The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 142

[jmc]

This Riddler talk makes me wonder if there is a third film story whereby Bruce is challenged physically by Bane and mentally by Riddler.

[BatLobsterRises]

I would have loved to see a Nolan Riddler more than anyone. Seriously, I had the hugest fanboy boner for that to happen.

But I do get where Nolan is coming from. The Riddler is just not a homicidal character like The Joker is. So if you're looking for a way to somehow raise the stakes after The Joker (which honestly seemed like it would be impossible after I first saw TDK), Riddler is not the right guy. If they had made Riddler a character who set elaborate death traps and made him a mass killer...well, then that sorta would have been Joker-izing him.

I agree Agent Orange, the only way I could have seen him working in the third movie would be a more peripheral role as a P.I. looking to get to the truth about Dent/Batman. But they went a direction that rendered that unnecessary.

I still do lament never getting to see Nolan's take on the character though. Would have fit him like a glove.

[jmc]

Joker has always been more about terrorising Batman whilst Riddler is more about challenging him.

[BatLobsterRises]

I think perhaps The Riddler would make for a better foil in a series where Batman is really emphasized as the master detective he is in the comics. He'd be the ideal villain to use for detective/mystery Batman film in my mind. Hope we get to see it some day.

[TheBlur]

I always saw Coleman Reese aka Mr. Reese as Nolan's version of The Riddler.

[BlueLightning]

I just saw The Dark Knight Rises for the first time since theaters in Bluray, and...Oh man! This film is just damn good! I appreciate it even more. I didn't care for Foley sometime ago, but somehow Mathew Modine performance is just fine and the moment where Gordon is trying to recruit him made me feel for his character more. Also, I finally noticed that among Bruce's parents portrait and Rachel's there is Thomas Wayne burned stethoscope. Also some subtle moments, like in Gordon's eulogy where people finally come out of their houses, some Gothamites are hugging. And when the Father gathers the children to pray. Some beautiful little moments here and there. I must say, Christian Bale brought a great performance. Anne Hathaway kills it as Selina Kyle. Michael Caine is great as always, and this time his performance is a lot more poignant and filled with nuances. Gary Oldman is great too. The scene where the truth comes out and Blake confronts him is one of Gordon's finest moments. Joseph Gordon Levitt is great too, he brings a refreshing and familiar element to the films, and knowing the ending made me enjoy his arc a lot more.

That's all for now.

[AnneFan]

Originally Posted by The Joker

What a load of bull. One reason why Batman's rogues gallery is generally considered the best is the diversity of them. They are all so unique and psychologically different. They are as different from each other as Batman is from them.

Indeed. They all have their own goals and ways of going about things. Batman's definitely not lacking in this department.

Originally Posted by jmc

Joker has always been more about terrorising Batman whilst Riddler is more about challenging him.

Good way of putting it.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I think perhaps The Riddler would make for a better foil in a series where Batman is really emphasized as the master detective he is in the comics. He'd be the ideal villain to use for detective/mystery Batman film in my mind. Hope we get to see it some day.

Same. The only way any new iteration of Batman will be successful is if they completely remove themselves from the kind of story that Nolan was telling with his trilogy. Showcasing Batman as a detective, battling the Riddler in a game of wits is an excellent way to start. Leave LOS for this, move onto something entirely different.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by Travesty

The irony of saying that the Riddler is a "watered down Joker", and then making his version of Bane a lot like his Ra's is amusing to me.

There's this "little thing" this story develop , about symbols and legacy that fits Ra's , but dont fit characters like the Joker.

Your post certainly is amusing.

As for the Riddler , i dont agree with Nolan. But i definitely understand the impact he might have brought to this movies , would be watered down from Joker's action.

[Ryan]

I can understand both points of view on this thing and I'm not sure what side I'm on. I do know, that I love Nolan's interpretations of the rogues and would have loved to have seen him do the Riddler. With that being said, he really would have had to have taken the charcter in a different direction so that there wouldn't be any "Joker-lite" comparisons. Even though Bane is nothing like the Joker, people couldn't help but compare them to one another in terms of screen pressence.

It is interesting, as noted above, that Nolan didn't seem to high on any particular rogue...which again makes me think that the third film might have had the Joker in it or at one point, was thinking of having Two Face as the main baddie. In retrospect, Bane probably was Nolan's only choice or easiest choice to use, if he feels that most of rogues are watered down version's of the joker. Reinventing a character like the Riddler, so that he didn't come off like the Joker might have been too daunting a task for him to do.
Also its funny, as was noted above, that Bane to a degree, borrowed much of Ras philosophy as well. I don't know. I was never a fan of Bane in the comics but if Nolan made him cool in the movie then he could have done amazing things with all the rogues in my mind.

[Deserana]

Originally Posted by Travesty

The irony of saying that the Riddler is a "watered down Joker", and then making his version of Bane a lot like his Ra's is amusing to me.

This whole Bane is Ra's thing just flies over my head.

[MagnarTheGreat]

They could use the Riddler by not making him some sort of genocidal terrorist...they'd have to go smaller. So I can understand with the decree (or whatever you'd call it) in pre-production that they go bigger, more epic and bombastic, that the Riddler wouldn't necessarily fit with trying to cap off the trilogy. Nolan's Batman, at its core, is an anti-terrorist super-soldier that doesn't use a firearm.

[BatLobsterRises]

Yeah, Riddler could have fit perfectly into the world Nolan created...just not ideal for a concluding chapter villain.

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

That doc was really cool. I've watched it several times.

Same here, great stuff.

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I would have loved to see a Nolan Riddler more than anyone. Seriously, I had the hugest fanboy boner for that to happen.

But I do get where Nolan is coming from. The Riddler is just not a homicidal character like The Joker is. So if you're looking for a way to somehow raise the stakes after The Joker (which honestly seemed like it would be impossible after I first saw TDK), Riddler is not the right guy. If they had made Riddler a character who set elaborate death traps and made him a mass killer...well, then that sorta would have been Joker-izing him.

I agree Agent Orange, the only way I could have seen him working in the third movie would be a more peripheral role as a P.I. looking to get to the truth about Dent/Batman. But they went a direction that rendered that unnecessary.

I still do lament never getting to see Nolan's take on the character though. Would have fit him like a glove.

I think Riddler would've worked very well in a movie that focused on the GCPD chasing Batman and trying to discover who he is. But that's not the story Nolan and Co. wanted to tell.

[Hawkeye70000000]

I think that if the riddler had been in Nolan's mind to part to be part of the finally than it he would of been used to distract batman and the police from the real plan to destroy Gotham city. To help uncover the truth of Harvey dent final days and the use of joker, in a small role, but in the end the LoS would have had the time to setup it's plan to complete the goal that Ra's had set out to do in the first film.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Originally Posted by Travesty

The irony of saying that the Riddler is a "watered down Joker", and then making his version of Bane a lot like his Ra's is amusing to me.

Ra's had a goal in destroying a city that he felt was on the verge of an economical implosion due to it's decaying sense of justice. He was a terrorist for all intends and purposes. He believed what he was doing was the right thing to do.

Bane is a big, old monster wanting to humiliate Batman and destroy an entire city just to mentally torture Bruce Wayne, accompanied by Talia.

I really don't know where you're going with this, all due respect.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Yeah, Riddler could have fit perfectly into the world Nolan created...just not ideal for a concluding chapter villain.

Exactly. I can't say I agree with Nolan's comment, but ending this with Riddler would've been anti-climatic. We hadn't seen a physical threat to this Batman, so Bane, or someone as physical as Bane would've worked perfectly. It was either that, or Joker, since you can never go wrong with him.

[Hawkeye70000000]

If the riddler had played a part I the third film and not bane, does anyone think the batman series Nolan brought us would have ended there. I don't. I think Nolan would have thought about doing at least one more movie if the joker would have been a viable chance to be used again, but with Heath doing a marvelous job in tdk that replacing him would have been near impossible to achieve. At the very least, left the universe Nolan created and the Bruce Wayne character more open to be replaced by someone even if bale and/or Chris Nolan had left the project. Jonathan and goyer could have taken over after third film.

[kvz5]

You know how divisive a movie is when it appears at both the underrated and overrated section of a list:

Underrated (Cory Everett) - http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...-2012-20121217
Overrated (Katie Walsh)- http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...0121217?page=3

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by kvz5

You know how divisive a movie is when it appears at both the underrated and overrated section of a list:

Underrated (Cory Everett) - http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...-2012-20121217
Overrated (Katie Walsh)- http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...0121217?page=3

Cory: "to the (perceived) plot hole"
Katie: "The plot holes in this thing were also completely laughable from the jump"

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

This movie has certainly started the fire!

[TheGuy]

I love the bat boards.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by kvz5

You know how divisive a movie is when it appears at both the underrated and overrated section of a list:

Underrated (Cory Everett) - http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...-2012-20121217
Overrated (Katie Walsh)- http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...0121217?page=3

I honestly believe this is a great compliment to the movie. Everybody loves to talk about Rises . Its that stimulating

[Eklypze]

It really gets on my nerves that not a damn thing is mentioned of Joker in this movie. Every single villain in the series was at least mentioned but Joker? Oh that guy?!?!? We just threw him in Arkham and never thought about him ever again. Ugh

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Eklypze

It really gets on my nerves that not a damn thing is mentioned of Joker in this movie. Every single villain in the series was at least mentioned but Joker? Oh that guy?!?!? We just threw him in Arkham and never thought about him ever again. Ugh

I found it incredibly stupid as well... At the beginning of the damn movie, Blake and Gordon are talking on the rooftop.... Blake mentions EVERYTHING Batman did the night he disappeared... "took down 2 swat teams, killed dent blah blah blah"

would it have hurt to add "took down 2 swat teams and the Joker, blah blah"

It is strange that Batman would catch the Joker but randomly 'kill' Dent.