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Old 01-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #801
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
Let me point out our director is American and so he may be doing it the way he's used to.
(Slow news day, folks--we're talking about clapboards)

Well, here are the reasons why I think it's plausible that they might be using the European system:

1. The majority of the crew likely is European, and it might be less confusing for most of the team for them to use that system. (The Wikipedia page says it is the script supervisor who makes the decision as to which system will be used.)
2. Using slate numbering might allow them to keep the order of the scenes shrouded in mystery and unrevealed to all the excited little fangirls and fanboys who are shooting home movies from the 4th floor window and posting them on YouTube or analyzing them on message boards!

About half the pictures on the Wikipedia page to which I linked showed clapboards using the European system.

Now, if we could zoom on any of the pictures of clapboards from T:TDW we are able to find (or if someone who was there who remembers could post), we might be able to read either the word "scene" or "slate" and resolve it once and for all.

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Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
That V may stand for 5 possibly, on of the boards pictured on that site has a VI for one of the things (so maybe roll 5?)
Could be. Or possibly camera angle?

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Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
on that video you posted, I wouldn't swear to it, but I'd say XV and 137 I think... the next box is blank I think, and then there is something at the end I'm not sure of ... maybe 3A (less sure on that, more certain of XV 137 at the beginning)
Interesting. Thanks!

Here's another one, but I think the image resolution is too small to read whether it says "scene" or "slate":
http://www.bscine.com/2012/12/update...he-dark-world/
Same with this one:


Oh well!

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Old 01-17-2013, 02:01 PM   #802
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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(Slow news day, folks--we're talking about clapboards)
I think it could actually be extremely helpful. I'm on the lookout for any more.

I think I'm going with that being scene number, if you dont agree, fine. We'll agree to disagree on that point. But I just find it extremely unlikely that it's not the scene number.

I'll try and find that other pic in a bigger picture if I can, hard to see here. I think V128 K 3, the first one I pointed out was V128 K 1 on it, different clapboard and guy interestingly, so maybe the last number is not the take as I was thinking, maybe camera? (edit: actually could still be take I guess... not important)

Looking on the site that shall not be linked, I found a bunch of summoning pictures and videos of Malekith, both rehearsal and actual filming. He's standing with his back to the pile of rubble at the top of the steps, with his arms raised, and a big spotlight behind him. The spotlight would seem would be blocked by any spaceship if there was one, so if it's a portal he's opening, then it seems very unlikely that there is a large spaceship there, and if he's opening a portal/summoning something, it appears to be exactly above where the rubble pile is.


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Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 PM   #803
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I think it could actually be extremely helpful. I'm on the lookout for any more.
Oh, definitely! I wish I had grasped this detail at the time filming was still underway. Then we could have appealed to those who went down to the locations to try to ascertain which system was being used!

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I think I'm going with that being scene number, if you dont agree, fine. We'll agree to disagree on that point. But I just find it extremely unlikely that it's not the scene number.
Well, I'm just trying to sound a note of caution that there is more than one possible interpretation.

Now, with slate numbers, it may still be that "big slate number" translates to "late in the film". But it might not be the same "scale", if you will, as it would be for scene numbers. In other words, what numbers would be considered "big" slate numbers would not the same as what would be considered "big" scene numbers.

Looking at the Wikipedia article, it looks like the slate number incorporates the camera angle and the take number (so, they increment the slate number each time they shoot from a different angle or take another take). So my rough guess would be that they would accumulate at least 6x as many slate numbers as scene numbers. So if "128" is a slate number, it might refer to scene 21, for example.

What would really be helpful would be to find a picture of a clapboard from Bourne Woods. Then likely whichever number was bigger corresponds to footage that comes later in the film, regardless of the system being used.

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Looking on the site that shall not be linked,
Ya mean the one dedicated to graphicnovelfilmography?

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Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
I found a bunch of summoning pictures and videos of Malekith, both rehearsal and actual filming. He's standing with his back to the pile of rubble at the top of the steps, with his arms raised, and a big spotlight behind him. The spotlight would seem would be blocked by any spaceship if there was one, so if it's a portal he's opening, then it seems very unlikely that there is a large spaceship there, and if he's opening a portal/summoning something, it appears to be exactly above where the rubble pile is.
Makes sense.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:16 PM   #804
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http://www.ehow.com/about_6329516_mo...-analysis.html

Quote:
, and American film crews adopt the American pattern while filming in Europe.
The Director is American, The Filmographer is American, Marvel Studios is American, Film editor, not sure if American or not but has done a lot of work for HBO and American TV... shall I go on?


Quote:
Ya mean the one dedicated to graphicnovelfilmography?


yeah with an article written by ACspectacularnewkid


OK here is a bigger pic of that pic but still cant read scene/take or whatever.. can read much of it more clearly though... spoiler tagging due to size...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:






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Old 01-17-2013, 03:57 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
http://www.ehow.com/about_6329516_mo...-analysis.html
<quoting from the article>
Quote:
and American film crews adopt the American pattern while filming in Europe.
Hold that thought.

This article is aimed at people getting started in the industry. http://www.theblackandblue.com/2012/...-film-slate-1/

The author describes the American system. In the comments, several people describe the systems used in various countries, including the UK. One person commented that sometimes people use their own custom system. Since the "V128K" shown in the clapperboard in the pic you posted below doesn't conform to any of the systems described in the comments, I suppose they are using a custom system. From the quote above, perhaps they are using a modified version of the American system

(Or perhaps not. . . BTW, I'm not trying to say you're wrong. All I'm saying is that another interpretation is possible because there is more than one system in use.)


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OK here is a bigger pic of that pic but still cant read scene/take or whatever.. can read much of it more clearly though... spoiler tagging due to size...<pic deleted>
It *is* much clearer. But no, we still can't read the crucial text! hahaha

Thanks for posting it.

BTW, one thing we can read on the clapperboard is "DAY/EXT". So that means that these dark elves are running around in the daylight--not afraid of the sunshine at all!

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Old 01-17-2013, 04:07 PM   #806
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BTW, one thing we can read on the clapperboard is "DAY/EXT". So that means that these dark elves are running around in the daylight--not afraid of the sunshine at all!
well as I think sam pointed out they will shoot in the sunshine but use a camera filter to make it look like night on camera, but in any case, that may not be a problem anyway. LOL It was in the myths not in the comics so they may not use it.

I've read way more that I would ever want to about reading these things and still having trouble figuring this out. I will post this link however, scroll down to an Avengers clapperboard. I believe Iron Man near the end probably? Can't read too clearly but it says B173B where I think scene would be, and there is another one not long before that that does say scene and R27A... so same format as we see the place I believe is scene indicator.

http://www.theblackandblue.com/2012/...-film-slate-2/


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Old 01-17-2013, 04:37 PM   #807
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<DAY/EXT.>
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well as I think sam pointed out they will shoot in the sunshine but use a camera filter to make it look like night on camera, but in any case, that may not be a problem anyway. LOL It was in the myths not in the comics so they may not use it.
I thought of that. Here is an explanation of these designations as used in scripts: http://www.hollywoodlitsales.com/cgi....pl?index=3960
So "DAY" in a script refers to the use of day lighting and "NIGHT" refers to the use of night lighting. That's the night filter to which you and CherokeeSam are referring. I am assuming, however, that what's written on the clapperboard corresponds to what's written in the script. But that seems reasonable, does it not?

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I've read way more that I would ever want to about reading these things and still having trouble figuring this out. I will post this link however, scroll down to an Avengers clapperboard. I believe Iron Man near the end probably? Can't read too clearly but it says B173B where I think scene would be, and there is another one not long before that that does say scene and R27A... so same format as we see the place I believe is scene indicator.

http://www.theblackandblue.com/2012/...-film-slate-2/
Well, in the article, the author says that the "R" in "R27A" refers to "reshoot". In the Avengers picture, I think he was illustrating a naming scheme when grabbing footage that helps with special effects work. In the previous example, they had written "PLATE VFX" in the "take" box, whereas in the Avengers pic, they had written "3 MOS" (motor only shot, a shot without sound) and had a piece of tape on the board down below that says "FX".

So this doesn't explain what "B173B" means. My guess is that 173 is a scene number, and the second "B" is the shot (angle/closeup/lens, whatever) (the 2nd one, in this case). But I don't know what the first "B" designates.

Applying the same guesses to the dark elves pic, I suppose it is indeed scene 128, shot K (the 11th shot of this scene!). Maybe "V" indicates visual effects are involved? The roll? <shrug>

Of course, the original thing you posted also was 128K, so maybe this is not the right interpretation.

I can't quite read what it says underneath the "V128K" in that dark elves pic. Might be interesting.

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Old 01-17-2013, 04:56 PM   #808
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yup. it probably is day, they probably won't use the turns to stone in daylight thing since they didnt use that in the comics.

Quote:
Well, in the article, the author says that the "R" in "R27A" refers to "reshoot". In the Avengers picture, I think he was illustrating a naming scheme when grabbing footage that helps with special effects work. In the previous example, they had written "PLATE VFX" in the "take" box, whereas in the Avengers pic, they had written "3 MOS" (motor only shot, a shot without sound) and had a piece of tape on the board down below that says "FX".

So this doesn't explain what "B173B" means. My guess is that 173 is a scene number, and the second "B" is the shot (angle/closeup/lens, whatever) (the 2nd one, in this case). But I don't know what the first "B" designates.

Applying the same guesses to the dark elves pic, I suppose it is indeed scene 128, shot K (the 11th shot of this scene!). Maybe "V" indicates visual effects are involved? The roll? <shrug>
I'm thinking V in this context is Visual effects. Not sure what to make of the first B in the Avengers one, however Iron Man IS beat up, so definitely a shot nearer the end of the film, maybe when he's confronting Loki or talking to Erik at Stark Tower. So it would seem that 173 is a likely number for the scene in any case (have never found a script online for Avengers, have you?)

and then that other one I was thinking said XV before the numbers, so will have to look at that again. could still be related to visual effects sequences considering what they were filming.

Quote:
Of course, the original thing you posted also was 128K, so maybe this is not the right interpretation.
actually in the first one I posted I wasn't sure if it was K or R, to be honest with you. will look at it again after dinner.

Quote:
I can't quite read what it says underneath the "V128K" in that dark elves pic. Might be interesting.
I can't either. I tried.

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Old 01-17-2013, 05:17 PM   #809
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I'm thinking V in this context is Visual effects. Not sure what to make of the first B in the Avengers one, however Iron Man IS beat up, so definitely a shot nearer the end of the film, maybe when he's confronting Loki or talking to Erik at Stark Tower. So it would seem that 173 is a likely number for the scene in any case (have never found a script online for Avengers, have you?)
No, but I did find this article about The Avengers script having been stolen. It includes a few pictures of a few pages. Scene 137 is where Black Widow assuring Banner that they will get through this (he is struggling not to change to Hulk)

http://www.ugo.com/movies/avengers-s...ossibly-delays

So in light of that, 173 probably isn't as far along as the end of the film. Maybe it's when Iron Man is out trying to get the engine restarted.

(Every time they cut away, it's a different scene. Scene 136 is also on that page--it consists only of Stark saying to Captain America that they need to go out to Engine Three).

Hmmm, the implication is that if 128 is indeed the scene number for Thor2, it may not be all that late in the film. It depends on whether the presentation goes back and forth among action sequences taking place in several locations. (For example, there are a lot of bits in The Avengers where the team is talking back and forth on invisible earpieces. So we cut from avenger to avenger. That is, except for Thor, lol)

A picture of a clapperboard from one of the other locations would be *very* helpful.

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Old 01-17-2013, 06:14 PM   #810
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just took a quick fast forward look from the BW scene you mentioned at 137 on, and based on that I place when Iron Man talks to Erik before he confronts Loki in the mid 170s, I think. It is definitely prior to Loki tossing him out the window since that is a different suit (round piece in front instead of triangle). Now the suit at that point is quite a bit more messed up than it is in that picture, but it may be they added a bunch more gashes and such in post production. I don't see them going from BW trying to calm Banner in scene 137 and have Iron Man dealing with the engine's in 178, not enough there, but I don't see where else that could be from.

Seems to me like the Greenwich stuff (that we saw markers for) is probably about the beginning of last 3rd of the film. and probably means there is another big battle after Malekith and the Dark Elves are taken out. That Black Widow scene starts Chapter 12 on the DVD with 19 chapters, then 20 for end credits scene. So if the Greenwich stuff is at Chapter 11/12/13 on the DVD, at the same time of the group fighting and the Hellicarrier is attacked, then, probably those scenes are taking the same point, and for a similar purpose, in that film. Just when they think they have everything is under control, SURPRISE!

As for Thor 1, I mentioned around 122 the Destroyer arrives on Midgard, and 137 (Malekith - Thor fight in Thor 2) being around after Thor defeated the Destroyer and is calling to open the Bifrost. That's at chapter 13, with 14 chapters (plus one end credits scene). So that's quite a bit shorter, but hopefully this one will be longer anyway. Plus I think we had longer scenes in Thor 1 (like Loki and Odin the Vault) rather than so many cuts from scene to scene we had often in Avengers. And I predict Thor 2 will have more action cuts from scene to scene and less long character scenes in Thor 2, a bit more like Avengers in that sense... and definitely longer than Thor 1. So basically 128-137, stuff is hitting the fan but I dont think this is quite the BIG final battle. Of course we only saw these two scene numbers, so could be others we didn't see that are much higher or lower. *shrugs* Either way, I'd say not at the beginning!

and again, as in Avengers, in Thor 1 prior to the Destroyer scenes on Midgard, things seemed to be going ok and under control for our hero, even if he is mortal, then the **** hits the fan and choices have to be made and a fight to be fought. So I think that's what we are going to get as far as the function of these scenes here, but again, not necessarily the end BIG fight.

Just looked at some time lengths, and Thor 1 was only 114 minutes (Hulk 113), compared to Cap 1 and IM2 around 124, Avengers 143! We got jipped on Thor 1! I would hope Thor 2 will be longer!


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Old 01-17-2013, 07:38 PM   #811
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just took a quick fast forward look from the BW scene you mentioned at 137 on, and based on that I place when Iron Man talks to Erik before he confronts Loki in the mid 170s, I think. It is definitely prior to Loki tossing him out the window since that is a different suit (round piece in front instead of triangle). Now the suit at that point is quite a bit more messed up than it is in that picture, but it may be they added a bunch more gashes and such in post production. I don't see them going from BW trying to calm Banner in scene 137 and have Iron Man dealing with the engine's in 178, not enough there, but I don't see where else that could be from.
Makes sense. Thanks!

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Seems to me like the Greenwich stuff (that we saw markers for) is probably about the beginning of last 3rd of the film. and probably means there is another big battle after Malekith and the Dark Elves are taken out. That Black Widow scene starts Chapter 12 on the DVD with 19 chapters, then 20 for end credits scene. So if the Greenwich stuff is at Chapter 11/12/13 on the DVD, at the same time of the group fighting and the Hellicarrier is attacked, then, probably those scenes are taking the same point, and for a similar purpose, in that film. Just when they think they have everything is under control, SURPRISE!
Awesome!!


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Plus I think we had longer scenes in Thor 1 (like Loki and Odin the Vault)
Yeah. From all accounts, it sounds like they will pick up the pace in this film. And everyone will be pleased!

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Either way, I'd say not at the beginning!
And, interestingly, not at the end.

Actually, that's very interesting, considering the "moral sacrifice" angle we've been discussing. I would have thought that the big decision would come right at the denouement, analogous to Thor's decision to smash the Bifrost (scene 158 of 162).

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Just looked at some time lengths, and Thor 1 was only 114 minutes (Hulk 113), compared to Cap 1 and IM2 around 124, Avengers 143! We got jipped on Thor 1! I would hope Thor 2 will be longer!
They could have kept the deleted scenes--at least the ones with Frigga!

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Old 01-17-2013, 08:13 PM   #812
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And, interestingly, not at the end.

Actually, that's very interesting, considering the "moral sacrifice" angle we've been discussing. I would have thought that the big decision would come right at the denouement, analogous to Thor's decision to smash the Bifrost (scene 158 of 162).
well I think the BIG decision may come late, if either Odin decides he's too interested in Midgard to properly rule Asgard and the 9 realms, or Thor decides that himself, or that Earth needs him too much, or if he decides he must stay as a first line of defense against Surtur coming, if that's how the prophecy works for Ragnarok. Then that decision would likely come at the very end after the BIG fight. And I think we've speculated that it might be tricky for Thor to show up for A2 if he's King of Asgard, and so he may very well decide to abdicate and stay on Earth, (with or without Jane) at the end of Thor 2. But he hasn't necessarily decided that when he decides to go stop Malekith and the Elves.

Interestingly, Jaimie was quoted recently comparing her Last Stand Character and Sif, saying that both are by the book and Sif does what the king tells her, but then she says that both in the end do what they want and let their hair down. Not sure what the hair references are, lol, but it seems like Sif may be likely to do some defying by the end of the film, and that may be part of her story arc, so it may be even though we don't see them at Greenwich, that Thor does get some Asgardian help in the final battle, if it's on Earth.

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Old 01-17-2013, 08:40 PM   #813
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and here's a little something maybe... those 3 scratches on his forehead all throughout Greenwich filming, I don't think I saw a picture with nothing there. But I cant figure out how they got there by the elves, no fingernails showing that I can see and those claw weapons they have only have 2 sharp points, not 3.... It looks like a cat's scratch almost, and seems too small damage to be from Kurse.... so... then I remembered Hela's touch. Hm... I wonder if instead of her getting a good grip on his face and really ruining him (which seems unlikely they'd do), Hela just gets a good scratch in, and that takes a while to heal. (no scratches on his face in Bourne that I've found, Jaimie has one on her forehead there). It also occurred to me that Hela could have make Malekith half dead with her touch, maybe after him failing her or something.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




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Old 01-17-2013, 09:32 PM   #814
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and here's a little something maybe... those 3 scratches on his forehead all throughout Greenwich filming, I don't think I saw a picture with nothing there. But I cant figure out how they got there by the elves, no fingernails showing that I can see and those claw weapons they have only have 2 sharp points, not 3.... It looks like a cat's scratch almost, and seems too small damage to be from Kurse....
I agree with you that there seem to be no pictures from Bourne Woods that include the scratches, and no pictures from U-Greenwich that do *not* have the scratches.

The pictures I've seen have two scratches on the right forehead, one scratch on the right cheekbone. The cheekbone scratch looks more like an abrasion. For example:


As for it being too small for Kurse, people's comment at the time was that it must have been a huge hit on Thor for it to show up on him at all. So it doesn't seem out of line for Kurse. That said, I don't believe Kurse put a scratch on him in the Simonson book.


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so... then I remembered Hela's touch. Hm... I wonder if instead of her getting a good grip on his face and really ruining him (which seems unlikely they'd do), Hela just gets a good scratch in, and that takes a while to heal. (no scratches on his face in Bourne that I've found, Jaimie has one on her forehead there).
Possibly. I can see that

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It also occurred to me that Hela could have make Malekith half dead with her touch, maybe after him failing her or something.
I'm not certain she has that fine of control. Plus, the damaged section of Malekith's face looks like it has a radius to it, like it was from a blast. It's not exactly down the middle of his face (see photos below). Your sunshine idea I think has the right mechanism. It's just with the V128K scene being "DAY/EXT.", it's probably not sunshine per se. But maybe a blast of some sort.



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Old 01-17-2013, 09:36 PM   #815
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well I think the BIG decision may come late, if either Odin decides he's too interested in Midgard to properly rule Asgard and the 9 realms, or Thor decides that himself, or that Earth needs him too much, or if he decides he must stay as a first line of defense against Surtur coming, if that's how the prophecy works for Ragnarok. Then that decision would likely come at the very end after the BIG fight. And I think we've speculated that it might be tricky for Thor to show up for A2 if he's King of Asgard, and so he may very well decide to abdicate and stay on Earth, (with or without Jane) at the end of Thor 2. But he hasn't necessarily decided that when he decides to go stop Malekith and the Elves.
All very interesting!

Yeah, it's not clear that they're ready to rotate Thor out of the lineup on the Avengers. So I have to think that he's not king at the end of the film, likely staying on Earth, because they still need him. That's certainly in line with how things went in the Simonson run.

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Old 01-17-2013, 11:05 PM   #816
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and actually in support of some kind of ship landing at Greenwich there we have this old report (from Marvel Freshman) of the Studio notice that went with the scenes where we saw people watch something come across the water and then panic and run.

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"Thursday Mourning" is the working title of a major feature film and we are currently working with many iconic locations across central London. One of our key locations in the film is the Old Naval College at Greenwich and we have various scenes to film that involve the Thames at high tide, camera boats, and aerial filming from a helicopter. To achieve this, we have to film before the clocks change, and the tides are right, and this has fallen on Sunday 21st October

We are currently liaising with all the official bodies regarding permissions. To achieve the aerial shots from the Helicopter, we plan so fly from the North Shore (Over Island Gardens), directly south to the South Shore of the Thames, starting at 500ft descending to 100 ft. (Almost exactly where the Cable wire camera was positioned for the Olympic coverage). We are currently discussing our plans with the Port of London Authority (PLA) and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and a notice to mariners will be issued in due course.

We need to achieve this when the river is quiet from commercial vessels and the tides are right, which means we are proposing to shoot with the helicopter between the hours of 0700 and 1100.

The Helicopter will be in the air for 10-minute intervals through out the morning. As we film, we will need to hold river traffic with PLA river launches, and location security will assist with asking pedestrians and cyclists to wait momentarily on the Thames Path for short periods as the helicopter flies overhead. . When the Helicopter is not required it will travel East and land back at a predetermined landing pad.
Island Gardens is just slightly Northwest of University of Greenwich, so it would seem that possibly whatever it was lands there (especially if it's descending on it's way). Still don't know about the pillar falling the right or wrong way, perhaps a mistake or perhaps another reason. (also why does the identical pillar on the other building not get taken out, but whatever). And come to think of it, it would seem to mean that the Dark Elves come out of the nose end of it? Weird, isn't that?

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:03 AM   #817
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another little tid bit, go ahead and try to figure out Most of the stuff going on that they've filmed around there is in London and WEST of Greenwich, Thor and Jane come running in from the East, nothing that I know of for sure what filmed to the East (though there are a few places they've filmed I don't know where). Stonehenge is about 2 hours West

I looked at that first Clapper again, and it could be either V 128, 118, or 178 and either K or R. It's just not clear enough to be sure, my leaning was 128 though.


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Old 01-18-2013, 09:08 AM   #818
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and actually in support of some kind of ship landing at Greenwich there we have this old report (from Marvel Freshman) of the Studio notice that went with the scenes where we saw people watch something come across the water and then panic and run.

<notice deleted>

Island Gardens is just slightly Northwest of University of Greenwich, so it would seem that possibly whatever it was lands there (especially if it's descending on it's way). Still don't know about the pillar falling the right or wrong way, perhaps a mistake or perhaps another reason. (also why does the identical pillar on the other building not get taken out, but whatever). And come to think of it, it would seem to mean that the Dark Elves come out of the nose end of it? Weird, isn't that?
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another little tid bit, go ahead and try to figure out Most of the stuff going on that they've filmed around there is in London and WEST of Greenwich, Thor and Jane come running in from the East, nothing that I know of for sure what filmed to the East (though there are a few places they've filmed I don't know where). Stonehenge is about 2 hours West
First--wait, what--you're thinking it's a ship now? After you worked so hard to successfully convince me to abandon that idea? The irony tickles me. But sure! I'm happy to roll with that, too. We can always change it back to a portal later if new pieces of the puzzle point that way.

You raise a lot of good questions. So let me dig in:

Island Gardens is technically west of the pillars in question, but it is less west of the pillars than the pillars are west of the prime meridian.

I've marked on a Google map Island Gardens (A), where I think (and I think you think) the white motorcoach is (B), and where the staircase on the pile of rocks is (C). See this link: http://goo.gl/maps/7ZRhV
(If you want to add the Royal Observatory, it is at 51 28′ 40.12″ N, 0 0′ 5.31″ W. The prime meridian crosses that position).

It looks like the helicopter more or less flies perpendicular to the river's course at that point, leading to the courtyard where all the piles of dirt are.

I agree that the position of the pillar pieces don't mesh well with the trajectory of the ship. The ship would have to graze the pillar on the outside corner. Even then I would expect the pieces to fall in toward the building.

Possible explanation: the ship does not knock out the pillar. Instead, Thor slams Malekith through the pillars from the south to the north. Recall that Malekith confronts Jane & Co. in the building to the west, between this grassy area and King William Court. Thor enters and pushes Malekith toward the south. We had speculated at that time that the fight spills into the grassy area between the two buildings, and then goes north to the corner by where the Chapel of St. Peter and St. Paul is. (if you zoom in on the map, that landmark will come up by the corner where the knocked out pillars are). That would explain why Malekith has white powder on his shoulders--it comes from being pushed through the pillars.

As to why the pillars on the other side of the plaza aren't similarly knocked out by the space ship, there's either my explanation above, or the idea that it's a small space ship such that no part of the ship touches the other building.

Another idea on the dynamics of the ship landing: first it lands and then it skids. Recall that the two piles of rocks form a "T": the top of the "T" runs along the stone staircase that is there on the plaza, and the stem of the "T" runs down the courtyard that is between Queen Anne Court and the Trinity Laban Conservatore of Music and Dance. I had cited this "T" shape to the rubble as evidence against the object being a space ship, as it didn't seem like the right pattern for a ship's landing. This is the best I can do at the moment.

If the ship skids (and turns to its side), then you could have the dark elves coming out the side.

Regarding Thor and Jane running in from the east, I don't have an explanation for that. It's not that far to the east (still west of the prime meridian, for example), though.

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I looked at that first Clapper again, and it could be either V 128, 118, or 178 and either K or R. It's just not clear enough to be sure, my leaning was 128 though.
Yeah, I thought it was 128 also. With the scene with the dark elves being 128, that means that clapperboard was for that same scene. But that doesn't make sense. The clapperboard is supposed to give a visual and audio marker so the video and sound can be synched in editing. It's for a specific shot and scene no matter which convention you are using. Those clearly were two different clapperboards, so what gives? I suppose it means that the trailing letter on this one must be an "R", or at least a non-"K".

I could never read the clapperboard that was in the little bit where Bobby Holland Hanton got hoised up by the crane. I think you thought it was 137, but maybe it is part of scene 128 too.

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Old 01-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #819
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First--wait, what--you're thinking it's a ship now? After you worked so hard to successfully convince me to abandon that idea? The irony tickles me. But sure! I'm happy to roll with that, too. We can always change it back to a portal later if new pieces of the puzzle point that way.
Yeah... I know I know... I think though we have a portal probably happeing too, just not necessarily being opened right there in the middle of Univ. of Greenwich (although Malekith IS up to something there)

I am just realizing I've been confused about where exactly that line is. So with your map you linked among other things, I think I've come up with it. If a portal was opened due to the line being "sensitive" area for portals, then the ship maybe comes out somewhere North along the line more, like a bit East of Isle of Dogs and Canary Wharf, then travels off the line to where it crosses the Thames and crashes into Greenwich U. THEN, maybe we have Jane at the Royal Observatory (or along the line somewhere) having either opened a portal or just noticed that something unexpected had happened and was rushing over to see what crashed, that's where she runs into Thor who is also investigating the situation (and may be the reason why the ship crashes possibly, then he jumps off before it hits the ground). That's pretty tight isn't it?

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I could never read the clapperboard that was in the little bit where Bobby Holland Hanton got hoised up by the crane. I think you thought it was 137, but maybe it is part of scene 128 too.
I'll look again but I was pretty confident on the 137

and an idea of what Malekith is doing in front of the rubble area, where I noted a few posts ago he was standing in front of a big light that is over where the rubble area/spaceship would be. Is it possible he is changing the ship into something else magically? That would take A LOT of power but he would appear to be powered up when he's fighting Thor. We know he can change himself, and I do see the WIki page lists among his powers ability to change the shape and appearance of other objects as well as himself, or maybe it's Malekith himself who changes into something bigger for Thor to fight at that point, but it doesn't really look like that in the footage to me.

Also... http://marvel.wikia.com/Malekith_(Earth-616)

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Magical Energy Manipulation: Malekith can manipulate great amounts of mystical energy for a number of purposes. Malekith has been known to often use his mystical powers to alter his shape and appearance. He can even use this ability to transform himself into a mist-like substance, allowing him to fly through the air over great distances. He is also capable of using this same energy to teleport himself across great distances, including between dimensional barriers. Malekith can also generate powerful blasts of concussive energy for destructive purposes. It is also believed that Malekith can use this mystical energy to increase most, if not all, of his superhuman physical attributes temporarily. He has used it to increase his physical strength and, since he was believed to have been killed by Kurse after having his neck broken, it is believed that he used his knowledge of sorcery beforehand to increase the limits of his natural healing abilities and for the purpose of appearing to be dead.
The quote about mist like substance, reminds me of a photo at Bourne where a bunch of Asgardians are standing in front of a big fog machine and seem to be looking at it. So could be Malekith has transformed himself either to escape or arrive. We didn't see Chris E. there, but Malekith could have been looking like someone else and got caught, so might not have been much need of Chris to be there more than a day if at all.

One thing I thought about in regards to Hela and her touch, and Malekith powering up, is if it was a trade off for extra powers, that she sap some of his soul, lifeforce, whatever they want to call it, as a trade for whatever boost she gives him powerwise. a deal with the devil, if you will...


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Old 01-18-2013, 10:31 AM   #820
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We're analyzing scratches on Thor's face now?

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:41 AM   #821
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I agree with you that there seem to be no pictures from Bourne Woods that include the scratches, and no pictures from U-Greenwich that do *not* have the scratches.

The pictures I've seen have two scratches on the right forehead, one scratch on the right cheekbone. The cheekbone scratch looks more like an abrasion. For example:


As for it being too small for Kurse, people's comment at the time was that it must have been a huge hit on Thor for it to show up on him at all. So it doesn't seem out of line for Kurse. That said, I don't believe Kurse put a scratch on him in the Simonson book.
Yeah. I mean, Hulk's full body punch gave him a nose bleed, hardly. So it would take atleast that to damage his face like that. If he is getting whipped around by Kurse, I wouldn't be surprised if he did that to him, by contact with the ground or sometihng.

I may recall where Kurse has messed up thor before. Either way, scratches or not, Kurse usually gives thor a pretty good pummeling. They're just on different levels in terms of strength



Quote:
Possibly. I can see that



I'm not certain she has that fine of control. Plus, the damaged section of Malekith's face looks like it has a radius to it, like it was from a blast. It's not exactly down the middle of his face (see photos below). Your sunshine idea I think has the right mechanism. It's just with the V128K scene being "DAY/EXT.", it's probably not sunshine per se. But maybe a blast of some sort.


I'd assume it was because of battle or something as well, or a blast, or exposer. In the comics one side is darker, like in that picture, but here it clearly is definitally suppose to be burned. Idk about sunlight though, because he seems to be out in light here. He's not a vampire lol. But a blast certainly could do it. Perhaps Odin, perhaps Surtur? Maybe he's been in league with him before, and is trying to proove himself worth of an ally to him. Burnnt possibly = fire = muspelheim = Surtur, possible.

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:41 AM   #822
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We're analyzing scratches on Thor's face now?
plenty of time for it while we wait for the movie, so why the hell not?

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #823
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Yeah. I mean, Hulk's full body punch gave him a nose bleed, hardly. So it would take atleast that to damage his face like that. If he is getting whipped around by Kurse, I wouldn't be surprised if he did that to him, by contact with the ground or sometihng.

I may recall where Kurse has messed up thor before. Either way, scratches or not, Kurse usually gives thor a pretty good pummeling. They're just on different levels in terms of strength
And that's possible, I just thought it looked like a scratch which seems like Kurse would be more pummelling than scratching but maybe...., and if Hela's touch is so bad then a scratch from her could do that, I'd think, they are certainly not going to have her grab Thor's face and wreck it for an extended period of time.


Quote:
I'd assume it was because of battle or something as well, or a blast, or exposer. In the comics one side is darker, like in that picture, but here it clearly is definitally suppose to be burned. Idk about sunlight though, because he seems to be out in light here. He's not a vampire lol. But a blast certainly could do it. Perhaps Odin, perhaps Surtur? Maybe he's been in league with him before, and is trying to proove himself worth of an ally to him. Burnnt possibly = fire = muspelheim = Surtur, possible.
maybe, but then why would he work for Surtur if he scarred him permanently like this for no reason? I suppose we could go back to it being a trade off for extra powers from Surtur, but then I don't know why Surtur would do that to him as a trade off, Hela maybe, but it doesn't work for Surtur I don't think. Or actually, if he fails Surtur earlier in the film, he could scar him then as punishment, and then that makes Malekith more desperate not to fail again. Maybe...

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:49 AM   #824
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We're analyzing scratches on Thor's face now?
We're looking for clues about the plot of the movie in a number of places. Little details can reveal important things. Like Elizah's spotting of the clapperboard number that she brought up yesterday. That puts the U-Greenwich footage later in the movie than we all thought (at least, everyone who voiced an opinion). A little detail became a big deal!

You're certainly welcome to analyze something else. You'll probably be able to help us figure out something important, and we'd love to have your input. A fresh pair of eyes and a different perspective tends to do that!

Looking forward to hearing from you!

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Old 01-18-2013, 11:14 AM   #825
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Yeah... I know I know... I think though we have a portal probably happeing too, just not necessarily being opened right there in the middle of Univ. of Greenwich (although Malekith IS up to something there)
He's a sneaky one! I can see why Thor would want to get down to Midgard, to keep an eye on him. . . .

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I am just realizing I've been confused about where exactly that line is. So with your map you linked among other things, I think I've come up with it. If a portal was opened due to the line being "sensitive" area for portals, then the ship maybe comes out somewhere North along the line more, like a bit East of Isle of Dogs and Canary Wharf, then travels off the line to where it crosses the Thames and crashes into Greenwich U. THEN, maybe we have Jane at the Royal Observatory (or along the line somewhere) having either opened a portal or just noticed that something unexpected had happened and was rushing over to see what crashed, that's where she runs into Thor who is also investigating the situation (and may be the reason why the ship crashes possibly, then he jumps off before it hits the ground). That's pretty tight isn't it?
Yeah, pretty good!

The prime meridian is <anything> N, 0 0′ 5.31″ W.

New map: http://goo.gl/maps/vKDls (A) is the Royal Observatory (ie, 51 28′ 40.12″ N, 0 0′ 5.31″ W), (B) is another point along the Prime Meridian, and (C) is again where the staircase over the pile of dirt is. So you could have the dark elf ship appear over London a little bit north along the Prime Meridian line and follow the course you describe. Maybe Thor intercepts it and pushes it off course.

It looks like there are paths that would take Jane up from the Royal Observatory to where the white motorcoach is. And maybe Thor could part company with the ship when it's over the Thames (and about to crash) and land in the alley that we see him run out of in the footage.

Very cool!

Now, here's a piece that, unfortunately, does not fit: there's the footage acquired with a camera mounted to a motorbike along Butler's wharf (I was looking at it yesterday hoping there would be a clapperboard there). That's to the northwest of U-Greenwich. Don't have an immediate explanation of what that is.

BTW, does Thor have Mjolnir when he runs by the white motorcoach?

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and an idea of what Malekith is doing in front of the rubble area, where I noted a few posts ago he was standing in front of a big light that is over where the rubble area/spaceship would be. Is it possible he is changing the ship into something else magically? That would take A LOT of power but he would appear to be powered up when he's fighting Thor.
Maybe! That would be cool if so.

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Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
We know he can change himself, and I do see the WIki page lists among his powers ability to change the shape and appearance of other objects as well as himself, or maybe it's Malekith himself who changes into something bigger for Thor to fight at that point, but it doesn't really look like that in the footage to me.
You'll recall in the Simonson run, when Thor has his big fight with Malekith in Svartalfheim, at one point Malekith changes into a big warrior. (Issue #348, I believe). And at U-Greenwich, Thor shadowboxes, I believe, in the grassy area between King William Court and the building that has the Chapel of St. Peter and St. Paul. So maybe after Thor pushes Malekith away from Jane & Co and out into the yard, Malekith changes into something impressive and they fight in the yard before Thor knocks him back through the pillars (the blow forcing him back to his true form).

<quote from the Marvel Wikia deleted>

Yeah, BigThor had mentioned the mist at one point.

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The quote about mist like substance, reminds me of a photo at Bourne where a bunch of Asgardians are standing in front of a big fog machine and seem to be looking at it. So could be Malekith has transformed himself either to escape or arrive. We didn't see Chris E. there, but Malekith could have been looking like someone else and got caught, so might not have been much need of Chris to be there more than a day if at all.
Ooo, that would be interesting!

And maybe Eccleston's stunt performer was there, akin to how Natalie Portman's body double was in Iceland.

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One thing I thought about in regards to Hela and her touch, and Malekith powering up, is if it was a trade off for extra powers, that she sap some of his soul, lifeforce, whatever they want to call it, as a trade for whatever boost she gives him powerwise. a deal with the devil, if you will...
Could be.

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