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Old 04-13-2013, 11:46 PM   #451
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I'm not sure what the purpose of this current run of the thread is....yes, we ALL know domestic violence is terrible, and victims should never try to stay in an abusive relationship, regardless of whether they're male or female. It's a no-brainer. I haven't read any posts in this thread that suggest otherwise, so is this a case of preaching to the choir....?

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:04 AM   #452
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I hope Hank smacks the **** out of Jan's mouth in the movie. The backlash tears will be delicious.

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:07 AM   #453
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I'm not sure what the purpose of this current run of the thread is....yes, we ALL know domestic violence is terrible, and victims should never try to stay in an abusive relationship, regardless of whether they're male or female. It's a no-brainer. I haven't read any posts in this thread that suggest otherwise, so is this a case of preaching to the choir....?

Read the post directly below yours and maybe you'll rethink that.

....And actually what the rational people in this thread were doing was discussing the fact that Hank Pym isn't the only character who has been abusive towards a partner, yet he is the only one whom most fans single out for it.


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Old 04-14-2013, 12:26 AM   #454
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Yes I'm obviously an avid advocator for wife smacking.

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:49 AM   #455
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Dude. Sarcasm is extremely difficult to comprehend over the web. No matter how ironic you think you are being.

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Old 04-14-2013, 02:07 AM   #456
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I don't care how hard you think it is, the post above you is obvious sarcasm to anyone with above elementary school comprehension of English.

Anyway, my post before that isn't even meant to be sarcastic. I really hope he does hit Jan, because I want to see people cry for no reason about it.

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Old 04-14-2013, 07:05 AM   #457
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Okay, you just went from sarcasm and jokes to a *definite* response why this thread has gone off the rails.

Carry on, xeno000.

And Dent....? Dude. Seriously.

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Old 04-14-2013, 07:45 PM   #458
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Another double standard is that domestic violence against male characters elicits nary a peep from readers. In a recent issue of Hawkeye's book, Spider-Woman slapped Clint repeatedly, but this was portrayed as not merely okay but justified. Spider-Woman has superhuman strength and could easily take Clint's head off is she wanted to, an imbalance of power that makes her assault on him that much worse.
Very good point

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Old 04-15-2013, 08:12 AM   #459
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"Ant-Man" is already a catchy name for a movie. Plus its simple and direct.
And once the GA sees the "MARVEL" logo in front of it, i'm sure a good portion of them will realize it has to be good.

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:33 AM   #460
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Once they show some TV spots and trailers of him kicking ass like he did in the test footage I'm sure it will win over some skeptics.

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Old 04-15-2013, 01:33 PM   #461
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Several years later.
Pym was bounced from the Avengers after an official court-martial (which actually had nothing to do with him *****-slapping Janet, but rather with him endangering civilians during an attack on an obscure villain several issues earlier ---- it was the beginnings of that court-martial that caused Pym to lose his fragile grip on sanity and concoct the whole sordid plot that blew up in his face) in #213, 1981. A few years later, the West Coast Avengers formed, and Pym became a member by 1985. Hell, Janet even started dating him again by 1989. Pym returned to full status as Avenger Giant-Man in 1993, and there he's remained ever since, except for a brief hiatus after Disassembled (around 2005) when he and Jan tried to devote time to rebuilding their relationship.
thanks for the spin Fox news. i know pym's history. i just asked a simple question. if we're blaming this on a drug, when did the drug wear off? why hasn't Pym researched this drug? it (by your estimation) caused him to flip out, beat up his loving wife, and ruined his career as an Avenger. so why haven't we been shown that this was all caused by chemicals? why did they go through the trouble of excluding Immortus and any kind of mind-tampering?

and i just gotta say that you make Pym out to be a helpless minor. you say that the beginning of the court martial caused him to beat his wife? or was it the chemicals? don't you see that you're just throwing more and more excuses out there? next someone will mention Reed Richards or Spider-man as if i give a **** about someone else's crimes. we're talking about Hank and what he did. Jan and Hank got back together because that's how a dysfunctional relationship works (see: Rihanna). can't believe that you cited Disassembled. are you forgetting how that turned out? i'll help you out. it started with Pym ducking the battle at the mansion so he could tell a bed ridden Jan how awful she was as a wife. it ended with Jan telling the skrull Hank was sleeping with that she should aim higher.

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Old 04-15-2013, 01:48 PM   #462
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thanks for the spin Fox news. i know pym's history. i just asked a simple question. if we're blaming this on a drug, when did the drug wear off? why hasn't Pym researched this drug? it (by your estimation) caused him to flip out, beat up his loving wife, and ruined his career as an Avenger. so why haven't we been shown that this was all caused by chemicals? why did they go through the trouble of excluding Immortus and any kind of mind-tampering?

and i just gotta say that you make Pym out to be a helpless minor. you say that the beginning of the court martial caused him to beat his wife? or was it the chemicals? don't you see that you're just throwing more and more excuses out there? next someone will mention Reed Richards or Spider-man as if i give a **** about someone else's crimes. we're talking about Hank and what he did. Jan and Hank got back together because that's how a dysfunctional relationship works (see: Rihanna). can't believe that you cited Disassembled. are you forgetting how that turned out? i'll help you out. it started with Pym ducking the battle at the mansion so he could tell a bed ridden Jan how awful she was as a wife. it ended with Jan telling the skrull Hank was sleeping with that she should aim higher.
Overreact much?

Protip: lay off the caffeine....your body will thank you later.

You "asked a simple question"....I provided a simple answer. Wasn't trying to give you the third degree; don't know why the hell *you* are.

Cheers.

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Old 04-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #463
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thanks for the spin Fox news. i know pym's history. i just asked a simple question. if we're blaming this on a drug, when did the drug wear off? why hasn't Pym researched this drug? it (by your estimation) caused him to flip out, beat up his loving wife, and ruined his career as an Avenger. so why haven't we been shown that this was all caused by chemicals? why did they go through the trouble of excluding Immortus and any kind of mind-tampering?

and i just gotta say that you make Pym out to be a helpless minor. you say that the beginning of the court martial caused him to beat his wife? or was it the chemicals? don't you see that you're just throwing more and more excuses out there? next someone will mention Reed Richards or Spider-man as if i give a **** about someone else's crimes. we're talking about Hank and what he did. Jan and Hank got back together because that's how a dysfunctional relationship works (see: Rihanna). can't believe that you cited Disassembled. are you forgetting how that turned out? i'll help you out. it started with Pym ducking the battle at the mansion so he could tell a bed ridden Jan how awful she was as a wife. it ended with Jan telling the skrull Hank was sleeping with that she should aim higher.
Let's just clarify. In the original story, Hank struck his wife once when she tried to get him to open up. It was a kind of lashing out/ pushing away that was somewhat misjudged. Now I don't excuse that kind of behaviour, but he was immediately remorseful and brought to his senses as to what he'd done. It definitely wasn't that he "beat" his wife, suggesting both a deliberate act, and a repeated one where he continued to inflict injury upon her and force her into submission.

It was NOT an abusive relationship whatsoever where he would beat her, become remorseful, ask her forgiveness and promise never to do it again, and then she'd let him back in only for him to beat her again. There was no previous pattern of behaviour like this and there hadn't been since, until writers decided to pick up on this isolated incident and make it represent the man in the Ultimates.

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Old 04-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #464
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holy **** are we defensive here lol

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Old 04-15-2013, 03:08 PM   #465
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People be mad lol


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Old 04-15-2013, 03:38 PM   #466
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I was just thinking about something... Do you guys think we'll get to see Korr in the movie?

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Old 04-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #467
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thanks for the spin Fox news. i know pym's history. i just asked a simple question. if we're blaming this on a drug...
I hadn't gotten into the drugs/chemicals specifics before, because this wasn't the point of the discussion we were having.
But since it seems to be important for you, here goes (don't complain later about knowing the history, you asked for it):
Hank was struggling with his size changing abilities, because when he would use his powers as Giant-Man and grew past 12 or 15 feet, he would be unstable (balance-wise). Because of this he started refining his Pym Particle delivery mechanism and using a series of pills that would make the growth spurt quicker and more stable. These pills though added further to his psychological problems. The experimentation continued and one day while working at his lab he spilled some untested chemicals and these caused a reaction. The gases that he was exposed to caused a schizophrenic break which was what resulted in the creation of the Yellowjacket identity. He was so unhinged that he actually believed he as Yellowjacket had killed "Hank Pym". It was while in this persona that the often talked about event occurred. Which is why I had made my previous comment.

There. Now if you want the issue numbers that's your homework, I'm not going to look for them.

I do however have some interesting reading about the abuse subject (Jim Shooter interview): http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/03/ha...fe-beater.html

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Old 04-15-2013, 06:21 PM   #468
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I hadn't gotten into the drugs/chemicals specifics before, because this wasn't the point of the discussion we were having.
But since it seems to be important for you, here goes (don't complain later about knowing the history, you asked for it):
Hank was struggling with his size changing abilities, because when he would use his powers as Giant-Man and grew past 12 or 15 feet, he would be unstable (balance-wise). Because of this he started refining his Pym Particle delivery mechanism and using a series of pills that would make the growth spurt quicker and more stable. These pills though added further to his psychological problems. The experimentation continued and one day while working at his lab he spilled some untested chemicals and these caused a reaction. The gases that he was exposed to caused a schizophrenic break which was what resulted in the creation of the Yellowjacket identity. He was so unhinged that he actually believed he as Yellowjacket had killed "Hank Pym". It was while in this persona that the often talked about event occurred. Which is why I had made my previous comment.

There. Now if you want the issue numbers that's your homework, I'm not going to look for them.
lol. you think you've made a point. he did not beat up Jan while thinking that Hank was dead. would you like to try again? i have all of those issues! and i've done my homework. Hank knew right and wrong when he sicced that indestructible robot on his teammates. he was being court-martialed; not committed. drugs didn't not make him beat up Jan.

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Old 04-15-2013, 06:29 PM   #469
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Let's just clarify. In the original story, Hank struck his wife once when she tried to get him to open up.
no. Hank backhanded his ex because she tried to talk him out of a really stupid selfish stunt.


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It was a kind of lashing out/ pushing away that was somewhat misjudged.
that's what was intended. that's not what appeared on the page. what happened within the comic is that he angrily swatted her out of the way; causing her eye to be swollen shut.

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Now I don't excuse that kind of behaviour,
all of you have excused that behavior

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but he was immediately remorseful
bull! he didn't give a single damn about what happened to Jan. he didn't even look at her when she walked into that meeting room with her shiner. when confronted with what he had done, what was his reaction? i remember him ranting about how unfair it was that his plan hadn't worked. then he slunk out of the mansion like a self-pitying louse. i have the issue right in front of me.

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and brought to his senses as to what he'd done. It definitely wasn't that he "beat" his wife, suggesting both a deliberate act, and a repeated one where he continued to inflict injury upon her and force her into submission.
he knocked her to the ground. he assaulted someone he was not in combat with. she was just trying to help him.

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It was NOT an abusive relationship whatsoever where he would beat her,
just passive aggressive and verbally abusive; culminating in him treating her as a nuisance.

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Old 04-15-2013, 08:22 PM   #470
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Real quick on the "smacking Jan around" topic.... If this was a big blockbuster film with a real deep, emotional plot (like Iron Man 3 is supposed to be. Or like TDK was) I would want to see it. It would add depth to the characters and their progression. However, this will likely be a more fun, family friendly marvel movie. If that's the case, I don't want to see it. It'll just over-complicate things and rub the general audience the wrong way. Marvel has a great thing going. Don't take a risk that big and ruin it.

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #471
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no. Hank backhanded his ex because she tried to talk him out of a really stupid selfish stunt.




that's what was intended. that's not what appeared on the page. what happened within the comic is that he angrily swatted her out of the way; causing her eye to be swollen shut.



all of you have excused that behavior
No. NOBODY has excused that behavior.
Quit arguing with your straw men. Exactly NOBODY in this thread is trying to give Hank Pym a free pass for smacking Janet around. The only thing people are saying is that Hank isn't the ONLY one in Marvel Comics guilty of that; he's just the only one who gets slammed for it.

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Real quick on the "smacking Jan around" topic.... If this was a big blockbuster film with a real deep, emotional plot (like Iron Man 3 is supposed to be. Or like TDK was) I would want to see it. It would add depth to the characters and their progression. However, this will likely be a more fun, family friendly marvel movie. If that's the case, I don't want to see it. It'll just over-complicate things and rub the general audience the wrong way. Marvel has a great thing going. Don't take a risk that big and ruin it.
Exactly.
Plus, given that Edgar Wright and Joe Cornish are responsible for this film, and are famous for comedy as opposed to gritty and realistic domestic drama, there is exactly a 0.000174% chance that they're going to make Pym look like the ass he is in the comics.

Unless they plan to make Lang the hero, and Pym a villain/anti-hero.

But I've got to stop thinking that way...

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #472
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No. NOBODY has excused that behavior.
Quit arguing with your straw men. Exactly NOBODY in this thread is trying to give Hank Pym a free pass for smacking Janet around. The only thing people are saying is that Hank isn't the ONLY one in Marvel Comics guilty of that; he's just the only one who gets slammed for it.


This is it. Hank's behaviour isn't excused. The criticism here in this thread is of the double standards where Reed and Spidey are given the Lindsay Lohan treatment whereby anyone not a celebrity would've been thrown in jail long ago and not given all these chances but she seems to be continually excused. Just because Reed and Spidey have done other things, even things of note or benefit to others shouldn't excuse the fact that both of them were abusive physically too. The same standard should be applied.

In fact it sounds more like Ant Maniac is excusing abusive behaviour himself where, if that abuser has something else to contribute, then we can just let the abuse slide and pretend it never happened. That already goes on enough in real life with people in power or of influence.

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Old 04-16-2013, 08:34 AM   #473
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Ant-Man co-writer Joe Cornish is going to be at the Iron Man 3 premier in LA.

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Old 04-16-2013, 08:41 AM   #474
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i hope hank smacks the **** out of jan's mouth in the movie. The backlash tears will be delicious.
lol

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Old 04-16-2013, 09:49 AM   #475
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all of you have excused that behavior
Not true. You seem to be reading a different conversation, or you're one of those people that just loves to argue.

I'm not even sure what your point is anymore. Do you want Hank to be shown as an abusive partner in the movie? If so, why? As many have expressed this is a very unlikely scenario in the MCU.

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