Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfect?

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by Deserana

But this isn't true. Most love it, some think its good but had more potential, few dislike it. This film doesn't have a black or white reaction there is a grey area.

That's what I meant to say. There is a grey area. I wouldn't necessarily say I hated the film either but it's definitely a huge dissapointment. And as The Joker pointed out, BB and TDK never caused as much division between the fans as TDKR did.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

That's what I meant to say. There is a grey area. I wouldn't necessarily say I hated the film either but it's definitely a huge dissapointment. And as The Joker pointed out, BB and TDK never caused as much division between the fans as TDKR did.

Exactly. It's certainly no Spider-Man 3 type scenario. Not with the fans (who generally hated Spider-Man 3 overall) or critically and commercially, as TDKR is very critically successful and financially. Whereas Spider-Man 3 made a huge drop critically compared to it's predecessors.

It's just among the fans there's clearly a split on it. We never had this much disagreement about the movie compared to BB and TDK. Sure there was people who disliked certain aspects of each movie, but they were a drop in the ocean.

Those TDK days were some of my favorites on here. Nearly everyone was ecstatic. When it hit the billion mark at the box office I swear I could hear champagne corks popping in every Batman fan's house across the world lol.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

I'm not talking about the overall story. I'm talking about individual scenes. There are many scenes in TDKR that are exactly like certain scenes in the comics down to almost every line of dialogue. You're right when it comes to the overall story of TDK being influenced by the comics but I was specifically talking about individual scenes. TDKR has more individual scenes that mirror individual scenes in the comics than BB and TDK did (and in my opinion, some of them don't work well together in the context of the movie).

Okay...it sounded very much like you were talking about the overall story. I would say the major moment lifted from the comics is Bane's breaking of the Bat. And the fact that he says the words "I will break you."

Really though, besides that and the one cop saying "You're in for a show tonight", what other moments of dialogue are directly copied and pasted from the comics? I mean, I'm sure there might be a few but I just can't think of them. The No Man's land stuff was an inspiration but it wasn't a direct lift. It was total chaos in No Man's land, not an revolution under an enemy occupation.

I guess for me the comics references felt similar to the previous two films, barring the Bane Bat-breaking scene, which was probably the most direct comics to film scene in the trilogy. I thought given the 2:45 runtime though, it was nice to see a lot of love shown to the Batman lore. I know you think the film fails as a Batman movie though, so to each his own. I felt like the film was a love letter to this character.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Those TDK days were some of my favorites on here. Nearly everyone was ecstatic. When it hit the billion mark at the box office I swear I could hear champagne corks popping in every Batman fan's house across the world lol.

I wish I had been posting here during those days. I lurked for the longest time...but yeah, TDK was a special time.

[The Joker]

It was magical. Even the hype leading up to TDK was something I've never experienced before. Not even The Avengers, Spider-Man 2, or any of the other greats measured up to that.

[BatLobsterRises]

Not even close.

I mean, I was able to get two girls who were only casual fans to paint their faces with me for the Rory's Death Kiss viral event. 8 months before the movie came out! I feel like the hype of us, the core fans, just spread and infected everyone. Such good times.

[hammerhedd11]

Yeah, the viral campaign was a work of genius. I don't know if any other campaign like that could ever come close to reaching that height again.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Ya mean moi?

Speaking on last son. Your reply was 'snap' but it's not really that kind of reaction since he bashes everything when it comes to Nolan's Batfilms. He'd say the same thing about TDK or BB.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It was magical. Even the hype leading up to TDK was something I've never experienced before. Not even The Avengers, Spider-Man 2, or any of the other greats measured up to that.

Ya your right it was nuts in here, I had never been that excited or felt that much anticipation for a film before, it was truly an experience. I honestly havent felt anything like it since, its kind of depressing.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Speaking on last son. Your reply was 'snap' but it's not really that kind of reaction since he bashes everything when it comes to Nolan's Batfilms. He'd say the same thing about TDK or BB.

Ya sure? I thought I saw last son saying nice things about Begins and Knight before.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Ya sure? I thought I saw last son saying nice things about Begins and Knight before.

I haven't.

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by The Joker

That's true. But to different extents. I've been on these forums for both Begins and TDK's release, and I never recall either one causing this much of a division with the fans as Rises has.

This. And it's not surprising it's gone on to be the most divisive of the three, considering that it's also the most ambitious.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

I now believe I may have also found some evidence for this theory. If you look at TDKR, a good chunk of the story is copied and pasted content from books like No Man's Land, Knightfall, The Dark Knight Returns, and Cataclysm. While BB and TDK were also inspired by many Batman stories and had a couple of scenes here and there that you can consider straight from a Batman comic, the movies were their own stories at the end of the day. TDKR is without a doubt the movie with the most story influence from the comics out of the trilogy and I would say that about half or more of the plot in the film is plot from the comics. This isn't really a bad thing but I think it shows that Nolan either could not come up with a story for the third movie (once again, he couldn't use the one he originally had in mind because he didn't want to recast the Joker), lost the passion to come up with a complete solid story due to Ledger's death, or both.

I think you should brush up on your Batman mythos, there's WAY more from the comics in BB and TDK than you've listed here. This might help:

BB: http://www.gothamcitycentral.com/globe/globe712.php

TDK: http://www.gothamcitycentral.com/globe/globe716.php

TDKR: http://www.gothamcitycentral.com/globe/globe720.php

They are pretty even in terms of ideas used from the comics.

I've never been able to understand this idea that Nolan planned on using the Joker again. There's no real evidence to support that idea. One line from Goyer about his story doesn't really prove anything. I also remember reading some where that Nolan did everything he wanted to do with Joker in TDK.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru

I'm not talking about the overall story. I'm talking about individual scenes. There are many scenes in TDKR that are exactly like certain scenes in the comics down to almost every line of dialogue. You're right when it comes to the overall story of TDK being influenced by the comics but I was specifically talking about individual scenes. TDKR has more individual scenes that mirror individual scenes in the comics than BB and TDK did (and in my opinion, some of them don't work well together in the context of the movie).

Same here. There's more than you realize. I didn't even know just how much there was until I read that list.

[BlueLightning]

Yes, in June of 2005 that was Goyer's original plan for the films. In the development Nolan decided to do it all with The Dark Knight, Nolan does one film at the time:

http://www.superherohype.com/feature...-batman-begins

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by BlueLightning

Yes, in June of 2005 that was Goyer's original plan for the films. In the development Nolan decided to do it all with The Dark Knight, Nolan does one film at the time:

http://www.superherohype.com/feature...-batman-begins

Exactly.

[batfreakforever]

What is the most number one gripe that people have been talking about with Rises?

[MAKAVELI25]

Originally Posted by batfreakforever

What is the most number one gripe that people have been talking about with Rises?

I would say that the story demanded more runtime. IMO, the movie could have used another 30-40 minutes to develop Bane, Catwoman, the Bruce/Miranda relationship, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the siege storyline. The story badly needed more time spent with the regular citizens of Gotham yet we were stuck watching the boring (but admittedly necessary for the storyline) John Blake.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by MAKAVELI25

I would say that the story demanded more runtime. IMO, the movie could have used another 30-40 minutes to develop Bane, Catwoman, the Bruce/Miranda relationship, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the siege storyline. The story badly needed more time spent with the regular citizens of Gotham yet we were stuck watching the boring (but admittedly necessary for the storyline) John Blake.

That sounds good to me. Though Ideally I would excise Talia altogether, along with Foley, and use the screen time they took up to develop Selina more. I just couldn't get enough of Hathaway's Selina.

[Frodo]

Ironically , I think the biggest problem with TDKR is that it does try to be the typical last chapter to a trilogy and harkens back to BB too much even using some of the same story beats . I think had Nolan tried to make it a semi stand alone chapter as BB and TDK were , and focussed on a smaller, more personal story, it would have made a better concluding chapter to the trilogy. That said, TDKR is a worthy finale, though its a flawed finale.

[BatLobsterRises]

I would agree that if I were to change one thing about the film, I'd just have it be a full 3 hour movie at least. I don't go for the whole "split the movie in 2" proposal, because I believe it would ultimately yield two less satisfying films with less emotional impact. Just my opinion though. When it comes to conclusions I prefer going out with one big bang rather than staggering it. But a 3+ hour of this movie definitely exists, both on the page (and possibly on the cutting room floor).

I could have easily gone for a 3 hour TDK too, with more Two-Face. I gotta say though, Nolan is really good at juggling various plot lines even when it is a bit too much weight for the runtime to handle.

[COMPO]

I think what I think is the weakness is the eight year gap, with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight we were seeing the earlier years of Batman and it was expected tyhat by the end we'd see a fully grown Batman with the early years finished. With Bruce quitting at the end of TDK he wasn't a fully grown Batman, who had suffered enough or fought enough.

[MAKAVELI25]

Originally Posted by COMPO

I think what I think is the weakness is the eight year gap, with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight we were seeing the earlier years of Batman and it was expected tyhat by the end we'd see a fully grown Batman with the early years finished. With Bruce quitting at the end of TDK he wasn't a fully grown Batman, who had suffered enough or fought enough.

I also agree with this. I'm never going to like the 8 year absence, I've tried to rationalize it because I loved the first two movies and what Nolan has done for the character, but I don't think it was necessary or handled particularly well.

[MAKAVELI25]

bluray.highdefdigest.com/7394/dark_knight_rises_combo.html

Hey, guys, read this article and tell me what you think

[Brain Damage]

Originally Posted by MAKAVELI25

bluray.highdefdigest.com/7394/dark_knight_rises_combo.html

Hey, guys, read this article and tell me what you think

Good review, but the HULK review it links to is one of the better analysis of TDKR I've read thus far.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Good review, but the HULK review it links to is one of the better analysis of TDKR I've read thus far.

Yup. That one had good stuff in it.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by MAKAVELI25

bluray.highdefdigest.com/7394/dark_knight_rises_combo.html

Hey, guys, read this article and tell me what you think

There's a review somewhat similar regarding the Blu-ray release but has a higher score for the movie itself but other than that, the scores are the same as this review. I wonder why the extras are given really bad scores?