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Old 02-09-2013, 07:44 AM   #176
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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I have a feeling they'll use Pym with Lang's story.
What....steal the Ant-Man suit from himself...?

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Old 02-09-2013, 07:46 AM   #177
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What....steal the Ant-Man suit from himself...?
From SHIELD I expect

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Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 AM   #178
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Well as I said before, maybe someone else can have created the design of the suit, but Pym invented the particles that enable him to shrink. So maybe Pym could be blackmailed into stealing the suit by someone else (AIM, Egghead, Whirlwind, who knows?) in order to save someone. Then perhaps he could meet Jan along the way. At first she tries to stop him, but then helps him out, and they team up when he turns her into Wasp.

That way at least it can be an origin for Pym and Wright can still get to do his "to steal an Ant-Man" story in some way without having to bypass Pym.

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Old 02-09-2013, 08:36 AM   #179
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Then perhaps he could meet Jan along the way. At first she tries to stop him, but then helps him out, and they team up when he turns her into Wasp.
A lovable criminal on the run and a wealthy it girl he met that somehow gets involved in his adventuring trip, hiding from authorities...
a lot of screwball comedy possibilities here, especially if they have a Willie/Indy kind of banter going on all the time

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Old 02-09-2013, 08:39 AM   #180
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Well I wouldn't go as far as to make Pym a criminal. I definitely don't want Jan pairing up with Lang though, just for the sake of those screwball comedy possibilities.

I'd have Pym maybe on the run for part of the movie, until SHIELD realise he's acting out of duress and decide to use him to turn the tables on his and their enemies. He could then end up a double agent for SHIELD, along with Jan.

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Old 02-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #181
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I'd have Pym maybe on the run for part of the movie, until SHIELD realise he's acting out of duress and decide to use him to turn the tables on his and their enemies. He could then end up a double agent for SHIELD, along with Jan.
They already have that storyline with the Hulk.

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Old 02-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #182
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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Well as I said before, maybe someone else can have created the design of the suit, but Pym invented the particles that enable him to shrink. So maybe Pym could be blackmailed into stealing the suit by someone else (AIM, Egghead, Whirlwind, who knows?) in order to save someone. Then perhaps he could meet Jan along the way. At first she tries to stop him, but then helps him out, and they team up when he turns her into Wasp.

That way at least it can be an origin for Pym and Wright can still get to do his "to steal an Ant-Man" story in some way without having to bypass Pym.
That takes too much away from Hank Pym as a genius.
Pym has been described at various times in Marvel history as a genius on par with Tony Stark and Reed Richards. In more recent years, he may (or may not) be Earth's "Scientist Supreme." If he doesn't design the shrinking/growing suit, he's not as brilliant as he's supposed to be; if he tries to steal the suit that somebody else invented, then he's no more than a thief.

The suit belongs to Pym. It has to. He discovered the Particles; he created the suit; he was his own guinea pig. Anything less than that makes him that much less of a scientist.

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:23 PM   #183
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That takes too much away from Hank Pym as a genius.
Pym has been described at various times in Marvel history as a genius on par with Tony Stark and Reed Richards. In more recent years, he may (or may not) be Earth's "Scientist Supreme." If he doesn't design the shrinking/growing suit, he's not as brilliant as he's supposed to be; if he tries to steal the suit that somebody else invented, then he's no more than a thief.

The suit belongs to Pym. It has to. He discovered the Particles; he created the suit; he was his own guinea pig. Anything less than that makes him that much less of a scientist.
Pym can shrink in anything, as long as there are unstable molecules. I did say in an earlier post though that Pym could have designed the suit for an organisation but now has to steal his own creation because he's under duress. That still makes him the inventor and scientist but allows him to fit into this "to steal an Ant Man" story that Wright is obsessed with.

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Old 02-10-2013, 02:20 AM   #184
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

WAIT A SECOND, SHUT THE FRONT DOOR! Erik said in Thor that SHILED had a "scientist'" technology (thought to be Pym's). This totally goes with Dark Raven's story of him stealing it back.
I'm now 30% sure that the film will have Pym/*sigh* Lang stealing his Ant Man tech back from SHIELD.

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Old 02-10-2013, 02:23 AM   #185
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I'd be down with Hank stealing his own tech back from someone (SHIELD, AIM, whomever)

Bonus points if he goes on the lam and uses 'Scott Lang' as an alias.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #186
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

I'd say just think of it like Iron Man. If, in Iron Man 2, when the government wanted Stark's armour, they did manage to take it for themselves, Stark might want to steal it back. He'd still be the one who created it, but then he needed it for himself.

Or alternatively, a closer model is with Norman Osborne in the first Spider-Man movie. He created the suit and the glider for OsCorp. However, he ended up stealing it from them, albeit for his own evil purposes. If Pym were the one who invented the Ant-Man suit, he might have no choice but to steal it to rescue someone or carry out something if he is under duress.

This is really the only way I can think of for Wright to have the best of both worlds and do the story he wants to do, but still use Pym as all the fans want him to do. Of course, if he is stubborn and still wants to use Lang at all costs, then he's too narrow minded. But Marvel usually have a way of blending two characters, as they did with Whiplash in IM2.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:36 AM   #187
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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WAIT A SECOND, SHUT THE FRONT DOOR! Erik said in Thor that SHILED had a "scientist'" technology (thought to be Pym's). This totally goes with Dark Raven's story of him stealing it back.
I'm now 30% sure that the film will have Pym/*sigh* Lang stealing his Ant Man tech back from SHIELD.
Someone pointed out during Thor filming --- might've been Skarsgard, IIRC --- that the actual name "Hank Pym" was supposed to be used during that dialogue --- i.e., that Selvig had a scientist friend whose stuff had been taken by SHIELD.

The thing about going this route, though, is that it would tend to indicate that SHIELD has already created at least one "Ant-Man." If they took Pym's tech/suit, they wouldn't just leave it on a shelf to gather dust.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:48 AM   #188
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I think Erik Selvig said he had a friend that he was going to email that had had previous "experience" with S.H.I.E.L.D which was a reference to Pym. Selvig said it after Jane's equimpment was taken by S.H.I.E.L.D but I don't think it necessarily implies that S.H.I.E.L.D took Pym's research or equipment.

The scene was deleted anyway so it might not have any bearing for the Ant-Man film.

I could see Erik Selvig making a cameo in Ant-Man seeing as he knows Pym if they do go with that Thor scene though.

I actually like the idea of Hank Pym having worked with S.H.I.E.L.D in the past on a project (possibly Pym Particles?) but having quit after some villains tried to steal his work which lead somehow to his wife Maria getting killed. Pym becomes Ant-Man and tracks down his wifes killers on his own. S.H.I.E.L.D are impressed with Pym tracking down and defeating the villains singe handedly and rehire him.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:51 AM   #189
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Someone pointed out during Thor filming --- might've been Skarsgard, IIRC --- that the actual name "Hank Pym" was supposed to be used during that dialogue --- i.e., that Selvig had a scientist friend whose stuff had been taken by SHIELD.

The thing about going this route, though, is that it would tend to indicate that SHIELD has already created at least one "Ant-Man." If they took Pym's tech/suit, they wouldn't just leave it on a shelf to gather dust.
Like Oscorp had created more than one Green Goblin suit?

Why should it be that SHIELD have created more than one? If Pym has just created a prototype, and then has to steal it, there's no issue of there being more than one Ant-Man or gathering dust. He can steal it not long after it has been produced. Either he has to steal it for someone else (under duress) or he steals it for himself because he needs it to carry out a mission (again under duress or to rescue someone) and that is the only thing available. However, he doesn't have direct access to it because it is under lock and key as it is a SHIELD (or government) sanctioned suit.

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:00 AM   #190
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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I think Erik Selvig said he had a friend that he was going to email that had had previous "experience" with S.H.I.E.L.D which was a reference to Pym. Selvig said it after Jane's equimpment was taken by S.H.I.E.L.D but I don't think it necessarily implies that S.H.I.E.L.D took Pym's research or equipment.

The scene was deleted anyway so it might not have any bearing for the Ant-Man film.
The scene wasn't deleted, just Selvig actually saying Pym's name.

This is the quote of him referencing Banner & Pym

Selvig: I knew this scientist. A pioneer in gamma radiation. SHIELD showed up and.. um.. he wasn't heard from again.

Jane: They're not going to do that to us. I'm going to get everything back.

Selvig: Let me contact one of my colleagues, he's had some dealing with these people before. I'll email him and maybe he can help...

Darcy: They took your laptop, too..

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:20 AM   #191
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I haven't watched Thor in a while. So my minds a bit fuzzy.

The scientist who Selvig never heard again was from Banner and the old colleague who had dealings with SHIELD was Pym.

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:35 AM   #192
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Default Re: The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread

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Like Oscorp had created more than one Green Goblin suit?

Why should it be that SHIELD have created more than one? If Pym has just created a prototype, and then has to steal it, there's no issue of there being more than one Ant-Man or gathering dust. He can steal it not long after it has been produced. Either he has to steal it for someone else (under duress) or he steals it for himself because he needs it to carry out a mission (again under duress or to rescue someone) and that is the only thing available. However, he doesn't have direct access to it because it is under lock and key as it is a SHIELD (or government) sanctioned suit.
I didn't mean necessarily that SHIELD would've created more than one; I meant that if SHIELD took the suit/helmet/tech, they would've had *somebody* using it already. In other words, there'd already be a SHIELD-sanctioned "Ant-Man" in operation that Hank Pym would have to steal from. And it would beg the question as to why Fury didn't use that Ant-Man during Avengers or any of the other movies, when being a 30-foot giant or even a micro-hero would've been at least as "useful" as Hawkeye's two dozen arrows and Black Widow's twin 9mms.

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Old 02-10-2013, 10:00 AM   #193
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I didn't mean necessarily that SHIELD would've created more than one; I meant that if SHIELD took the suit/helmet/tech, they would've had *somebody* using it already. In other words, there'd already be a SHIELD-sanctioned "Ant-Man" in operation that Hank Pym would have to steal from. And it would beg the question as to why Fury didn't use that Ant-Man during Avengers or any of the other movies, when being a 30-foot giant or even a micro-hero would've been at least as "useful" as Hawkeye's two dozen arrows and Black Widow's twin 9mms.
Again, you're assuming Pym has created this suit sometime before. Pym may not have done so until months after the Chitauri incident. If Pym is working for SHIELD, he could've just created a prototype last night and then might be required to steal it. That would mean there is no operative already using it since not enough time has elapsed. And he wouldn't have been around during the Avengers because he hadn't invented it yet.

As I said, it's not that different from Norman Osborne in Spidey 1. He created the suit for Oscorp, showed it to the other directors, they cut him off, he stole it. There was no other Green Goblin running around yet.

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Old 02-10-2013, 04:15 PM   #194
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Again, you're assuming Pym has created this suit sometime before. Pym may not have done so until months after the Chitauri incident. If Pym is working for SHIELD, he could've just created a prototype last night and then might be required to steal it. That would mean there is no operative already using it since not enough time has elapsed. And he wouldn't have been around during the Avengers because he hadn't invented it yet.

As I said, it's not that different from Norman Osborne in Spidey 1. He created the suit for Oscorp, showed it to the other directors, they cut him off, he stole it. There was no other Green Goblin running around yet.
But with Pym being referenced (or quasi-referenced) in Thor 1, it would be reasonable to assume that Selvig was saying that Pym already works for, or has an "in" with, SHIELD. That's in 2011. Ant-Man comes out in 2015. Again, it would be reasonable to assume somebody made an Ant-Man suit within 4-5 years' time.

And *if* there would be a SHIELD-sanctioned Ant-Man already in existence, it would likely have to be Scott Lang, or Eric O'Grady, or even Bill Foster. And that would be awkwardly bass-ackwards to have Hank Pym steal the Ant-Man suit from Scott Lang.

If "To Steal an Ant-Man" is still the main story, I think the Lang connection Wright originally dreamed up still works; it's just that there's no need to make Pym an old fart. No reason his antics (pun -- HA) couldn't be modern times instead of the 1960s.

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Old 02-10-2013, 04:25 PM   #195
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WAIT A SECOND, SHUT THE FRONT DOOR! Erik said in Thor that SHILED had a "scientist'" technology (thought to be Pym's). This totally goes with Dark Raven's story of him stealing it back.
I'm now 30% sure that the film will have Pym/*sigh* Lang stealing his Ant Man tech back from SHIELD.
Huh? There was never a quote about scientist "tech" ..... Selvig simply said he has an associate who's had dealings with SHIELD.

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The scene wasn't deleted, just Selvig actually saying Pym's name.

This is the quote of him referencing Banner & Pym

Selvig: I knew this scientist. A pioneer in gamma radiation. SHIELD showed up and.. um.. he wasn't heard from again.

Jane: They're not going to do that to us. I'm going to get everything back.

Selvig: Let me contact one of my colleagues, he's had some dealing with these people before. I'll email him and maybe he can help...

Darcy: They took your laptop, too..
That's a different reference. There was another one which I described above.

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Old 02-10-2013, 04:28 PM   #196
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But with Pym being referenced (or quasi-referenced) in Thor 1, it would be reasonable to assume that Selvig was saying that Pym already works for, or has an "in" with, SHIELD. That's in 2011. Ant-Man comes out in 2015. Again, it would be reasonable to assume somebody made an Ant-Man suit within 4-5 years' time.

And *if* there would be a SHIELD-sanctioned Ant-Man already in existence, it would likely have to be Scott Lang, or Eric O'Grady, or even Bill Foster. And that would be awkwardly bass-ackwards to have Hank Pym steal the Ant-Man suit from Scott Lang.

If "To Steal an Ant-Man" is still the main story, I think the Lang connection Wright originally dreamed up still works; it's just that there's no need to make Pym an old fart. No reason his antics (pun -- HA) couldn't be modern times instead of the 1960s.
Wait .... how does that imply an Ant-Man suit has been created? All it implies is that SHIELD and Pym have met.

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Old 02-10-2013, 08:58 PM   #197
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That scene is in the movie. Literally the only thing we took out were the words “Hank Pym”. It was when Selvig, Darcy, and Jane are on the roof and S.H.I.E.L.D. has just taken all of their stuff. Darcy is complaining about her laptop and Jane is going, “Who the hell are these guys anyway?” Selvig then tells a story, which is clearly alluding to Bruce Banner, that he knew a gamma scientist and this thing happened and S.H.I.E.L.D. came up, which he had never heard of again. Selvig may or may not have all of his facts straight on that, but those are the rumors that go around the science world there. He goes, “I have a friend who has had experiences with these people. Let me email him.” That friend is Hank Pym. But we took out “Hank Pym” because it felt like, “Banner! Hank!” We were just like, “Enough.
That's the quote. Not alluding to the suit or Pym Particles at all.

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Old 02-10-2013, 11:20 PM   #198
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Wait .... how does that imply an Ant-Man suit has been created? All it implies is that SHIELD and Pym have met.
The fact that (a) Hank Pym allegedly created the suit and Ant-Man persona back in the 1960s, in Joe Cornish's first draft of Edgar Wright's movie; and (b) anyone who knows Hank Pym at all knows him as Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket.

It's highly unlikely that SHIELD would've taken any interest, good or evil, in Hank Pym at all if he *wasn't* developing superhero-ey stuff.

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Old 02-11-2013, 04:41 PM   #199
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I'm not sure how the 60s script could work.

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:03 PM   #200
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i'm extremely happy that Edgar Wright wants to use Scott Lang. he's been my favorite character for a long time. he's probably my favorite Ant-Man, as well; followed by Eric O'Grady. 'To Steal An Ant-Man' was a great story, as well. i wonder if they'll create a new villain or use Darren Cross.

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