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Old 11-26-2013, 05:25 AM   #1
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Default Alan Moore's rantings

http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/11/2...ngers-alarming

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Alan Moore has been talking about the state of superhero comics and films in the 21st century, stating that he no longer likes the genre, and saying that he finds audiences going to see The Avengers in their droves “alarming.”

"I haven't read any superhero comics since I finished with Watchmen,” the writer told The Guardian while promoting his latest work, Fashion Beast. “I hate superheroes. I think they're abominations. They don't mean what they used to mean. They were originally in the hands of writers who would actively expand the imagination of their nine-to-13-year-old audience. That was completely what they were meant to do and they were doing it excellently.

“These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it's nothing to do with them. It's an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men, usually men. Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love of Green Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal.

“This is a significant rump of the superhero-addicted, mainstream-addicted audience. I don't think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it's a rather alarming sign if we've got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s."
Thoughts?

Dumb Question: Is Alan Moore pretty much just like Frank Miller now in terms of insanity?

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Old 11-26-2013, 05:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

He's way worse than Miller

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Old 11-26-2013, 05:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Has Alan Moore read his own comics?

Does he think some of the Superhero comics he wrote such as Batman: The Killing Joke, Watchmen, Miracle Man, The League Of Extraordinary Gentleman or Swamp Thing are appropriate for a 9 to 13 year old audience?

Moore was part of the reason comics became darker, more violent, more serious and generally more adult in general.

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Last edited by chamber-music; 11-26-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

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Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
Has Alan Moore read his own comics?

Does he think some of the Superhero comics he wrote such as Watchmen, Miracle Man, The League Of Extraordinary Gentleman or Swamp Thing are appropriate for a 9 to 13 year old audience?
I think someone's been drinking....

Who knows what set him off.

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Old 11-26-2013, 06:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Grant Morrison said it best: "find it tragic but quite pertinent to this piece that the loudest voice in our business – the one that carries the furthest and is taken most seriously by the mainstream media – is the one that offers nothing but contempt and denunciation, with barely a single good word to say about any of the many accomplished and individual writers currently working in mainstream comics, let alone the wealth of brilliant indie creators.Does he ever, for instance, use his high media profile to do anything other than steer potential readers away from modern comic books and their creators – while over-playing his own achievements and placing himself centre stage at every turn? How hard would it be to say something encouraging, positive, or hopeful about the generally improved standard of writing in all comic books these days? Or at least say nothing at all."

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Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

That is all he said? I expected worse from Moore!

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

I still love the guy. Writing-wise, he's one of my heroes actually. Why?
Because he's Alan Moore!
Watchmen, V For Vendetta, The Killing Joke, LoEG, Promethea, Swamp Thing, From Hell, etc.

The guy's the master. So what if he's become a bit grumpy in his old age? Most people do. Besides, after all he's done for the medium (and the largely terrible way the medium's treated him back) I think he's entitled to it...

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Isn't he still writting things that are not for kids either?

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

I do not think he has even written anything for kids in his life.

After all, he wrote a porno comic with characters from children's lit...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Yeah, he talks a lot about taking other people's works and characters, yet he writes a lot of things that seem more like fan-fiction than anything else

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Originally Posted by childeroland View Post
Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

He complains about how DC has exploited his characters, yet he's made a good dime off works in the public domain with the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...and of course, Lost Girls.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."

Last edited by jonathancrane; 11-26-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

He has a small point about how superheroes aren't that inspirational nowadays but maybe they are not to kids before 16. The Invisibles did change my life in a big bad way, so did V and Watchmen got me interested in politics (to learn about politics not get involved, god forbid) the aren't the industry's fault little snots cannot appreciate good literature(and i mean both comics and actual books), the world is changing, i grew up with Justice League and the Amazing Spiderman kids nowdays grow up with Miley Cyrus.

I appreciate his earnestness and the fact he really doesn't care about money. He is a bitter old man but i still love him. Grant Morrison said it best though.

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Old 11-26-2013, 10:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathancrane View Post
I do not think he has even written anything for kids in his life.

After all, he wrote a porno comic with characters from children's lit...
Which one was that?

As I posted somewhere else, he did Watchmen and I'll throw in V For Vendetta, other than that he's not as great as most worshipping fanboys make him out to be. I do like League, From Hell and the Killing Joke, but there nothing special in my eyes.

He needs to get over himself. All those fanboys who praise him gave him an ego over the years and I love that quote from Morrison basically sticking it to Moore.

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Old 11-26-2013, 10:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

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Originally Posted by Figs View Post
Which one was that?

As I posted somewhere else, he did Watchmen and I'll throw in V For Vendetta, other than that he's not as great as most worshipping fanboys make him out to be. I do like League, From Hell and the Killing Joke, but there nothing special in my eyes.

He needs to get over himself. All those fanboys who praise him gave him an ego over the years and I love that quote from Morrison basically sticking it to Moore.
The title in question is Lost Girls.

Of what I have read from him, I like-

-League
-Watchmen
-From Hell
-Promethea
-V for Vendetta

I hate The Killing Joke.

Excluding the one title, I like his work; I have found his occult based work more enjoyable than his superhero fiction. Don't get me wrong: Watchmen is a masterpiece, but you are correct, he has an ego that fanboys have built up.

Speaking of his other work, I am still waiting for the Moon & Serpent Bumper Book of Magic. It's only been two years since it was supposed to be released.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:00 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jonathancrane View Post
The title in question is Lost Girls.

Of what I have read from him, I like-

-League
-Watchmen
-From Hell
-Promethea
-V for Vendetta

I hate The Killing Joke.

Excluding the one title, I like his work; I have found his occult based work more enjoyable than his superhero fiction. Don't get me wrong: Watchmen is a masterpiece, but you are correct, he has an ego that fanboys have built up.

Speaking of his other work, I am still waiting for the Moon & Serpent Bumper Book of Magic. It's only been two years since it was supposed to be released.
Hahaha, this is a review I found on Amazon for that Lost Girls book.

Quote:
Yes, I know who Alan Moore is. Which is why I was so surprised at how bad this book is. If Julia Child cooked you a meal, you'd expect it to taste good, right? I'm not some prude who is turned off by a little nudity or sexuality, but I don't find that nudity and sexuality alone make a good product, unless your product is pornography. And that's where this book fails. The stories aren't very interesting so it fails to entertain. The illustrations aren't very good so it has no artistic merit. And it's not at all erotic so it fails at being pornographic. It's a collection of awkward stories that seems as if they sprung out of the mind of a 13 year old boy who lacks access to the internet and the wealth of free porn that it provides. What is meant to be erotic is just silly and juvenile. I can't help but wonder if Alan Moore spends his free time peeking up girls' dresses and having "alone time" with the Frederick's of Hollywood lingerie catalog. After works such as Watchmen and V for Vendetta, what happened here? This feels written by a completely different person who lacks the maturity of the author of those other works.

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Old 11-26-2013, 12:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

That is a great (and hilarious) quote/review.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

The Killing Joke is overrated

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Old 11-26-2013, 03:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Wow ! About time for a thread like this.

While this requires a much more substantive post
for now I can only say 2 things..

1) The most recent thing I read by Moore was Neonomicon,
which was pretty much a horror-porn homage to HP Lovecraft.
It was good, but not in the same way that his earlier work was good.

2) Everyone who's said Moore's got to shoulder some responsibility for
the dark tone of superheroes, is exactly right.

He and Frank Miller changed comics in the 80's.

Read Moore's Captain Britain (which I don't think anybody's mentioned yet) or
MIRACLEMAN (TRUST ME if you haven't read MiracleMan # 15, you have not seen superhero destruction , it makes the end of MOS look like an episode
of Sesame street) look it up people.

Keith Giffen's work on JL in the 80's was almost a reaction against what
Moore was doing.


Old and bitter would describe him, although I will always be a fan of what he achieved back in the 80's. Those one-shot GL stories are pure-gold, Killing Joke pushed the boundaries pretty damn far, Mortal Clay was both sad and funny at the same time, and "For the Man who has Everything" is probably the best one-shot Superman story ever.

So, big ups to Moore, always an immortal giant of comics,

It's true, he's been treated badly by the comic book industry a few times,
in a legal sense, but really he needs to take a leaf out of Neil Gaiman's book (nicest guy in the world and Moore's equal in my estimation) and .....

a) not be so damn precious about his work being adapted for screen.
e.g. Stardust had to change significantly for the screen and Gaiman was
all good with it, and participated in the process. Result, a very enjoyable film.

b) get over himself.

If he's unwilling to participate in the process, he really shouldn't raise too much fuss, when someone else

In fact, if he simply refused to comment on adaptations, that would probably speak much louder than his rants.

He's still the man, just a bitter man.

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Old 11-26-2013, 06:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
1) The most recent thing I read by Moore was Neonomicon,
which was pretty much a horror-porn homage to HP Lovecraft.
It was good, but not in the same way that his earlier work was good.
No...just no...



I've heard it all now. As if it wasn't bad enough that a lot of people/kids call just about every horror film under the sun "torture porn" but now there's horror-porn? What in the F*** is that even supposed to mean?

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Old 11-26-2013, 06:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

There are sexual overtones in Lovecraft's work, make no mistake. The absence of sexuality imbues the creatures with the missing power: like the Sarlacc in the Star Wars trilogy - another case of weird repression of sexuality-it does not take a psychologist to figure out what Cthulu is supposed to represent (and note how he is defeated....)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Alan Moore is a pretentious, cantankerous douchebag, who forgets that he is ultimately, a comic book writer. He's not Voltaire or Milton. He became famous for writing vaguely thematic, and philosophical superhero (Yes, LXG and Watchmen are still Superheroes) stories, and suddenly he's bashing everyone/ everything associated with them.

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Old 11-27-2013, 03:26 AM   #22
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figs View Post
No...just no...



I've heard it all now. As if it wasn't bad enough that a lot of people/kids call just about every horror film under the sun "torture porn" but now there's horror-porn? What in the F*** is that even supposed to mean?

First, chill out. No, I re-phrase, chill the **** out. I mean no disrespect, but you seem to be overreacting

second. In no way am I advocating for, against, or take any other position on pornography. It exists, and that is all I will say on the matter.

Third, and most relevant to your comic, if you want to know what I mean
by horror-porn read Neonomicon and find out (unless you are under the age of 16, then don't read it). If it does not meet the criteria that you might consider horror porn, or it seems an inaccurate label, by all means post so,
and come up with a better one.

fourth Alan Moore's "Lost Girls" is porn, he expressly states that, so Moore is no stranger to that particular form of expression

I read it because I was an HP Lovecraft fan many years ago. While Moore incorporates some elements of the Cthulhu mythos, in an interesting interpretation, my feeling was that he was more going for shock value,
as opposed to a fresh and creative approach. IMO.

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Old 11-27-2013, 05:01 AM   #23
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

How was cthulhu defeated?

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: Alan Moore's rantings

IF he hasn't read any superhero books since he wrote Watchmen why the hell is he talking down on the modern scene?

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Old 11-27-2013, 07:39 AM   #25
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How was cthulhu defeated?
Ramming him with a boat puts him into a regenerative/dreaming state, which is really the most man could ever hope to do against the cosmic horrors of the universe.

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