What if Justice League bombs?

[Kiltak]

I don't like what WB is doing with JLA. I think it's way to soon for a JLA. I would like to see them build towards a JLA movie like Marvel/Disney did with Avengers. I think if they do JLA movie that it will be lost on non comic book fans and will end in epic failure.

I think that with out the build up and them establishing back stories on a lot of the JLA members that people may not know so well could hurt a JLA film.

The very fact that they are going to go through with it long before they do another Batman film will also hurt the film. People may not accept a new actor as Batman in a JLA film. I think it is important they do a Batman film before they do a JLA movie. This way public has a chance to see a new actor step in and establish the role.

This brings us to Superman: Man of Steel. I have high hopes for this one. However it could bomb in which case you can kiss any chance of a JLA movie doing well at all. It's entirely possible also that Superman can be really good and still bomb. While it's been several years sense Superman Returns the movie still lingers in back of peoples minds. So the public might not be ready to see another Superman movie.

I think at the end of the day they are rushing through with JLA and that if they continue on this path that it will not be very good. However will have to wait and see maybe they will surprise use all.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by JerseyJoker

I'm not being a pro Marvel/ anti DC guy at the moment.

I'm serious. At least going into The Avengers, studio could project a stream of success from all the solo films. Each one doing good to great business, so you have an idea where you might land with The Avengers at worse.

But with Justice League, they say it has no connection to Nolan's Batman and by the time it comes out there will only be one film its connected to and its Man of Steel. I doubt they are treating JL as a direct sequel to Man of Steel, so you can judge one from the other.

If JL bombs, how does that set back everything at DC/WB? We have seen WB take considerably long time developing projects and really not having the success rate they would want with titles not named Batman. If JL pulls in big box office and mediocre/ok reviews, WB probably wont mind, but if they put up Green Lantern figures, it will be a disappointment and how does that hurt the business of live action adaptations?

I think we should be more worried about a good "Man of Steel" film right now. If that film doesn't do well, I doubt we will be talking about Justice League anymore until after the next Batman film. That would be the next window to try again.

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Exactly. Warner Bros has been going "Oh Mer Gurd! Harry Potter money!" for the last 10 years. And now they have Hobbit money.

After next year, they'll be SOL... especially if MOS doesn't light up the box office this summer. They need to think ahead for 2015... especially since they don't have release dates staked out (unlike their competition). And they only have several movies scheduled for 2014 right now.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Kiltak

I don't like what WB is doing with JLA. I think it's way to soon for a JLA. I would like to see them build towards a JLA movie like Marvel/Disney did with Avengers. I think if they do JLA movie that it will be lost on non comic book fans and will end in epic failure.

I think that with out the build up and them establishing back stories on a lot of the JLA members that people may not know so well could hurt a JLA film.

The very fact that they are going to go through with it long before they do another Batman film will also hurt the film. People may not accept a new actor as Batman in a JLA film. I think it is important they do a Batman film before they do a JLA movie. This way public has a chance to see a new actor step in and establish the role.

This brings us to Superman: Man of Steel. I have high hopes for this one. However it could bomb in which case you can kiss any chance of a JLA movie doing well at all. It's entirely possible also that Superman can be really good and still bomb. While it's been several years sense Superman Returns the movie still lingers in back of peoples minds. So the public might not be ready to see another Superman movie.

I think at the end of the day they are rushing through with JLA and that if they continue on this path that it will not be very good. However will have to wait and see maybe they will surprise use all.

I keep saying this but nobody wants to listen. Sure, Marvel was able to do it with its line-up of charcters (Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America) but it was very risky. You are not going to get that same success every time following that formula. Sure, we have the Batman and Superman franchises that will draw an audience almost every film, but unknowns like Flash and Wonder Woman, carry a big question-mark (we have already seen what happened to Green Lantern). Do you really want to spend $750 million ($250 million for 2 films each) in order to put on a Justice League film or would you rather spend $250 million and take a very recognizable franchise with the support of two characters from two very successful franchises and make a film? If I were an investor, after seeing what has transpired over the last 10 years with DC films, I would want to put my money on one Justice League film (on a $250 million budget). If the film bombs, I won't be out of pocket for $500 million. If it succeeds, there is the chance for spin-offs (Wonder Woman, Flash, et. al.). This is not rushed, but in fact this has been very calculated. Since 1997, the Justice League franchise has received lots of exposure (via television and comic books) to a number of fans. A lot of these fans already know the characters and are now old enough to go see them on the big screen. Since the success of the Marvel's Avengers, it's no better time to start working towards a project like this (remember, 5 years ago, this was in development before). I find it hard to fathom that with another 3 years of development and another tow years before release that this is being rushed.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by mclay18

After next year, they'll be SOL... especially if MOS doesn't light up the box office this summer. They need to think ahead for 2015... especially since they don't have release dates staked out (unlike their competition). And they only have several movies scheduled for 2014 right now.

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

My point was that the reason we don't have a JLA movie now or haven't had one, is because there was always something that WB considered a better bet. Harry Potter, the Nolan Bat Trilogy, and The Hobbit.

The fact that JLA is coming out right after The Hobbit ends proves my point, rather than diminishes it.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by dnno1

I keep saying this but nobody wants to listen. Sure, Marvel was able to do it with its line-up of charcters (Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America) but it was very risky. You are not going to get that same success every time following that formula. Sure, we have the Batman and Superman franchises that will draw an audience almost every film, but unknowns like Flash and Wonder Woman, carry a big question-mark (we have already seen what happened to Green Lantern). Do you really want to spend $750 million ($250 million for 2 films each) in order to put on a Justice League film or would you rather spend $250 million and take a very recognizable franchise with the support of two characters from two very successful franchises and make a film? If I were an investor, after seeing what has transpired over the last 10 years with DC films, I would want to put my money on one Justice League film (on a $250 million budget). If the film bombs, I won't be out of pocket for $500 million. If it succeeds, there is the chance for spin-offs (Wonder Woman, Flash, et. al.). This is not rushed, but in fact this has been very calculated. Since 1997, the Justice League franchise has received lots of exposure (via television and comic books) to a number of fans. A lot of these fans already know the characters and are now old enough to go see them on the big screen. Since the success of the Marvel's Avengers, it's no better time to start working towards a project like this (remember, 5 years ago, this was in development before). I find it hard to fathom that with another 3 years of development and another tow years before release that this is being rushed.

As much as I think the film can benefit from a solo build up, it was unrealistic post-Green Lantern. It's natural for WB to be skeptical of the chances of Flash and Wonder Woman after Green Lantern bombed. The JLA film gives these characters Superman and Batman as a security blanket.

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by Kiltak

This brings us to Superman: Man of Steel. I have high hopes for this one. However it could bomb in which case you can kiss any chance of a JLA movie doing well at all. It's entirely possible also that Superman can be really good and still bomb. While it's been several years sense Superman Returns the movie still lingers in back of peoples minds. So the public might not be ready to see another Superman movie.

I think WB is set on doing JL after MOS, no matter how successful the movie is. If MOS does well, I can see WB putting both a JL and MOS sequel on the fast-track... maybe have them open a year apart from one another.

Or if MOS does okay, WB will probably hedge their bets on JL and see if that renews interest in a MOS franchise.

[the last son]

Man Of Steel is not going to bomb. No way no how. Well depends on what bombing is. I think it does way better than begins lets put it that way

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by the last son

Man Of Steel is not going to bomb. No way no how. Well depends on what bombing is. I think it does way better than begins lets put it that way

I think MOS will do just fine, but you never know. WB just seems dead set to do JL after MOS, no matter how much money it makes.

If it does Star Trek '09 sized business domestically, I can see WB making both JL and MOS 2 a big priority. Perhaps schedule JL for July 2015 and MOS 2 for July 2016?

[LibidoLoca]

Shailene will be Mary Jane-- Oh wait... That's already happening. Then I guess Aunt May will become Aunt Carnage.

[ThePowerCosmic]

If JL bombs, Aunt May will turn into Aunt Carnage?

LOL

[LibidoLoca]

Yes, camel toe and all.

[N7 Joseph Shepard]

Originally Posted by LibidoLoca

Yes, camel toe and all.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

As much as I think the film can benefit from a solo build up, it was unrealistic post-Green Lantern. It's natural for WB to be skeptical of the chances of Flash and Wonder Woman after Green Lantern bombed. The JLA film gives these characters Superman and Batman as a security blanket.

Yes, Superman and Batman have always given the franchise cover. That's why they need to leverage the popularity of these characters in this film, but Focus on a successful Superman reboot first.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

As much as I think the film can benefit from a solo build up, it was unrealistic post-Green Lantern. It's natural for WB to be skeptical of the chances of Flash and Wonder Woman after Green Lantern bombed. The JLA film gives these characters Superman and Batman as a security blanket.

Having recently read a book on the inner workings of a major studio essentially when something fails no-one wants to talk about it and there's every attempt to avoid doing challenging things.

[Longshot777]

It will not bomb

But it will not reach expectations either.

Avengers beat them to the punch.....any other all star super team that will come after will be considered second rate or wannabe avengers to the non comic public.

WB messed up....they have to wait 20 years for a super team which is not Avengers to be relevant again.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by Longshot777

It will not bomb

But it will not reach expectations either.

Avengers beat them to the punch.....any other all star super team that will come after will be considered second rate or wannabe avengers to the non comic public.

WB messed up....they have to wait 20 years for a super team which is not Avengers to be relevant again.

The general public can like more than one thing. They're not going to look down on a movie with more than one superhero just because they saw another movie with more than one superhero. They dislike things because they think they're bad, not because it's kind of like another thing they like.

[DChero]

Is it me or a lot of people assuming that making a better team-up movie than the Avengers isn't possible?

I think that it certainly is. Imagine if we had something as good as the Dark Knight with an equally great Superman story implemented. This would set the bar in my book.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by DChero

Is it me or a lot of people assuming that making a better team-up movie than the Avengers isn't possible?

I think that it certainly is. Imagine if we had something as good as the Dark Knight with an equally great Superman story implemented. This would set the bar in my book.

I think the most difficult thing is getting the right cast together and getting all the attitudes to gel.

[DChero]

Originally Posted by dnno1

I think the most difficult thing is getting the right cast together and getting all the attitudes to gel.

That's a huge element. I agree. A good story is another defining factor. I just get the feeling that a lot of people feel that movies like these take 5-10 years to make. In reality, a good script can be drafted in 3 months. The casting can be done even quicker than that. Principle photography can be done in under 6 months and post-production/VFX can be done within 6-9 months (the biggest variable in my mind). How much of a rush does it really take for a summer of 2015 release?

I get the argument of needed the right build-up/momentum. That's not something that we really know about since we don't know if it'll only be MoS as a launching point at that time. We also haven't seen a massive team-up like this without going the Avengers route. I wouldn't say that X-men or Watchmen had this much to live up to. This is the part that is the most debatable to me.

[Shikamaru]

At this point, I don't see how they can make a great JL movie by 2015. They want the release date to be 2015 yet they don't even have a script, director, or cast yet.

I have lost all hope for this movie.

[Tony Stark]

Originally Posted by the last son

Man Of Steel is not going to bomb. No way no how. Well depends on what bombing is. I think it does way better than begins lets put it that way

Define "way better than begins". I think right now it's going to suffer the mid June curse. The problem with that mid June release is there's way to much competition surrounding the film for it to have decent legs.

Only 3 films have opened above 90M for June and they were all sequels. The next 3 biggest openings for June were all Pixar films.

That means the highest opening for a non-sequel, non Animated film, was Ang Lee's Hulk. Yep that's right.

Right now, I'd say you're looking at a mid 50's opening, with the hope of being in the 60's. If it opens over 70, then the film is a hit, and to get that I think it has to have all 4 and 5 star reviews.

Again it's really shocking to see WB bury this film in June, considering how badly Green Lantern and Superman Returns performed, and what success they've had from that final July weekend. Especially considering the budget is rumored at $225 million.

IMO WB is setting themselves up for failure, especially considering how poor the marketing is for this movie.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Tony Stark

Define "way better than begins". I think right now it's going to suffer the mid June curse. The problem with that mid June release is there's way to much competition surrounding the film for it to have decent legs.

Only 3 films have opened above 90M for June and they were all sequels. The next 3 biggest openings for June were all Pixar films.

That means the highest opening for a non-sequel, non Animated film, was Ang Lee's Hulk. Yep that's right.

Right now, I'd say you're looking at a mid 50's opening, with the hope of being in the 60's. If it opens over 70, then the film is a hit, and to get that I think it has to have all 4 and 5 star reviews.

Again it's really shocking to see WB bury this film in June, considering how badly Green Lantern and Superman Returns performed, and what success they've had from that final July weekend. Especially considering the budget is rumored at $225 million.

IMO WB is setting themselves up for failure, especially considering how poor the marketing is for this movie.

I think if the buzz is good and the reviews are good, the film will do well. Many people thought opening Captain America up the week after Harry Potter was suicide, and it wound up doing enough to warrant a sequel. Superman has to recoup a bigger budget, but he's a much more popular character than Cap was when his first film hit.

[Juicy J]

Superman's going to do good to great money and get good to great reviews.
I'm going to go ahead and call that, that's just my prediction.
Which means that they will, in my mind, definitely move forward with the Justice league movie.
But it's not going to be pretty, I don't think. They've been planning a JL movie for years, yes, but them putting production into high gear once the Avengers received universal acclaim both critically and financially reeks of a cash grab.
They're at a major disadvantage and with only one solo film released beforehand, I see almost no way they can pull off a big budget JL movie without it being sort of a dud in some way.

[Tony Stark]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I think if the buzz is good and the reviews are good, the film will do well. Many people thought opening Captain America up the week after Harry Potter was suicide, and it wound up doing enough to warrant a sequel. Superman has to recoup a bigger budget, but he's a much more popular character than Cap was when his first film hit.

True, but Cap benefitted that Harry Potter was very front loaded, it did have a 60% drop in week 2 against Cowboys and Aliens, but recovered nicely and had a great run in August. I don't think MoS can afford the same luxury, if it has a 60% ween 2 drop then the film won't recover it's budget.

I think it's important to point out that Batman Begins was one of the best film of the summer of 2005, but it labored to 200M. Now it only had a 150M budget so that helped.

We will see what happens, but I've seen this with too many films. Like I said other than sequels or animated films, June openings don't do very well.