off in live-action if given the chance, and that doesn't mean I want a return to Adam West's blue and grey Batman look, and also that doesn't mean I want Batman without any bullet resistant protection.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

You managed to type an awful lot here without mentioning anything of relevance.

You managed to completely ignore the relevance of what I was saying. Again, I said by the '80s the Adam West Batman was not faithful to the look and tone of Batman appearing in the iconic Batman comic books which were paying tribute to the characters original 1939/1940 dark roots. There was a Batmania and a comic book spectator boom happening in the '80s and dark Batman comic books such as Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (1986), Batman: The Killing Joke (1988) and Batman: A Death In the Family (1988) obtained crossover media attention into the mainstream, and as part of '80s Batmania, which began before the Burton movie, there were popular Batman t-shirts in mainstream stores with the dark, shadowy look of Batman from the iconic comics.
The dark suit and dark shadowy atmosphere of Tim Burton's Batman looked more faithful than Adam West's to the dark look and tone of Batman in the iconic comics in the '80s, lurking in the shadows, with a lot of black dominating Batman in the comics. In many ways Tim Burton's Batman was a retro project, paying tribute to both the 1939/1940 Batman of the past as well as the '80s Batman comics, particularly Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: The Killing Joke.

Batman may have started to go dark and the grim avenger with Denny O'Neil at the helm, not that anyone cared, because Batman was tanking. But since you brought them up, this is what Batman wore in the 70's:

Apparently you didn't read what I said. I didn't even mention Batman in the '70s. By the way, the blue on the comics was used as the refection on a black surface. Blue in the comics is a way to give black clothing and hair contrast and show detail. For example, Superman doesn't literally have blue hair.

As in real life, Keaton's Batman suit is black, for example, and it also has a refection on the black surface.

Even in the '70s Batman comics there wasn't always blue dominating the costume. The '70s is when the dark, shadowy look on Batman first returned.





That dark, shadowy look continued and gained mainstream popularity in the '80s:

Yet the film was over twice as successful as Batman Begins. But I wouldn't go calling that film weak.

I didn't call the film weak. I said the Spider-Man reboot is the lowest-grossing Spider-Man film behind all three of Sam Raimi's webslinger entries, which is simply stating a fact.

None of those people are the general audience.

How do you know that none of those people are part of the general audience?

Also, you should read all of your articles before you post. Because the last one says how it's a good story that makes a good film, then all the comments agree with that sentiment. The general audience made that film gross three quarters of a billion dollars.

I did read the articles before I posted. I didn't say the Amazing Spider-Man story was bad, or that it makes a bad film. I didn't say the film made no money.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

But not because of the costumes. Otherwise Batman Forever would have flopped too.

Batman Forever's colorful look and light comedic tone appealed to a nostalgia for the famous Adam West and Burt Ward Batman and Robin, "Holy rusted metal, Batman," etc. and provided a Batman film that was considered more family friendly for parents to take their kids to see, and also retaining the black rubber Batsuit appealed to fans of Burton's Batman films. But Batman & Robin was overly camp, considered too campy by many, and the costumes in Batman & Robin are even campier than Batman Forever, Bane and Poison Ivy in pink gorilla suits, Mr. Freeze in polar bear slippers, etc., and these things were shown in promotion pictures, and I believe those sorts of overly campy things contributed to the film flopping.

But it didn't flop because of the costume.

I believe the Halle Berry Catwoman costume was a contributing negative factor to the film flopping.

None of those people are the general audience.

How do you know that none of those people are part of the general audience?

The general audience would have just rather gone to see Jack Sparrow. Had Pirates not come out, we'd probably be on our third Superman film.

That is a failure of Superman Returns that it couldn't maintain the general audiences attention away from either The Devil Wears Prada or Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest.

I actually agree with the whole beard thing, and mask, I'd like him to have them. However, what appealed to me about Oliver Queen was that he made his equipment on the cheap, the suit would look almost homemade. That is what the new Green Arrow suit looks like.

In the comics Oliver Queen was rich when he started crime fighting before he lost his fortune and on the Arrow TV show he is rich, so lack of funds isn't an excuse for a cheap outfit and equipment. I am disappointed with the Arrow show. Should have more, the arrows should be more creative and he should have Green Arrow's iconic blonde hair at least, plus the prominent goatee.

Gloves are different, mask is different, torso is different, trousers are different, boots are different, belt is different, sleeves are different, chest is different, in both design and texture.

The iconic white "A" on his forehead is unaltered, the white little wings are even there, and the large eye holes. The white star on his chest, the red, white and blue stripes on his waist. The white on his sleeves, red gloves, red boots. The bright shade of red, white and blue is unaltered and the texture of the costume is faithful looking. Some extra details have been added, yet, it retains the iconic elements. And also the iconic shield is unaltered.

In short, the entire thing from head to toe is entirely different.

No, the entire thing isn't entirely different from head to toe.

Dick Donner did that too.

While it wasn't explained in the Donner movie that his costume came from the Kryptonian blanket, Richard Donner did include the Kryptonian blanket and the cloth costume.

Just like Brandon Routh, Chris Evans, Christian Bale, Tobey Maguire, etc, etc.

Brandon Routh's Superman suit was made of synthetic milliskin.

Chris Evans' first Captain America suit was tight form-fitting stretch fabric cloth, with a cloth cowl, leather gloves, web army belt, leather boots and a fiberglass shield.

Chris Evans' second Captain America suit was made of baggy ballistic nylon, with stenciled helmet, leather gloves, leather belt, leather boots with elastic boot stirrups and a vibranium shield.

Chris Evans' Captain America suit in Avengers is made of tight form-fitting nylon, with stenciled helmet, leather gloves, leather belt, leather boots with elastic boot stirrups and a vibranium shield.

Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man suit was made of cloth.

Someone hasn't seen the Comic-Con footage.

Someone is assuming that I haven't seen the Comic-Con teaser footage. I am not impressed with the Comic-Con teaser footage and we only see brief quick glimpses of the suit in the teaser footage.

Heh, comparing them to women's clothes makes your point reach home that extra bit. Oh wait, no it doesn't, it's still just piping.

It's unnecessary changes to an iconic suit that most agree was better before.

Funny, Chris Reeve didn't wear the iconic \S/ either. In fact, it's never been worn physically on screen.

I find it hard to believe that you really believe that. Funny, I posted many pictures showing that, in fact, it has been worn physically on the screen.

In any case, it's a red S in a red pentagon with a yellow negative space. Sounds like Superman to me.

As I said, it's the older early 1940s version of the emblem. I prefer the iconic version from 1944 onward. But to each their own.

Oh and everyone who saw the teaser in front of The Dark Knight Rises recognised it was Superman.

I never said it couldn't be recognized that it's intended to be Superman.

Cap's iconic back star was gone too, as was Hulk's purple pants. Spidey's black webbing (Raimi).

Those things are not as iconic as Superman's "S."

Batman's blue cape.

Is Keaton's Batman suit blue? It sure looks that way but that's just light refection on the black surface.

And for many artists, it's intended as just a refection.

The blue on the comics was used as the refection on a black surface. Blue in the comics is a way to give black clothing and hair contrast and show detail.

That is only as low cut as this:

No, it isn't as low cut on the sides. Take a better look.

The yellow belt has been replaced with a gold belt. A little too thin for my taste, but it's still a gold belt nonetheless.

Where is the gold belt?

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

You said the trunks stood the test of time. But them being changed by WB/DCE across the board is them having lost the test of time.

That iconic Superman costume has stood the test of time, even after the Nu52 reboot in the comics and the Man of Steel reboot film, the iconic Superman costume has still been used in animation on TV and Blu-ray, DVD (Young Justice (2011-2012), Justice League: Doom (2011), Superman vs. the Elite (2012), Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 2 (2013)), and merchandising (t-shirts, iphone case, mugs, drinking glasses, picture frames, dog tags, Justice League (2012) comics in Cheerios cereal boxs).

For example: Sherlock Holmes. He is a character of Victorian England. Just like Superman is of Depression era America. However, in the recent TV series "Sherlock", we see a character who is markedly different to Conan Doyle's on the surface, but true to the core of the character, in comparison to Ritchie's, which is similar on the surface, but different underneath. I know which I would rather have.

I would rather have a Sherlock Holmes and a Superman that is true of the characters both on the surface and underneath. Why settle for anything less?

Maybe you'll be lucky and Superman will fall into the public domain and people will make your period piece film. But until then, Superman will be a child of the times. Just like every other character.

The rubber muscled Man of Steel suit is following costumes in other films (Amazing Spider-Man and Batman). The iconic costume is an original that others followed. Using the iconic costumes does not make a Justice League film a period piece film set in the '60s or '70s or '80s or '90s.

There is a process called post production in which things on screen are made to look like other things. Like Iron Man's plastic suit being made to look like metal. Or Wonder Woman's plastic suit, looking like metal.

There is a pilot episode leaked online for the David E. Kelley show called Wonder Woman in which the plastic suit still looks like a plastic suit.

Do you know what is even more uncomfortable than plastic? Rubber. Lots of rubber. In fact, wearing so much rubber from head to toe that it actually has nearly your own bodyweight on top of you. And guess what? Rubber is a heat insulator, so you're gonna get hot because your body heat can't escape.

Batman wears that. But people don't care which is why he is the most successful singular superhero property.

The black rubber Batsuits in Nolan's Batman films appeals to nostalgia that goes back to Burton's Batman films.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

And yet you say Cap's suit is faithful?

I said every iconic element of Captain America's costume is there, other than his ears sticking out. The iconic white "A" on his forehead is unaltered, the white little wings are even there, and the large eye holes. The white star on his chest, the red, white and blue stripes on his waist. The white on his sleeves, red gloves, red boots. The bright shade of red, white and blue is unaltered and the texture of the costume is faithful looking. Some extra details have been added, yet, it retains the iconic elements. And also the iconic shield is unaltered.

You keep forgetting Batman. Batman is easily the second most iconic superhero behind Superman.

Oh, is it because he is the only superhero to have 2 billion dollar instalments in a film series? That he is the most successful singular superhero on screen, as well as critically acclaimed?

No, actually, I did include Batman quite a bit in my previous post.

And that instead of wearing this:

Thank god he didn't wear a blue suit, since the blue on the comics was used as the refection on a black surface. Wasn't meant to be interpreted literally as blue. Blue does not have the effect Bruce Wayne was attempting to accomplish.

"Black, terrible.." Not "blue, beautiful.." Blue is not a bat color. Blue was used in comics as the light refection on a black surface. There were times when little or no blue was shown on Batman's costume at all even in the earliest comics.

[az824]

You need to take a closer look at the MoS costume. It's not just rubber, it's chain mail like in medieval times. Representing a neo-medieval knight type warrior costume that is reminiscent of krypton, his original home.



The public is a little tired of superman and he needed a reinvention and a way to make him look more powerful and modern. A cloth costume would be lame in the eyes of a new generation. I am 100% sure that a cloth costume would be received very negatively by this new generation of viewers who are not as familiar with superman.

[TheWatcher]

Though the classic design will always be my favorite, I think the MOS suit is a beauty.

[7heBoss]

Jeezus, theMan-Bat just loves to talk. Longest post ever? I have to side with the others. The Cap costume is FAR more altered than the Superman Returns costume, but it doesn't even matter because a costume doesn't make the movie.

Also, if you had to pick which movie was better, The Amazing Spider-Man or Spider-Man 3, which would you choose? Would you pick 3 because the costume was more faithful? would you pick 3 because it did better in the box office?

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by az824

You need to take a closer look at the MoS costume. It's not just rubber, it's chain mail like in medieval times. Representing a neo-medieval knight type warrior costume that is reminiscent of krypton, his original home.

The public is a little tired of superman and he needed a reinvention and a way to make him look more powerful and modern. A cloth costume would be lame in the eyes of a new generation. I am 100% sure that a cloth costume would be received very negatively by this new generation of viewers who are not as familiar with superman.

I know that the Man of Steel suit in the context of the film is suppose to be Kryptonian body armor, not just a rubber suit. I don't agree with that opinion that Superman needs that. Spider-Man's costume was cloth, Captain America's costumes were cloth, and not received very negatively in the eyes of a new generation.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by 7heBoss

Jeezus, theMan-Bat just loves to talk. Longest post ever? I have to side with the others. The Cap costume is FAR more altered than the Superman Returns costume, but it doesn't even matter because a costume doesn't make the movie.

The first Captain America costume is extremely faithful to the comics.

The second Captain America costume is more altered.

The third Captain America costume is closer to the comics than the second costume, although not as faithful as the first costume.

Also, if you had to pick which movie was better, The Amazing Spider-Man or Spider-Man 3, which would you choose? Would you pick 3 because the costume was more faithful? would you pick 3 because it did better in the box office?

I would pick Spider-Man 3 because I enjoy it more.

[Murdough]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

The first Captain America costume is extremely faithful to the comics.

The second Captain America costume is more altered.

The third Captain America costume is closer to the comics than the second costume, although not as faithful as the first costume.




I would pick Spider-Man 3 because I enjoy it more.

The reason why the first costume was an exact translation from the comics was because it was a USO costume. It was meant to be showy, impractical, and subject to ridicule. Steve clearly felt like an idiot wearing it, though he did come to recognize the symbolism it carried, hence elements of the suit's design being incorporated into his more practical uniforms.

With the exception of Reeve, direct translations (ie spandex) of comic book costumes tend to look pretty ridiculous on screen. It's hard for the general Joe Popcorn audience to take a movie seriously when the hero's running around in flashy tights. In addition, comics and films are two distinct mediums, and what works in comics won't always work in film.

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

I know that the Man of Steel suit in the context of the film is suppose to be Kryptonian body armor, not just a rubber suit. I don't agree with that opinion that Superman needs that. Spider-Man's costume was cloth, Captain America's costumes were cloth, and not received very negatively in the eyes of a new generation.

I don't think we'll ever see the trunks come back in any medium for quite some time. I think when the SR costume got the flack that it did, considering it was more or less the classic design, that was the final nail in the coffin for the trunks.

If I was WB and knew the design would be nitpicked to death regardless, at least I would make an effort to appeal to a broader audience by removing the trunks, which is what they did.

[Spider‐Man]

Originally Posted by az824

I always thought Alex Ross' heroes looked chubby and old, which made them less superheroish. Idk, I think going the Ross route would be an epic fail for reasons sun–down gave. Reeves and carter were more than thirty years ago, nobody would buy those costumes anymore, they'd be ridiculed like crazy, especially after the glossy cool avenger costumes.

Ross actually draws Wonder Woman to be so unattractive! Ugh!