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Old 11-16-2012, 10:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

I'll knock down their doors, I'll light myself on fire, all in the name of protest. ANYTHING TO STOP THE SENSELESS MADNESS THAT THEY'RE CREATING

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Old 11-16-2012, 11:02 PM   #27
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WB claims its developing a tv show for next year (i think). Aaaand thats about it for news.

Oh and the tv show will likely not be very good, and its cancellation will probably delay indefinitely any WW solo movie. But that's more of an educated guess than news

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Old 11-16-2012, 11:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

Bringing back an old discussion that I never got around to responding to, first a few highlights…
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I have a question that I will be amazed if anyone answers: what would the plot look like if it covered WW's origin and both Ares and Cheetah were the villains, and it did justice to all three?
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It would probably involve Ares empowering Cheetah as his champion in man's world, with Wonder Woman taking the opposite task, and then eventually taking on Ares himself. It would also imply that Ares is more of a mastermind character and less of a frontline combatant, since he'd have Cheetah for that. Alternately, Ares could just empower Cheetah to add an extra element to the field.
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Of course it can be done justice to. Especially so on film. But the reason why Cheetah, Diana's origin, and Ares are all cramped into one film means you'll have to treat them like Joker and Ra's Al Ghul appearing in the same movie.

And honestly, that's all sorts of brilliant.

We all have our personal takes on these characters, but the reason I think Cheetah is such a strong foe against Wonder Woman is because she represents that sort of wild, animism and mythology that the Greeks were consciously growing out of. She's on one side the mythical beast in all your hero-fables, like the Sphynx or Medusa, but at the same time reminds me of the fact that the Greeks, and of course Diana's Themyscira, is such an embodiment of humanity and a celebration of human beauty. Cheetah counters that.

If Cheetah was, mythically speaking, pre-Hellenic, Mars is post-Hellenic and more Roman. He'd be the ultimate patriarch and at the same time since he's a deity as opposed to Diana or Barbara, he sort of comes in with this idea that his ideals are more "pure" and primitive. After all, the Amazons were believed to be "war-mongers" but there's a reason why by the time we have Hippolyta, that's opposed.

Just my thoughts.
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That works very well thematically actually, good job.

The plot though... at what point do you bring in Cheetah and what rate do you progress her, and the same with Ares. The real reason Joker and Ra's is a bad idea is because you're kinda shortchanging yourself because you can't max out either. I mean... what Joker scenes would you take out of TDK to add in Ra's to make it better? I can't think of a single one.

I think it can be done if you pull Ares back and make him a trilogy villain, like a Palpatine or a Sauron or a Voldemort. That way you can totally max out on Cheetah and still have room to do justice to Ares later. Ares becomes more of a mastermind with limited hands on events, like a Loki while he fields Cheetah and others to do his dirty work.
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Thanks thing is it's not like I'm writing the script so I haven't actually written it out like that mate! But I completely agree with making Ares a trilogy villain and letting some of the other foes like Cheetah, Circe, or even Psycho, be "maxed-out" in individual outings.

A good way of introducing one and the other would be (and this is just off the top of my head): Ares threatening the world with war, a concept, essentially without form. You start off with the Amazons and Ares in this perpetual struggle, which is culminating to the point of destruction, thus requiring Diana to step into the role of Wonder Woman (ala Perez) and fighting that, while at the same time we see Cheetah's transformation and emergence into the scene threatens that balance that Wonder Woman is struggling for. Cheetah is the "greater threat" here, and by the story's climax, threatens these otherwise "human" ideals that the two camps had been struggling with.

Or maybe that's too cliched, I dunno. The story would need more effort to be truly original.
Anyway, I really like the idea that Ares empowers Cheetah, and giving Minerva a prior relationship with Diana might help make the fight more personal and make Cheetah more than just a stock monster. And making Ares more of a trilogy villain would also help immensely to give other villains a chance to shine. I have this image in my head of Ares disguising himself as a doctor or something and pouring a vial of magic stuff into Minerva's drink.

And I didn't realize there was so much that could be done thematically with Cheetah. I used to wonder why she had endured as an iconic WW villain. I figure if you start with the DTV as your story template, the point where she fights Deimos would instead be the moment she throws down with Cheetah, and it should be a much more public event.

And for some reason, I really want to see Cheetah lift a car over her head and throw it; like that would be the moment where I as an audience member would go "Oh, I see, she's not just a glorified furry, she has like God powers and stuff."

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Old 11-17-2012, 12:25 AM   #29
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I just realized that the sequence of our avatars looks like Tom Selleck and Andred Garfiled making suggestive eye brow movements at each other while Lucille Bluth looks on in disgust.

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Old 11-17-2012, 01:59 AM   #30
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I just realized that the sequence of our avatars looks like Tom Selleck and Andred Garfiled making suggestive eye brow movements at each other while Lucille Bluth looks on in disgust.
Sure does.

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Old 11-17-2012, 05:37 AM   #31
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Bringing back an old discussion that I never got around to responding to, first a few highlights…
Anyway, I really like the idea that Ares empowers Cheetah, and giving Minerva a prior relationship with Diana might help make the fight more personal and make Cheetah more than just a stock monster. And making Ares more of a trilogy villain would also help immensely to give other villains a chance to shine. I have this image in my head of Ares disguising himself as a doctor or something and pouring a vial of magic stuff into Minerva's drink.

And I didn't realize there was so much that could be done thematically with Cheetah. I used to wonder why she had endured as an iconic WW villain. I figure if you start with the DTV as your story template, the point where she fights Deimos would instead be the moment she throws down with Cheetah, and it should be a much more public event.

And for some reason, I really want to see Cheetah lift a car over her head and throw it; like that would be the moment where I as an audience member would go "Oh, I see, she's not just a glorified furry, she has like God powers and stuff."
Definitely make Cheetah more a of a physical threat, including serious super strength and I think it makes sense for her to be embarrassingly faster, quicker and more agile than Diana. She's a monster, she should be feared in the monster tradition. Giving her a more matted, wild look would go a long way to that.

I don't know that she can get much of a pre-relationship with Diana if Diana's just coming off the island not long before Cheetah manifests. Perhaps though her meeting Diana is what drags her into this mythology business. Minerva might be a Museum Curator or something with knowledge about ancient Greece or Themyscira or whatever that Diana gets in contact with, then she has a scene with Ares, and the next time Diana goes to see her, she Cheetahs out! That way Diana can feel responsible for Cheetah's creation, and feel all her new friends are in danger... of becoming threats against her manipulated by Ares. What do you guys think?

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I haven't really been following the thread. What is the current state of a Wonder Woman TV show/film? (pls)
Film is still in development hell, no progress. All film focus is on the JLA film, even Superman sequel and Batman film news is silent. The origin TV show is apparently being developed, not in casting stages yet, no word if it will be ready for the fall, but will probably make a pilot. Will probably be Smallville-like in quality if not character elements.

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Old 11-17-2012, 11:19 AM   #32
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

Wait, people are talking about something other than casting in here?

Huzzah!

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Old 11-17-2012, 11:52 AM   #33
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

I'd actually be inclined to emphasize the Cheetah's speed over strength. Sure, she's bricky enough to be competitive with Diana and not be a pure Fragile Speedster, but the contest should be "speed and attrition vs skill and endurance." Wonder Woman's most iconic physical feat is "blocking bullets", after all. An opponent fast and agile enough that being able to block bullets just means you *might* be able to keep up is appropriate.

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Old 11-17-2012, 02:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9


Evangeline Lilly

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Old 11-17-2012, 02:42 PM   #35
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

I don't think they'll ever use Circe or Cheetah as the main villain for the Wondy films. WB will be wary enough that they have a female lead and sure as hell won't cast a female villain - otherwise what are all the poor cis males to do??

Baring that in mind, I would love to see Ares and Cheetah together as villains. I like Daniel Craig as an Ares and Evangeline Lily as Cheetah. BUT, I'd still love for Circe to be included in the movie. Maybe a small cameo as a witch who lives on Amazon? Or at the end of the film she is seen making a deal with Ares..?

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Old 11-17-2012, 03:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

Assuming the film is successful, Circe can be saved for a sequel.

I don't see Daniel Craig playing a villain in the near future, usually that's for character actors, bored actors and waning stars, Craig doesn't seem to fit any of those descriptions. You might have more luck with one of the previous Bond's for instance. Brosnan could be interesting in the role, I think.

I think as far as males go, Ares with a mastermind/Voldemort type role and Steve Trevor as a sort of military-tech sidekick to balance against Diana's classical heroine... between those two the guys should feel fine and quite active. But I do feel you on having her take on a male at the end, which is part of why I wouldn't use Cheetah in teh first film. I'd give Ares a lieutenant that wasn't quite as deep. Perhaps an Angle Man or a Baroness Von Gunther... someone you can take out at the beginning of the third act to start building towards the climax. Team up Circe and Cheetah in a sequel and Dr. Psycho/Maxwell Lord and Silver Swan in the third.

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Old 11-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #37
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

Personally how I would do the villains if given a trilogy mindset

Ares - Mastermind throughout all movies, physical introduction to WW in 2nd, main threat in third along with Circe.

Circe - Ares' right hand, gives Cheetah the ability to turn were-Cheetah instead of her just wearing cheetahs she's hunted, also have her as main threat in 3rd movie (taking over NY) leading into Ares.

Cheetah - Introduced in 1st movie, with help from Ares and Circe posing as NY socialite Priscilla Rich in 1-2, cliffhanger at end of 1st movie.

Baroness von Gunther - Threat of 1st movie, still unsure what I was thinking at first, but I know it had to do with military and her getting possessed by Dark Angel becoming the physical villain for WW to defeat.

Silver Swan - Vanessa; threat in second movie, Circe responsible for her transformation by Ares orders to get a villain closer and inside WW circle.


I need to organize my thoughts a bit more, but that's the basics for me.

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Old 11-17-2012, 06:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

I must confess that Im not a WW cb fan from way back, so Im pretty unfamiliar with the DC version of Ares. Obviously hes a brick, but how similar or different is he from the Marvel depiction? Just going by the mythology or even Marvel , he would seem to be a wonderful foil for Wondy.


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Old 11-17-2012, 11:13 PM   #39
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

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I don't know that she can get much of a pre-relationship with Diana if Diana's just coming off the island not long before Cheetah manifests. Perhaps though her meeting Diana is what drags her into this mythology business. Minerva might be a Museum Curator or something with knowledge about ancient Greece or Themyscira or whatever that Diana gets in contact with, then she has a scene with Ares, and the next time Diana goes to see her, she Cheetahs out! That way Diana can feel responsible for Cheetah's creation, and feel all her new friends are in danger... of becoming threats against her manipulated by Ares. What do you guys think?
Oh, I like that a lot. Really ups the personal stakes. Plus, a big fight scene in a museum is something I wish I could see more often.

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I don't think they'll ever use Circe or Cheetah as the main villain for the Wondy films. WB will be wary enough that they have a female lead and sure as hell won't cast a female villain - otherwise what are all the poor cis males to do??
Actually, I figure it fits right in line with Hollywood's nasty habit of pairing up a female superhero with a female supervillain.

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Old 11-17-2012, 11:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

I don't really see Cheetah as a main villain. More a recurring/evolving henchwoman type.

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Old 11-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #41
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Actually, I figure it fits right in line with Hollywood's nasty habit of pairing up a female superhero with a female supervillain.
Yeah I guess you're right. But if they were to make a Wonder Woman movie to tie-in with the Justice League movie they would need to attract at least some male viewers without objectifying Wonder Woman.

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Old 11-18-2012, 10:14 AM   #42
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But in all reality, they're totally going to objectify her. It's just too easy. Look at her costume.

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Old 11-18-2012, 10:49 AM   #43
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Assuming the film is successful, Circe can be saved for a sequel.

I don't see Daniel Craig playing a villain in the near future, usually that's for character actors, bored actors and waning stars, Craig doesn't seem to fit any of those descriptions. You might have more luck with one of the previous Bond's for instance. Brosnan could be interesting in the role, I think.

I think as far as males go, Ares with a mastermind/Voldemort type role and Steve Trevor as a sort of military-tech sidekick to balance against Diana's classical heroine... between those two the guys should feel fine and quite active. But I do feel you on having her take on a male at the end, which is part of why I wouldn't use Cheetah in teh first film. I'd give Ares a lieutenant that wasn't quite as deep. Perhaps an Angle Man or a Baroness Von Gunther... someone you can take out at the beginning of the third act to start building towards the climax. Team up Circe and Cheetah in a sequel and Dr. Psycho/Maxwell Lord and Silver Swan in the third.
Brosnan should stay away from this type of movie. It's Daniel Craig who would give a role more gravitas. Brosnan has always been lightweight, and to see him as a villain would be pretty pathetic. And I don't think that villains just have to fall into the categories you specified. Some actors play these roles because good villains are often remembered more than the heroes, and plus they want to diversify. Brosnan would seem more out of place in a movie like this than Craig.

Cheetah could still be used, but she could be what looks like part of a smaller plot that gives way to a bigger plot and bigger villain behind it all. So Cheetah is more of a pawn or the means by which WW stumbles upon something bigger.

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Old 11-18-2012, 04:10 PM   #44
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Assuming the film is successful, Circe can be saved for a sequel.

I don't see Daniel Craig playing a villain in the near future, usually that's for character actors, bored actors and waning stars, Craig doesn't seem to fit any of those descriptions. You might have more luck with one of the previous Bond's for instance.
Craig has played villains before. He voiced the main villain in "The Adventures of Tintin" and he was a villain in "Road to Perdition".

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Old 11-18-2012, 04:35 PM   #45
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Default Re: Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 9

I like the idea of Ares being a God disguised as a war monger in Man's World.

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Old 11-18-2012, 05:02 PM   #46
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I like the idea of Ares being a God disguised as a war monger in Man's World.
Ares was like that for a while in WW comics. Aristotle "Ares" Buchanan was a powerful arms dealer that eventually realized he was indeed Ares himself.

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Craig has played villains before. He voiced the main villain in "The Adventures of Tintin" and he was a villain in "Road to Perdition".
He indeed has before, when he was more of a character actor. And while people voice all sorts of stuff they would never play in live action, currently because he's a white-hot star who is quite busy and apparently content with his current trend of work, he's not going to be playing any villains.

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Brosnan should stay away from this type of movie. It's Daniel Craig who would give a role more gravitas. Brosnan has always been lightweight, and to see him as a villain would be pretty pathetic. And I don't think that villains just have to fall into the categories you specified. Some actors play these roles because good villains are often remembered more than the heroes, and plus they want to diversify. Brosnan would seem more out of place in a movie like this than Craig.

Cheetah could still be used, but she could be what looks like part of a smaller plot that gives way to a bigger plot and bigger villain behind it all. So Cheetah is more of a pawn or the means by which WW stumbles upon something bigger.
You're right, Brosnan's a bit... light. Still, Craig playing a villain is a pipe dream. Look at where his career is now, he's not worried about being remembered, nor does he show any signs of wanting to diversify.

I could see Cheetah used like that though. That's cool.

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Old 11-18-2012, 05:36 PM   #47
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But in all reality, they're totally going to objectify her. It's just too easy. Look at her costume.
Well... Debatable. The audience might but I think the Director/Producers will try their best to not objectify her.

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Old 11-18-2012, 07:51 PM   #48
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ok just seen john carter for first time and man it is a damn shame lynn collins will be aged out she was awesome and gave a great performance in that film and would make a perfect Diana

specifically her physique in john carter imo is what the actress should aspire to look like when cast as WW she was muscular but also very toned

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Old 11-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #49
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She won't be aged out, she just looks older than her age.


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Old 11-18-2012, 08:58 PM   #50
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ok just seen john carter for first time and man it is a damn shame lynn collins will be aged out she was awesome and gave a great performance in that film and would make a perfect Diana

specifically her physique in john carter imo is what the actress should aspire to look like when cast as WW she was muscular but also very toned
It is indeed a damn shame. oh well.

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