What if Justice League bombs?

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Zarex

What was thrown out the window? The Thor-Loki sibling rivalry? The Howard-Tony-Steve triangle, which led to the wonderfully terse single word introductions in Germany? The Phil-Pepper-Tony relationship, established way back in 2008. The trust Thor had in the "Son of Coul" and his horror at watching his death? You didn't need to see any of the prior films to watch the Avengers - but having done so greatly enhanced the experience.

Greatly enhanced? They spent all of a few minutes on each of those relationships in this film. Avengers is a fantastic superhero film but it's does nothing to enhance anything from the previous movies, at best it acknowledges the relationships from the previous films, but the way in which the film was made means there's little meaning to those relationships to anyone outside of the diehard fan base, it was made to appeal to everyone so all you were ever going to get was an acknowledgement to the past movies. Lets not make out Avengers is this great character piece that draws upon the previous films to deliver this epic story, it's a fun superhero film that doesn't apologies for what it is.

Originally Posted by Zarex

I'm not saying that the JL movie can't work on it's own. But it is going to be extraordinary difficult to introduce multiple new characters, give the audience a general understanding of their powers and background, have the individuals struggle to form a cohesive unit and then unite in victory. A Superman-Batman team up would be much easier to put together and potentially just as lucrative.

But Avengers did exactly that, introduced a bunch of characters. Just because we knew who these people were doesn't mean everyone did. The biggest misconception seems to be that everyone on the planet saw every lead up film to Avengers - they didn't, Marvel knew it and had to accommodate those people. The introductions are short and to the point, that's all JL needs to do as well. I haven't heard of one person who hadn't seen every lead up movie whine about not knowing enough about a certain character in Avengers. Why? Because it wasn't important what happened in the previous movies.

[Thundercrack85]

The Avengers movies' success (and existence for that matter) was largely owed to the success of Iron Man. And to a lesser extent, the success of the other movies (Thor, Captain America).

A standalone Avengers movie could have still been successful sure. But it wouldn't be the same. Or as successful.

Justice League is a different thing altogether. You don't have characters from successful solo franchises transferring over. At least not ones played by the same actor (Downey is Tony Stark in the general public's mind). And you only have one successful solo franchise, Batman.

And the characters are from such different worlds... It's just no a direct comparison you can make.

[the last son]

Originally Posted by lancimouspitt

For me the biggest problem comes just from the fact this seems to be a knee jerk reaction. Sure Caps,Thor,Avengers,IM,where all made to make money but you get the feeling their was a passion behind them. Like they wanted to tell a story.
With this,I just can't help but to feel as if it's strictly money and to hell with anything else.
I guess you can find lots of irony their,but that's my two cents.

Their solo films yes, but that crap called the avengers that was thrown on screen was the biggest money grab I've ever seen. No type of story, no chances taken, just a team-up. Nothing more than that. Everything was dumbed down to sell it.

[Thundercrack85]

I didn't really see it as any dumber than the other movies.

Well except Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk. Those movies were much more serious.

[Duran Man]

A movie with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman bombing? What nonsense is this?

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by the last son

Their solo films yes, but that crap called the avengers that was thrown on screen was the biggest money grab I've ever seen. No type of story, no chances taken, just a team-up. Nothing more than that. Everything was dumbed down to sell it.

It was nothing but a team-up. All the solo films (with the exception of Iron Man 1) were made just so they can get Avengers together. It's all one big money-making thing.

In this case, Man of Steel will be the one movie that's made with pure passion behind it, and if Cavill happens to be in the team-up, it was never planned. It'll be a happy accident.

I dont know the full story with Iron Man, if they were planning to start Avengers with that movie, but i get the feeling RDJ & Favreau just really wanted to make an Iron Man origin movie. The difference here is that the Flash & Wonder Woman films have been planned for a long time, so i dont want to say they're not all about passion but what's great is how every solo member won't have movies made beforehand. MOS will be the only one, and it was never supposed to be connected to JL. So AT LEAST we won't have to go through a handful of lead-up flicks that are safe and only made to get to some money squeezing dream-team.

I like the idea of it much more than Avengers that's for sure.

Jett from Batman On Film, and many other websites (and fans on here) are complaining it'll bomb or we wont want to see it because nobody wants to see these heroes in outer space (least of all Batman). But we haven't read the script or seen the movie. Maybe there wont be an alien invasion, maybe Aquaman and Martian Manhunter aren't involved, maybe "outer space" is not an issue.

Put Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman in a 2 hour movie and it's going to sell massively.

[Thundercrack85]

I think they were all made with profit in mind...

Though some did seem more "inspired" than others...

[Zarex]

[QUOTE=jmc;24518671]Greatly enhanced? They spent all of a few minutes on each of those relationships in this film. Avengers is a fantastic superhero film but it's does nothing to enhance anything from the previous movies, at best it acknowledges the relationships from the previous films, but the way in which the film was made means there's little meaning to those relationships to anyone outside of the diehard fan base, it was made to appeal to everyone so all you were ever going to get was an acknowledgement to the past movies. Lets not make out Avengers is this great character piece that draws upon the previous films to deliver this epic story, it's a fun superhero film that doesn't apologies for what it is.


But Avengers did exactly that, introduced a bunch of characters. Just because we knew who these people were doesn't mean everyone did. The biggest misconception seems to be that everyone on the planet saw every lead up film to Avengers - they didn't, Marvel knew it and had to accommodate those people. The introductions are short and to the point, that's all JL needs to do as well. I haven't heard of one person who hadn't seen every lead up movie whine about not knowing enough about a certain character in Avengers. Why? Because it wasn't important what happened in the previous

I would argue, however, that many of the movie goers with limited knowledge of the prior MCU films learned about the previous films through family members, friends and others who followed the series from the beginning. So few were going in completely "dry". And while the film is by no means a "great character piece", the prior films did, in fact, enhance the experience of seeing the Avengers. And I doubt whether the JL movie can be a fun, fantastic superhero film without a film or two to set the table for what should be an epic adventure.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by lancimouspitt

For me the biggest problem comes just from the fact this seems to be a knee jerk reaction. Sure Caps,Thor,Avengers,IM,where all made to make money but you get the feeling their was a passion behind them. Like they wanted to tell a story.
With this,I just can't help but to feel as if it's strictly money and to hell with anything else.
I guess you can find lots of irony their,but that's my two cents.

I get that feeling too. It worries me that there's no creative team attached to it yet. It makes it sound like it's the creation of some board room meeting vs. an inspired product.

[Boom]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Jett from Batman On Film, and many other websites (and fans on here) are complaining it'll bomb or we wont want to see it because nobody wants to see these heroes in outer space (least of all Batman). But we haven't read the script or seen the movie. Maybe there wont be an alien invasion, maybe Aquaman and Martian Manhunter aren't involved, maybe "outer space" is not an issue.

Pay no attention to Jett. He's a Nolan lobbyist hiding behind a Batman website.

Seriously. He's so far up Nolan's ass, that anything that doesn't fall into that pretty little world of faux realism is garbage by default.

[ЯɘvlveR]

and what story was that? about an alien invasion? never heard of a story like that before.

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by Boom

Pay no attention to Jett. He's a Nolan lobbyist hiding behind a Batman website.

Seriously. He's so far up Nolan's ass, that anything that doesn't fall into that pretty little world of faux realism is garbage by default.

Agreed and the Batman character is bigger then any one director so this JL and Batman reboot will be successful regardless if done well. Nolan himself chose not to be apart of this world. It's his right. He told his story so now others can successfully tell theirs.

[jaqua99]

wow

[T"Challa]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

wow

Yeah any mention of Avengers is anathema around these parts Jaqua..lol, According to some of these guys, pretty much the entire MCU is an uninspired, zero-risk cookie cutter cash-grabbing POS that should not be mentioned in the same breath as the JLA

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by T"Challa

Yeah any mention of Avengers is anathema around these parts Jaqua..lol, According to some of these guys, pretty much the entire MCU is an uninspired, zero-risk cookie cutter cash-grabbing POS that should not be mentioned in the same breath as the JLA

Entire MCU? No, but 90 percent of it is.

They take zero risks, same premise, never bending the genre or anything. Even movies i enjoyed have that light/one-liner/action adventure approach where the hero tries to be funny, gets the good girl, beats the baddie. And not once do you fear the safety of the hero. It's the same old tired formula with Marvel. If you like it then cool but i dont blame the DC fans for getting sick of seeing it.

DC is the same half the time. But they have the Dark Knight Trilogy, Watchmen, V For Vendetta, the upcoming Man Of Steel, Tim Burton's Batman movies were outside the box even if they were a bit retarded. They can do something extremely different with Wonder Woman and Justice League if they choose. Suicide Squad as well. Heck, even Lobo. It's all up to Warner Brothers.

[Dr Tactics]

I love the MCU but I don't want to see a clone formula from DC. I wanna see something different

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by JerseyJoker

I'm not being a pro Marvel/ anti DC guy at the moment.

I'm serious. At least going into The Avengers, studio could project a stream of success from all the solo films. Each one doing good to great business, so you have an idea where you might land with The Avengers at worse.

But with Justice League, they say it has no connection to Nolan's Batman and by the time it comes out there will only be one film its connected to and its Man of Steel. I doubt they are treating JL as a direct sequel to Man of Steel, so you can judge one from the other.

If JL bombs, how does that set back everything at DC/WB? We have seen WB take considerably long time developing projects and really not having the success rate they would want with titles not named Batman. If JL pulls in big box office and mediocre/ok reviews, WB probably wont mind, but if they put up Green Lantern figures, it will be a disappointment and how does that hurt the business of live action adaptations?

If JL bombs it means another 850 years of Batman films.

[shauner111]

I would love that lol.

[JB-the-Hunter]

Are people really downplaying The Avengers and the MCU here? I'm a Marvel and DC fan, but it's gonna be hard hanging around here if people like shauner111 don't play nicely. I hope to God that both The Avengers 2 and Justice League can gain the type of praise and success that the first Avengers had, and I hope that it spawns a DCCU.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Hey, the proof is in the pudding. $1.5 billion, critical and fan acclaim for the most part...I don't see why some irrelevant posting will make you head for the hills. And I say that not being a big fan of the Avengers myself. Give me the solo stuff anyday. Aside from the X-Men that is.

[Bruce_Begins]

Avengers was a highly entertaining, well made movie, I think it will be difficult for JL to be as successful as Avengers.

But, let's not pretend that Avengers was a piece of high art or the greatest comic book movie ever made, as it's 92 % RT rating 1.55 bil. box office and universal praise seems to suggest.


It was marketed as a "event" movie and main objective was to earn money so that more such movies could be made, nothing wrong with that, WB has struggled in past to give entertaining comic book movies (excluding Batman.) that make money.

[Thundercrack85]

What Avengers was, was a bunch of popular characters coming together, for a huge popcorn flick.

That's going to be hard to replicate with Justice League without a single well received movie franchise going into the movie (they won't be using Nolan's Batman).

Even harder since Green Lantern failed.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

What Avengers was, was a bunch of popular characters coming together, for a huge popcorn flick.

That's going to be hard to replicate with Justice League without a single well received movie franchise going into the movie (they won't be using Nolan's Batman).

Even harder since Green Lantern failed.

How is that going to be hard to replicate? JL is a bunch of popular characters(with Supes&Bats more well-known than any of The Avengers) coming together for a huge blockbuster. Just because they don't have lead-up movies don't mean that success will be hard to replicate. Also, JL will not have a franchise, but a potentially well received movie with MoS.

[Thundercrack85]

Let's review,

Green Lantern? They couldn't make him work in a solo film. That's not a good sign. And certainly won't get audiences excited for a movie he's in.

Wonder Woman has yet to be adapted to the big screen. And there's a reason for that. The failed TV show didn't help.

Then there's Superman, who's about to get his own franchise, who knows how that will work out. Hopefully better than Superman Returns.

Batman still needs to be rebooted.

Throwing these characters into a movie, is not the same as Avengers. Iron Man needed to happen. DC needs at least an Iron Man of its own (a successful film franchise going into the crossover film). And preferably one other successful movie.

At this point it's not even evident that they can make a decent Justice League movie.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Avengers was a highly entertaining, well made movie, I think it will be difficult for JL to be as successful as Avengers.

But, let's not pretend that Avengers was a piece of high art or the greatest comic book movie ever made, as it's 92 % RT rating 1.55 bil. box office and universal praise seems to suggest..

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

It was marketed as a "event" movie and main objective was to earn money so that more such movies could be made, nothing wrong with that, WB has struggled in past to give entertaining comic book movies (excluding Batman.) that make money.

This applies to every movie in the genre.