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Old 10-21-2012, 08:27 PM   #51
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Why is a race change a 'slap in the face' but all the other dramatic changes these characters undergone considered 'progress?'



Wait... why not have a white guy play blade? If he does a kick-tail job... why not?
Has anyone ever raised a big problem with this? Honestly... if Bruce Willis is playing Blade, is anyone going to raise a ruckus? No one had a problem with Robert Downey Junior playing in blackface for crying out loud! This idea that whites playing black characters, something that has happened throughout the history of cinema, as some big problem sounds like a bunch of malarkey. The only outcry is when black people play white characters.
RDJ was playing a white guy playing a charactee in blackface and the whole movie was a running joke about how inappropriate that was. There was a constant back and forth between Downey's blackfaced character and the actual black guy in the group, Alpa Chino played by Brandon T Jackson.

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Old 10-21-2012, 10:30 PM   #52
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

There's really no reason that even an iconic character like Superman or Batman couldn't be a different race, from a storytelling standpoint. (Side note: I think a black Batman would be amazing, ala Nighthawk in Supreme Power). I honestly can't think of any reason why Superman couldn't be black, for example. Somebody mentioned that Kansas is really white. Well, make him from Mississippi or Georgia or something. Still very Americana, still can be raised by a loving family, still can stand for truth, justice, etc. You can still have the exact same character, from a storytelling perspective.

But really, the issue is more about branding. These characters have been around for so long that their looks are burned into people's minds. And let's face it, it's a bigger issue to people like us than the general audience. Comic book fans don't like change. And we yearn to see the things we've loved on the page come to life. Frankly, comic fans can be a little shallow in that way, placing so much emphasis on appearance.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:03 AM   #53
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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of course not

slap in the face to fans & Blade creator

Blade was written as a black character and he stay that way. much like Batman, Wolverine, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. are white and they should stay white.
In the comics:
Batman is 6'2" (Michael Keaton is 5'10" and George Clooney is 5'11")
Wolverine is 5'3" (Hugh Jackman is 6' 2")
Superman has blue eyes( Dean Cain and Brandon Routh's are brown, although to be fair,Routh wore blue contacts)
Wonder Woman is 5'11" with black hair( Lynda Carter is just under 5'9" and Adrianne Palicki is a natural blonde, which means she had to dye her hair,something a real amazon would never do!)

My point is, just like height, eye and hair color doesn't matter when casting these characters, neither should race. And to Donnie Darko's point, I believe anytime a comic book character is adapted for film/tv , it automatically is an "ultimate" or "elseworld" take. Just look at Smallville, Raimi's Spiderman or Nolan's Batman films.

Btw, Ras Al Ghul is Arabic and Bane is Hispanic, yet how many fans (because we know the GA doesn't know/care) cared/complained about their race changes?

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:17 AM   #54
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

^the fact that you compared skin color to height and hair color 2 things easily managed on screen

is flat out ridiculous

you can change hair color and do camera tricks also hair color and height dont define a character's visual look but to cosmetically change a character skin tone and ethnicity is nowhere near the same at all and changes the visual look the fans grew up on

WTF

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:17 AM   #55
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

There are only a few characters where skin tone matters like Black Panther and Red Skull. (Sorry, I can't think of DC examples like that right now). Otherwise, race is as irrelevant as hair color. Size is, in just about every case, more important.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:20 AM   #56
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you would care more about height over skin tone?really...

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:33 AM   #57
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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you would care more about height over skin tone?really...
Haven't you noticed that every DC hero is over six feet tall?

Seriously... Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman...

You must be this tall to join the Justice League.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:37 AM   #58
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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you would care more about height over skin tone?really...
Not just height, overall body composition. Think about any of these: Chris Hemsworth as Spider-man, Michael Keaton as Colossus, John Goodman as Superman. None of those work at all just because of the actor's physical appearance.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:45 AM   #59
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

Wolverine not being a runt always bothered me.

He's always been a short scrapper with a napoleon complex. Which also fits with his powers and place as an underdog anti-hero.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:49 AM   #60
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Haven't you noticed that every DC hero is over six feet tall?

Seriously... Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman...

You must be this tall to join the Justice League.
bale and cavill certainly are not seen as tall as thier comic counter part people even complain henry is too short and it didn't affect them

is amy adams not lois because she is a red head was eckhart not two face because he was a blonde

is hugh not wolverine in the flesh because he isn't 5'3

many people here suggest 5'6-58 actresses for WW even tho ww is 5'11

i'd say i have seen enough evidence to say hair and height are not as drastic as skin color

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:54 AM   #61
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

In X-Men Cyclops wore platform shoes to seem taller than Hugh Jackman. Didn't have that problem with Jean, since Famke Janssen is really tall.

Not sure if they bothered with that in the sequels once every character became secondary to Wolverine.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:57 AM   #62
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

to be honest only thor being short would bother me he may be the only hero when it comes to height

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Old 10-22-2012, 02:12 AM   #63
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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to be honest only thor being short would bother me he may be the only hero when it comes to height
Colossus? Doc Samson? Luke Cage?

I found it very bothersome that the Thing was so short.

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Old 10-22-2012, 04:29 AM   #64
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

Race has never really mattered with Catwoman, she has been played by both white & black actresses.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:02 AM   #65
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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It's not really the same.

Popular black comic characters are rare and desperately valued as such whereas popular white characters are a dime a dozen so there's nothing lost by changing a few of them into a minority.
I understand where you're coming from, but it is the same to me, because my reason for being dissapointed by a race change would be that I simply like consistency in a characters appearance.

Besides, I just don't think changing the race of existing characters is the solution. Same with gender. Same with sexual orientation.

If you see there is a lack of black/female/gay characters in comics, or any medium for that matter... make more!

I mean, wouldn't it be way better if they continued introducing new characters into the DC or Marvel universe that where a bit more diverse? Isn't that a more logical way of approaching it, rather than trying to push race issues onto characters that have been well established for years?

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Right. So if you're opposed to changing the look of a character, which is a defining characteristic of a character in a visual medium like comics, then you're a racist. Oh please. I also recall people on this board complaining about Keanu being cast as John Constantine due to the fact that he's neither blonde nor British. So is that indicative of a deep-seated racism on the part of this board against dark-haired white American men?
This.

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:00 AM   #66
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Colossus? Doc Samson? Luke Cage?

I found it very bothersome that the Thing was so short.
really i was more bothered by them making sue storm a latina with a bad dye job and expected audience to buy her and chris evans being brother and sister

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:43 AM   #67
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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Originally Posted by ЯɘvlveR View Post
...i think wondy could be ethinically ambigous looking enough that she could be played but someone white, latina, or black.
And she has, by: Linda Jean Cůrdova Carter

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...a black Nick Fury doesn't bother me but that doesn't mean I would accept an Asian Superman.
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Originally Posted by NosfeRomas View Post
I think it matters, i can never see an Asian Superman
And you have: Dean George Tanaka Cain

But yeah they had the right hair color, so it's ok.

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Americans trusted Superman because he blend in from Day 1. he looked like an avarage american. he represented the avarage american who wanted to be super,
Latino, Asian, Arab, Black, "look like" and "blend in" and want to be "super" at things as much as any other American, just cause you or someone don't trust them, doesn't make them not represent Americans.


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Old 10-22-2012, 09:16 AM   #68
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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really i was more bothered by them making sue storm a latina with a bad dye job and expected audience to buy her and chris evans being brother and sister
latinos can be ambiguous of race though. they aren't all olived skinned brown eyed brunettes. even alba's half danish/french canadian.
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Wolverine not being a runt always bothered me.

He's always been a short scrapper with a napoleon complex. Which also fits with his powers and place as an underdog anti-hero.
me too.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:33 AM   #69
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

people need to stop bringing up dean cain if he was 100 Asian you think he would of been cast as superman ?

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:42 AM   #70
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

It comes down to how grounded the character is in the public's consciousness. Sure, you can have a black Bruce Wayne, or a black Batman, but eventually the more traditional interpretation will win out. Nick Fury really never caught on outside of being a major recurring background character, otherwise though he's a C-Listed at best. His popularity doesn't really suffer from a race change because he's not really embedded as strongly as other characters.

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:36 AM   #71
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

Seem like race only matters in American comics, but when it comes to Manga, everything gets white-washed. Goku played by a Justin Chatwin ? really ? Kenshiro from Fist of the Northstar played by Gary Daniels ? And talks about Akira with white-leading actors ? I remember the backlash from some fans when Firestorm was made african-american, and he's not even a well-known top tier hero like Batman and Super Man

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:46 AM   #72
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Seem like race only matters in American comics, but when it comes to Manga, everything gets white-washed. Goku played by a Justin Chatwin ? really ? Kenshiro from Fist of the Northstar played by Gary Daniels ? And talks about Akira with white-leading actors ? I remember the backlash from some fans when Firestorm was made african-american, and he's not even a well-known top tier hero like Batman and Super Man
To be fair, I don't think many white American fans are too supportive of any of these changes when those animes are white-washed. Also, Akira may well be in development hell because the producers are starting to realize how badly these things turned out when they try to Americanize them.

If anything this kind of supports the argument you can't simply change someone like Batman's race. Certainly in Akira and DBZ you have these really Asian and Japanese themes that just don't resonate in American culture. When you make the actors American it just comes off wrong.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:08 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
^the fact that you compared skin color to height and hair color 2 things easily managed on screen

is flat out ridiculous

you can change hair color and do camera tricks also hair color and height dont define a character's visual look but to cosmetically change a character skin tone and ethnicity is nowhere near the same at all and changes the visual look the fans grew up on

WTF
The reason I compared race with those things is because when it comes to casting an actor/actress for one of these roles, none of that stuff should matter! Race is just as irrelevant as height and hair color. As many people have pointed out on this thread, there are only a hand full of American comic book characters in which their race is actually important to their background story. All the others just happened to be created in a time where they wouldn't be accepted if they were a minority.

I am in no way suggesting that there should be a complete "re-racing" of all our favorite heroes just to be pc.That would be ridiculous! If you notice, this isn't about the comics themselves, its about tv/film. Film and television have always strayed from the source material(a genre that can ,and often has, reboot itself).

Btw, do fans really love and connect with these characters because of how they look, or because of who they are and what they do that makes them a hero? Would Batman be any less of who he is as a character and a hero if the only thing different about him was the color of his skin?


Last edited by bat89; 10-22-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:23 PM   #74
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

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RDJ was playing a white guy playing a charactee in blackface and the whole movie was a running joke about how inappropriate that was. There was a constant back and forth between Downey's blackfaced character and the actual black guy in the group, Alpa Chino played by Brandon T Jackson.
That's true, my point was that he did something that is/was considered always and eternally offensive (blackface) and no one raised a stink about it. The idea that some PC brigade exists or has any impact on entertainment whatsoever is patently false. White people playing minority roles gets relatively no backlash, the biggest ever was a completely ineffectual vocal minority for Last Airbender, but no such backlash for Prince of Persia (and certainly none for roles based on real life minorities) which did well at the box office. It's not a big deal, getting rid of minority heroes in the media. Never has been throughout the history of cinema, which has a well storied history of such activity. So the idea that there is some PC agenda involved sounds pretty dumb to me.

Now that every once in a while the shoe is on the other foot though, it's a major problem. That's not equity.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:32 PM   #75
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Default Re: Does Race Really Matter?

The type of mask a superhero wears may also plays a role in the audience's acceptance of racial flexibility in casting. Given his comedic skill and lanky built, I was hoping Donald Glover would get a shot at landing the role of Spider-man in the reboot. And I doubt fans would be up in arms if an Asian actor won the role of Tony Stark when (or if) RDJ decides to turn in the keys to the Iron Man suit. It may be more difficult, however, for casting agents to show the same flexibility when filling the role of Superman or Thor.

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