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Old 12-31-2012, 06:43 AM   #501
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I edited that paragraph out of my original post. It sounds too obnoxious and self-important.

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:56 AM   #502
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In hindsight....I would have started work on a time machine before 2012 so I can go back to 2004 and relive the hype all over with the trilogy
Yes! Although I don't want to re-live anything else in those years, lol

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Old 12-31-2012, 07:55 AM   #503
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To start with, the whole 8-year gap is fine, but I would've made Batman fade from public sighting gradually over the years rather than just abruptly make him disappear. Bruce Wayne would've been a hermit, sure, but in the sense that he has become 'lost inside his monster'. He has isolated himself from the world as Bruce Wayne but not as Batman. He still would go out every other night after Dent's murder being on the run from the police but not finding much crime on the streets as the Dent Act was working perhaps so well that slowly Bruce realizes that he isn't needed out on the streets anymore. Suddenly he has lost all sense of purpose. True to what Rachel said in TDK about "the day would never come when Bruce no longer needs Batman" even Gotham doesn't anymore. He just sulks around the cave hoping for a reason to put on the suit again. This would've tied very well with Alfred's speech about Bruce never moving on and simply waiting for things to go bad.

Secondly, it would've been so much better had they not completely undermined TDK's ending by exposing the Dent coverup. In TDK, Batman and Gordon make a questionable but perfectly justifiable decision for the greater good, and in my opinion was the right thing to do. It was morally ambiguous, but TDKR undercuts it by showing that it was the wrong choice, which takes the ambiguity a step back to the simpler black-white scale. So my version of the script would've kept the truth about Dent concealed. Of course, it would still be killing Gordon on the inside praising Dent as a martyr, but making that conflict permanent as retribution for their lie would've made for better storytelling by showing that Gordon, like Batman, was also paying the price for it.

Now, Bane. Building on the fact that he and his men "were behind the coup in West Africa", Bane would be a genuine extremist revolutionary along the lines of Che Guevara rather than simply wanting to 'destroy Gotham'. Throughout his childhood, Bane himself witnessed the excesses of capitalism sucking the lifeblood out of developing impoverished nations and his crusade against the Western economic imperialists gains him his own group of mercenaries, fanatical followers and resources. Of course, Bane would be ex-LOS who was cast out by Ra's because Bane's methods were too radical as well as too ideologically different, and this would also be one of his motivations for attacking Gotham - to prove Ra's wrong and succeed where Ra's failed. His attack on the stockmarket would bankrupt not only Bruce Wayne, but also pension funds and many social security benefits instruments. This economic collapse would be the trigger for Bane to start his own French Revolution and recruit the common working man who lost everything to the greed of blue-blooded aristocrats. There is actual civil war and Gotham's citizens are given their fair share of screentime. This setup would've made the film much more relevant and resonant to our times just like TDK.

The whole pit prison subplot would essentially remain the same with a few notable changes. First of all, no Ra's flashback. That was just cheesy and unnecessary. The blind doctor, with the help of Bruce's cellmate, would actually do some sort of medical operation on Bruce's back to help his recovery. The mystery of the child who escaped the pit - unchanged. With his mask broken, Bane's crippling pain would be what ultimately kills him. In the climax of the final battle with Batman, Bane would lie there, paralyzed, defiantly refusing to be saved (because as I said, he would be someone who truly believed in his cause) and takes his last breath with words of respect towards his able adversary.

I'd also axe the pointless city orphans subplot and give more screentime to Selina Kyle/Catwoman and Miranda Tate/Talia. Speaking of Talia, she would be this supremely talented infiltrator who had infiltrated both Bane's mercenaries and Wayne Enterprises. Bane would think her on his side, as would Bruce, but in truth she would be working under both their noses to fulfill her father's (and the now scattered and defeated League Of Shadows') destiny. She would also be the one who kills Fox (you really need an important death to raise the emotional stakes) and Batman, thinking it was Bane, let's out all his fury at him in the final battle.

Now, since there is civil war in Gotham, the federal government would want to step in and take control of the situation. However, Bane's deterrent this time around would not be a fusion nuclear bomb (screw the entire clean energy project subplot), but rather a biological weapon - a virus or plague of some sort developed by Dr. Pavell. Bane threatens that if anyone interferes with the revolution, he has infected an unknown number of his people with the virus who would spread the plague throughout the country. Ergo, the U.S government orders a full-on quarantine of Gotham. Boom, you get your No Man's Land scenario and a believable reason for how the army and national guard would not let anyone in or out of Gotham.

Gordon, Blake, the honest cops and some of Gothams upright citizens are trying to maintain order are fighting a losing battle against the revolutionaries and are running out of both time and resources. Before dying, Fox completes working on a cure for the plague and a way to disperse it in the atmosphere. And the mobile core would be the instrument to do so. The cure would need to be ignited at extremely high temperatures to make it airborne a.k.a why The Bat needs to drag it to the skies for your big explosion in the end. After backstabbing Batman, Talia finds out about the mobile core cure for the plague and plans to sabotage it with the help of her loyal LOS members who also had infiltrated Bane's mercenary group. Gordon drives the truck with the core in the back to keep it safe from Talia and her goons in the Tumblers who plan to destroy it and permanently plunging Gotham towards a self-destructive civil war.


I love a lot of these changes. Your version of the siege of Gotham sounds ten times more interesting that what we got.

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:53 AM   #504
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Fenrir I love that post. I admit I love the movie but also admit that something feels off about it. Ive been wracking my brain thinking of how I'd change things, and the biological attack and actual civil war you describe are stuff I've thought of. It would really make things seem horrifying and we'd feel we NEED batman to win. It'd also fulfill babes menacing promise.. This is hard to put into words cuz I liked bane a lot, but it felt like he should've been.. Worse(as in even more evil). Felt like untapped potential to me in the end. Also the scenario you suggest really really pushes the envelope from where in tdk it felt like everything was on a razors edge-- you could feel the tension.. This tension never fully developed mainly cuz Gotham is seemingly non reactive and uninvolved in banes plan. Anyway I could go on and on but I love your ideas.

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:57 AM   #505
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Adding to that a minor thing but I'd have totally axed the part where Alfred just totally reveals who and what bane is. I feel Nolan undercut a lot of banes potential with this. It was like the stock exchange scene happens where bane seemed like a total monster.. We didn't need Alfred telling us how ferocious his uppercut is. This worked in tdk when hes describing joker because of the way he says "some men want to watch the world burn" it was so ominous and disturbing. Here it was "look at his speed,his trainung,etc" he sounded like mick from rocky. It was deflating.Also I'd have had catwoman lure batman to bane somehow. Not the other way around.


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Old 12-31-2012, 11:00 AM   #506
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I love most of those changes, but Bruce's ending is still the thing that irks me the most, as I said in the All Things Superman thread:

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I don't think I will ever like the ending to the film. I can appreciate, but I don't like it and don't think it makes sense, at least not for this incarnation of Batman. For Miller and The Dark Knight Returns, it made sense that Bruce would fake his death, his life as Bruce was only holding him back from being as truly effective as possible as Batman. In this series, Bruce was trying to let go of Batman.

What I feel would have been more suitable would be his ending as delivered in Kingdom Come, whereby Bruce runs Wayne Manor as a hospital, following in his father's footsteps, because:

1) Bruce doesn't "let go" of the pain Alfred talked to him about. He ran away from it using his clean slate. Which is exactly what he did in Batman Begins, after 3 full films of development, he is regressed to the point before he donned to cowl.

2) It disregards what was inferred from Batman Begins, which focused on the legacy of Thomas Wayne, I thought his whole "I don't care about my name" schtick had been drummed out of him by Alfred, yet in The Dark Knight Rises, he dies a crazy old recluse, who used to get drunk and burn down his home. Sure there was a brief stint where he tried to save the world, but it conveniently took place in Offscreenville.-

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Old 12-31-2012, 11:30 AM   #507
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

IMO, Bruce climbing out of the pit represents Bruce's renewal of spirit and moving past the demons that drove his life. Primarily by accepting a bit of healthy fear back to into his heart, which is what makes him regain the will to live. I don't think he regressed to where he was prior to becoming Batman, because he was full of anger and searching for answers then. Now he's just going about his life in a peaceful manner with a companion who is trying to move beyond the past with him.

Also, I thought turning Wayne Manor into an orphanage was a nice way to pay tribute to the legacy of his parents. I think they'd be more proud of him for that than they would be if he doubled the profits of Wayne Enterprises.

I think Bruce having a happy ending was never going to jive well with everybody, and that's okay. It's risky business coming up with an ending for a character that is typically ongoing. For me the risk paid off, but I get why it would bother others. I do feel they set it up and paid it off well though.

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Old 12-31-2012, 12:40 PM   #508
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Batbax actually criticized TDKR?!? Where is the real batbax, and what did you do with him?

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Old 12-31-2012, 01:06 PM   #509
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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1) You can't get fingerprints off a shattered bullet. But, if Joker left a casing as a clue, that'd make more sense and would be something I'd change.
2) Have a better way for Blake to know who Batman is (not that I have a problem with him knowing, just don't like the explanation.
3) Reshoot Talia's death.
4) Use Jonathan's original script for TDKR, the 400 page version.
The IMAX run time limit says no.

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Yes! Although I don't want to re-live anything else in those years, lol
I'd really love to see the hype surrounding Spider-Man 3 and then how people started to act once they saw the film though, lol.

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Old 12-31-2012, 01:13 PM   #510
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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The IMAX run time limit says no.
Beyond IMAX run time limit, 400 pages is the rough equivalent of a 6 1/2 hour film, lol.

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Old 12-31-2012, 01:19 PM   #511
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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IMO, Bruce climbing out of the pit represents Bruce's renewal of spirit and moving past the demons that drove his life. Primarily by accepting a bit of healthy fear back to into his heart, which is what makes him regain the will to live. I don't think he regressed to where he was prior to becoming Batman, because he was full of anger and searching for answers then. Now he's just going about his life in a peaceful manner with a companion who is trying to move beyond the past with him.

Also, I thought turning Wayne Manor into an orphanage was a nice way to pay tribute to the legacy of his parents. I think they'd be more proud of him for that than they would be if he doubled the profits of Wayne Enterprises.

I think Bruce having a happy ending was never going to jive well with everybody, and that's okay. It's risky business coming up with an ending for a character that is typically ongoing. For me the risk paid off, but I get why it would bother others. I do feel they set it up and paid it off well though.
I'm fine with giving Bruce a happy ending, there are plenty of them to draw from. I just don't like this one. Like I said, I'd rather he have received the ending from Kingdom Come, he retires from the cowl, but opens up Wayne Manor as a hospital which he runs, following in his fathers footsteps. Hell, it didn't even need to be a hospital, it still could have been an orphanage. I just don't see why Bruce would need to fake his death if he let go of his pain.

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Old 12-31-2012, 01:20 PM   #512
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Batbax actually criticized TDKR?!? Where is the real batbax, and what did you do with him?
Lol just like the old days every time I post travesty magically appears. I know ya love me big guy but I'm already taken.

As for your observation yes there's plenty in tdkr I'd love to have seen done differently and I've stated it plenty before.

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Old 12-31-2012, 02:13 PM   #513
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The IMAX run time limit says no.
I know but none of this is going to happen anyway, so why not dream? Besides, we could have 2 or 3 intermissions.

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Old 12-31-2012, 02:59 PM   #514
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Part of me would like to have seen a TDKR where Bane's revolution was sincere and I wouldn't be surprised if this idea was tossed around early on. It seems like ti might be hard to manage that idea and make it work with the ending they have planned. It seems a bit problematic for there to be a happy ending in the short term right after an all out civil war in Gotham. Batman retiring after a civil war would be really hard to swallow.

The only thing that kinda bugs me is the auto pilot bit. I would have been alright if Lucius finds out that Bruce created some kind of ejection rather than fixed the autopilot and for some reason didn't tell the few people who he actually knew and cared about but instead wanted them to think he was going to die. Why tell Selina flat out "no autopilot" if he plans on spending his life with her by the end? It's jerking around the audience a bit too much and doesn't make much sense after the first viewing. I love the ending and effect of Batman faking his death, just coulda been done with more tact.

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Old 12-31-2012, 03:05 PM   #515
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Fenrir
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Now, since there is civil war in Gotham, the federal government would want to step in and take control of the situation. However, Bane's deterrent this time around would not be a fusion nuclear bomb (screw the entire clean energy project subplot), but rather a biological weapon - a virus or plague of some sort developed by Dr. Pavell. Bane threatens that if anyone interferes with the revolution, he has infected an unknown number of his people with the virus who would spread the plague throughout the country. Ergo, the U.S government orders a full-on quarantine of Gotham. Boom, you get your No Man's Land scenario and a believable reason for how the army and national guard would not let anyone in or out of Gotham.
A biological threat is very uncontrollable, especially when it comes to a virus. One could end up killing billions before stopping its havoc in the world. Even if Bane would have had an antidote for a bacterial threat. There is just not a real viable way to combat a virus. Vaccines only warn the body of threat and be on the look out. It doesn't actually destroy the virus. Viruses mutates very quickly and is able to combat against threats more easily than a bacterium.

The fusion reactor is more controllable. You can limit the destruction you're looking for and still complete your mission. The whole point of the bomb was to bring out the savagery of the people in Gotham and the military. A nuclear threat is always taken seriously by the leaders of the world, particularly when there was already a nuclear bomb primed to go off. You just can't guarantee that that bomb is only one while one is also trying to save a city with 12 million people in it. It would have been nice to see more of the people during the five months, it just wasn't what Nolan wanted the movie to have that perspective.

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:49 PM   #516
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Quick question for anyone who disliked or hated how the Dent reveal was in TDKR...how would you have handled the situation and how would you have portrayed Gotham's "voice" or "soul" and how they'd view Gordon afterwards?

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Beyond IMAX run time limit, 400 pages is the rough equivalent of a 6 1/2 hour film, lol.
Just wondering, but would it really be a 6 1/2 hour film, or what would probably be the time realistically?

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I know but none of this is going to happen anyway, so why not dream? Besides, we could have 2 or 3 intermissions.
Heh. Two or three intermissions. If we were to dream, it would be best to dream of TDKR receiving two parts instead rather than intermissions between one film, imo.

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:52 PM   #517
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Quick question for anyone who disliked or hated how the Dent reveal was in TDKR...how would you have handled the situation and how would you have portrayed Gotham's "voice" or "soul" and how they'd view Gordon afterwards?



Just wondering, but would it really be a 6 1/2 hour film, or what would probably be the time realistically?



Heh. Two or three intermissions. If we were to dream, it would be best to dream of TDKR receiving two parts instead rather than intermissions between one film, imo.
Fair enough. And it would be approximately 6 hours and forty minutes if you go by the 1 page=1 minute rule. Maybe longer, maybe shorter. It depends how much of it was action and how much is dialogue, since dialogue scenes can be faster on screen than on page.

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:56 PM   #518
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Just wondering, but would it really be a 6 1/2 hour film, or what would probably be the time realistically?
Generally speaking, a page is worth a minute of screentime. TDK's script is 167 pages long while the film is 152 minutes.

So, if the TDKR script really was 400 pages it would indeed be equal to a little over 6 and a half hours.

I'd still do routine viewings in single sittings

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Old 12-31-2012, 07:25 PM   #519
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The only thing that I wonder is how much of the 400 pages were filmed. While Nolan doesn't like to release director cuts, hopefully he would release a longer version of the movie that did show more of the people's time under Bane's rule. If the IMAX limitations did cause him to shortened his film it might convince Nolan to release another version. Or at least release deleted scenes when the ultimate trilogy is released in the fall.

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Old 12-31-2012, 07:49 PM   #520
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I honestly would have made Batman seem a bit more competent at what he does. You know less wanton destruction, a little more detective work, which I think out of the three movies there maybe two scenes where he's detecting.

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:49 PM   #521
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There's one real good "detective" work being done in each film.

Batman Begins - locating the drugs in the Narrows

The Dark Knight - finding the fingerprints from the bullet

The Dark Knight Rises - tracing back Selina Kyle's name and address

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Old 01-03-2013, 11:04 AM   #522
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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The only thing that I wonder is how much of the 400 pages were filmed. While Nolan doesn't like to release director cuts, hopefully he would release a longer version of the movie that did show more of the people's time under Bane's rule. If the IMAX limitations did cause him to shortened his film it might convince Nolan to release another version. Or at least release deleted scenes when the ultimate trilogy is released in the fall.
The 400 thing was a draft. Nolan then worked for a long time to create a movie script out of it , and then a shooting script.

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Old 01-03-2013, 04:10 PM   #523
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In that scene where Batman and Alfred are discussing Bane in the Batcave, Batman says, "Bane is going to have the whole League behind him. But if I can get him alone, I can beat him. Then they'll crumble from the inside."

When the time rolls around, Batman with Catwoman's help, infiltrates Bane's lair just as he did in the movie. Being stealth, taking out guy after guy to get to Bane. He then walks through the door and finds himself face to face with Bane. He's taken back at how easy it was to find him. Then the fight scene happens just as it did. No league members interfere. Batman still gets completely decimated like he did. For those that remember the line, it would be some nice irony.


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Old 01-03-2013, 04:21 PM   #524
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Just wondering, but would it really be a 6 1/2 hour film, or what would probably be the time realistically?
Well, the general rule for screenwriting is 1 page = 1 minute of screentime, therefore 400 pages would be the rough equivalent of 400 minutes.

For instance the TDKR screenplay is 164 pages and the movie is 165 minutes (including credits of course, but still).

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Old 01-03-2013, 07:21 PM   #525
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I can't lie; that idea for biological warfare sounds great.

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