Uncle Ben's Killer

[Spider-Aziz]

I think the "he will be forgotten by Peter" is kinda too soon to judge

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

If Flint Marko was the killer from the very beginning and turned into Sandman, people would be less upset, imo, because TSSM did it so well with having Uncle Ben's killer being Black Cat's father from the beginning and no one really complained over that, so if the real killer ends up becoming a villain, I don't see any fuss. It's the retcon people seem to be much more upset about and it's the reason I am upset about Marko being the killer, the retcon only.

At least Ben was shot off screen in that movie
Imagine if they repeat the retcon move for one of TASM sequels, and we saw the thief shoot Ben in this film

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Web face

I agree that the original origin is great, but wasn't everyone complaining that the origin was too similar? This might be the kind of refreshing spin on things that the origin needed to be justified in the first place. Also, I just want to point out that Uncle Ben's little speech and his death still were the catalysts for Peter learning to become a hero. It seems like in Peter's anger, guilt, and sadness, Peter only kind of understood what Uncle Ben meant. He knew that he needed use his powers to do something, he just forgot what he was doing it for. It wasn't until he had someone else (Captain Stacy) describe to him what he was actually doing. From then on he realized Uncle Ben meant that he should be helping people, not just getting revenge.

I agree. Teenagers don't pick up on things right away. Peter is still a kid, and he is slowly learning what it means to be a hero. He is still learning responsibility.

Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz

I think the "he will be forgotten by Peter" is kinda too soon to judge
At least Ben was shot off screen in that movie
Imagine if they repeat the retcon move for one of TASM sequels, and we saw the thief shoot Ben in this film

He has the wanted poster up. He won't forget the killer.

Haha, you're right... we saw the shooting happen, so now they can't pull off something like Sandman being the real killer. It would be cool though if he was a henchman for Kingpin or something.

[OcStat]

I want to switch gears a bit and pose a question to you all.

There has been plenty of discussion on the Uncle Ben portion of Spider-Man and The Amazing Spider-Man, with some of us preferring the former and others the latter.

It can not be disputed that both films take creative liberties from the source material with the sequence of events leading to Ben's death. The source material being Amazing Fantasy 15 and the first arc of Ultimate Spider-Man, as both movies pick and choose elements from both of those books.

Out of all the differences regarding Ben's death in the comics, there is only one thing that stays the same in both comic book origins: Ben is murdered during a home invasion robbery gone wrong.

I am curious to see what peoples preferences are regarding this specific point. Do you think that change was warranted? Do you think any of the films improved on the origin?

[Picard Sisko]

Either way, the point gets across. Whether Ben is at his home or in the street somewhere, point is he got killed because Peter wasn't responsible enough to stop the thug.

[OcStat]

Well that's definitely true.

Frankly I don't understand why either film changed that part. Something about a robber breaking and entering, confronting Uncle Ben and Aunt May in their personal space seems more threatening.

I recall thinking in the theater during Spider-Man that as neat as the whole wrestling scene to the chase and warehouse is, Uncle Ben being car jacked was odd.

Peter let's the thug go and escape via the elevator. Next thing we see is Peter walking down some street that just so happens to be the same one his uncle was just shot on. He over hears the police radio and they let him run off, leaving his deceased uncle for the city coroner I guess. Uncle Ben didn't even know Peter wasn't going to the library, so its not like he was waiting to pick him up right out front the arena, and the burgler made a beeline for Ben's car. I got the impression Peter was walking for a while from the transition to that scene. It must have been sheer luck he wound up on the same block as Ben. Like I said, it is odd. Doesn't really detract from the movie, but it stood out to me at 14 despite the awe I was experiencing watching the closest thing to Spider-Man in real life. And it stands out more after TASM.

I didn't expect TASM to retell the origin going into the movie but I am glad Webb decided to do so. Peter storms out of the house right after his argument with Uncle Ben, and the fateful moment this time goes down right in his neighbourhood. Uncle Ben puts 2 and 2 together when he sees the shady character running at him and a clerk yelling "Stop that guy!", and actually does what Peter did not, and attempts to stop the thief. And Peter, only being up the block, hears the shot. Even though it also deviates from the home robbery, it seemed like a much better angle on that series of events than Spider-Man.

I was surprised they changed it again this time, especially with them sticking closer to certain parts of the comic books. I think the home invasion and Ben facing him in their house, with Aunt May there to witness it would potentially (surely) make for a more compelling scenario than either movie.

Edit- you know, I guess it could fall under some film makers desire to create something fresh, that they know the majority of the people buying the tickets haven't already seen in the comic. Which I respect and appreciate when I buy my ticket. These are adaptations after all, a key thing some forget when watching comic book movies. But sometimes it is just change for changes sake.

I also love that the Star-Tattoo Man is out and about. No way Peter is sitting around listening to X&Y and browsing Bing when he knows that guy is free to threaten someone else. Will he resume his manhunt?
Can't wait to see the sequel.

[The Slang]

Originally Posted by OcStat

Well that's definitely true.
Peter let's the thug go and escape via the elevator. Next thing we see is Peter walking down some street that just so happens to be the same one his uncle was just shot on. He over hears the police radio and they let him run off, leaving his deceased uncle for the city coroner I guess. Uncle Ben didn't even know Peter wasn't going to the library, so its not like he was waiting to pick him up right out front the arena, and the burgler made a beeline for Ben's car.

Peter didn't find his uncle by coincidence.

It seems obvious to me that Ben was shot on the same street where he had dropped Parker off. The last thing Ben says is 'pick you up here at 10'. The Library and the wrestling arena must have been close together, possibly on the same street. Ben was waiting by the library to pick up Parker, then get's car jacked. Parker leaves the arena, walks to the place where Ben told him he would be.

[The Slang]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

Haha, you're right... we saw the shooting happen, so now they can't pull off something like Sandman being the real killer. It would be cool though if he was a henchman for Kingpin or something.

Oh yes they can. Anythings possible in a comic book movie.
The killer technically could still be Flint Marko before his transformation, or the whole thing could be an illusion created by Mysterio or Chameleon.

Since Electro is confirmed (I think) the killer might turn out to be Electro before his transformation.

[Spiderdevil]

Originally Posted by OcStat

Peter let's the thug go and escape via the elevator. Next thing we see is Peter walking down some street that just so happens to be the same one his uncle was just shot on. He over hears the police radio and they let him run off, leaving his deceased uncle for the city coroner I guess. Uncle Ben didn't even know Peter wasn't going to the library, so its not like he was waiting to pick him up right out front the arena, and the burgler made a beeline for Ben's car. I got the impression Peter was walking for a while from the transition to that scene. It must have been sheer luck he wound up on the same block as Ben. Like I said, it is odd. Doesn't really detract from the movie, but it stood out to me at 14 despite the awe I was experiencing watching the closest thing to Spider-Man in real life. And it stands out more after TASM.

Nope
Ben said he will pick him back from the same street,it looked like the library and wrestling ring were situated close together,hence the robber tried to highjack a car just outside the ring and that was Uncle Ben waiting for Peter,Peter arrived a minute or two later

[Web face]

Originally Posted by The Slang

Oh yes they can. Anythings possible in a comic book movie.
The killer technically could still be Flint Marko before his transformation, or the whole thing could be an illusion created by Mysterio or Chameleon.

Since Electro is confirmed (I think) the killer might turn out to be Electro before his transformation.

... and then he transforms into an older black man?

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Web face

... and then he transforms into an older black man?

[Web face]

lol there seems to have been a misunderstanding though. Slang didn't realize that Jamie Foxx is black.

[amazingfantasy15]

Originally Posted by OcStat

Well that's definitely true.

Frankly I don't understand why either film changed that part. Something about a robber breaking and entering, confronting Uncle Ben and Aunt May in their personal space seems more threatening.

I recall thinking in the theater during Spider-Man that as neat as the whole wrestling scene to the chase and warehouse is, Uncle Ben being car jacked was odd.

Peter let's the thug go and escape via the elevator. Next thing we see is Peter walking down some street that just so happens to be the same one his uncle was just shot on. He over hears the police radio and they let him run off, leaving his deceased uncle for the city coroner I guess. Uncle Ben didn't even know Peter wasn't going to the library, so its not like he was waiting to pick him up right out front the arena, and the burgler made a beeline for Ben's car. I got the impression Peter was walking for a while from the transition to that scene. It must have been sheer luck he wound up on the same block as Ben. Like I said, it is odd. Doesn't really detract from the movie, but it stood out to me at 14 despite the awe I was experiencing watching the closest thing to Spider-Man in real life. And it stands out more after TASM.

People have already explained this scene.

Originally Posted by OcStat

I didn't expect TASM to retell the origin going into the movie but I am glad Webb decided to do so. Peter storms out of the house right after his argument with Uncle Ben,

This is part of the retelling of the origin that bugs me. Why wouldn't Peter tell Aunt May and Uncle Ben where he was in this new version. He wasn't out for personal gain or fame, he was going good, he was working at a science company. This didn't need to be hidden, especially since he wasn't using his powers, much less using them for personal gain, fame or greed. He was using his powers responsibly.

Originally Posted by OcStat

and the fateful moment this time goes down right in his neighbourhood. Uncle Ben puts 2 and 2 together when he sees the shady character running at him and a clerk yelling "Stop that guy!", and actually does what Peter did not, and attempts to stop the thief. And Peter, only being up the block, hears the shot. Even though it also deviates from the home robbery, it seemed like a much better angle on that series of events than Spider-Man.

Another part that bugs me, Peter butthurt over not having enough money to buy milk, in the original origin he's mad because he's getting screwed out of money that he earned, not because someone wouldn't give him a few cents. Also the promoter knows Spider-man could've easily taken the guy out, not so here. It's just Peter being a dick, not being out for number one like the comic says he is. I don't care if Uncle Ben gets killed down the street, in his car or at home, it has to be because Peter was being selfish and greedy and wanting a little bit of revenge. Not stopping it because someone wouldn't give him a few cents doesn't work in my eyes.

Originally Posted by OcStat

I was surprised they changed it again this time, especially with them sticking closer to certain parts of the comic books.

What stuck closer to the comics? Surely not the origin, almost everything about it was changed.

Originally Posted by OcStat

I think the home invasion and Ben facing him in their house, with Aunt May there to witness it would potentially (surely) make for a more compelling scenario than either movie.

It could, but all scenarios are more about Peter's reaction and finding out it was his failure to act due to greed and revenge that is the real weight of the scene.

Originally Posted by OcStat

Edit- you know, I guess it could fall under some film makers desire to create something fresh, that they know the majority of the people buying the tickets haven't already seen in the comic. Which I respect and appreciate when I buy my ticket. These are adaptations after all, a key thing some forget when watching comic book movies. But sometimes it is just change for changes sake.

This was totally change for changes sake and bad change at that.

Originally Posted by OcStat

I also love that the Star-Tattoo Man is out and about. No way Peter is sitting around listening to X&Y and browsing Bing when he knows that guy is free to threaten someone else. Will he resume his manhunt?
Can't wait to see the sequel.

He wouldn't be listening to X&Y or browsing Big anyway, the death of Ben due to his failure means the rest of his life is devoted to making up for that mistake.

[Web face]

Originally Posted by amazingfantasy15

This is part of the retelling of the origin that bugs me. Why wouldn't Peter tell Aunt May and Uncle Ben where he was in this new version. He wasn't out for personal gain or fame, he was going good, he was working at a science company. This didn't need to be hidden, especially since he wasn't using his powers, much less using them for personal gain, fame or greed. He was using his powers responsibly.

I assumed that saying that he was at Oscorp wasn't going to make it okay because he was supposed to be picking Aunt May up. Also, iirc, Uncle Ben doesn't really give Peter much of a chance to tell them where he was and what he was doing. Peter just said, "I got distracted" and then Uncle Ben started shouting at him (with good reason, of course)

Another part that bugs me, Peter butthurt over not having enough money to buy milk, in the original origin he's mad because he's getting screwed out of money that he earned, not because someone wouldn't give him a few cents. Also the promoter knows Spider-man could've easily taken the guy out, not so here. It's just Peter being a dick, not being out for number one like the comic says he is. I don't care if Uncle Ben gets killed down the street, in his car or at home, it has to be because Peter was being selfish and greedy and wanting a little bit of revenge. Not stopping it because someone wouldn't give him a few cents doesn't work in my eyes

Peter was being all those things. You don't think he was being selfish or greedy when he decided not to stop a thief over two cents? Peter is supposed to be extremely irresponsible during this scene. That is the entire point of it.

[SpiderMarvelite]

What would happen if, like, Peter had the 2 cents and paid, then saw the thug knock over the cash register or something and told him to stop, and he fired at Peter (obviously dodging it) and knocked him out....


So Ben wouldn't die, would that still make him Spider-Man as we still know?

[Nickoray]

Originally Posted by SpiderMarvelite

What would happen if, like, Peter had the 2 cents and paid, then saw the thug knock over the cash register or something and told him to stop, and he fired at Peter (obviously dodging it) and knocked him out....


So Ben wouldn't die, would that still make him Spider-Man as we still know?

Cool question.

I'll say this- Pretty sure the one thing that makes Peter realize his responsibility is the scene with Jack. If Peter had saved Uncle Ben, and STILL had the incident with Jack, maybe it might've not impact him as hard? Just my two cents. Throwing it out there.

[SteveRogers30]

I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this but I was watching the movie last night and i've noticed now that in the scene where Peter is walking on the streets looking for his uncle's killer ,you can see two guys and one of 'em is holding Ben's killer against the wall

[Picard Sisko]

Exactly when in the film? I can't find it.

[chaseter]

Originally Posted by Nickoray

Just my two cents. Throwing it out there.

Peter could have used those two cents to buy chocolate milk and save Ben's life.

[Human Torch]

Originally Posted by chaseter

Peter could have used those two cents to buy chocolate milk and save Ben's life.

I love your sig,BTW.

[SteveRogers30]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

Exactly when in the film? I can't find it.

Chapter 7 .

[AF3619]

Originally Posted by chaseter

Peter could have used those two cents to buy chocolate milk and save Ben's life.

[GENERAL RAAM582]

Originally Posted by chaseter

Peter could have used those two cents to buy chocolate milk and save Ben's life.

Hahaha, made me actually laugh out loud.

I hope the killer doesn't become a villain.

[TDK elbowstrike]

I've often wondered why Spidey never just stopped the burgalar, took his cut or what he was owed from the wrestling match and then gave the rest back to the promoter.

This is one reason I liked they way Bens killing went down in ASM. Made more sense.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by TDK elbowstrike

I've often wondered why Spidey never just stopped the burgalar, took his cut or what he was owed from the wrestling match and then gave the rest back to the promoter.

This is one reason I liked they way Bens killing went down in ASM. Made more sense.

wow good point... huh. you made me think

[TDK elbowstrike]

Thanks man.
I want Bens killer to be caught eventually too. Spidey needs to choose between justice and vengeance. Of course he'll choose the former, but now they have a chance to show it in a different way than in other various mediums. Hopefully this is resolved along with what really went down with Peters parents.