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Old 08-02-2013, 01:34 AM   #126
BenKenobi
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Default Re: The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
In response to some of Ben Kenobi's post:

-You made a great point about bringing Anakin in as a pilot hired to fly Qui Gonn, etc. to Coruscant. I would've liked that more. I preferred an older Anakin in TPM anyway. Though I probably would've switched Tatoonine for Corellia instead. In part because I would've liked to have seen more Star Wars worlds. And I would've switched Alderaan for Naboo. It would've been nice to see more of that world. It perhaps could've added more resonance to Episode IV and been some dreadful foreshadowing of what was to come.
I agree too that Alderaan should have been Naboo, but I was trying to make small suggestions without entirely rewriting the script. Things that a second editor could have pointed out, but yeah we're totally on the same page.

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-I don't quite agree with you about Palpatine not wanting the treaty signed. You make some good points though about how it might not have made sense for him to want the treaty to be signed. However if Padme had folded and signed it, I still think he could've engineered a no confidence vote in Valorum using the chancellor's inability to prevent the Trade Federation from forcing Naboo to sign the treaty.
That's not a sound plan, if they "negotiated" then the treaty is legal and it would be very difficult to argue that point. Not to mention Palpatine did some other stupid things like sending Darth Maul after the Queen? Was he going to use her death as an example? Maybe but it's never stated or implied so we don't know. He also handled it so badly. Again if we were rewriting it, the Empire was made up of Space Nazi's, Palpatine should have been Space Hitler coming to save the galaxy from ruin after the Clone Wars.

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-I too didn't think it made much sense for Dooku to be trying to kill Padme, since she was a strong opponent of the Military Creation Act. What would've made more sense there is for Padme to support the Act. If there had been a Republic military it is doubtful that the Federation would've been able to blockade her planet, so it made no sense for her to be against the act. I think Lucas didn't think that would jibe with her idealism. However I think it would've been great to see Padme unknowingly more complicit in the rise of the Empire too.
Nothing really to add to that. It makes sense why Dooku wanted her dead from the audiences perspective but it makes zero sense from Padme's.

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-I also thought it would've been sweet if the seeds of the Rebellion were actually the defeated Separatists.
It was an easy opportunity. It's a reverse of the revelation in Empire, Obi-Wan is unknowingly on the wrong side and doesn't accept the real heroes offer and in bitter irony the Jedi are responsible for their own fall as well as the Republic's.

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-I also would've not made Dooku a Sith Lord. He was a good Sith Lord. But I liked the idea he floated in AOTC when he was trying to deceive Obi Wan. I think it would've been better if Dooku was actually rebelling against the Republic in a misguided attempt to save it. He would perhaps be a dupe of Palpatine still but for more noble reasons. Or maybe he would just be that one man who could really see what was going on but ultimately powerless to prevent it. And his turning away from the Republic might be better foreshadowing for Anakin's fall.
I agree, if Dooku was able to sway enough Jedi they would look like traitors. Not to mention the way they treated Anakin it would make sense why he sides with Palpatine, believing the whole time he's staying on the good side as he slowly slips to evil. This split in the order would also be a perfect set up for the Obi-Wan/Anakin conflict that finally emerges. Again I feel this was an obvious missed opportunity, had the guy just reread his own work a few times.

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Old 01-07-2014, 06:16 PM   #127
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I'm assuming most of you are familiar with the game changing Machete Order that eliminates Episode I from the viewing experience. Thanks to another great read by accomplished author of the sci-fi/fantasy Kitty Norville series Carrie Vaughn; an extension of the MO known as Carrie Order may actually save everyone the horror of watching Episode II as well!

She praises Machete Order but points out that there is nothing introduced in Episode II that isn't re-introduced in III. So why sit through a dreadful movie when you don't have to? The greatest unexpected benefit? The creepy/dreadful romance of II is now gone from your viewing experience. It's worth a read.

Here's the site in full: http://carriev.wordpress.com/2013/05...machete-order/

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Old 01-10-2014, 06:49 PM   #128
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^^^As much as I do enjoy the prequels, that is an interesting and accurate description of the prequels, and something I've contemplated on now and then (Episodes I and II really aren't needed...I've had this discussion lately with the few SW friends I have--(removing more so Ep. I than II story wise, Ep. II is just dreadful at obvious points)...I may have to view them in that way next time I have a marathon--hard to break a habit though LOL.


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Old 01-10-2014, 07:21 PM   #129
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^^^As much as I do enjoy the prequels, that is an interesting and accurate description of the prequels, and something I've contemplated on now and then (Episodes I and II really aren't needed...I've had this discussion lately with the few SW friends I have--(removing more so Ep. I than II story wise, Ep. II is just dreadful at obvious points)...I may have to view them in that way next time I have a marathon--hard to break a habit though LOL.
I hear you. But it watching them in that order: IV, V, III, VI actually HELPS the storytelling; aside from just eliminating 2 terrible movies. It is actually a blessing that Lucas decided that the 2 dreadful films he made, ultimately aren't needed for the story (especially Ep I which truly offers nothing).

It's worth a watch in that order. It's particularly great if you can watch them in that order with a Star Wars virgin.

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Old 04-17-2014, 05:29 AM   #130
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I think that older star wars fans never understood George Lucas vision for the prequels.

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Old 05-02-2014, 02:07 AM   #131
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I understand his vision, I just think he executed it horribly. As others have said, nothing really important happens in TPM or AOTC. ROTS is massively overrated, though. It has all the same problems of the previous two.

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Old 06-06-2014, 03:16 PM   #132
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There's nothing wrong with overall plot and ideas for the prequels but the execution is horrible. TPM becomes a wasted movie with the 10 year time jump to AOTC, basically undoing anything that happened, leaving the only significant plot development out of TPM to be Palpatine become chancellor and that's pretty much done off screen.

Obi Wan does nothing for the majority of the movie and Anakin is just a kid and a totally different character in AOTC. I think AOTC is probably the worst of the Star Wars movies with this mess of a screenplay, bad acting and 90's CD-Rom game style photography and VFX. The green screen composting is very flat for most scenes.

ROTS is the best of the prequels but it's completely overrated, cramming in a checklist full of plot points just to clue things up. Anakin is never really a character you can latch on to and the way he turns to the darkside , has so little build up that it seems like it was decided the morning of the shoot.

The only scene in the prequels where I felt the same energy as the OT was when Darth Maul attacks Quigon in the desert. Aside from that the editing and direction were terrible, it's as if a character wasn't sitting or just walking Lucas had no idea what to do with them.

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Old 06-06-2014, 03:35 PM   #133
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I'd like to make a point to the people who said that Lucas asked for help with the script on TPM , my understanding of it was that he asked Kasadan a few weeks before filming was supposed to start , at a speaking engagement or something. EP1's script is the only one he put real effort and time into, EP2 and EP3 didn't get a script until filming started and even then there were significant changes in the story through reshoots and editing. What amazes me is that the elevator scene in AOTC was added after the 1st cut of the movie because Lucas realized he needed a scene to introduce Obi Wan and Anakin. I can't even imagine how they were going to be introduced otherwise? The pacing of AOTC is a complete mess, we go from a pretty interesting introduction with the bombing of Padme's ship to coming to a complete halt with a meeting in Palpatine's chamber which is all exposition that doesn't make any sense, especially the stuff about Dooku who the audience hasn't heard anything about or met yet. It's terrible exposition too.

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Old 06-08-2014, 01:44 PM   #134
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When you polish a piece of poo, you'll get the Prequels!

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Old 07-16-2014, 08:53 PM   #135
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I understand his vision, I just think he executed it horribly. As others have said, nothing really important happens in TPM or AOTC. ROTS is massively overrated, though. It has all the same problems of the previous two.
I disagree. I think movies while not perfect it had a lot of hidden means and content that not only improved the original Star Wars but elevated it and gave even more stuff to examine and think about.

I could sit here and just rip you're argument apart and show you but it would take to long. My advice stop being so bitter and angry and let go of you're preconsived notion of what films should have been and really just look at the films as they are.

However I'll throw you a bone. Fans really hated the fact that Lucas changed the ending to Return of the Jedi where we see Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin. However why did he replace the original actor with Hayden Christensen. It was to further that point that when Anakin became Darth Vader the ceased to be Anakin. When he turned back to the good side he became Anakin again. Thus confirming what Yoda said in RoTS that he was no longer Anakin that he had been consumed by Vader.

Tell you what I'll be nice and give you another one. Jar Jar Binks who every one hated was actually the most important character in the first film. He establish so much about what the Jedi order had become and reveled not just a flaw but a major flaw in the Jedi Order.

In Phantom Menace we see the order was it use to be through Qui-Gon and what they order had become through Obi-Wan (though after Phantom Meance Obi takes on some of Qui-Gon beliefs). Qui-Gon trust the force and listen to it and force spoke to him and gave him feeling that Jar Jar Binks would be important; that he couldn't ignore him...guess what he was right. Had he not taken Jar Jar he would never help bring the Gungans and Naboo together and more then likely Padma would been killed and no telling what Anakin fate would been.

Now had Qui-Gon followed the code like he was supposed to he would have left Jar Jar to his own fate and not turn back. However that would have lead to disaster in that it was because of Jar Jar that Gungans and Naboo finally came together. He would never lead Padma to the Gungans hidding spot allowing here to plead with the Gungan leader and thus securing peace between the two sides.

This is just the tip of what I am talking about. I could sit here and write novel that just takes the Star Wars Universe and opens it up in way most of the fans have never even realized because of the prequels. The irony of it all is that it does track with the original films. The only thing that doesn't track is the films verse the books, comics, and video games. However that is only because Lucas didn't take those in to account. He doesn't consider them his vision of what how Star Wars Universe plays out. There are some aspects that are sort of on part with his vision but not completely. He flat stated this in interviews several times.

Now don't get me wrong I don't think the prequels are nearly as good as the original but they are still great movies and well worth watching. Especially if you're like me and like exploring the hidden aspects of the movie that are not as forward as other aspects of the movies.

That is just my opinion any way.

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