So now we've seen both, which was the best? - Part 1

[Spider-Aziz]

Originally Posted by Spider-X

Raimi Spider-Man
- Very kid friendly
- Weaker action
- Mechanical Webshooters (positive or negative depending on which side of the fence you stand on)

-Can't agree about the kid friendly part, in the first film the Goblin kills a couple of dozen people. Peter breaks the wrist of the carjacker, you see the wrist twisted
In SM3 Harry gets impaled by his own glider just like his father, Peter gets beaten near death by a giant Sandman, and Brock gets blown to bits merging himself with the symbiote again
-I cannot get myself to agree on action, it's slower and less impressive in Webb's film
-Psst, organic, not mechanical

Originally Posted by optimus2861

ASM is more like the Ultimate comics. SM1 is more like the original comics.

As Shikamaru said; the Raimi films didn't really adapt the classic, at least on that I agree with him when it comes to Peter not being a smart mouth in films, Peter talked back to Flash and to Jameson time and again in the classic comics, Raimi's Peter is too much of a pushover
In ASM 033: Peter demands a begging Jameson to pay $100 per picture, and Jonah has nothing but to obey
In the Raimi films Peter approves crackers he's handed, in all 3 films. Only in SM3 he talks back a little about him being more worthy of the staff photographer position

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz

1. Batman Begins
2. Iron Man
3. Robocop (1987)
4. Superman (1978)
5. Spider-Man

I want to like your list, but I didn't really care for the origins of both Superman and RoboCop. Both extremely great films, but I didn't find the origins that great. I hope Man of Steel actually give Superman a better take on the origin. And RoboCop...ehhh..., lol. That film has never really been brought to mind when thinking of an origin.

Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz

When it comes to Green Goblin persona he was near perfect, same goes for Norman loving his son. More faithful than Molina's Doc Ock
Can't say the same about the split personality part

The persona should include the costume and that's where the persona falls apart, imo.

But, Molina's Ock was definitely very faithful, imo. The villain that is the most faithful in Raimi's films even I'd say.

[Spider-Aziz]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I want to like your list, but I didn't really care for the origins of both Superman and RoboCop. Both extremely great films, but I didn't find the origins that great.

I still count them as best films, since they are great, and we talk about best origin films

I hope Man of Steel actually give Superman a better take on the origin. And RoboCop...ehhh..., lol. That film has never really been brought to mind when thinking of an origin.

I hope both of them can give great origin stories, and Man of Steel really has the potential to give a better origin for Superman

[bullets]

Spider-man is a better film. However I prefer Andrew as Spider-man and thought ASM was really good.

[Spider-X]

Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz

-Psst, organic, not mechanical

Thanks much...copy and paste error on my behalf. Now fixed.

[Spider-X]

Originally Posted by optimus2861

In any event, I know of no Peter Parker in any prior interpretation who revealed his secret ID to a girl he barely knows just so he can score a makeout session with her. That was my tipping point for the film; I just couldn't buy it after that.

he doesn't give away his secret id just to score a make out session...he gave it away because he was acting odd and didn't want to scare her off because he liked her so much...she just happened to respond by initiating said kiss-time...he didn't know that was going to happen.

Hey...maybe now you can enjoy the movie more! Lol.

One major lapse in logic that bothered me about ASM was this: remember when Pete finds out he's been bitten and is afraid he might die from it...he then goes to Connors' place and then all the sudden isn't worried anymore...why the hell not? Could anyone straighten me out on that?

[bullets]

At that point he must of realized he was mutating instead of dying. I think he even asked Connor's something about foreign species mutating. At that point Connor's tells him the only way to survive is to figure out the algorithm , which Peter has been working on and shows him on the napkin.

[Dagenspear]

Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz

-Can't agree about the kid friendly part, in the first film the Goblin kills a couple of dozen people. Peter breaks the wrist of the carjacker, you see the wrist twisted
In SM3 Harry gets impaled by his own glider just like his father, Peter gets beaten near death by a giant Sandman, and Brock gets blown to bits merging himself with the symbiote again
-I cannot get myself to agree on action, it's slower and less impressive in Webb's film
-Psst, organic, not mechanical

Yeah, Raimi's film was not kid friendly. Goblin ****ing nukes his board of directors, makes dirty looks to MJ, beats Peter to bloody pulp while making the innuendo of rape, and and gets stabbbed through the gut with his glider and dies while blood oozes out of his mouth. I mean, it wasn't exactly BATMAN RETURNS, but it sure as hell wasn't kid friendly. The tone was definitely lighter than TASM, as Raimi was just trying make a film and not copy BATMAN BEGINS, but SM1 had far darker events. And don't even get me started on SM2, the birth of Ock scene ALONE is still really hard to watch for me.

[Spiderdevil]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Once more, you're still talking about the second best origin film. Spider-Man and Iron Man are tied at 2nd.

Are you referring to Batman Begins?
Well both Iron Man and SM earned more and are better reviewed
Its just your opinion
As per facts,in no way BB comes first

CB fans should want perfect, or at least near perfect interpretations and that's what can be said for Molina's Doc Ock, which can't be said for Dafoe's Green Goblin.

Needless to say Dafoe's Goblin resembled his CB personality a lot lot more that Molina's Ock.He was more perfect in that sense
The only part were Molina's Ock is ahead is his look resembled more than Goblin's to their CB counterpart
Molina's Doc Ock is a long way off the personality he is the comics,in no way perfect.A cocky evil Doc Ock would have been terrible in SM2 despite being more perfect to the CB counterpart
But both him and Green Goblin were perfect for the movie and the script and thats what I want from Electro
The only perfect interpretation I want resembling the comics is the hero and the love interest

Much more realistic? This isn't Webb's reboot that kept trying to push the "grounded" tone. This is Raimi's version which didn't have any limitations and having a better Green Goblin wouldn't have hurt. Instead, we only get a nod to the comics because of a dumb mask and just a green pilot suit the neck down. Pathetic.

Needless to say,TASM is as unrealistic as SM1,maybe more
The Green Goblin was the best for the movie,there is no better version for that movie

And No,I am not of an opinion to make him wear a ridiculous skin tight outfit just to make him resemble a goblin more,the Mask was an enough nod.Do you have the same opinion about Scarecrow in BB just because he didnt resemble a scarecrow as much as he did in the comics?

I suppose it's illogical to you for a hero to create a skin tight costume then, yes?

Thats a good question
For Spider-man it makes sense,since Spandex helps in increasing his speed while swinging and all

For Batman its illogical for him to wear a skin tight latex,even more ridiculous to have an underwear on top.Props to Nolan for changing that into an armour which was a lot more logical

For heroes like CapAm,they gave good explanation in his movie,he used it for the promotions and shows and all and later held on to it as it sorta grew on him.But him wearing it in the Avengers didnt have a logic attached to it but nobody cares.

The Lizard was filmed as he entered OsCorp. Didn't pay attention to the movie I see.

No he wasnt,he was being observed by the police in the Helicopter who say those lines-I wouldnt venture to say what it is but clearly it is not Human

Although I'm not twisting anything. Panic is panic, fear is fear. Some gas shouldn't be the only reason to cause panic and mayhem.

You are trying to downplay what a poweful hallucinogen can do to you,especially the one used in BB.FFS even Batman was pissing his pants after inhaling it

Evacuation doesnt always cause panic,it can be done in an orderly manner.

You were talking about how you thought Spider-Man was the best origin film, but now TAS-M's first hour is the best in an origin film?

Yeah,Best first hour in an origin movie imo,but the second hour is terrible save a few moments which makes the final product not so good
SM1 is a better rounded movie,and as I said,not a dull or bad moment and overall gives the better feeling in the end

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spiderdevil

Are you referring to Batman Begins?
Well both Iron Man and SM earned more and are better reviewed
Its just your opinion
As per facts,in no way BB comes first

Spider-Man - 73/100 metacritic (8.0 user rating), 89% RT rating (84% top critics)

Iron Man - 79/100 metacritic (8.3 user rating), 94% RT rating (91% top critics)

Batman Begins - 70/100 metacritic (8.5 user rating), 85% RT rating (62% top critics)

Indeed the numbers are quite different on separate areas, and it's all opinion, but Batman Begins definitely has a stronger origin than S-M or IM, imo.

But, per facts even, Spider-Man doesn't come first either

Needless to say Dafoe's Goblin resembled his CB personality a lot lot more that Molina's Ock.He was more perfect in that sense
The only part were Molina's Ock is ahead is his look resembled more than Goblin's to their CB counterpart
Molina's Doc Ock is a long way off the personality he is the comics,in no way perfect.A cocky evil Doc Ock would have been terrible in SM2 despite being more perfect to the CB counterpart
But both him and Green Goblin were perfect for the movie and the script and thats what I want from Electro
The only perfect interpretation I want resembling the comics is the hero and the love interest

Good thing we've had Nolan's Batman

Still disagree on the idea that Dafoe's Green Goblin was any more perfect than Molina's Ock. Heck, I recall a brilliant article that Joker on these forums had created regarding S-M 2's Ock compared to the comics and it was beautifully done.

Needless to say,TASM is as unrealistic as SM1,maybe more
The Green Goblin was the best for the movie,there is no better version for that movie

I've said what I needed to say on my end, but I'll just say I disagree once more. Green Goblin could have been way better than what we see. Both Goblins in Raimi's trilogy could have been better.

And No,I am not of an opinion to make him wear a ridiculous skin tight outfit just to make him resemble a goblin more,the Mask was an enough nod.Do you have the same opinion about Scarecrow in BB just because he didnt resemble a scarecrow as much as he did in the comics?

Needless to say, it didn't have to be skin tight so I still do not understand that idea you're having. It can be a material where you don't have to see every single muscle on Osborn.

And regarding Scarecrow in BB...comparing the two are like apples and oranges when really nothing with Nolan's trilogy looks anything like the comics except for Batman's BB suit, plus Joker(somewhat) and Two-Face in TDK. Raimi's films, for the most part, tried to be very faithful to the comics. But the Goblins? That part failed.

Thats a good question
For Spider-man it makes sense,since Spandex helps in increasing his speed while swinging and all

Thus wouldn't it make sense for GG when traveling in great speed on the glider?

For Batman its illogical for him to wear a skin tight latex,even more ridiculous to have an underwear on top.Props to Nolan for changing that into an armour which was a lot more logical

Agree that Batman had to be changed, and Batman's suit was always changed from the comics, even in the '89 film took liberties outside from what the comics showed.

For heroes like CapAm,they gave good explanation in his movie,he used it for the promotions and shows and all and later held on to it as it sorta grew on him.But him wearing it in the Avengers didnt have a logic attached to it but nobody cares.

When dealing with Captain America, yes, it makes sense because of the explanations we are given. But Norman Osborn could have been written differently and so could Green Goblin.

No he wasnt,he was being observed by the police in the Helicopter who say those lines-I wouldnt venture to say what it is but clearly it is not Human

That wasn't the police. That was a news team.

But, let's say it was the police. That would make no sense since the police already knew it wasn't human after the school battle.

You are trying to downplay what a poweful hallucinogen can do to you,especially the one used in BB.FFS even Batman was pissing his pants after inhaling it

Not downplaying anything. Fear in general can be caused by many things besides some gas.

Evacuation doesnt always cause panic,it can be done in an orderly manner.

Lol, give me one example. Just one, I dare you.

Yeah,Best first hour in an origin movie imo,but the second hour is terrible save a few moments which makes the final product not so good
SM1 is a better rounded movie,and as I said,not a dull or bad moment and overall gives the better feeling in the end

It was a fine first hour, I'll give TAS-M that, and my favorite part of the entire film was under the 50-minute mark, but in no way does it make it the best first hour of an origin film.

[Spiderdevil]

Okay,I wont reply to half the things since people are getting tired of our arguments and we are not going to change each other's opinion

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Spider-Man - 73/100 metacritic (8.0 user rating), 89% RT rating (84% top critics)
Iron Man - 79/100 metacritic (8.3 user rating), 94% RT rating (91% top critics)
Batman Begins - 70/100 metacritic (8.5 user rating), 85% RT rating (62% top critics)
Indeed the numbers are quite different on separate areas, and it's all opinion, but Batman Begins definitely has a stronger origin than S-M or IM, imo.
But, per facts even, Spider-Man doesn't come first either

Different sites yield different results.BB's top critic rating is pathetic
I would say SM is the most well rounded origin film,kid friendly,great action sequences,comedy moments,relatable,optimistic and all in all a trend changer

IM is the one with the least flaws,RDJ totally stole the show.Still the best portrayal of a CB hero imo.Andrew's Spidey is on line but needs to keep up the good work in the sequel

BB's narration and development of Batman was pretty good,but imo didnt have any 'wow' moments which IM and SM had to offer.No great action sequences.But it did explore a relatively new dark theme and influenced other movies so it gets that credit

Its all about opinion really,for me its SM and thats a amazing since its more than 10 years old

And regarding Scarecrow in BB...comparing the two are like apples and oranges when really nothing with Nolan's trilogy looks anything like the comics except for Batman's BB suit, plus Joker(somewhat) and Two-Face in TDK. Raimi's films, for the most part, tried to be very faithful to the comics. But the Goblins? That part failed.

So is it fair to say the whole trilogy is flawed since it didnt resemble the comics just like GG is flawed for the same reason?
But I dont count that as flaw just like I dont count GG's suit as a flaw since it was realistic

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Nolan isn't great at action sequences, but the Rachel rescue from Arkham is pretty sweet.

[Spiderdevil]

I wouldnt say that,The action scenes in Inception are pretty good

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Inception was his best results to date, but I was talking talking BB specifically. The car sequence was the best action in that film, the WOW moment for me. Hand to hand combat sequences are average in all his bat-films. Raimi has much better feel for action, so SM1 is better on that count. But overall I put the films on the same level, good but not great.

[LegendAssemble]

In what way was Amazing Spider-Man more like the comics may I ask? I mean there was Gwen and the Web Shooters but they sure as hell changed a lot of stuff too. If you ask me they're both equally far from the source material just in very different ways.

[Spider-Aziz]

Originally Posted by LegendAssemble

In what way was Amazing Spider-Man more like the comics may I ask? I mean there was Gwen and the Web Shooters but they sure as hell changed a lot of stuff too. If you ask me they're both equally far from the source material just in very different ways.

Change Lizard with Eddie Brock

[Human Torch]

Green Goblin's costume wasn't as bad as people try to make it out to be.Because of all the fanboy crying over it, Harry didn't even end up wearing a goblin costume in SM 3.

[GoldGoblin]

Originally Posted by Human Torch

Green Goblin's costume wasn't as bad as people try to make it out to be.Because of all the fanboy crying over it, Harry didn't even end up wearing a goblin costume in SM 3.

^
Yep the fans demanded Venom in SM3 even though we saw Harry finding the Goblin's lair in SM2 and Raimi hated Venom.So fans are to blame for cramming more villains in,and cramming in a villain that the director hated.

And fans cried about the Goblin costume,so we get a snowboard/paintball costume instead.

Fans screwed the Raimi spider-man,they killed SM4.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Dafoe's face was encased in plastic. He was more scary without the mask. Next time prosthetics and make-up for the Goblin, the mask just doesn't work on film.

[Spider-Aziz]

Originally Posted by Human Torch

Green Goblin's costume wasn't as bad as people try to make it out to be.Because of all the fanboy crying over it, Harry didn't even end up wearing a goblin costume in SM 3.

With entering a tight spot in the first Goblin fight in SM3 I fully approve the design they went with, board and costume

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Human Torch

Green Goblin's costume wasn't as bad as people try to make it out to be.

Yeah, it was. He looked like a life sized plastic action figure.

Because of all the fanboy crying over it, Harry didn't even end up wearing a goblin costume in SM 3.

Because Harry wasn't written as a Goblin. He wasn't even called a Goblin in the movie except when Peter mockingly called him Goblin junior. If it wasn't for the pumpkin bombs and razor bats you wouldn't even know he was affiliated with the Goblin legacy. He didn't even have a glider. He had a hoverboard.

[Oscorp]

I think the Green Goblin costume in SM1 wasn't terrible in any way. It looked pretty cool at times. But it definitely isn't the ideal Green Goblin look.

[optimus2861]

Originally Posted by Spider-X

he doesn't give away his secret id just to score a make out session...he gave it away because he was acting odd and didn't want to scare her off because he liked her so much...she just happened to respond by initiating said kiss-time...he didn't know that was going to happen.

Hey...maybe now you can enjoy the movie more! Lol.

He webbed her (why the heck was he even wearing his webshooters at that moment anyway?) and pulled her into his arms. That wasn't a "OMG what do I do I'm so nervous" move (how do you even get from there to "I know, I'll tell her I'm Spider-Man! That will calm her down!"?) -- that was a "I'm Spider-Man, so come here and kiss me, you!" move.

We've got different takes on it, I guess. It just felt horribly contrived to me.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spiderdevil

Okay,I wont reply to half the things since people are getting tired of our arguments and we are not going to change each other's opinion


Different sites yield different results.BB's top critic rating is pathetic
I would say SM is the most well rounded origin film,kid friendly,great action sequences,comedy moments,relatable,optimistic and all in all a trend changer

IM is the one with the least flaws,RDJ totally stole the show.Still the best portrayal of a CB hero imo.Andrew's Spidey is on line but needs to keep up the good work in the sequel

BB's narration and development of Batman was pretty good,but imo didnt have any 'wow' moments which IM and SM had to offer.No great action sequences.But it did explore a relatively new dark theme and influenced other movies so it gets that credit

Its all about opinion really,for me its SM and thats a amazing since its more than 10 years old

Once again you just underestimate any Nolan Batfilm. It's like you try so hard to take away what Nolan has done to Batman and what Nolan has done to the genre as a whole.

So is it fair to say the whole trilogy is flawed since it didnt resemble the comics just like GG is flawed for the same reason?
But I dont count that as flaw just like I dont count GG's suit as a flaw since it was realistic

Haven't you already said the trilogy is flawed everytime you underestimate it?

Like I said, apples and oranges man. Nolan's trilogy was never going to be faithful to the comics, therefore it's ridiculous to call it flawed because of its unfaithfulness, but Raimi's trilogy WAS supposed to be faithful. It wasn't with the Goblins for the most part.

Originally Posted by Human Torch

Green Goblin's costume wasn't as bad as people try to make it out to be.Because of all the fanboy crying over it, Harry didn't even end up wearing a goblin costume in SM 3.

Yes, Green Goblin's costume was pretty bad indeed.

And just because fanboys cried over it, they decided to make Harry's costume even worse? How does that work?

Originally Posted by GoldGoblin

^
Yep the fans demanded Venom in SM3 even though we saw Harry finding the Goblin's lair in SM2 and Raimi hated Venom.So fans are to blame for cramming more villains in,and cramming in a villain that the director hated.

And fans cried about the Goblin costume,so we get a snowboard/paintball costume instead.

Fans screwed the Raimi spider-man,they killed SM4.

I have no legit proof that the fans made Raimi give Harry a less-Goblin like attire, but it wasn't the fans that forced Raimi to use Venom and the symbiote. While not acting as a producer, Avi Arad acted as a fan and forced Venom and the symbiote into Spider-Man 3. Fans whine about everything, but the studio, the producers, the director...you know, they don't really have to listen to them as long as they have their own vision. If that was the case, we'd have The Riddler in TDKR.

[UltimateWebhead]

Originally Posted by optimus2861

(why the heck was he even wearing his webshooters at that moment anyway?)

He basically had them on 24/7 once he had created them. It's kinda like a condom...better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.