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Old 04-12-2013, 03:25 PM   #426
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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I think Smashlilman is joking.
My comment wasn't really directed at Smash.
I was merely venting my frustration. The senseless picking on the character, essentially demonizing him, is unfair.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:26 PM   #427
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Or Mister Fantastic or Daredevil.

It was 30 years and the storyline was resolved yet people are still going on about it like it happened last week.

Pym has been getting slapped by women by artists recreating that famous pannel constantly the last 30 years.
Amen!

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #428
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Aren't most people talking about his behavior in the Ultimates, though? That one was way worse and absolutely made me hate him as a character.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #429
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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Aren't most people talking about his behavior in the Ultimates, though? That one was way worse and absolutely made me hate him as a character.
Then why use a picture from the 616 from over 30 years ago to demonstrate that?

And if we're going by Ultimates, then Hulk should eat people.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:54 PM   #430
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hey Crimson.
I wouldn't be upset about someone dissing the Ultimates version, because he was a douche. But I believe even that version of him came about due the negative, undeserved, hype he'd gotten before, so the creative team built on that.
I do have a problem with people exaggerating and misconstruing what happened with the original 616 character, and I do see that happening a lot.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:57 PM   #431
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Many of the Ultimate characters are terrible versions of the 616 originals.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are a incest couple. Red Skull is Captain America's son. Hulk is a cannibal.

The Ultimate comics have been grown more irrelevant as time goes on with the exception of Spider-Man. I think its only still around for Marvel to pick the good things from it to adapt for the movies.

Ultimate Hank Pym is very different from 616 Hank Pym.
616 Pym never regularly beat and bullied Janet.

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Old 04-12-2013, 04:00 PM   #432
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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Many of the Ultimate characters are terrible versions of the 616 originals.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are a incest couple. Red Skull is Captain America's son. Hulk is a cannibal.

The Ultimate comics have been grown more irrelevant as time goes on with the exception of Spider-Man. I think its only still around for Marvel to pick the good things from it to adapt for the movies.

Ultimate Hank Pym is very different from 616 Hank Pym.

haha I don't read comics but WTF???

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Old 04-12-2013, 05:32 PM   #433
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Then why use a picture from the 616 from over 30 years ago to demonstrate that?

And if we're going by Ultimates, then Hulk should eat people.
I just meant in general when bringing up the Hank slaps. I didn't even know there was a 616 slapping episode.

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:26 PM   #434
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*Sigh*
The guy was under the influence of some nasty stuff when that one time event happened.
he wasn't though. this was disproven twice. they used a memory reading helmet to prove that he was in control of himself. it was in the same run. then Avengers Forever showed that he wasn't influenced by Immortus or some Avengers villain. by making excuses for him you cheapen Hank. he knows exactly what happened. and he's not making excuses about it. this is part of his overall character arc; making up for past mistakes. he and Jan had a lousy passive-aggressive relationship. he has said as much. maybe it's because Jan was very young (and focused on the death of her father) when they met. and Hank was a widower, at that point. it's amazing that they lasted as long as they did.


p.s. to the other poster, Hank fully earned that slap from Jocasta. if he's the "father of A.I.", what he was doing was child abuse.

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:33 PM   #435
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He was in a drug induced psychotic break. It's not an excuse, it's a fact of how that scene came to be, and it doesn't cheapen his character. If they expanded on that in retcons and he took ownership, fine, but in the original story that's how it happened and it's important to know the context of things.
My point is that it's frustrating how many people, writers included, continue to harp on that while they ignore things like this:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...kyfranklin.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/a1u5o9.jpg
http://2dreviews.ca/wp-content/uploa...-mary-jane.jpg
It's a hypocritical double standard and I find it unacceptable.

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Old 04-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #436
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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He was in a drug induced psychotic break. It's not an excuse, it's a fact of how that scene came to be, and it doesn't cheapen his character. If they expanded on that in retcons and he took ownership, fine, but in the original story that's how it happened and it's important to know the context of things.
My point is that it's frustrating how many people, writers included, continue to harp on that while they ignore things like this:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...kyfranklin.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/a1u5o9.jpg
http://2dreviews.ca/wp-content/uploa...-mary-jane.jpg
It's a hypocritical double standard and I find it unacceptable.
What's worse is that Reed is not lashing out and has no excuses in those stories. He's deliberately hitting Sue. It's not like Hank where he's pushing Jan away because he doesn't want her near him (a bit like that Spider-Man panel) but misjudges the force of his push (which ends up more of a back hand slap).

And Franklin's dialogue there suggests that it's a pattern of abuse. He says "hit Mommy again. I like it when you hit her" as if it isn't the first time.

And yet Reed gets off scott free. Well Reed wasn't portrayed as the wife beater in any of the FF movies, so why should Hank?

And those pics deserve to be seen properly:






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Old 04-12-2013, 08:35 PM   #437
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He was in a drug induced psychotic break.
show me where the drugs wore off and he became healthy enough to be an Avenger again.

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Old 04-12-2013, 09:18 PM   #438
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show me where the drugs wore off and he became healthy enough to be an Avenger again.
Uh, what?

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:41 PM   #439
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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show me where the drugs wore off and he became healthy enough to be an Avenger again.
Several years later.
Pym was bounced from the Avengers after an official court-martial (which actually had nothing to do with him *****-slapping Janet, but rather with him endangering civilians during an attack on an obscure villain several issues earlier ---- it was the beginnings of that court-martial that caused Pym to lose his fragile grip on sanity and concoct the whole sordid plot that blew up in his face) in #213, 1981. A few years later, the West Coast Avengers formed, and Pym became a member by 1985. Hell, Janet even started dating him again by 1989. Pym returned to full status as Avenger Giant-Man in 1993, and there he's remained ever since, except for a brief hiatus after Disassembled (around 2005) when he and Jan tried to devote time to rebuilding their relationship.

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Old 04-13-2013, 12:06 AM   #440
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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Several years later.
Pym was bounced from the Avengers after an official court-martial (which actually had nothing to do with him *****-slapping Janet, but rather with him endangering civilians during an attack on an obscure villain several issues earlier ---- it was the beginnings of that court-martial that caused Pym to lose his fragile grip on sanity and concoct the whole sordid plot that blew up in his face) in #213, 1981. A few years later, the West Coast Avengers formed, and Pym became a member by 1985. Hell, Janet even started dating him again by 1989. Pym returned to full status as Avenger Giant-Man in 1993, and there he's remained ever since, except for a brief hiatus after Disassembled (around 2005) when he and Jan tried to devote time to rebuilding their relationship.


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Old 04-13-2013, 01:42 AM   #441
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

I'm kind of scared that they're going to do the "To steal an Ant-Man" story but with Janet in Cassie's place.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:07 AM   #442
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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He was in a drug induced psychotic break. It's not an excuse, it's a fact of how that scene came to be, and it doesn't cheapen his character. If they expanded on that in retcons and he took ownership, fine, but in the original story that's how it happened and it's important to know the context of things.
My point is that it's frustrating how many people, writers included, continue to harp on that while they ignore things like this:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...kyfranklin.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/a1u5o9.jpg
http://2dreviews.ca/wp-content/uploa...-mary-jane.jpg
It's a hypocritical double standard and I find it unacceptable.
Another double standard is that domestic violence against male characters elicits nary a peep from readers. In a recent issue of Hawkeye's book, Spider-Woman slapped Clint repeatedly, but this was portrayed as not merely okay but justified. Spider-Woman has superhuman strength and could easily take Clint's head off is she wanted to, an imbalance of power that makes her assault on him that much worse.

Violence between partners is never okay, it is never justified, and portraying it as such without addressing that fact simply because the victim was male is a major mistake, in my opinion. Drew hit Clint because she was upset by his behavior, which is often an abuser's justification, but that was no more valid than a man who hits his girlfriend because he was angry with her. Had their roles been reversed and Clint struck Drew, the wails of outrage would still be reverberating. Condemning male abusers while giving females a pass is the height of hypocrisy.


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Old 04-13-2013, 07:10 AM   #443
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haha I don't read comics but WTF???
Blob ate wasp and Pym bit his head off and spat it out.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:17 AM   #444
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Blob ate wasp and Pym bit his head off and spat it out.
That and more is why the Ultimate line is ****.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:42 AM   #445
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That and more is why the Ultimate line is ****.
The truth

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Old 04-13-2013, 08:05 AM   #446
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Blob ate wasp and Pym bit his head off and spat it out.
how do people actually enjoy reading those stories? haha

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Old 04-13-2013, 09:28 AM   #447
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*Sigh*
The guy was under the influence of some nasty stuff when that one time event happened. He's not a wife beater!

The whole double standard with Hank is annoying, why isn't this brought up about Spidey? He hit MJ!
Probably because Spider-man has an actual established characterization and iconism, for that incident to contradict. Whereas Pym is remembered *because* of that incident; remove it, and you don't have much of anything left ( aside from "builds evil robots" ). That's the weakness of being a bland character.

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Old 04-13-2013, 03:27 PM   #448
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Probably because Spider-man has an actual established characterization and iconism, for that incident to contradict. Whereas Pym is remembered *because* of that incident; remove it, and you don't have much of anything left ( aside from "builds evil robots" ). That's the weakness of being a bland character.
That's nonsense.

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Old 04-13-2013, 04:38 PM   #449
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Another double standard is that domestic violence against male characters elicits nary a peep from readers. In a recent issue of Hawkeye's book, Spider-Woman slapped Clint repeatedly, but this was portrayed as not merely okay but justified. Spider-Woman has superhuman strength and could easily take Clint's head off is she wanted to, an imbalance of power that makes her assault on him that much worse.

Violence between partners is never okay, it is never justified, and portraying it as such without addressing that fact simply because the victim was male is a major mistake, in my opinion. Drew hit Clint because she was upset by his behavior, which is often an abuser's justification, but that was no more valid than a man who hits his girlfriend because he was angry with her. Had their roles been reversed and Clint struck Drew, the wails of outrage would still be reverberating. Condemning male abusers while giving females a pass is the height of hypocrisy.

Yeah that has COMPLETELY changed my view on Matt's Hawkeye. That is not okay.

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Old 04-13-2013, 10:35 PM   #450
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Yeah that has COMPLETELY changed my view on Matt's Hawkeye. That is not okay.

Marvel posted that page on Tumblr, and when I reblogged it I added a note that if Clint were a real person I'd urge him to get out of that abusive relationship. The worst part about it was that the situation was supposed to be funny. That is an old fashioned attitude, I suppose, that abuse can be played for laughs in certain situations, particularly if the victim is portrayed as "deserving" it.

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