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Old 11-21-2012, 01:42 AM   #101
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

The mask would definitely work

The mutations route is terrible mainly because we need to see the Villian and the industrialist throught out the film.It wont make sense to go the Hulk route and make him green when he turns angry or something

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Old 11-21-2012, 01:47 AM   #102
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

Yeah I really, really hate the transformation suggestions because people don't think a mask wouldn't work. That's ridiculous and stupid if you ask me.

In production, it doesn't even need to be a real mask. As some others have said, make it prosthetics and stuff. Much like Red Skull in CA:TFA. I don't see why it wouldn't work at all.

All of a sudden people want to kill one of the biggest (and definitely the most exciting) character traits of Norman Osborn? Because yes, it's not only about the mask and suit themselves. But some people don't seem to know that.

Wow I really hope Webb & Co don't listen to that stupidity and takes the right decision or else he'll ruin GG and the death of Gwen saga.

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Old 11-21-2012, 02:23 AM   #103
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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It's just a very weird thing to do. In the books, the mask always changed expression according to what he was doing or saying, which was kind of creepy, but was just what the artists did.
Maybe Norman could steal an animatronic Goblin mask & suit from Quentin Beck/Mysterio, maybe that is who the store robber & shooter of Uncle Ben will turn out to be in an Amazing Spider-Man sequel.

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Old 11-21-2012, 03:19 AM   #104
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

how about make-up... y'know as in war-paint

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Old 11-21-2012, 06:45 AM   #105
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

could you really have a mask that will move with his mouth? or will norman have to put green make up on the places the mask doesnt cover before he leaves.

I don't think its people not being imaginative and not understanding the character but more thinking About quality control, after all raimi didnt go that route :/

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Old 11-21-2012, 09:13 AM   #106
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Why make his skin green and that kind of ********? Just stick to the 616 comics and have him be "normal" looking as Osborn and have a Green Goblin SUIT.

I don't get why there's a need to change for the sake of changing. Don't fix what ain't broken. He won't be too much like Dafoe's Green Goblin because the focus on Oscorp and Norman is much bigger here and that alone is different enough.

Even the slightest Goblin-ish transformation is taking a piss on the character of Norman. Someone here said "of course fanboys will complain anyway"...to that I say: you know nothing about the character of Norman Osborn/Green Goblin if you don't think that's a big deal.
Preach it!

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #107
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

Norman injecting himself with the serum, or a particular strain of the serum transforms him (evolves him) to the Goblin state. We don't need him becoming a monster, just change the skin tone and tweak the facial characterictics in a more subtle way.

If they want to go the Mission Impossible route in the film and have a lifelike Goblin mask that Norman creates and which shows facial characteristics & personality, it could work. But it would be prosthetics and make-up that achieve this (like Red Skull), so you may as well go with the mutation. The darkside of man's hubris.

What I'd like to see is the serum wearing off during a battle with Spidey and Norman has to inject himself with another vile to sustain himself. Like some desparate starving junkie.

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Old 11-21-2012, 01:15 PM   #108
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

^^ I like this idea! Exactly what I had in mind. If he mutates, then just use make up and masks like the Red Skull.

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Old 11-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #109
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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could you really have a mask that will move with his mouth? or will norman have to put green make up on the places the mask doesnt cover before he leaves.

I don't think its people not being imaginative and not understanding the character but more thinking About quality control, after all raimi didnt go that route :/
Here is a video of a silicone mask that has pretty good facial movements
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

They should show Norman putting one of these on in the movie when in reality the actor is wearing make-up, just so you can see every little movement that you can miss with those kinds of masks.

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Old 11-21-2012, 02:11 PM   #110
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

^ Exactly! It ain't too far fetched, so people should stop saying a mask wouldn't work already. So...there's really not a single reason to have Norman transform.

EDIT: Joker in TDK didn't have that huge smile like he does in many comics and cartoons. Did that hurt his character? Not a bit! Also, Massee has a pretty sinister smile already.

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Old 11-21-2012, 03:04 PM   #111
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

He had a glasgow smile, though.

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Old 11-21-2012, 05:05 PM   #112
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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He had a glasgow smile, though.
we're talking about Joker in TDK right now, right?

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Old 11-21-2012, 06:55 PM   #113
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1


Close enough.

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Old 11-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #114
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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we're talking about Joker in TDK right now, right?
Yes

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Old 11-21-2012, 09:14 PM   #115
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Yes
Ok good because I don't remember Norman having a glasgow smile.
Do you guys think that it would be ok if Goblin didn't have a hat, but still had the mask?

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Old 11-21-2012, 10:34 PM   #116
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Originally Posted by SoNicRaDiATioN View Post
Norman injecting himself with the serum, or a particular strain of the serum transforms him (evolves him) to the Goblin state. We don't need him becoming a monster, just change the skin tone and tweak the facial characterictics in a more subtle way.

If they want to go the Mission Impossible route in the film and have a lifelike Goblin mask that Norman creates and which shows facial characteristics & personality, it could work. But it would be prosthetics and make-up that achieve this (like Red Skull), so you may as well go with the mutation. The darkside of man's hubris.

What I'd like to see is the serum wearing off during a battle with Spidey and Norman has to inject himself with another vile to sustain himself. Like some desparate starving junkie.
I agree that prosthetic make-up and really good acting skills will be enough to give us the Goblin we need, I don't, however, agree with the idea of him repeatedly injecting the serum and it wearing off like that to evoke a junkie -- because, that's pretty much what we got with Connors in the last one.

Will a constant similarity between the villains help or hurt the series? I'm asking not being ironic.

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^ Exactly! It ain't too far fetched, so people should stop saying a mask wouldn't work already. So...there's really not a single reason to have Norman transform.

EDIT: Joker in TDK didn't have that huge smile like he does in many comics and cartoons. Did that hurt his character? Not a bit! Also, Massee has a pretty sinister smile already.
I'm up for Osborn not transforming -- the transformation, like in the original comics, needs to be psychological rather than physical. That's the concept of the character. And YES Joker in TDK -- he's from the same trickster archetype as the Goblin -- the filmmakers could learn a thing or two from that.

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Ok good because I don't remember Norman having a glasgow smile.
Do you guys think that it would be ok if Goblin didn't have a hat, but still had the mask?
It doesn't have to be a glasgow smile -- they used prosthetic make-up to give Heath Ledger the effect. You don't need a perpetual grin on Gobby since he does have his Norman Osborn persona that the Joker didn't. But the approach of something new while being traditional is still more appealing than just having him become a second Lizard -- the Goblin unlike in Ultimate, was never supposed to be this brute of a force.

And as for "change for the sake of change" that's unfortunately something that we'll just have to get used to with this series. I just hope there's some logical explanation to the changes.

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(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 11-21-2012, 10:57 PM   #117
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Personally, I think the classic Green Goblin design looks ridiculous.
It depends how it's done. Green spandex, a purple night cap and elf boots would be hard to pull off literally like it is in the comics.

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:20 PM   #118
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

A great way to use the classic look and not have some silly hat is to go the Hobgoblin look with a hood connected with a cape, imo.


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Old 11-21-2012, 11:57 PM   #119
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

You mean like this:



?

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 11-22-2012, 12:28 AM   #120
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment' View Post
I agree that prosthetic make-up and really good acting skills will be enough to give us the Goblin we need, I don't, however, agree with the idea of him repeatedly injecting the serum and it wearing off like that to evoke a junkie -- because, that's pretty much what we got with Connors in the last one.

Will a constant similarity between the villains help or hurt the series? I'm asking not being ironic.
Good point, too similar. Just shows how unmemorable and disappointing the Lizard was to me. We got the sandbox version.

The constant similarity will hurt the series if the writing is mundane and the direction uninspired. If the sequels script is as mediocre as TASM then the series is in trouble. This is it for Webb and co. The familiar beats of the origin story is behind them so there are no excuses. They have a real opportunity to take the franchise to the next level here. Although I don't believe we'll get anything special beyond great entertainment with this crew.


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I'm up for Osborn not transforming -- the transformation, like in the original comics, needs to be psychological rather than physical. That's the concept of the character. And YES Joker in TDK -- he's from the same trickster archetype as the Goblin -- the filmmakers could learn a thing or two from that.
The psychological component of Connors was thin to say the least. I wanted the Cronenberg treatment but we got the Sony/Arad treatment instead. They lack the stones and vision to take the franchise beyond the comic panels, so don't expect anything like TDK for Gobby, although thats what the character deserves. Plenty of smoke will be blown up our a**es though, I'm sure of that.

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Old 11-22-2012, 01:04 AM   #121
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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It doesn't have to be a glasgow smile -- they used prosthetic make-up to give Heath Ledger the effect. You don't need a perpetual grin on Gobby since he does have his Norman Osborn persona that the Joker didn't. But the approach of something new while being traditional is still more appealing than just having him become a second Lizard -- the Goblin unlike in Ultimate, was never supposed to be this brute of a force.
Agreed. Also since you mentioned the Lizard and the serum, I predict that the serum will be "fixed" so that Norman doesn't physically transform and the effects don't wear off.

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Old 11-22-2012, 03:12 AM   #122
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

Probably Electro zaps the serum and mutates it.

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Old 11-22-2012, 03:16 AM   #123
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Yeah I really, really hate the transformation suggestions because people don't think a mask wouldn't work. That's ridiculous and stupid if you ask me.

In production, it doesn't even need to be a real mask. As some others have said, make it prosthetics and stuff. Much like Red Skull in CA:TFA. I don't see why it wouldn't work at all.

All of a sudden people want to kill one of the biggest (and definitely the most exciting) character traits of Norman Osborn? Because yes, it's not only about the mask and suit themselves. But some people don't seem to know that.

Wow I really hope Webb & Co don't listen to that stupidity and takes the right decision or else he'll ruin GG and the death of Gwen saga.
Red skull was a mutated guy

How do you explain make up and prosthetics on GG?
Oh he likes to put products on his face before he goes to wreck havoc?

If they are going the mutated route then prosthetics would be better than CGI but not in the non-mutated goblin imo


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Old 11-22-2012, 03:41 AM   #124
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Good point, too similar. Just shows how unmemorable and disappointing the Lizard was to me. We got the sandbox version.
I still don't get how he goes from "scientist trying to perfect cross-species genetics" to "this is no longer about curing disease, it's about reaching perfection!" I mean sure you could say his mind was clouded or the fact that stop arguing this is what happened, and I get that but... no. That was out of character, and not even in the mind-effected-by-serum-turns-him-into-what-he-isn't sort of way.

Quote:
The constant similarity will hurt the series if the writing is mundane and the direction uninspired. If the sequels script is as mediocre as TASM then the series is in trouble. This is it for Webb and co. The familiar beats of the origin story is behind them so there are no excuses. They have a real opportunity to take the franchise to the next level here. Although I don't believe we'll get anything special beyond great entertainment with this crew.

The psychological component of Connors was thin to say the least. I wanted the Cronenberg treatment but we got the Sony/Arad treatment instead. They lack the stones and vision to take the franchise beyond the comic panels, so don't expect anything like TDK for Gobby, although thats what the character deserves. Plenty of smoke will be blown up our a**es though, I'm sure of that.
I think we can say that yeah the script was mediocre without offending any purists. It could've been better. I have hopes that they do make it better next time because at least they're putting in a lot of effort and they have a very good cast behind them.

Webb is a promising director -- it's just that on each of his movies he seems to make it look visually appealing but he misses something very fundamental even in the message. It was there in that Levitt romantic-comedy where while you're sympathetic for the guy you end up shaking your head because Webb's message seemed to be: a healthy relationship is in fate (don't ask why I had to see it). For Amazing he shows us Aunt May's reaction as though she knows, the same brilliant movie-moment from SM2's "hero" speech, only this time it comes off as parents being told to trust that their teenagers are doing the right thing even when they come home looking like they're on drugs.

Again, it's all there, he just seems to have a different mindset from most people. I hope he takes that and really gives us a great movie with part 2. I'm hopeful. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I'm thinking with sequels they'll use all that experience to make it better.

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Agreed. Also since you mentioned the Lizard and the serum, I predict that the serum will be "fixed" so that Norman doesn't physically transform and the effects don't wear off.
That'd actually be a sweet touch to continuity. I love the idea.

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Probably Electro zaps the serum and mutates it.
You really like his zapping powers don't you?

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Old 11-22-2012, 03:46 AM   #125
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Default Re: Jamie Foxx IS Electro - Part 1

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Red skull was a mutated guy

How do you explain make up and prosthetics on GG?
Oh he likes to put products on his face before he goes to wreck havoc?

If they are going the mutated route then prosthetics would be better than CGI but not in the non-mutated goblin imo
Well using prosthetic make-up for the effect doesn't necessarily mean he's using prosthetic make-up in the story. It could be called a super-science-mask or something.

In the original Raimi script they had a different approach than the exo-suit: it was that Norman exposes himself to the serum, gets crazy, and then high on insanity puts on the Goblin gear -- the mask and costume was a part of Norman's long collections he'd acquired with his money. No power-suit. There are some residual hints in the finished product: we have that scene where Norman's looking at all those stuffed animal-heads. The Goblin was originally meant to be one of those trophies that he puts on after going crazy.

Which explains why we never got an explanation about the very demon-like head-piece if the suit was meant to be used for the army.

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I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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