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Old 11-13-2012, 07:13 PM   #76
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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Originally Posted by FadingCB View Post
I'm just curious how many of these people consider themselves hardcore patriots? Most of the people signing this probably think by doing this they're somehow restoring America to "what it should be". Yet at the same time they're basically saying they want to quit being American, and become a new country. Which is about as unpatriotic as you can get. If you truly love your country, and fellow countrymen, you'll try and fix the problems, rather than simply abandoning everything.

So yeah, I agree, this is just a bunch of people throwing tantrums. It just bugs me that this attitude even exists still.
It also shows that they don't believe in the democratic system, and if they don't get their way they'll cry for secession right away. What kind of American are they?

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:15 PM   #77
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

It's a Constitutional Republic with democratic elements bro.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:16 PM   #78
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

Rick Perry Takes Stand On Texas Secession
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2120453.html

Says he does not stand behind the petition(s), but he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with the federal government.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #79
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

If there is a White House response to these petitions, it will be similar to this one by Justice Antonin Scalia back in 2006:



By the way, I do not believe that the President has the authority under the Constitution to grant peacefully grant a state the right to succeed from the union. That authority would fall on the shoulders of Congress and the other states in the union (the ones that grated them statehood in the first place).

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:36 PM   #80
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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Purely realistic POV, Texas might be the only state that could pull it off successfully.
One of the first things that came to mind when I saw there were people in Texas that might want this, was their border with Mexico. It's 1,254 miles long and is currently patrolled by the feds. You put that on the state budget and it becomes a huge burden. Texas currently doesn't have a state income tax and the people who live there LOVE that. They secede and you know they would have no choice but to implement one.

You also have to realize that there are 14 military bases in Texas and many of them are essential to their local economies. Texas secedes and I doubt they would want the country they just flipped off keeping those bases open and active inside their new country. So, we would most likely shut them down and relocate. The Texas economy takes another huge hit.

They would then have to look at all of the infrastructure that Texans currently take for granted. Things like federally funded interstates, utility lines/companies, and shipping lanes controlled by the US. You set up an international border and that's going to make shipping a huge issues. Suddenly any company that has a factory in Texas that wants to do business with the US would then face international shipping, taxes, and tariffs.

My personal favorite of the problems secession would cause, social security. About 10% of Texans are on social security. Secede, and they lose their income. Well, unless the Texas state government wants to foot the nearly $35 billion bill. That's also $35 billion that the Texas economy loses. A massive hit.

They couldn't pull it off.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:43 PM   #81
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

I wonder if Obama should even indignify himself with a response for the petition to secede. And such petitions are a waste of time because this issue led to Civil War, and the bottom line is neither the states nor the citizens have the right to secede from the Union. This is just something that the disgruntled GOP voters are doing to create an illusion that there is a huge opposition against Obama in the media.

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Old 11-13-2012, 08:47 PM   #82
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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One of the first things that came to mind when I saw there were people in Texas that might want this, was their border with Mexico. It's 1,254 miles long and is currently patrolled by the feds. You put that on the state budget and it becomes a huge burden. Texas currently doesn't have a state income tax and the people who live there LOVE that. They secede and you know they would have no choice but to implement one.

You also have to realize that there are 14 military bases in Texas and many of them are essential to their local economies. Texas secedes and I doubt they would want the country they just flipped off keeping those bases open and active inside their new country. So, we would most likely shut them down and relocate. The Texas economy takes another huge hit.

They would then have to look at all of the infrastructure that Texans currently take for granted. Things like federally funded interstates, utility lines/companies, and shipping lanes controlled by the US. You set up an international border and that's going to make shipping a huge issues. Suddenly any company that has a factory in Texas that wants to do business with the US would then face international shipping, taxes, and tariffs.

My personal favorite of the problems secession would cause, social security. About 10% of Texans are on social security. Secede, and they lose their income. Well, unless the Texas state government wants to foot the nearly $35 billion bill. That's also $35 billion that the Texas economy loses. A massive hit.

They couldn't pull it off.
Where the hell were you when Clinton raided social security pay for his "budget surplus". It's a giant ponzi scheme at this point. Besides Texas is the main center where all oil and gas passes through in the country, and sits on a good chunk of oil. Maybe quarter or third? That's enormous economic leverage. Many huge businesses are there as it is. Many more will flood in if they secede. I fathom massive capital flight towards there. They have way more economic leverage than any state.

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Old 11-13-2012, 08:59 PM   #83
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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Originally Posted by dnno1 View Post
Rick Perry Takes Stand On Texas Secession
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2120453.html

Says he does not stand behind the petition(s), but he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with the federal government.
This is what Perry is going up against(a united group of people who love their state)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 11-13-2012, 09:41 PM   #84
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

Im really tired of hearing how texas wants to secede. Your a part of the union, Texas. Suck it up. If not and they feel this Union is so ****** they can leave and get friendly with the mexican cartel. Im sure they will do just fine with no government support.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:09 PM   #85
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

It's up to 37 states with petitions now.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:14 PM   #86
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

I told the elderly woman on Facebook who was sharing a petition all over the place to try to mentally advance to at least 1/5 of her physical age.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:17 PM   #87
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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Originally Posted by Paradoxium View Post
Where the hell were you when Clinton raided social security pay for his "budget surplus". It's a giant ponzi scheme at this point. Besides Texas is the main center where all oil and gas passes through in the country, and sits on a good chunk of oil. Maybe quarter or third? That's enormous economic leverage. Many huge businesses are there as it is. Many more will flood in if they secede. I fathom massive capital flight towards there. They have way more economic leverage than any state.


The Clinton Administration never "raided" Social Security. People are still getting their benefits today. Where where you?

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:18 PM   #88
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

Also, the chances of any international recognition for any secession movement is 0%, which lowers any chances that "New America" or "The Republic of Texas" may have of sustainable economies without the United States. It's not going to be like Kosovo, where Independence is recognized by 60% of the international community, or even Palestine.

This is just nonsense that I am not worried about at all.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:36 PM   #89
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

I think people are watching a little too much Revolution. Not enough to boost its ratings, but enough.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:40 PM   #90
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnno1 View Post
Rick Perry Takes Stand On Texas Secession
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2120453.html

Says he does not stand behind the petition(s), but he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with the federal government.
Jed Bartlett Responds to Rick Perry's "Frustrations (starts around the three minute mark)"

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


Just replace Florida with Texas.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:54 PM   #91
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Jed Bartlett Responds to Rick Perry's "Frustrations (starts around the three minute mark)"

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


Just replace Florida with Texas.
Man, I miss the West Wing. Great show.

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Old 11-13-2012, 11:05 PM   #92
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

Okay, every state represented sound like sore losers. Yes, I'm aware my state is included -- but it sounds like a LOT of these petition signers are teabaggers and Republicans. If a fair amount of Democrats and Libertarians were represented here, it might be worth looking into.

But right now, it's an utterly ridiculous notion. Especially in a down economy like this.

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Old 11-13-2012, 11:59 PM   #93
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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I'm just curious how many of these people consider themselves hardcore patriots? Most of the people signing this probably think by doing this they're somehow restoring America to "what it should be". Yet at the same time they're basically saying they want to quit being American, and become a new country. Which is about as unpatriotic as you can get. If you truly love your country, and fellow countrymen, you'll try and fix the problems, rather than simply abandoning everything.

So yeah, I agree, this is just a bunch of people throwing tantrums. It just bugs me that this attitude even exists still.
I'm just gonna play the devils advocate and kinda disagree here. The whole reason this country exists is because people didn't like their government and decided to remove themselves and start over. And admittance into the Union was meant to be voluntary with the states having the right to peacefully secede (and article 4 of the constitution denies the federal government the ability to forcefully intervene - what Lincoln did by invading the South was technically illegal).

So, in a weird way, I don't think it's unamerican to want to follow in the forefathers footsteps. That is not to say that I agree with those who want to secede (enough people have stated solid reasons for why it's a bad idea that I don't need to repeat them), but it is a fact that the right to secede existed, and was unconstitutionaly lost during the civil war.

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:28 AM   #94
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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Okay, every state represented sound like sore losers. Yes, I'm aware my state is included -- but it sounds like a LOT of these petition signers are teabaggers and Republicans. If a fair amount of Democrats and Libertarians were represented here, it might be worth looking into.

But right now, it's an utterly ridiculous notion. Especially in a down economy like this.
This kind of "outrageous" should've been better served for the 2000 election, when Bush lost the popular votes and could've lost Florida and the electoral votes if Supreme Court did not intervene.

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:50 AM   #95
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I'm just gonna play the devils advocate and kinda disagree here. The whole reason this country exists is because people didn't like their government and decided to remove themselves and start over. And admittance into the Union was meant to be voluntary with the states having the right to peacefully secede (and article 4 of the constitution denies the federal government the ability to forcefully intervene - what Lincoln did by invading the South was technically illegal).

So, in a weird way, I don't think it's unamerican to want to follow in the forefathers footsteps. That is not to say that I agree with those who want to secede (enough people have stated solid reasons for why it's a bad idea that I don't need to repeat them), but it is a fact that the right to secede existed, and was unconstitutionaly lost during the civil war.
I understand wanting to leave the union but doing it 2 days after an election just comes across as sour grapes. Honestly do these people think that the country is going be that much worse under the Democrats then the Republicans. If you think there is problems with the system, fine you have a good argument, but it comes off rather ridiculous doing it when it was done

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Old 11-14-2012, 01:17 AM   #96
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

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I'm just gonna play the devils advocate and kinda disagree here. The whole reason this country exists is because people didn't like their government and decided to remove themselves and start over. And admittance into the Union was meant to be voluntary with the states having the right to peacefully secede (and article 4 of the constitution denies the federal government the ability to forcefully intervene - what Lincoln did by invading the South was technically illegal).

So, in a weird way, I don't think it's unamerican to want to follow in the forefathers footsteps. That is not to say that I agree with those who want to secede (enough people have stated solid reasons for why it's a bad idea that I don't need to repeat them), but it is a fact that the right to secede existed, and was unconstitutionaly lost during the civil war.
Perhaps, but if these same people who promote these petitions are the same people who said during the Bush administration that anyone who criticizes the President is unpatriotic or that liberals are naturally unpatriotic or some other board statement about patriotism, are these petitions not a huge contradiction? I think people here have a problem with those who hide behind the flag when its convenient and then do 180 when not everything goes their way. Freedom does not mean getting your way all the time and if you are going to talk about how patriotic you are and then try to leave the country when not everything goes your way, why should people take you seriously?

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Old 11-14-2012, 07:03 AM   #97
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

As a Canadian I'm used to hearing this crap. Quebec hasn't ever shut up about being their own country due to whatever the hell the reasons they want to give today are. They want to be a country and have no allegiance to anyone but they want full support from the Canadian government until the end of time. They've had several referendums in an attempt to separate and every single one has failed. They've been trying for 50+ years and it's really getting old.

Here's a link for some history if anyone's interested

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_...ignty_movement

The people starting the petitions are likely the same ones who have refused and always will refuse to consider anything but themselves. They want to separate because they want what they think is best, which is fine, but they have no idea what it takes to run a small city never mind a country unto itself.

The same thing will happen as to Quebec, nothing. There will be much crying and whining but nothing will come of it, as expected. I understand that people are dissatisfied with their lives but really, grow up. You can't dissolve a country because you don't like who is running it. If you could then we'd have a billion micro-nations and everybody would be murdering each other, so it'd be like an MMORPG.

In the end it's stupid and a waste of everyone's time. If they really cared then they'd do something more than just type out a petition, they'd join a political party and attempt to gain power to eventually secede from the union.

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Old 11-14-2012, 07:56 AM   #98
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Okay, every state represented sound like sore losers. Yes, I'm aware my state is included -- but it sounds like a LOT of these petition signers are teabaggers and Republicans. If a fair amount of Democrats and Libertarians were represented here, it might be worth looking into.

But right now, it's an utterly ridiculous notion. Especially in a down economy like this.
I think the one thing we have to be careful about here is that these are not the states themselves but individuals who may (or may not) be from that respective state signing the petition. I think it would be inappropriate to say that each state is represented here since the majority are not represented here.

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Old 11-14-2012, 08:31 AM   #99
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Default Re: Petitions Filed in 15 States to Leave the Union

Exactly, Indiana is on that list and I know of no one around here talking about secession.

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Old 11-14-2012, 09:00 AM   #100
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I wouldn't miss the south and bible belt much.

Maybe the city that includes Disney World but that's it.

The more I think about what America would become without the right wing extremist the more I like the idea of them leaving. But none of that dual citizenship crap. Once you abandon the United States, you're gone for good.

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