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Old 11-20-2012, 07:37 PM   #176
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

All I can say is, it seems kind of unfair to write something off in a sequel because it expounds upon a character from a prior movie. If this was an inherently wrong idea for screenwriting, than there'd be no greater offender than The Godfather: Part II, which gives you an in depth look at Vito Coreleon's backstory, who just so happens to also be a central father figure from the first movie. I can understand being attached to a film because you've been watching it a certain way for 7 years, but I personally loved the feeling that small lines from Batman Begins had a much greater significance than we could have known. Although Ra's speaking about his wife always seemed like it left the door wide open for them to introduce Talia to me. So in that sense, I enjoyed the confirmation the TDKR gave to that interpretation. To each his own though.

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Old 11-20-2012, 07:52 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by MAKAVELI25 View Post
Ok

1) Gotham, an AMERICAN city, has been under siege for five months. I don't think people understand how crazy that is. In any city in the world that would be insane, but for a city in the country with one of the best infrastructures in the world it's almost incredible. Bruce Wayne would be very low on the list of priorities of people would be looking for. We're talking about a guy who was hidden in his mansion for 3 years, who exactly would be looking for him?

2) Ostensibly, atleast to the people, Bane's revolution was against the rich. If Bruce had simply dissappeared it would've been months before anyone even discovered this, and they most likely would think he had died during the siege

Why even put Alfred through all that agony in the first place? What if Alfred had never gone to Florence? Why lie to everyone he trusted about the Bat having an autopilot? Like most things in the movie, it just falls flat when you really think about it
So you're saying Bruce Wayne, the guy who's last name is behind the greatest company we know of in Gotham City, won't be looked for until at least for a while?

At least while he was a recluse, the majority knew where Bruce was, stuck in his mansion.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #178
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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You're going to have to be more specific, because I have read and re-read what you wrote:


This interpretation still stands given the story told in TDKR. Ra's thought he was all alone, not knowing his love and daughter were alive, rotting in a cell. He was a mirror to Bruce. I'm not sure what you think is different between the way Ra's felt at the time when he chose to seek out the LOS and your interpretation.
No it doesn't. Ra's is already a mercinary, he's already a killer, that fundamentally changes the parallell between him and Bruce, they dont share a tragic background anymore, he was exiled and couldn't be with his wife anymore and didnt even know his daughter exsisted. For there to be a mirror image of two characters there has to be something that connects them. Rises eliminates that mirror.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:38 PM   #179
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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So you're saying Bruce Wayne, the guy who's last name is behind the greatest company we know of in Gotham City, won't be looked for until at least for a while?

At least while he was a recluse, the majority knew where Bruce was, stuck in his mansion.
Of course he will be looked for, but he will not be a priority. Laying a siege on an American city for a few days, let alone a few months, would be an act of terrorism beyond anything seen in recent times. The movie didn't really dwell on it, but I don't think people can fathom the repercussions of something like this happening on the most powerful nation on Earth. Also, no one apart from Alfred would really be pressing for people to find Bruce. He wasn't even the CEO of Wayne Enterprises anymore (The Miranda Tate transfer), why would it be a pressing concern to find Bruce Wayne in the midst of all the chaos?


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Old 11-20-2012, 10:27 PM   #180
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Of course he will be looked for, but he will not be a priority. Laying a siege on an American city for a few days, let alone a few months, would be an act of terrorism beyond anything seen in recent times. The movie didn't really dwell on it, but I don't think people can fathom the repercussions of something like this happening on the most powerful nation on Earth. Also, no one apart from Alfred would really be pressing for people to find Bruce. He wasn't even the CEO of Wayne Enterprises anymore (The Miranda Tate transfer), why would it be a pressing concern to find Bruce Wayne in the midst of all the chaos?
Simply because he's Bruce Wayne. As Carmine Falcone said, you'd have to be away from Gotham for someone to not know his name; people will be looking for Bruce Wayne who's such a pivotal member of Gotham City.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:38 PM   #181
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Simply because he's Bruce Wayne. As Carmine Falcone said, you'd have to be away from Gotham for someone to not know his name; people will be looking for Bruce Wayne who's such a pivotal member of Gotham City.
A pivotal member of the city that was a recluse for three years? Really? Also, as I said before, he is no longer the CEO of Wayne Enterprises. Bruce is never shown being friends with anyone apart from Alfred and maybe Lucius, without him being the CEO then who really has a personal stake to find him?

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:45 PM   #182
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

There was no need for Bruce Wayne to pretend he was dead. He had nothing to fear. Nobody in Gotham City except his allies knew he was Batman. His faked death was just needless melodrama, in my opinion. I didn't like it. It was fake emotion.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:45 PM   #183
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A pivotal member of the city that was a recluse for three years? Really? Also, as I said before, he is no longer the CEO of Wayne Enterprises. Bruce is never shown being friends with anyone apart from Alfred and maybe Lucius, without him being the CEO then who really has a personal stake to find him?
But as I said, people at least knew where Bruce was when he was a recluse. John Blake has entered the mansion and spoke to Bruce personally. Alfred isn't there anymore. People would ask questions on where Bruce is that wasn't the case before.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:50 PM   #184
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But as I said, people at least knew where Bruce was when he was a recluse. John Blake has entered the mansion and spoke to Bruce personally. Alfred isn't there anymore. People would ask questions on where Bruce is that wasn't the case before.
I see what you're saying, but you also have to remember that Bruce kept up the playboy charade throughout his interaction with the public. The film gives no evidence that anyone outside of the Wayne Enterprise circle knew about the clean energy product, so his reputation would have been largely that of a playboy. Maybe if he had been an active CEO and involved in his company's dealing then he would be regarded differently, but I don't see how finding a billionaire playboy would be a priority at that point. Remember, we're talking about a guy with no personal/social life who had relinquished all rights to his company, why would finding him be a pressing concern?

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Old 11-21-2012, 02:05 AM   #185
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I posted this in the GD thread as a small change I would have made to the final battle -
Quote:
I thought today it would have been really epic if there was a scene before the final battle that involved Batman and Foley. Purely as Foley had such a poor point of view toward Batman for the majority of the film I thought a little dialogue between the too would have been great to see. May have even benefited Foley's character a little... Just a little speech from Batman before Foley goes in to battle.

I also thought if in the scene with Fox earlier on when they are in the Bat-Bunker and searching through Batman's armoury that Bruce picks up a small sonar device as a small nod to The Dark Knight, he then gives this device to Foley before the final battle charge.

Then when the final battle does begin we see Batman crouched on the rooftops scouting the ground with the sonar for Bane who is fighting random cops. He then finally spots him in the crowd and glides down all the way to Bane and glide kicks him in the back. And THAT would be my "**** yeah" moment of the film.

If it ever happened of course.
I also would have put no time limit on the bombs detonation.

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Old 11-21-2012, 03:43 AM   #186
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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No it doesn't. Ra's is already a mercinary, he's already a killer, that fundamentally changes the parallell between him and Bruce, they dont share a tragic background anymore, he was exiled and couldn't be with his wife anymore and didnt even know his daughter exsisted. For there to be a mirror image of two characters there has to be something that connects them. Rises eliminates that mirror.
There still is a mirror, it's just different than you thought. They still both seek justice from the LOS after they lose somebody important to them. Ra's always was willing to kill whereas Bruce never was, so your implication that they were more mirrored in your version than in the movie is bogus. The connection between them is about the loss of a loved one propelling them to seek change in the infrastructure of societies.

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Old 11-21-2012, 03:50 AM   #187
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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There still is a mirror, it's just different than you thought. They still both seek justice from the LOS after they lose somebody important to them. Ra's always was willing to kill whereas Bruce never was, so your implication that they were more mirrored in your version than in the movie is bogus. The connection between them is about the loss of a loved one propelling them to seek change in the infrastructure of societies.

Let me just flat out say it then - it's weak.

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Old 11-21-2012, 03:51 AM   #188
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
All I can say is, it seems kind of unfair to write something off in a sequel because it expounds upon a character from a prior movie. If this was an inherently wrong idea for screenwriting, than there'd be no greater offender than The Godfather: Part II, which gives you an in depth look at Vito Coreleon's backstory, who just so happens to also be a central father figure from the first movie. I can understand being attached to a film because you've been watching it a certain way for 7 years, but I personally loved the feeling that small lines from Batman Begins had a much greater significance than we could have known. Although Ra's speaking about his wife always seemed like it left the door wide open for them to introduce Talia to me. So in that sense, I enjoyed the confirmation the TDKR gave to that interpretation. To each his own though.
I agree, I thought this bit was well done.

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Old 11-21-2012, 04:22 AM   #189
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

This thread seems pointless. It just seems a waste because we you cant change the outcome of the movie, this thread is just a pipedream, a what if thing. We can talk till we are blue in the face. It still wont change. No offence to anybody, Im just trying to find the positives in making this thread.

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Old 11-21-2012, 04:40 AM   #190
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This thread seems pointless. It just seems a waste because we you cant change the outcome of the movie, this thread is just a pipedream, a what if thing. We can talk till we are blue in the face. It still wont change. No offence to anybody, Im just trying to find the positives in making this thread.
Is anybody here trying to change the movies? No. Wanna know how I know? Cause it's literally in the title: "In hindsight". Yes, this is very much a "what if thing", as you yourself put it, but so what? What's wrong with discussing the what ifs?

If you've got a problem with what ifs, then my friend, you are seriously missing out.


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Old 11-21-2012, 05:00 AM   #191
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I'm just saying thats all. I question trailers and plot descriptions/pics before the movie gets released in theaters but once I have seen it thats it. I talk about the themes and characters yeah after(thats why im here) but for me to say put this in, take that out. Change a voice or arc is just strange to me. I just never got into the whole fan (not that all the fans do this, because we are all different) thing of change this, do this etc. Theres nothing that got me riled in the film. I talk about batman did this and this but never should of done this and this. Please dont get angry just because im happy. I mean no harm.

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Old 11-21-2012, 10:09 AM   #192
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I see what you're saying, but you also have to remember that Bruce kept up the playboy charade throughout his interaction with the public. The film gives no evidence that anyone outside of the Wayne Enterprise circle knew about the clean energy product, so his reputation would have been largely that of a playboy. Maybe if he had been an active CEO and involved in his company's dealing then he would be regarded differently, but I don't see how finding a billionaire playboy would be a priority at that point. Remember, we're talking about a guy with no personal/social life who had relinquished all rights to his company, why would finding him be a pressing concern?
Lol, I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing. Imo, Bruce was the "Prince of Gotham" and he was the "King of Gotham", but losing that money may have taken that title away, but he's still a pivotal member of society in Gotham City. It would not take long for someone to start looking for Bruce. If that was the case, wouldn't it have taken just as long to go over his will if there are other things to do as well? Let alone going over his will that seemed to be taken place at Wayne Tower, a place that shouldn't even have done this when he was let go?

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Old 11-21-2012, 10:11 AM   #193
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Is anybody here trying to change the movies? No. Wanna know how I know? Cause it's literally in the title: "In hindsight". Yes, this is very much a "what if thing", as you yourself put it, but so what? What's wrong with discussing the what ifs?

If you've got a problem with what ifs, then my friend, you are seriously missing out.
Exactly

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Old 11-21-2012, 10:14 AM   #194
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Although it doesn't quite make sense when someone says this:

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Originally Posted by Joss Whedon View Post
This thread should be titled; I know more than Christopher Nolan!

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Originally Posted by Fudgie View Post
Sounds good to moi. Nolan ain't infallible. He's made his blunders, especially in Rises.
Granted, the title of the thread should not be called 'I Know More Than Christopher Nolan', but saying the title will be good? Ehhh...feels like people are trying to change something that can't be fixed.

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:32 AM   #195
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aww that's cute. Bet the guard didn't know he had his own personal lap dog. Sick em boy.
qft.

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #196
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Although it doesn't quite make sense when someone says this:

Granted, the title of the thread should not be called 'I Know More Than Christopher Nolan', but saying the title will be good? Ehhh...feels like people are trying to change something that can't be fixed.
People are suggesting alternatives that would have improved the movie. Only a fool would be of the frame of mind that they can change a movie that has already been made.

Now comments such as this:

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It has no problems. The problems that you have for the film are your problems and not the film itself.
Are the kind of thing that are the essence of stupidity.

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Old 11-21-2012, 12:24 PM   #197
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Have you heard episode 12 with Ralph Garman? Smith still likes the movie, but he's now admitting there are some funky things with it, and the retirement was brought up a few times. Really funny episode. Their Michael Caine impressions are hysterical.
Listening to it now. Love these podcasts they are great but it still sorta annoys me that people are attributing Bruce being gone for 8 years purely because of Rachel because it isn't IMO. Though the point about him seeing his parents being gunned down is what motivates to do all this is great

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Old 11-21-2012, 12:28 PM   #198
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Yeah, the Ralph Garman podcast was great if only for their Bane impressions. Smith can be pretty even-handed, even about things he loves, which I like.

Ralph sounded like such a grumpy fanboy though, lol. I certainly disagree with his assessments of Bruce's retirement, as they ignore a lot of things presented in the film.

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Old 11-21-2012, 01:04 PM   #199
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Yeah, the Ralph Garman podcast was great if only for their Bane impressions. Smith can be pretty even-handed, even about things he loves, which I like.

Ralph sounded like such a grumpy fanboy though, lol. I certainly disagree with his assessments of Bruce's retirement, as they ignore a lot of things presented in the film.
I thought the funniest impressions were the Michael Caine ones:

Alfred -"One day, I was sitting down, at this very specific place outside of Gotham, drinking a wine you can only purchase in this specific place"

Batman -"wait, I'm gonna need the exact location of that place, so I can surprise you later when you think I'm dead"



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Old 11-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #200
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People are suggesting alternatives that would have improved the movie. Only a fool would be of the frame of mind that they can change a movie that has already been made.
Suggestions are fine, sure, but half of them aren't as well planned as what was actually in TDKR, though. To say their ideas are better than what Nolan planned out is just silly.

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