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Old 11-09-2012, 03:29 PM   #126
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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And where do you think part of the film came from? Singer.
"First Class is the best X-men film ever!!! Thank god Vaughn took the reins from Singer! Keep hack-Singer away from my X-men"

"First Class is the best X-men film ever!!!"
"But it focused only on 1, 2 characters the most?"
"Blame Singer."


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Old 11-09-2012, 03:59 PM   #127
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

FC focused on what was important to the story. Charles,Mags and the start of the school. Thats what it was about. X1 and 2's biggest flaw is that they are not focused on key members of the X Men. Its great on the Wolverine side of things. They both have similar problems and we have yet to see a good X team representation imo.

Im pissed at the way all the villains besides Mags and Stryker have been wasted in every X flick. The Hellfire clubs gone. Sabertooth in X1 sucked. Lady Deathstrike didnt do **** but have a cool fight and look hot. They wasted quite a few important bad guys in all the flicks. All those characters should have been built to continue more then one movie.


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Old 11-09-2012, 04:29 PM   #128
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

^to be honest magneto and stryker have the been the villain of like 4 of 5 x men films lol

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Old 11-09-2012, 04:33 PM   #129
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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^to be honest magneto and stryker have the been the villain of like 4 of 5 x men films lol
Yeah, they have done a great job with Mags in every X flick. Stryker was handled well in X2 but I could care less about him in Origins. Im fine with never seeing him again. The Hellfire club, Sabertooth and Deathstrike were not developed well or set up to be important in future films. Sooner or later that stuff will screw with future film possibilities. They are all fairly important to X Men history.


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Old 11-09-2012, 04:48 PM   #130
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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FC focused on what was important to the story. Charles,Mags and the start of the school. Thats what it was about.
And whose ultimate input do you think it was for FC to focus on Charles and Mags? Singer was there for (most of) FC's production. It's safe to assume that he was very much involved in weaving the Magneto Origins draft with the tale of Xavier and the school.

But we get ungrateful people here lambasting Singer and cherry-picking what they want to blame on him and then bowing down to Vaughn, as if He's the second-coming.

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Old 11-09-2012, 04:54 PM   #131
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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Yeah, they have done a great job with Mags in every X flick. Stryker was handled well in X2 but I could care less about him in Origins. Im fine with never seeing him again. The Hellfire club, Sabertooth and Deathstrike were not developed well or set up to be important in future films. Sooner or later that stuff will screw with future film possibilities. They are all fairly important to X Men history.
they weren't main villains tho they were henchmen in the film verse so it made sense

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Old 11-09-2012, 05:03 PM   #132
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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they weren't main villains tho they were henchmen in the film verse so it made sense
I disagree, its still wasting potential villains who should serve a bigger purpose down the road.


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Old 11-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #133
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

I can't knock the franchise's use of villains too much. It's one of the few franchises in which any villains are actually carried over from film to film.

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Old 11-09-2012, 05:14 PM   #134
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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And whose ultimate input do you think it was for FC to focus on Charles and Mags? Singer was there for (most of) FC's production. It's safe to assume that he was very much involved in weaving the Magneto Origins draft with the tale of Xavier and the school.

But we get ungrateful people here lambasting Singer and cherry-picking what they want to blame on him and then bowing down to Vaughn, as if He's the second-coming.
Just opinions. I disagree with some of Singers takes on characters and dont think its cherry picking. People swear Singer can do no wrong as well. Both flicks have problems and have room for franchise improvement imo. I like alot of what Singer brought in X2, theres just alot I dont like as well. I really think he was just starting to understand the characters and would have brought something really cool in a third. Looking forward to what happens in DOFP.

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I can't knock the franchise's use of villains too much. It's one of the few franchises in which any villains are actually carried over from film to film.
Magneto and Mystique are really the only ones carried over.

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Old 11-09-2012, 05:27 PM   #135
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

I should clarify. I can't knock Singer's use of villains too much. Magneto, Mystique, and Stryker are the ones carried over. That's three villains, which is more than almost any of the other major franchises combined since... Superman the Movie??? While I agree I would have liked more development for Sabretooth, and dislike the seeming loss of Deathstryke, I can't say I'm sorry to see the likes of Toad go. Not everyone need survive, in the event Fox tries to beat a dead horse with X-Men 25. Given when the franchise was first produced (1998?), I'm just thankful they didn't take a Burton/Schumacher approach and ditch each villain with each movie.

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Old 11-09-2012, 05:29 PM   #136
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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Yeah, they have done a great job with Mags in every X flick. Stryker was handled well in X2 but I could care less about him in Origins. Im fine with never seeing him again. The Hellfire club, Sabertooth and Deathstrike were not developed well or set up to be important in future films. Sooner or later that stuff will screw with future film possibilities. They are all fairly important to X Men history.
I definitely agree The Hellfire Club was wasted. Especially when you consider they are trying to build a proper saga, a franchise. But there is some potential to revive it further down the line with other members (as in the comics) if they wanted.

As for Deathstrike and Sabretooth, they could have been made more of those characters too (although we did get also get Sabretooth in Origins), but I'm not so bothered, because it would mean more Wolverine in order for those characters to reappear. And I think we have enough Wolverine. Personally, I'm okay with what we got from Deathstrike and Sabretooth, to be honest.

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Old 11-09-2012, 05:31 PM   #137
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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And whose ultimate input do you think it was for FC to focus on Charles and Mags? Singer was there for (most of) FC's production. It's safe to assume that he was very much involved in weaving the Magneto Origins draft with the tale of Xavier and the school.

But we get ungrateful people here lambasting Singer and cherry-picking what they want to blame on him and then bowing down to Vaughn, as if He's the second-coming.
I don't think the reaction is as harsh as that, it's just people discussing things and expressing some disappointment that favourite characters either haven't appeared, or only appeared as on-time henchmen.

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Old 11-09-2012, 05:32 PM   #138
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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I should clarify. I can't knock Singer's use of villains too much. Magneto, Mystique, and Stryker are the ones carried over. That's three villains, which is more than almost any of the other major franchises combined since... Superman the Movie??? While I agree I would have liked more development for Sabretooth, and dislike the seeming loss of Deathstryke, I can't say I'm sorry to see the likes of Toad go. Not everyone need survive, in the event Fox tries to beat a dead horse with X-Men 25. Given when the franchise was first produced (1998?), I'm just thankful they didn't take a Burton/Schumacher approach and ditch each villain with each movie.
I agree with Magneto. I was stoked they didnt kill him. It comes down to potential of characters with me and theres alot with Deathstrike and Sabertooth. Would have liked to see more of them they were litteraly mindless characters and the Hellfire Club seemed too short lived and small in comparsion to all the comics Ive read. IF they keep killing characters like that then they will be forced to do Sinister and AOA soon. I really like those characters so I think its sucks when they get adapted into mindless mutes.

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I definitely agree The Hellfire Club was wasted. Especially when you consider they are trying to build a proper saga, a franchise. But there is some potential to revive it further down the line with other members (as in the comics) if they wanted.
Yeah, I just saw a big missed chance with that. They could have done alot more.


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Old 11-09-2012, 06:13 PM   #139
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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Just opinions. I disagree with some of Singers takes on characters and dont think its cherry picking. People swear Singer can do no wrong as well. Both flicks have problems and have room for franchise improvement imo. I like alot of what Singer brought in X2, theres just alot I dont like as well. I really think he was just starting to understand the characters and would have brought something really cool in a third. Looking forward to what happens in DOFP.
I really shouldn't have quoted that post. For the confusion, I apologize!

My intent was for people who are sooo fundamentally against Singer coming back, even with the knowledge that Singer was a big part of the success First Class.

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Old 11-09-2012, 06:20 PM   #140
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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Agreed. I really hope they don't give one character most of the focus. That has been the main flaw in all of these films. In the main series, it was Wolverine. In XM:FC, Magneto. Everyone should have some type to develop as a character, even if some do more than others.
Personally, I'm fine with the films focusing on a character or a very small selection of characters. X2 did a good job juggling an ensemble and giving everyone a chance to shine, but I'm just more interested in one or a few strongly realised characters and their relationships, even if the rest of the cast may suffer in comparison. X2 for me doesn't have the relationships anywhere as compelling as Charles/Erik in X1 and FC or Wolverine/Rogue in X1; Pyro's arc in X2 is not anywhere near as powerful as Erik's arc in First Class.

I think that the last Star Trek reboot handled its characters brilliantly and overall better than any X-Men movie. It had the Kirk/Spock story at the heart of it and Spock by far had the most powerful and emotional arc of all the characters in the film, but it also gave the supporting characters their chance to shine and make an impression, without necessarily giving them their own mini-arcs or hours of screentime or making them a focus.


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Old 11-09-2012, 10:07 PM   #141
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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I really shouldn't have quoted that post. For the confusion, I apologize!

My intent was for people who are sooo fundamentally against Singer coming back, even with the knowledge that Singer was a big part of the success First Class.
No worries man, Singer def came up with the idea of XMFC. Im glad we got his sort of hybrid of First Class and Magnetos origin instead of just one or the other. I thought the idea was horrible when I first heard about it but it turned out quite good. I think Vaughn is responsible for a majority of the film, and its feels much different then Singers flicks imo. But it was def an idea formed by Singer and wouldnt exist without him.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:22 PM   #142
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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Pyro's arc in X2 is not anywhere near as powerful as Erik's arc in First Class.
You completely misunderstood what I said. I was using Pyro as an example to show how supporting characters can have meaningful arcs too, with an intelligent script. Is Erik a supporting character in FC? No, I guess he's not. Of course Erik's arc is more powerful, if he's a protagonist.

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I think that the last Star Trek reboot handled its characters brilliantly and overall better than any X-Men movie.
I really didn't care at all about Star Trek, and I can't see how they handled characters that were not either Spock or Kirk better than the multitude of characters in X2. X2 had at least ten characters, between protagonists and supporting, handled extremely well, even in short scenes. I didn't see anything similar to that in Star Trek, not by a long shot.

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Old 11-10-2012, 12:21 AM   #143
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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You completely misunderstood what I said. I was using Pyro as an example to show how supporting characters can have meaningful arcs too, with an intelligent script. Is Erik a supporting character in FC? No, I guess he's not. Of course Erik's arc is more powerful, if he's a protagonist.
My post was not a response to your post or what you've said about Pyro. I was just saying that I'd rather see a movie focus on a character or a few main characters rather than spread its focus too much and spend time on mini-arcs like Pyro's. I didn't find it all that meaningful and if it was gone from X2 altogether I honestly wouldn't miss it. I'd rather the movie spend time on beefing up other characters.


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Old 11-10-2012, 06:33 AM   #144
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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I was just saying that I'd rather see a movie focus on a character or a few main characters rather than spread its focus too much and spend time on mini-arcs like Pyro's. I didn't find it all that meaningful and if it was gone from X2 altogether I honestly wouldn't miss it. I'd rather the movie spend time on beefing up other characters.
I think it's risky not to give any development to secondary characters. You could end up with cardboard cut-outs in the background who have no substance whatsoever.

I thought the mini-arcs in X2 - Pyro defecting to the Brotherhood, the Storm/Nightcrawler faith thing, Iceman coming out - were pretty good. I was fine with the non-development of Colossus and Deathstrike in that film, partly because I was expecting more from Colossus in the next movie.

In X1, we learned little or nothing about Toad or Sabretooth (and only a line about Mystique) and it worked fine for an introduction. The X-Men themselves were characterised fine for an introductory film.

I think in First Class, some of the characters were a bit insubstantial - namely Emma, Banshee and Havok. I don't think much more was necessary from the other secondary roles (Angel, Azazel, Riptide) but Emma, Banshee and Havok deserved a bit more depth, especially as they are classic characters from the comics. Just a couple of sentences of dialogue each would have done it, nothing major or massive that would take up any screentime or make the move more than a minute longer.

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Old 11-10-2012, 07:50 AM   #145
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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I think in First Class, some of the characters were a bit insubstantial - namely Emma, Banshee and Havok. I don't think much more was necessary from the other secondary roles (Angel, Azazel, Riptide) but Emma, Banshee and Havok deserved a bit more depth, especially as they are classic characters from the comics. Just a couple of sentences of dialogue each would have done it, nothing major or massive that would take up any screentime or make the move more than a minute longer.
I couldn't agree more!

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Old 11-10-2012, 07:58 AM   #146
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

Emma was suspose to be the white queen version of character.That was preGeneration
X version of Emma with her seconary mutation Included.She was cross between
Mystique from earlier trilogy and the sexy Bad Bond girl.

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Old 11-10-2012, 08:25 AM   #147
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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I couldn't agree more!
totally agree too. Emma was a poor character. I think Matthew didnt do a decent job with her at all. So if I have one thing to blame him about, its Emma.

I think HAvok and Banshee were fine, could have done a bit more, for sure, but I think it was a pretty fine introduction to both and Im sure they will get more development in next sequels, so Im not worried.

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Old 11-10-2012, 08:27 AM   #148
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

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totally agree too. Emma was a poor character. I think Matthew didnt do a decent job with her at all. So if I have one thing to blame him about, its Emma.

I think HAvok and Banshee were fine, could have done a bit more, for sure, but I think it was a pretty fine introduction to both and Im sure they will get more development in next sequels, so Im not worried.
Especially if Havok and Banshee are told they are dead in the future, blasted to bits by Sentinels. That would give the younger versions more of a stake in the story.

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Old 11-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #149
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

yeah, that would be a really interesting scene. Something totally new to the franchise. No character has learnt that he will die or are death on the future, so Bryan should adress it.

If a supposed x-man/woman comes from the future, the 60's x-men will have many questions, so I reallly hope Bryan give them a good scene showing those concerns

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Old 11-10-2012, 12:42 PM   #150
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Part 1

I think someone's said it before but it would be good to see the time traveller react emotionally when they saw someone who was dead in the future alive again. The same way kitty reacted to seeing nightcrawler in the comics. It could only work with Prof X, magneto, Beast and magneto though as they're the only ones that the time traveller (no matter who he/she is) would have known. Of that four I see it being beast and I would just love to see the young beast's expression to hearing about his death

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