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Old 03-01-2013, 08:10 PM   #851
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Well, considering my friends put almost 100% of what they make BACK into growing their business. It would be nice if they had more $$$ to do that...instead they are holding off right now on the hiring. They could easily use another 4 people in their business, but it's not going to happen right now.
Let's say they make exactly 1M, not renewing the Bush Tax cuts over 400k means they would lose out on 26.4K. I am not even sure that is enough to hire 1 person Full time

Also any money the store puts back into the business, can't they write that off when it comes to tax time? basically if your friends are making over 400k for a new business after they write off all the expenses the business has, more power to them but they doing good for a small business.


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Old 03-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #852
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Let's say they make exactly 1M, not renewing the Bush Tax cuts over 400k means they would lose out on 26.4K. I am not even sure that is enough to hire 1 person Full time

Also any money the store puts back into the business, can't they write that off when it comes to tax time? basically if your friends are making over 400k for a new business after they write off all the expenses the business has, more power to them but they doing good for a small business.
To a point yes, but um....they also need to eat, pay their car payments, house note, I don't know.......maybe a movie now and then...

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:29 PM   #853
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The payroll taxes were also a temporary tax decrease. In that case they went back to the norm on Jan 1

Using my money analogy from above it would be like me making a deal giving you 5 bucks a day for a week. Then taking that completely away the next week, then saying I am somehow screwing you out of 5 bucks because last week i was getting 5 bucks more.

If you notice the Republicans didn't even put up a fight for the payroll tax going back to normal like they did for millionaires and billionaires.
Using your example above, what are the Bush tax cuts then?

I will answer it for you....just the same as this.

Did Obama fight for the payroll tax cut extension? He could have signed an executive order.

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:30 PM   #854
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To a point yes, but um....they also need to eat, pay their car payments, house note, I don't know.......maybe a movie now and then...
I am pretty sure they can do all that with the money they earn that does get the old bush tax cuts under 400k unless they decided to buy a mansion and a porsche.

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Using your example above, what are the Bush tax cuts then?

I will answer it for you....just the same as this.
Actually if you go to the previous page you would see I agree.

The only difference is once the Bush Tax cuts expired, they voted and and renewed most of them again, which by definition would be a tax decrease(and a permanent one at that since this time it's not temporary)

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #855
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But Kelly is right, he lied. Everyone's taxes went up. He didn't say he would keep your pay the same. He said your taxes wouldn't go up....they did.

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:38 PM   #856
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But Kelly is right, he lied. Everyone's taxes went up. He didn't say he would keep your pay the same. He said your taxes wouldn't go up....they did.
When Obama gave the payroll tax cut, he specifically said he was doing it for a couple years as a stimulus procedure(at least that was the assumption i was under). The payroll tax cut and Bush tax cut though are 2 different temporary tax cuts.

It should be pointed out I personally found the payroll tax cuts very irresponsible since those payroll taxes fund social security

All that being said I think one problem many may see is they expected the temporary Bush tax cuts to become permanent(I am guessing that was the original intention when first created but they couldn't get them pass if they were permanent) while I don't think anybody expected the payroll tax cut to stick beyond the period it was created for. All that being said I do think expecting something that is temporary will be permanent is wrong which is the assumption Republicans are making when they say we already increased taxes


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Old 03-01-2013, 09:11 PM   #857
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No they haven't increased taxes. The Bush tax cuts were temporary, which by definition means there is a set date they will run out and we go back to the norm. Once they ran out, they renewed most of the taxes and if I am correct instead of them being temporary like they have been up till this point for the last 10 years they are now permanent and law. By definition that is a Tax decrease because a new law was put into place to decrease taxes on the first 400k. By the Republicans claiming that a temporary tax cut ending but renewing many parts of it is actually a tax increase and not a tax decrease is a bunch of BS.

It would be like if I decided to give you 5 dollars a day for a week and at the end of the week when that deal ran out I decided to give you 4 dollars a day from that point on. I am not taking 1 dollar away from you I am still giving you 4 dollars. Now if you want to whine and cry that it's not as good as before when I was giving you 5 dollars fine, but simple fact when I renew my deal with you, you are gaining 4 dollars.
Are you serious that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire on those making $400,000 doesn't count?

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The payroll taxes were also a temporary tax decrease. In that case they went back to the norm on Jan 1.
I'll give you that one at least. The payroll tax cut was always meant to be a temporary decrease as opposed the Bush tax cuts which were designed to be permanent when they were created but had an expiration date to compromise with the Democrats.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:14 PM   #858
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He may "look down" on the GOP and any work he does with them is out of necessity or obligation, but that's better when a large enough plurality of House Republicans, enough that can derail the governance of our country, look on working with the POTUS as akin to treason and consider him not only inferior, but to be a usurper, a communist, statist, and whatever other ist they heard Glenn Beck tell them to stupidly think.

That is a huge problem.
Obama's attitude towards the GOP has always been "**** 'em, we have the votes" right from the get go. It's bitten him in the ass now that they actually have power.

And do you seriously think that Glenn Beck holds any sway over mainstream Republicans? The guy is considered to be a joke who got fired from Fox News for being a looney.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:17 PM   #859
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Obama's attitude towards the GOP has always been "**** 'em, we have the votes" right from the get go. It's bitten him in the ass now that they actually have power.

And do you seriously think that Glenn Beck holds any sway over mainstream Republicans? The guy is considered to be a joke who got fired from Fox News for being a looney.

sir, he was fired for telling the truth and--lulululululz. I couldn't finish the sentence.

Now Beck is trying to get in on the LP.

Also, we're doomed. President Obama signed exec order on the budget cuts. $85B cuts begins now. the sky is going to fall. I mean: the sky is going to fall.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:20 PM   #860
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sir, he was fired for telling the truth and--lulululululz. I couldn't finish the sentence.
Glenn Beck is a clown with a massive ego. That's why he got fired. He's not a truth teller, he's a crazy person a notch below Alex Jones who takes advantage of his listeners.

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Now Beck is trying to get in on the LP.
Yeah, that will go great, why don't they accept Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, and Alex Jones as well

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:23 PM   #861
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Glenn Beck is a clown with a massive ego. That's why he got fired. He's not a truth teller, he's a crazy person a notch below Alex Jones who takes advantage of his listeners.

Yeah, that will go great, why don't they accept Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, and Alex Jones as well


What part of lulululululz don't you understand?

Bro, I don't have any power in the LP. So sadly, I can't tell Beck to shove off.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:50 PM   #862
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What part of lulululululz don't you understand?

Bro, I don't have any power in the LP. So sadly, I can't tell Beck to shove off.
I thought the lululululuz were directed towards me. Sorry.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #863
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Are you serious that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire on those making $400,000 doesn't count?
The Bush tax cuts were temporary tax cuts, by definition temporary means they aren't permanent so when they expired it's not like the government increased taxes, it was a case the temporary tax cuts expired.

Now maybe the Republican felt entitled to having those temporary tax cuts be permanent but fact is they never were so when they expired then parts were renewed, those renewed parts are a tax cut by definition. By acting like they are entitled to tax cuts that in my opinion should never have happened in the first place shows me the Republicans have no clue what the word temporary means

I personally look at both the Bush Tax Cuts and Payroll tax cuts int he same way basically. Both were always temporary cuts that when expired we either had a choice to let them expire or renew them. By letting them expire though isn't a tax increase(or at least a bill that would increase taxes) it's just letting them expire. Simple fact is after the Bush Tax Cut mess of the past 10+ years we are still left with a lower tax rate then before the temporary tax cuts were put in effect and isn't that to the Republicans advantage(of coarse they want more and it's not enough for them)?


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Old 03-02-2013, 12:35 AM   #864
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If you actually think Glenn Beck has any pull with a good number of Republicans, then you are delusional. They'll talk to him if he's near or calls, but I doubt any base their votes on what his reaction will be. He's really a nobody in D.C.
I was being hyperbolic. However, the talk radio crowd does have pull with the Tea Party caucus and all those who are inclined to do things like, say, call the president a liar during an address to Congress, bring Ted Nugent to the State of the Union, give a non-committal answer on whether the president was born an American citizen or refuse to vote for anything the POTUS wants on purely ideological reasoning. Yes, that mindset is very much around.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:52 AM   #865
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The Tea Party definitely has influence, though how much is debatable. For all the lip service the Republican establishment gives the group, they still somehow ended up with Mitt Romney, a Mormon, that a lot of Tea Party types dismissed as a New England "RINO".

On the other hand, Romney had to pander so much to the religious right- the Tea Party that it actually started hurting him with moderates.

He did throw Todd Aiken under the bus. But then they did try to get Billy Graham's support, even though his website called Romney's church a cult.

Odd bedfellows to say the least.

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Old 03-02-2013, 02:02 AM   #866
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Boehnor is a moderate. Something as fringe and ideological as the GOP base just doesn't play well in a general national election. However, it can play very well in local races and some state ones. Hence the influx of the Tea Party in 2010 which has remained a large enough voting bloc in the GOP House between the true believers and those like Eric Cantor who believe their political fortune is written by hitching a ride with the zealots. This gives them enough sway to, say, tie the Speaker's hands and force him into a recalcitrant position of no deals.

It is one of the driving factors of the House. It has been for over two years.

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Old 03-02-2013, 02:16 AM   #867
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I like what Bill Maher said about the sequester and automatic cuts.

"It is like having an inability to diet so you rig the fridge to explode if you open the door."

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Old 03-02-2013, 11:48 AM   #868
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Boehnor is a moderate. Something as fringe and ideological as the GOP base just doesn't play well in a general national election. However, it can play very well in local races and some state ones. Hence the influx of the Tea Party in 2010 which has remained a large enough voting bloc in the GOP House between the true believers and those like Eric Cantor who believe their political fortune is written by hitching a ride with the zealots. This gives them enough sway to, say, tie the Speaker's hands and force him into a recalcitrant position of no deals.

It is one of the driving factors of the House. It has been for over two years.
I have zero respect for John Boehner. The sooner he and Mitch McConnell leave DC, the better. (It'll never happen unless they retire though given how heavily, heavily, heavily republican their home districts are.)

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Old 03-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #869
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As long as they take Reid and Pelosi with them, adios....they are not the only problems in leadership in our Congress, far from it.


The President can hitch a ride out of town with them as well....5 less people in Washington = 5 less whiners, *****ers, and money grabbing *******s. : )

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:01 PM   #870
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I have zero respect for John Boehner. The sooner he and Mitch McConnell leave DC, the better. (It'll never happen unless they retire though given how heavily, heavily, heavily republican their home districts are.)
I actually feel sorry for Boehner, he is basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trying to organize the Republican house is sort of like hearding cats. I personally don't blame him for all the issues

The only solution and this will never happen to finding a better house speaker is if like 40-100 house republicans decide enough is enough and make a deal withe the Democrats to find a speaker that would be more willing to compromise(and together they vote for somebody either Rep or Dem)

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #871
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The Bush tax cuts were temporary tax cuts, by definition temporary means they aren't permanent so when they expired it's not like the government increased taxes, it was a case the temporary tax cuts expired.

Now maybe the Republican felt entitled to having those temporary tax cuts be permanent but fact is they never were so when they expired then parts were renewed, those renewed parts are a tax cut by definition. By acting like they are entitled to tax cuts that in my opinion should never have happened in the first place shows me the Republicans have no clue what the word temporary means

I personally look at both the Bush Tax Cuts and Payroll tax cuts int he same way basically. Both were always temporary cuts that when expired we either had a choice to let them expire or renew them. By letting them expire though isn't a tax increase(or at least a bill that would increase taxes) it's just letting them expire. Simple fact is after the Bush Tax Cut mess of the past 10+ years we are still left with a lower tax rate then before the temporary tax cuts were put in effect and isn't that to the Republicans advantage(of coarse they want more and it's not enough for them)?
You're basically just telling yourself that to fit your narrative that the Republicans will not budge on taxes despite the contrary that they already have. The Bush tax cuts were designed to be permanent, hell the rates the Bush tax cuts for those making under $400,000 are staying in place. Even Obama himself promoted allowing the expiration of the Bush tax cuts as a tax increase.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #872
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I have zero respect for John Boehner. The sooner he and Mitch McConnell leave DC, the better. (It'll never happen unless they retire though given how heavily, heavily, heavily republican their home districts are.)
I think that if the Democrats nominate someone that is not Ashley Judd, they'd have a good chance at getting rid of McConnell. With the momentum that Judd has right now, it really looks like the Democrats have the exact same problem as the Republicans where the loud vocal minority primary voters are pushing away the moderate majority.

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I actually feel sorry for Boehner, he is basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trying to organize the Republican house is sort of like hearding cats. I personally don't blame him for all the issues
I don't feel sorry for Boehner at all. The man needs to get a better hold on his caucus. He doesn't need to rule the GOP with an iron fist the way Pelosi rules the Democrats, but actually getting some control over these clowns is necessary. The Republicans need a leader to shut up people like Alan West and Michelle Bachmann when they say something idiotic, they need a leader who has the balls to stand up against Rush Limbaugh when he says something disgusting, and they need a leader who is capable of working with the President. We also need a President who can work with the GOP, but well....it works both ways, the Republicans need a guy who can work the guy in charge and Boehner just isn't that man.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #873
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As long as they take Reid and Pelosi with them, adios....they are not the only problems in leadership in our Congress, far from it.


The President can hitch a ride out of town with them as well....5 less people in Washington = 5 less whiners, *****ers, and money grabbing *******s. : )
They can absolutely take Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi with them.

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I actually feel sorry for Boehner, he is basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trying to organize the Republican house is sort of like hearding cats. I personally don't blame him for all the issues

The only solution and this will never happen to finding a better house speaker is if like 40-100 house republicans decide enough is enough and make a deal withe the Democrats to find a speaker that would be more willing to compromise(and together they vote for somebody either Rep or Dem)
I'm from his home district. I feel nothing but contempt for him.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:19 PM   #874
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I think that if the Democrats nominate someone that is not Ashley Judd, they'd have a good chance at getting rid of McConnell. With the momentum that Judd has right now, it really looks like the Democrats have the exact same problem as the Republicans where the loud vocal minority primary voters are pushing away the moderate majority.


I don't feel sorry for Boehner at all. The man needs to get a better hold on his caucus. He doesn't need to rule the GOP with an iron fist the way Pelosi rules the Democrats, but actually getting some control over these clowns is necessary. The Republicans need a leader to shut up people like Alan West and Michelle Bachmann when they say something idiotic, they need a leader who has the balls to stand up against Rush Limbaugh when he says something disgusting, and they need a leader who is capable of working with the President. We also need a President who can work with the GOP, but well....it works both ways, the Republicans need a guy who can work the guy in charge and Boehner just isn't that man.
...agreed and agreed.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:20 PM   #875
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They can absolutely take Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi with them.
I actually find myself more disgusted with Reid than I am with Pelosi. While Pelosi is far more liberal than Reid, she at least acts like a leader within her party and I can't blame her for acting like a minority leader, the same way I can't blame the Republicans for acting like the opposition.

Harry Reid on the other hand has shown that he has no desire to be a leader. He literally does nothing anymore asides fight and blame the Republicans to the point where Boehner walks up to him and tells him to go **** himself.

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