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Old 10-09-2012, 08:18 AM   #1
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Default What if Justice League bombs?

I'm not being a pro Marvel/ anti DC guy at the moment.

I'm serious. At least going into The Avengers, studio could project a stream of success from all the solo films. Each one doing good to great business, so you have an idea where you might land with The Avengers at worse.

But with Justice League, they say it has no connection to Nolan's Batman and by the time it comes out there will only be one film its connected to and its Man of Steel. I doubt they are treating JL as a direct sequel to Man of Steel, so you can judge one from the other.

If JL bombs, how does that set back everything at DC/WB? We have seen WB take considerably long time developing projects and really not having the success rate they would want with titles not named Batman. If JL pulls in big box office and mediocre/ok reviews, WB probably wont mind, but if they put up Green Lantern figures, it will be a disappointment and how does that hurt the business of live action adaptations?

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

I think if JL flops, then I think, if DC is planning to spin off solo films from it then those are all f***ed. And then it'll just take a lot longer to get any more non Batman/Superman solo films out.


That being said though, I dont think JL will flop commercially. It could end up not being that good, but the fact that it has superheroes teaming up. Namely Batman and Superman I think will make it guranteed money

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

if terrible superman returns can make 200 million domestically i highly doubt this bombs lol

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Old 10-09-2012, 09:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

It could under-perform, WB will have to keep the production budget strictly under control, that is one of the reasons why Marvel Studios have been successful, they always keep the budget under control, anything more than 200 mil will be a risk.

Plus, WB should not make it too dark, If you look at Green Lantern, one of the reason why it did not do well was its ugly- scary looking villains (Hector Hammond, Parallax) that drove the younger audience away, WB will need those younger demographic to achieve the kind of success Avengers had.

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Old 10-09-2012, 09:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

^WHAT LOL

green lantern was extremely light hearted if anything it was too light

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

In tone, but he means villains had a more dark persona to them.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

Hal's Father dying in a plane crash, not just dying but getting burned alive in a fighter plane crash in front of young Hal.

Hector Hammond burning his father inside a lab.

Hector Hammond's creepy transformation into The most disturbing looking villain ever in a cbm screen.

Ugly looking Parallax sucking life and turning the humans into dried up corpses.

I would not call Green Lantern light hearted at all. I would call Thor as light hearted.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

Green Lantern had scary villains? TDK & TDKR featured The Joker and Bane, and both installments still brought in the younger demographic.

Justice League should not be light-hearted as The Avengers.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Originally Posted by Blackman View Post
I think if JL flops, then I think, if DC is planning to spin off solo films from it then those are all f***ed. And then it'll just take a lot longer to get any more non Batman/Superman solo films out.


That being said though, I dont think JL will flop commercially. It could end up not being that good, but the fact that it has superheroes teaming up. Namely Batman and Superman I think will make it guranteed money
This basically.

JL could turn out like Batman and Robin and get the critical kicking Green Lantern did but it will probably make money.

If WB sees that as a good enough sign to make sequels or spin off movies though is another matter.

Ideally WB wants want Avengers got which is make a ton load of cash and be well recieved by fans and critics.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

I think the problem with Hector Hammond isn't so much that he was too dark, but the fact that he was REPULSIVE. Villains like the Joker, Bane and the Scarecrow are somewhat scary and creepy, but they're cool and fun to watch. Hector was just f***ing gross. Saarsgard played him fine, but the entire time he was onscreen, you just wanted him to go the hell away.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

Yay another thread about the problems with GL

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

If it bombs it there won't be a sequel. Batman and Superman will be the main franchises and eventually WB will try other DC properties again.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Yay another thread about the problems with GL
It's not all GL you can focus upon, its not like TDKR was a 100% problem free film that JL can't learn upon. TDKR stretched the film thin with characters and sub plots and plot wholes (not to mention time length).

That is the biggest problem i have with going anti-Marvel with JL. Say whatever you want, but the idea of paving a yellow brick road to The Avengers with solo films is a smart move, because when we get to The Avengers, we dont have to spend chunk of time explaining who Iron Man, Cap, Thor, or Hulk are. its been done.

Sure everyone knows who Superman and Batman are, maybe Wonder Woman to an extent (for this generation at least), but Flash? Aquaman? Martian Manhunter? Cyborg? Green Arrow? Whoever the hell else they would put in there, needs time to develop, plus the villain, plus the reasoning of putting the team together.

JL runs the risk of stretch the film time they have very thin.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I think the problem with Hector Hammond isn't so much that he was too dark, but the fact that he was REPULSIVE. Villains like the Joker, Bane and the Scarecrow are somewhat scary and creepy, but they're cool and fun to watch. Hector was just f***ing gross. Saarsgard played him fine, but the entire time he was onscreen, you just wanted him to go the hell away.
This.

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That is the biggest problem i have with going anti-Marvel with JL. Say whatever you want, but the idea of paving a yellow brick road to The Avengers with solo films is a smart move, because when we get to The Avengers, we dont have to spend chunk of time explaining who Iron Man, Cap, Thor, or Hulk are. its been done.

Sure everyone knows who Superman and Batman are, maybe Wonder Woman to an extent (for this generation at least), but Flash? Aquaman? Martian Manhunter? Cyborg? Green Arrow? Whoever the hell else they would put in there, needs time to develop, plus the villain, plus the reasoning of putting the team together.

JL runs the risk of stretch the film time they have very thin.
Agreed. For Avengers, most of the Heroes and the Villain Loki was already established, the SHIELD and its function was explained in the earlier movies, basically Avengers was all about the spectacle of heroes smashing the Chituari in NY.


Adding the villains, multiple heroes will take time, explaining them and the main plot will also take time leaving little time for the main plot.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Green Lantern had scary villains? TDK & TDKR featured The Joker and Bane, and both installments still brought in the younger demographic.

Justice League should not be light-hearted as The Avengers.
Hector and Parallax looked more scary than Bane and Joker. (IMO.)

I am not saying that JL should be lighter and like Avengers but it certainly should not be as dark as TDK, TDKR, Watchmen it should have a tone similar to IM and TASM.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

Batman and Superman are the key components here. Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter will be 'secondary' to those two. That's a fact. Justice League will be used as a jumping platform to introduce these characters. So, solo films aren't necessarily needed to build up Justice League. Man of Steel and the Batman Relaunch will likely serve as the starting point.

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Old 10-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Hector and Parallax looked more scary than Bane and Joker. (IMO.)
They did, but parents weren't protesting Green Lantern's villains. Bane and The Joker were blamed for anarchy, terrorism, and murder because of their 'dark' nature.

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I am not saying that JL should be lighter and like Avengers but it certainly should not be as dark as TDK, TDKR, Watchmen it should have a tone similar to IM and TASM.
I'd go with Star Trek, for me.

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Nolan: "I've gotta pee. It's a two pee movie. I need to make a shorter movie next time."
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins View Post
Hal's Father dying in a plane crash, not just dying but getting burned alive in a fighter plane crash in front of young Hal.

Hector Hammond burning his father inside a lab.

Hector Hammond's creepy transformation into The most disturbing looking villain ever in a cbm screen.

Ugly looking Parallax sucking life and turning the humans into dried up corpses.

I would not call Green Lantern light hearted at all. I would call Thor as light hearted.
I dont see how that stuff in the movie was creepy or dark. It was rather funny in a really stupid way for me. It was cheesy, not dark.

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Old 10-09-2012, 02:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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I'd go with Star Trek, for me.
Star Trek would be a good model to follow. Superman could essentially be the "Spock" character (the by-the-book hero) with Batman as the "Kirk" (the loose cannon who ultimately proves to be essential to the team. Star Trek (and The Avengers, for that matter) also proved that in a big "team" movie like this, you can get away with a somewhat mediocre villain plot as long as the chemistry between the heroes is good and they are all interesting characters.

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Old 10-09-2012, 02:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

Star Trek was a little too light for my taste. I like the Justice League because they can deal with mature themes, as well as spectacle. I'd also like to see a fairly grounded world. The kind that was established in The Dark Knight Trilogy, X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, Man of Steel and to a lesser extent Superman Returns.

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Old 10-09-2012, 03:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Star Trek would be a good model to follow. Superman could essentially be the "Spock" character (the by-the-book hero) with Batman as the "Kirk" (the loose cannon who ultimately proves to be essential to the team. Star Trek (and The Avengers, for that matter) also proved that in a big "team" movie like this, you can get away with a somewhat mediocre villain plot as long as the chemistry between the heroes is good and they are all interesting characters.
Agreed.

It's surprising. What's the saying? "The hero(es) is only as good as the villain." Yet, both Star Trek and The Avengers pulled it off. Of course though, the strong characterizations, acting, visuals and action sequences pretty much helped eclipse the flaws when arriving to the villains' arcs -- Loki and Nero undeniably suffered from subpar/mediocre writing.

The overall story for The Avengers was a tad shallow as well.

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Star Trek was a little too light for my taste. I like the Justice League because they can deal with mature themes, as well as spectacle. I'd also like to see a fairly grounded world. The kind that was established in The Dark Knight Trilogy, X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, Man of Steel and to a lesser extent Superman Returns.
I believe WB is gonna take the grounded route for Justice League (and I'm esctatic about that), but the usage of the Star Trek model/template doesn't mean Justice League will be just as 'light' and 'fun'. Assuming WB will carry over the angle and tone from Man of Steel, our heroes will in more compromising positions than Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Captain America, etc were in The Avengers.

The League will be disliked/hated, feared, slandered, criticized and distrusted at the beginning.

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Law is an instrument of commerce and often an obstruction to justice. It is a Court of Law, NOT of Justice.

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Quote:
Oldman: "Wow, this is it."


Nolan: [facetiously] "Yeah. [pause] Unless you want to whore your ass out for a load of money for ‘Batman 4."
Quote:
Nolan: "I've gotta pee. It's a two pee movie. I need to make a shorter movie next time."
Quote:

Nolan: "Oh, it's on. Here Emma, hold my vest."
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Agreed.

It's surprising. What's the saying? "The hero(es) is only as good as the villain." Yet, both Star Trek and The Avengers pulled it off. Of course though, the strong characterizations, acting, visuals and action sequences pretty much helped eclipse the flaws when arriving to the villains' arcs -- Loki and Nero undeniably suffered from subpar/mediocre writing.

The overall story for The Avengers was a tad shallow as well.
Yeah, Nero's plan didn't really make any sense when you thought about it... I mean, you go back in time and have the opportunity to possibly keep your planet from getting wiped out... but instead, you decide, "Screw that, let's just kill millions of people." But I guess it worked if you think of Nero as just a crazy bastard out of his mind who is in despair because even if he did save his planet, the life he knows himself his still gone. I really wish they would have had the balls to have Spock actually BE the one to (accidentally) destroy Romulus, instead of just being "too late" or whatever. That would have had more impact and Nero's hatred of Spock would have made a little more sense.

As for Loki, I really loved him as villain in The Avengers (in some ways, even more than when he was in Thor) but yeah, his plot wasn't anything special... just your typical alien invasion-type thing.

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Old 10-09-2012, 06:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

A perhaps-overlooked consequence of JLA failing, even relatively: WB will likely rework its plans for rebooting Batman. Which is particularly bad if you are hoping for a more fantastic Batman take; I expect a poor performing JLA will lead to a regression towards the Nolan model.

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Old 10-09-2012, 06:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins View Post
Hector Hammond burning his father inside a lab.

Hector Hammond's creepy transformation into The most hilarious looking villain ever in a cbm screen.

Ugly looking Parallax sucking life and turning the humans into dried up corpses.
All of these scenes were funny to me

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Old 10-14-2012, 05:20 AM   #25
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Default Re: What if Justice League bombs?

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Batman and Superman are the key components here. Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter will be 'secondary' to those two. That's a fact. Justice League will be used as a jumping platform to introduce these characters. So, solo films aren't necessarily needed to build up Justice League. Man of Steel and the Batman Relaunch will likely serve as the starting point.
Well, it's easy to say that aside from Superman and Batman, the rest of JL are secondary characters and thus don't need any attention in the movie. But this movie needs to sell to the non-fans as well as hardcore DC fanboys, and if they go that route it is likely that GA will not handle all these new superheroes they've never heard of just suddenly popping up and stay in the background. Avengers already developed a majority of their heroes via their own solo movies, that's why it worked for them. I'm not sure if WB's approach would yield similar result by just focusing on their two powerhouses and treat the rest as ornaments.

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